'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

markopantelic · 15-05-2009 03:56PM

But freedom of people is one of the main princples of the European Union. And anyway many Poles are returning home, so I think its too late anyway.

Tar.Aldarion · 15-05-2009 03:57PM

Des I'll answer your question if I feel like it.
Don't hold your your breath.

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 03:58PM

markopantelic wrote: »

But freedom of people is one of the main princples of the European Union. And anyway many Poles are returning home, so I think its too late anyway.

The VAST majority of EU Countries have restrictions in place, the very same restrictions proposed by the Libertas man.

These restrictions are allowed under EU Law, Ireland chose not to use the restrictions, but we ARE allowed to impose them at any time.

This is what the Libertas man has said, and anyone who agrees with him has been branded an idiot by others on this thread, posters, moderators and Admin alike.

TheBlock · 15-05-2009 03:59PM

Des wrote: »

Ireland made a decision six years ago, so now we are stuck with it?

Really?

Even though the EU Rules allow us to change it?

Really?

Get real here. It suited us at the time, it doesn't any more, so why not change it?

Where did I say that? Until we know the full facts regarding the net amount of Immigrants from the accesion countries I think this is bull****. So 9900 new one s have comme in the past 4 months how many have left??

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 03:59PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Des I'll answer your question if I feel like it.
Don't hold your your breath.

Way to drop a bomb, set your agenda then nor deal with the fallout.

Go you.

renraw · 15-05-2009 04:00PM

Its about time an irish politician said what's on most peoples minds. The country cannot sustain any further influx of foreign nationals, especially when there are no jobs! I've been paying insurance and tax all my working like and people who come into the country just to take advantage of a generous welfare system is just unacceptable.

And before anybody jumps to their high moral ground. I worked in england for a number of years and never had to seek benefit. The english people are more than welcome in this country as they welcomed me and many others to their shores. A friend of mine moved to Poland with his Polish girlfriend and came back after 2 months as he couldn't deal with the rather negative reception (I would like to put it more strongly) he received from the locals.

I say restrict the borders for mainland Europe and give the country a chance to get back to some form of recovery. Carrying out such a request is neither racist nor discriminatory but simple logic based on a country's survival.

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 04:02PM

renraw wrote: »

Its about time an irish politician said what's on most peoples minds. The country cannot sustain any further influx of foreign nationals, especially when there are no jobs! I've been paying insurance and tax all my working like and people who come into the country just to take advantage of a generous welfare system is just unacceptable.

And before anybody jumps to their high moral ground. I worked in england for a number of years and never had to seek benefit. The english people are more than welcome in this country as they welcomed me and many others to their shores. A friend of mine moved to Poland with his Polish girlfriend and came back after 2 months as he couldn't deal with the rather negative reception (I would like to put it more strongly) he received from the locals.

I say restrict the borders for mainland Europe and give the country a chance to get back to some form of recovery. Carrying out such a request is neither racist nor discriminatory but simple logic based on a country's survival.

Excellent post, but you will be branded a racist and an idiot for holding that viewpoint.

Collect your Swastika on your way to Stormfront :rolleyes:

dr.bollocko · 15-05-2009 04:02PM

Des wrote: »

What do you think of the countries who already practice the restrictions on immigration proposed for Ireland by Libertas now?

A straight answer will do fine.

For that matter, can anyone opposing this proposal answer that?

I'm still waiting.

Define what they're proposing. How they set about acheiving it.
Cos they certainly haven't.
You cant argue with a house of cards. You can only wait for it to crumble and hope it happens soon.

stakey · 15-05-2009 04:05PM

renraw wrote: »

I say restrict the borders for mainland Europe and give the country a chance to get back to some form of recovery. Carrying out such a request is neither racist nor discriminatory but simple logic based on a country's survival.

Do we lock the gates from the inside too? No one allowed out! There's a good number of people definitely planning on leaving your basketcase workers paradise, so you might need those extra hands after all!

Horsefumbler · 15-05-2009 04:05PM

Des wrote: »

I hate these lefty-liberal ****.

