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HSE settles case with IMO and 6 NCHDs

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Comments

  • #62
    drzhivago
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 926 ✭✭✭drzhivago


    Pete4779 wrote: »
    It's cheaper to employee NCHDs than consultants, so you get what you pay for, regardless of the health outcome. Consultant salaries in Australia are around Aus$200k - comparable to Ireland.

    That is an interesting point and possibly not factually correct either ceteris paribus

    I had this discussion with a casualty consultant at one stage who felt that he was overpaid to be doing minor work and that the hospital were erring by having him do this

    I explained that he saw patients at least 6/1 when compared to an SHO

    He ordered far less tests

    He reduced average waiting time considerably with a few targetted hours of work there

    He also referred some patients directly to GP (who had not already been seen by their GP) without being seen in casualty this avoiding unnecessary testing etc

    Thus when all was considered he was actually cheaper that the SHOS because of the efficiency, when it was all explained he actually felt better


  • #63
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    Pete4779 wrote: »
    It's cheaper to employee NCHDs than consultants, so you get what you pay for, regardless of the health outcome. Consultant salaries in Australia are around Aus$200k - comparable to Ireland.

    No Most consultant salaries in Australia are about 400k now.


  • #64
    tallaght01
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,778 ✭✭✭tallaght01


    PoleStar wrote: »
    Drzhivago, everything you said, I know already.

    Yes I am taking a surgical slant as that is my specialty. To provide a service and maintain surgical training to the same degree just cannot be done.

    One alternative is to employ more doctors to ensure service provision. This will dilute surgical experience. This is what happened in the UK: surgical logbook reporting of operations has gone down by 33% since EWTD.

    Other alternative is to extend training. Im not sure if many people would want a higher training program of 9 years duration.

    Thankfully I just found out in Ireland that RCSI has recommended surgeons be given an opt out of 65 to 7o hours.


    That's all very well for people whose careers are their lives. I put in a lot of unpaid overtime, but I don't want to have to. If I want a family, or if I want to have a social life, I should have the right to have that as an option.

    Having worked in Oz and NZ, I don't agree for a second that working 80 hours a week gives you better training. I'm a bit anal about work, and would happily be paid for 60-70 hours a week, but I don't think I have the right to foist that on others.
    Traumadoc wrote: »
    In Australia Surgeons work shorter hours and training is quicker.
    I dont buy the idea that training is better here because we work longer hours.

    It is not training, it is providing a cheap service to the public patients.

    In the training hospital in Australia in I worked in there 16 consultants and 4 registrars on the orthopaedic service.

    That's spot on. Ozzie docs are just as good as their Irish/UK counterparts.

    Having said that, I worked in the UK when the EWTD came in. It was a joke. But it was a joke because our consultants wouldn't support us. We had a hospital meeting to make sure we were all happy with how it was being implement, and I was sick of my colleagues ending up in tears at the end of the day because of the sheer misery of their job (that they were laughably being paid for 45 hours a week to do).

    While people sat around afraid to speak, I told the assembled consultants and management that it was a joke. I told them we should be embarrassed that young girls cry because they have to go to work in our hospital.

    A message was conveyed to me that I would never work in that hospital again. I told them I wouldn't bring me mickey to that kip if it was hanging off anyway.

    Really poor from our consultants, though. I think if they support their juniors in Ireland, bu not demanding they stay back late every night, then it can work.


  • #65
    Traumadoc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,521 ✭✭✭Traumadoc


    tallaght01 wrote: »

    A message was conveyed to me that I would never work in that hospital again. I told them I wouldn't bring me mickey to that kip if it was hanging off anyway.

    LOL:D


  • #66
    drzhivago
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 926 ✭✭✭drzhivago


    tallaght01 wrote: »

    Really poor from our consultants, though. I think if they support their juniors in Ireland, bu not demanding they stay back late every night, then it can work.

    It does need consultant support

    RCSI has come out to say they want a derogation, its far too late for that stuff

    They need to look at irish solutions to irish problems and send a delegation to the IMO and HSE who are negotiating this stuff now

    Final nail in coffin from EU commission yesterday who said they have no agreement between groups at their level for any changes or row back on directive in future so they will now be looking at the countries which have not implemented it and acting accordingly

    Bye Bye bonus Mr McGrath


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  • #67
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    drzhivago wrote: »
    Bye Bye bonus Mr McGrath

    unfortunately, i dont think this is likely.

    i'm sure he'll collect his bonus and keep his job.


  • #68
    drzhivago
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 926 ✭✭✭drzhivago


    sam34 wrote: »
    unfortunately, i dont think this is likely.

    i'm sure he'll collect his bonus and keep his job.

    we can live in hope


  • #69
    drzhivago
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 926 ✭✭✭drzhivago


    sam34 wrote: »
    unfortunately, i dont think this is likely.

    i'm sure he'll collect his bonus and keep his job.

    Got an email from IMO yesterday

    No solution from the LRC after 2 weeks of negotiations there

    As you will be aware the recent High Court Settlement Agreement reached between the IMO and the HSE allowed for the commencement of negotiations between the parties on the application of working time legislation to NCHDs. Negotiations commenced on Tuesday 12th May 2009 under the auspices of the Labour Relations Commission.

    At the conclusion of the talks this afternoon no agreement has been reached between the IMO and the HSE and, as per the terms of the Settlement Agreement, the matter has now been referred to the Labour Court for adjudication.

    It is hoped that a Labour Court Hearing will be scheduled for a date in the coming days. The IMO will keep NCHDs updated with any further information as it becomes available.

    Looks ominous now

    Labour Court have no knowledge of hospital service delivery or NCHD training

    They do know a lot about salaries and changing conditions of work but in such a big issue they are likely to go down the middle and spilt everything 50/50 or else side with the HSE because there isnt an individual NCHD who will be the sorry face losing their earnings in the room

    We all need to watch out now
    I have heard from friends they are getting letters of appointment for July but no contracts, every other year people were sent 5-6 page contracts with a letter saying sign in a week or else we refer you to medical council

    Now they are hedging their bets

    If people do get contracts they should send them in to the IMO for review

    It looks like the end is nigh and this may be taken up the wrong way but it will spell the end of a lot of the smaller hospitals if they get this wrong


  • #70
    Amnesiac_ie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭Amnesiac_ie


    I got an interesting letter from one of the hospitals I will be working in come July today. It's demandinf the usual occ health/garda clearance nonsense but says a contract won't be sent out until they have one which is EWTD compliant. Attached is a copy of the High Court ruling which states contracts for July will not be different to current NCHD contracts.

    But then again, said hospital also thinks that my training scheme is run by a different college...


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