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The Great Ida Debate

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1356

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    #62
    KarenWallace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭KarenWallace


    Remember this

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8014598.stm

    So you lot are half cow and half ape.

    The degradation of human life continues and you lot eat it all up like clowns. Litte insight "Do not believe everything you are told".


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    #63
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    KarenWallace wrote: »
    Remember this

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8014598.stm

    So you lot are half cow and half ape.

    The degradation of human life continues and you lot eat it all up like clowns. Litte insight "Do not believe everything you are told".
    what took you so long to get here?! tough commute from imaginationland?


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    #64
    Elliemental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Elliemental


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    IIRC, Some of the church believe evolution was crafted by god so that reduces your post to just the information that your shoulders are hairy.


    Oh yeah, seriously though, If we evolved from apes why are there still Apes walking around and not evolving?


    A human is to an Ape, what a Horse is to a Zebra. Two breeds of the same species, if you like. Within our separate species we still flourish, while maintaining our unique features. Sorry, i`ve worded this badly!:(

    Oh and evolution is very gradual, and continuos. So really, you`re not going to notice it happening throughout the day now, are you!


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    #65
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    KarenWallace wrote: »



    Litte insight "Do not believe everything you are told".

    Wouldn't this insight stop there being so many creationists? :p


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    #66
    KarenWallace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭KarenWallace


    Nerin wrote: »
    Wouldn't this insight stop there being so many creationists? :p

    :rolleyes:

    What are you one of these "educated" new Ireland types?

    Think you know it all?

    I know an IT "guy". Thought he was the "go to guy" at his work. Was the smuggest man on the planet, earning €60,000 a year for doing f'uck all. Got laid off last week. Since then has has stopped talking rubbish like, "how is your favourite superhero?".


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    #67
    Mr. Gruff
    Registered Users Posts: 76 ✭✭Mr. Gruff


    Elliemental wrote: »
    A human is to an Ape, what a Horse is to a Zebra. Two breeds of the same species, if you like.

    Nope, that would mean that if I went out and bonked an orangutan, the offspring would be fertile and able to reproduce with its weird siblings.
    We're actually different species of the same family, Hominidae.
    Its probably* the same for zebras and horses and they're part of a equine family.

    *Don't hold me to this part


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    #68
    Nerin
    Registered Users Posts: 10,523 ✭✭✭✭Nerin


    KarenWallace wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    What are you one of these "educated" new Ireland types?

    Think you know it all?

    I know an IT "guy". Thought he was the "go to guy" at his work. Was the smuggest man on the planet, earning €60,000 a year for doing f'uck all. Got laid off last week. Since then has has stopped talking rubbish like, "how is your favourite superhero?".

    Lmao.

    Batman is doing well,thanks for asking how he is.


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    #69
    grizzly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭grizzly


    KarenWallace wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    What are you one of these "educated" new Ireland types?

    Think you know it all?

    I know an IT "guy". Thought he was the "go to guy" at his work. Was the smuggest man on the planet, earning €60,000 a year for doing f'uck all. Got laid off last week. Since then has has stopped talking rubbish like, "how is your favourite superhero?".

    o k *backs away from the internet*


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    #70
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    KarenWallace wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    What are you one of these "educated" new Ireland types?

    Think you know it all?

    I know an IT "guy". Thought he was the "go to guy" at his work. Was the smuggest man on the planet, earning €60,000 a year for doing f'uck all. Got laid off last week. Since then has has stopped talking rubbish like, "how is your favourite superhero?".

    And that means we're not related to apes, why?


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    #71
    Elliemental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 924 ✭✭✭Elliemental


    Mr. Gruff wrote: »
    Nope, that would mean that if I went out and bonked an orangutan, the offspring would be fertile and able to reproduce with its weird siblings.
    We're actually different species of the same family, Hominidae.
    Its probably* the same for zebras and horses and they're part of a equine family.

    *Don't hold me to this part


    Ofcourse that`s not what I`m saying, i`m sorry that was a badly worded post. But Humans are in that same family of animals, and I used horse/zebra as just an example of that.


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    #72
    Milky Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭Milky Moo


    How is this not bigger news?
    I am not well learned on the matter.

    I know the basics and I guess I would have fallen into the category that believed the romanticised notion,as it has been described here, of the missing link finally sealing evolution as indisputable fact.
    Surely there should be great ado about the publication of this find?