How many times have you uttered those words in your life?

please die

and I'm not even a lefty

markopantelic · 15-05-2009 04:06PM

renraw wrote: »

Its about time an irish politician said what's on most peoples minds. The country cannot sustain any further influx of foreign nationals, especially when there are no jobs! I've been paying insurance and tax all my working like and people who come into the country just to take advantage of a generous welfare system is just unacceptable.

And before anybody jumps to their high moral ground. I worked in england for a number of years and never had to seek benefit. The english people are more than welcome in this country as they welcomed me and many others to their shores. A friend of mine moved to Poland with his Polish girlfriend and came back after 2 months as he couldn't deal with the rather negative reception (I would like to put it more strongly) he received from the locals.

I say restrict the borders for mainland Europe and give the country a chance to get back to some form of recovery. Carrying out such a request is neither racist nor discriminatory but simple logic based on a country's survival.

That is idiotic.

If you adopt that mentality then I can easily bring up our history of emmigration and that we should allow many struggling Africans in.

Irelands immigration rates outside EU aren't that big at all.

dr.bollocko · 15-05-2009 04:06PM

Horsefumbler wrote: »

How many times have you uttered those words in your life?

please die

and I'm not even a lefty

Banned.

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 04:06PM

dr.bollocko wrote: »

Define what they're proposing. How they set about acheiving it.
Cos they certainly haven't.

OK, I would propose setting the same restrictions that we should have set in 2003, but didn't because we needed the workers back then.

We don't need them any more, so we should restrict their immigration.

It's that simple.

It is what I garnered from their proposal.

If you go back to my very first post in this thread, I said I would never vote Libertas, and that still stands.

But I do feel that the man has an extremely valid viewpoint, and the majority of people who also hold it are afraid to express it for fear of being branded a racist, Stormfronter or an idiot, as has happened in this thread.

I'm not a racist, but I am a Nationalist (not in the Sinn Fein sense).

Irish Jobs for Irish People, if we need immigration again at a later date, then we can start to lift the restrictions again.

snubbleste · 15-05-2009 04:09PM

The politicians who allowed unrestricted access to the Accession 10 in 2004 denied there would be a significant flow of migrants. Some quotes are

It is a disgraceful xenophobic myth that there will be a threat of a flood of migrant workers coming to Ireland. A wilful effort has been made by the National Platform and the No to Nice Campaign organisation to raise the spectre of a wave of immigrants coming to our shores. This is the worst and most unworthy objection I have heard to the Nice treaty; it is most "un-Irish" and speaks volumes about the level at which some are willing to conduct political debate. It is a shameful and distasteful piece of propaganda.
Xenophobic fears have been raised before. When Ireland was joining the EEC in 1973, the same National Platform warned of foreign skilled workers taking Irish jobs. False fears of mass movements of people at the time of previous enlargements were also raised, but, as we know from the Spanish and Portuguese enlargement, these fears did not materialise. There is no credible reason to believe enlargement will be accompanied by large movements of people. All the evidence points in the opposite direction. Dick Roche, Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, 12th September 2002

"I estimate that fewer than 2,000 will choose our distant shores each year". P. De Rossa, I.T. Letters, 20/8/2002

"It is a deliberate misrepresentation to suggest that tens of thousands will suddenly descend en masse on Ireland."Proinsias De Rossa, I.T. Letters, 28/8/2002

Efforts have been made to forment fears that migrants from the new member states could flock to Ireland. This is not only unpleasant but plainly wrong.... Ireland is already benefiting from the skills and energy of workers from the applicant states, about 7,000 of whom received work permits last year. There is no basis whatever for expecting a huge upsurge in these numbers. Brian Cowen, Sunday Business Post, 7/7/2000

smartassname101 · 15-05-2009 04:09PM

It has nothing got to do with "playing the race card". The statement that guy said says a lot about what`s wrong with Irish politics today. It`s common sense to try and regulate the amount of people that come here when we can`t find employment for whats here. We are struggling to pay social welfare to the 300,000 that are unemployed here already besides handing out more PPS numbers. "playing the race card"...........BULLS**T !!