    I probably wouldn't have heard about this if I hadn't been to AH.


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    #73
    danh789
    Closed Accounts Posts: 414 ✭✭danh789


    So tell me this, why aren't we evolving anymore?

    Plus why say this proves there is no God? If humans and apes did have a common ancestor who to say it wasn't Adam and Eve.


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    #74
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    KarenWallace wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    What are you one of these "educated" new Ireland types?

    Think you know it all?

    I know an IT "guy". Thought he was the "go to guy" at his work. Was the smuggest man on the planet, earning €60,000 a year for doing f'uck all. Got laid off last week. Since then has has stopped talking rubbish like, "how is your favourite superhero?".
    you mean he wasnt actually a guy?

    so a guy lost his job in a recession. i fail to see the (missing) link here.


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    #75
    zuroph
    Registered Users Posts: 11,097 ✭✭✭✭zuroph


    danh789 wrote: »
    So tell me this, why aren't we evolving anymore?
    uh, we are? we're losing toes and our fingers are growing.
    danh789 wrote: »
    Plus why say this proves there is no God? If humans and apes did have a common ancestor who to say it wasn't Adam and Eve.
    also, i believe people said this disproves creationism, not "god". Very different argument.


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    #76
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Mr Lahey wrote: »
    Breaking news on sky news that the missing link has been found
    and that there is little or no doubt that we are descended from apes.
    Interesting to see what the churches line on this will be.
    No wonder my shoulders are so damn hairy.

    You know what lines the Christian community can possibly take on this:

    1) Embrace it. Evolution as a part of God's work in creation.
    2) Indifference. Decree it irrelevant. None the less God was behind it.
    3) Deny it. Evolution is a lie. God created the world in 7 days.

    danh789: The Bible clearly says that Adam is human. Infact the word "adam" in Biblical Hebrew means mankind.


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    #77
    danh789
    Closed Accounts Posts: 414 ✭✭danh789


    zuroph wrote: »
    i believe people said this disproves creationism

    Again how exactly does it?


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    #78
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    danh789 wrote: »
    Again how exactly does it?

    Well I suppose if they can prove that we did evolve from other animals then it would disprove it.

    Not that I'm saying it does.

    I wouldn't dare question the finest minds of the 14th century modern world who have such solid grounds to base their theory of creationism on.


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    #79
    philologos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Creationism doesn't just refer to Young Earth Creationism. Old Earth Creationism is also held by many Christians (which includes theistic evolution). If you refute Young Earth Creationism you don't really refute 1) the Creation, or 2) Christianity you just send one particular form of argumentation (in this case YEC) to it's grave.

    In reality both you and I know that Young Earth Creationism won't be sent to it's grave. It will be still propogated around the US South, and even here in Ireland.


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    #80
    WindSock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,239 ✭✭✭✭WindSock


    Galvasean wrote: »
    The discovery of a 47 million year old lemur like primate in Germany
    has been heralded as a possible ancestor of modern monkeys and apes (that includes humans BTW).


    "Who, me?"

    - and special thanks to the user pts who alerted me to this article.

    The link is missing :D


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    #81
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    BlitzKrieg wrote: »
    Which probably explains why I find *some* (had this argument before by mistake) athesiests annoying who use evolution as their proof and I have a better understanding of it then them and I wont go beyond considering myself Agnostic.

    There is no proof that god does not exist and I'm saying this as an atheist. I'm an atheist only insofar as there is no evidence that god does exist and so I see no reason to believe that he does. Evolution only invalidates the story of creation as written in the old testament.

    TBH the only difference between your agnosticism and my atheism is how we define the terms. I'm as much of an agnostic as you and apparently you're as much an atheist as me.


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    #82
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    danh789 wrote: »
    Again how exactly does it?

    There's no need to "disprove" creationism as there is simply no evidence for it in the first place.


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    #83
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Milky Moo wrote: »
    How is this not bigger news?

    Because it's a Science Story that doesn't make you want to cack your pants and therefore doesn't sell as many newspapers.