Venom · 15-05-2009 04:10PM

While I agree that the Libertas party are in bed with some very dodgy groups in Europe I do feel that what Raymond O'Malley suggested is the right move for the country at this point in time.

Opening our borders wide to one and all was a huge mistake and one that will take Ireland a long time to recover from. An approach along the lines of how Canada, Austraila and the US opererate there emmigration laws would of been a much better options for a small country like Ireland with limited resources.

seamus · 15-05-2009 04:11PM

Des wrote: »

Yep.

Typical Liberal-Leftist attitude.

"Anyone with Conservative/Right views is an idiot"

Well screw you Liberal-Leftists, it is your politics that re-elects Fianna Fail and got us into this mess in the first place, you idiots.

Actually I was referring to the Anto-down-the-dole-queue type who spends his life running scams, bitching about "dem bleedin scumbag gards", and claiming that he can't get a job because of "all dem bleedin nig-nogs", while he scratches his arse all day, drinks his life away and smokes cigarettes his mate robbed from a truck on the continent. You think he's a conservative/rightist?

Libertas are effectively blaming immigration for the recession and yet haven't provided a single shred of evidence to show that it has any effect whatsoever. Immigrants are an easy target because when things go down the pan, humans instinctively blame outsiders for their misfortune by putting a curse on them or "TERKIN UR JARBS!" and seek to hunt them out. It's been happening for millennia and Libertas don't even have to do a single tap of research for people to listen to what they're saying.

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 04:11PM

Venom you big racist.

markopantelic · 15-05-2009 04:13PM

Ok then but I hope then that any British people in jobs are fired at the expense of us Irish.

walshb · 15-05-2009 04:14PM

Last night, his constituency rival, Fine Gael senator John Paul Phelan, accused Mr O'Malley of "playing the race card".

Pot, Kettle?;)

renraw · 15-05-2009 04:17PM

By All accounts, then maybe I am an idiot and in that case sir I have said my piece and will stand by whatever I say. Ireland as a nation has changed for the worst and as stated by several, as soon as the ship starts sinking, what do the foreign nationals do? They leave! Yet we have to stay here and pick up things like higher rates of taxes, levies etc...

I fortunately, am a true die hard and will see this recession through whilst most who benefitted from it have left our shores. So sir, If I am an idiot then that is the case, if branded that for saying what is in effect, true..then I shall burden that label. I will continue to work and pay my taxes and suffer the excrutiating pain of 45% of my salary going to the goevernement coffers. What country is the only one on Europe to experience growth of 6%? What group of foreign nationals sent 1.8 billion$ back home in 2007? What country has attracted foreign investment, destined for Irish shores? (through rather immoral ways). Ireland needs to survive this and not be burdened with debt to last the next 20 years.

Ireland as a nation, has earned many lessons and realise who has stood by the country and who will stick out this recession and hopefully, the Governement will realise in its haste to be "popular" that it can now become a more strict nation and control the borders.

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 04:18PM

seamus wrote: »

Actually I was referring to the Anto-down-the-dole-queue type who spends his life running scams, bitching about "dem bleedin scumbag gards", and claiming that he can't get a job because of "all dem bleedin nig-nogs", while he scratches his arse all day, drinks his life away and smokes cigarettes his mate robbed from a truck on the continent. You think he's a conservative/rightist?

You did not make that clear at all, so forgive me if I took you up wrong, but then...

seamus wrote: »

"TERKIN UR JARBS!"

:rolleyes:

Very good, you watch Southpark.

We. Get. It.

Look, I'm not some toothless hick from Roscommon, or some Anto-down-the-dole-office.

I am a victim of this recession. I was made redundant, I found a new job though. I never wanted our borders opened as wide as they were, and while the over-reliance on the Property Bubble was the main factor in this world recession, I do think that this free-border policy had it's part to play.

Now, you can call me all the names under the sun, but I firmly agree with what this Libertas dude is saying in this instance.

And according to the poll on this thread, I am in the majority.

A silent, fearful majority, in my opinion.