    :(


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    #84
    darjeeling
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭darjeeling


    This piece from the Guardian outlines what is evolutionarily significant about the new fossil and cuts through some of the hype.
    James Randerson, The Guardian wrote:
    As one of the most significant primate fossil finds ever made, Ida will be hailed by some as "the missing link" in our evolutionary history. But is that really true? Well, yes and no.

    The phrase usually refers to the creature that links us to the apes, in particular the common ancestor of chimpanzees and ourselves. At 47m years old, Ida – or Darwinius masillae, to use her formal name – is much more ancient than that. But she is undoubtedly a very significant link in the primate lineage and the evidence from her extraordinarily well-preserved skeleton points to her being a very early member of our own primate line.

    The fossil evidence of primate evolutionary history is sparsely populated – more missing than link. So almost any major primate fossil at a significant point in our ancestral line could be referred to by that over-used phrase.

    [...]

    Jørn Hurum, at the University of Oslo, the scientist who assembled the international team of researchers to study Ida is relaxed about using the phrase. [...]
    However, in the paper published in PLoS ONE from the Public Library of Science on the fossil he is more circumspect. "Darwinius masillae is important in being exceptionally well-preserved and providing a much more complete understanding of the paleobiology of an Eocene primate than was available in the past," the authors wrote.

    "[The species] could represent a stem group from which later anthropoid primates evolved [the line leading to humans], but we are not advocating this here."

    The paper's scientific reviewers asked that they tone down their original claims that the fossil was on the human evolutionary line.

    [...]

    In another piece (here), Randerson talks about the other reasons why this is significant - mainly the remarkable preservation. The fossil is 95% complete, unlike most such fossils. The details include evidence of the animal's hair, identifiable stomach contents, a fractured and partially healed wrist, and the presence of all the animal's baby teeth, with the adult teeth forming behind them.

    [Edit:]There's actually loads on the Guardian website on this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/fossil-ida

    They have the story of the murky history of the fossil, and the deal in a Hamburg vodka bar that brought it into the public domain (here).

    This piece by Adam Rutherford is good on the media buzz that accompanied the story.


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    #85
    tatabubbly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭tatabubbly


    Now that is deadly...


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    #86
    hal9000
    Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭hal9000


    great!! I can finally say "get your stinkin hands off me you damn dirty APE" to anybody including the pope!


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    #87
    darjeeling
    Registered Users Posts: 962 ✭✭✭darjeeling


    Nature also has a piece on its website (here).

    It says (my edits):
    Lucas Laursen, Nature wrote:

    The relationship of the new species, Darwinius masillae, to other early primates has sparked an academic controversy, a press conference earlier today at the American Museum of Natural History and a television documentary to air next week.

    The lack of certain key features ally the 47-million-year-old Darwinius with early Haplorhines, the ancestors of anthropoids such as monkeys, apes and humans, write the authors. However, in the same paragraph they write, "We do not interpret Darwinius as anthropoid."

    This nuance was missing from an announcement last week made in advance of the study's formal publication, which declared in block capitals that the find would "change everything".

    [...]

    Family tree

    The fossil is "mainly notable for its completeness", says Christopher Beard, curator of the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, who was not involved in the study. [...] But the authors' interpretation of the species as a Haplorhine ancestor is less likely to meet with wide acceptance, he says. "It's very easy to allocate this fossil to the adapiform group", which includes ancestors to modern lemurs and lorises, Beard says.

    [...]

    "That's the fundamental scientific issue that I suppose will have to be hashed out in the months ahead as more people get access to the specimen," Beard says.


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    #88
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Just a sec, here.

    Ida seems to be the missing link between monkeys and apes.

    http://www.revealingthelink.com/

    I thought we already had links between humans and apes alright.

    So really this discovery is extending back human evolution past apes?


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    #89
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    danh789 wrote: »

    Plus why say this proves there is no God?

    Well, I brought up the question of Creationism- you can still believe in God and not in Creationism.


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    #90
    token56
    Registered Users Posts: 2,601 ✭✭✭token56


    super_furry wrote: »
    Exactly. Think of apes as you retard cousins from Cavan.

    now now, dont be insulting the apes


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    #91
    ART6
    Registered Users Posts: 2,632 ✭✭✭ART6


    When I was at school I was told that God created man in his own image. So, if Adam was an ape ........??

    Does this mean that when I die and ascent the golden staircase I am going to be met by a feckin' great hairy gorilla?


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