Silent for fear of being branded racists, because that is what happened to O'Malley as soon as he said it. This PC Do-Gooder brigade sicken me.

They are the same people who take pity on your Anto you know.

dsmythy · 15-05-2009 04:21PM

walshb wrote: »

Last night, his constituency rival, Fine Gael senator John Paul Phelan, accused Mr O'Malley of "playing the race card".

Pot, Kettle?;)

White guys preventing other white guys from coming to their country. Yeah er, racism right there...

People who accuse people of playing the race card are themselves playing the race card.

Non-story anyway. This one person just expressed an opinion on something he would like to see. Unless he's actually being proper legit racist then he's allowed his opinion.

greendom · 15-05-2009 04:21PM

At least this puts to rest the claim that Libertas are "pro-Europe". This will break the freedom of movement rule within Europe and shows Libertas for what they are. Anti-European and pro-isolationist.

Venom · 15-05-2009 04:22PM

Des wrote: »

Venom you big racist.

Im not a racist, I hate everyone equally :cool:

Also, get a job hippy

markopantelic · 15-05-2009 04:22PM

So what about all the thousands of British that live here? They greatly outweight almost all minorities?

It can't be relative, one rule must apply to all.

stakey · 15-05-2009 04:23PM

renraw wrote: »

They leave! Yet we have to stay here and pick up things like higher rates of taxes, levies etc...

Ah come on! The reason you're paying extra levies and taxes is because the government decided it was making a ****load of cash off of a bloated property market and decided to remove all sane regulation of that sector.

At the same time, the government enriched everyone of its friends in a big orgy of **** YOU TAXPAYER. Every element of this society linked to ZanuFF got their handout, the unions, civil service, developers, bankers, everyone except the ordinary tax payer.

We're now stuck with mounting debts of the main banks, a property market in free fall, a government with no clue on how to actually regulate and your blaming migrant workers?

Have you been living under a rock?

Did migrant workers build up a huge amount of personal debt? Did migrant workers buy an extra investment property and holiday home? Did migrant workers buy the latest BMW to keep up with the joneses?

No, they came here, they worked here, they paid their taxes... they didn't **** you over, Fianna Fail did!

In fact, migrant workers probably served you in your local shop because the Joneses brat was off in Australia pissing mammy and daddy's money down the drain instead of taking up a summer job.

thelordofcheese · 15-05-2009 04:24PM

Des wrote: »

I'm using it quite properly.

No, you're using it as a pejorative.
It makes you no better than people who call this fluffy piece of populist nonsense "racist".

_blank_ · 15-05-2009 04:24PM

markopantelic wrote: »

So what about all the thousands of British that live here? They greatly outweight almost all minorities?

It can't be relative, one rule must apply to all.

Why must "one rule apply to all"? It doesn't in the majority of the other EU States.

***********************************
I saw you playing for Hertha when I was in Berlin last weekend

TheBlock · 15-05-2009 04:25PM

Des wrote: »

You did not make that clear at all, so forgive me if I took you up wrong, but then...

:rolleyes:

Very good, you watch Southpark.

We. Get. It.

Look, I'm not some toothless hick from Roscommon, or some Anto-down-the-dole-office.

I am a victim of this recession. I was made redundant, I found a new job though. I never wanted our borders opened as wide as they were, and while the over-reliance on the Property Bubble was the main factor in this world recession, I do think that this free-border policy had it's part to play.

Now, you can call me all the names under the sun, but I firmly agree with what this Libertas dude is saying in this instance.

And according to the poll on this thread, I am in the majority.

A silent, fearful majority, in my opinion.

Silent for fear of being branded racists, because that is what happened to O'Malley as soon as he said it. This PC Do-Gooder brigade sicken me.

They are the same people who take pity on your Anto you know.

This post is complete crap. (You are allowed do that aren't attack the post).

I do not take pity on Anto, I think you'll find he'll be one of the guys voting with you on this boards poll (important to highlight that this is a borads poll and one in after hours at that).

Irish Jobs for Irish People you said earlier...I seem to remember a british political party with a similar slogan. British Jobs for British People.

'Libertas call to close borders sparks race row'

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