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Living off Subbing Hours while doing PGDE ???

  • 09-05-2009 02:18PM
    #1
    Shadow Lady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭


    Yet again, here I am and very worried. Thank you to everybody who replied with their advice and comments to my other questions. Much appreciated.

    I am commencing the PGDE with UCD in August and I have arranged my school which is great. However, as I have already undertaken a Masters degree, I will have to pay fees and won't be entitled to my grant, which I have been entitled to up to now, throughout my education, otherwise I wouldn't be where I am today.

    My school has mentioned to me that they would require me to do substitute hours for them, which I would be paid for. Obviously, I will be delighted to do as many of them as is possible. However, I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what the "usual" amount of subbing hours one would get per week? I understand it is very difficult to give an exact or even near exact number for this but any ideas would be welcome.

    The real question concerns the fact that ideally I would like to move to Dublin for the academic year and I'm trying to figure out if I would be able to afford it. I am currently completing my thesis so will only be available for summer work for the guts of 2 months, and that's IF I get a job. I know it will sound like a ridiculous idea for me to move to Dublin with this situation, but living at home with my parents is literally driving me INSANE.

    Therefore, just wondering if it would be possible to afford to live on substitute hours (are they regular or sporadic? are you more or less guaranteed to get a few a week or no? how much does it pay?) and a small amount of savings.

    I know all this may seem rather shallow (sorry if it does, I don't mean it to) and money driven, but I genuinely have to think of the practicalities of things.

    Thanks again


Comments

  • #2
    sitstill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    Shadow Lady wrote: »
    Yet again, here I am and very worried. Thank you to everybody who replied with their advice and comments to my other questions. Much appreciated.

    I am commencing the PGDE with UCD in August and I have arranged my school which is great. However, as I have already undertaken a Masters degree, I will have to pay fees and won't be entitled to my grant, which I have been entitled to up to now, throughout my education, otherwise I wouldn't be where I am today.

    My school has mentioned to me that they would require me to do substitute hours for them, which I would be paid for. Obviously, I will be delighted to do as many of them as is possible. However, I was just wondering if anyone could tell me what the "usual" amount of subbing hours one would get per week? I understand it is very difficult to give an exact or even near exact number for this but any ideas would be welcome.

    The real question concerns the fact that ideally I would like to move to Dublin for the academic year and I'm trying to figure out if I would be able to afford it. I am currently completing my thesis so will only be available for summer work for the guts of 2 months, and that's IF I get a job. I know it will sound like a ridiculous idea for me to move to Dublin with this situation, but living at home with my parents is literally driving me INSANE.

    Therefore, just wondering if it would be possible to afford to live on substitute hours (are they regular or sporadic? are you more or less guaranteed to get a few a week or no? how much does it pay?) and a small amount of savings.

    I know all this may seem rather shallow (sorry if it does, I don't mean it to) and money driven, but I genuinely have to think of the practicalities of things.

    Thanks again


    I was in exactly the same situation as you when I did the dip. I handed in my thesis about 2 weeks before the dip started and I had no grant so had to pay full fees (which I'm still paying back)

    To be honest, I wouldn't depend on subbing hours.

    While most schools will throw hours your way that they can't give to part time teachers due to time tabling or whatever, don't count on it.

    There was a couple of weeks when I got maybe E300 but most weeks I would have only got one or two periods. I also remember a time around March/April when I got nothing for six weeks. Luckily I was living at home.

    It all comes down to whether teachers are sick or out on trips/at matches with students and now that sick leave basically has to be certified, I'd imagine there's not a whole lot around.

    However, if you do manage to get and subbing hours, the rate is in the region of E50 per hour.


  • #3
    Shadow Lady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭Shadow Lady


    Thank you so much for your help.


  • #4
    AlanOB
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 207 ✭✭AlanOB


    This is precisely why I didn't do a Masters!

    I'm already in enough debt after doing the Dip, without having to pay the fees back aswell.

    Subbing hours will depend on the school you're in. If there are a large number of dips in your school, you won't get much, and with the new rules about sick leave and school business related absences, you're likely to get even less.

    :(


  • #5
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    It seems like there'll be a fair slew of us paying for the PGDE ourselves this year. I'll also be living at home with my parents, and travelling into UCD each day, which is a 75km round trip. Fortunately Bus Éireann's service is excellent in the morning now.

    It would be nice if there was something like a lower interest repayment plan that the state could offer. The lowest rate I can get is from my credit union at 6.5% - but it has to be paid back within a year otherwise it is 9.5% interest. I am thinking I'll just get a €3500 loan in Sept, and another €3500 towards the end of January for the second instalment.

    No doubt UCD will increase the fees this year from the existing €6500 despite prices, wages, rents and everything else being decreased.

    On the plus side the entire course is only for 9 months - Sept- May.

    I'm expecting to have to find a job at weekends and, perhaps, some week nights.


  • #6
    sitstill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    Dionysus wrote: »
    It seems like there'll be a fair slew of us paying for the PGDE ourselves this year. I'll also be living at home with my parents, and travelling into UCD each day, which is a 75km round trip. Fortunately Bus Éireann's service is excellent in the morning now.

    It would be nice if there was something like a lower interest repayment plan that the state could offer. The lowest rate I can get is from my credit union at 6.5% - but it has to be paid back within a year otherwise it is 9.5% interest. I am thinking I'll just get a €3500 loan in Sept, and another €3500 towards the end of January for the second instalment.

    No doubt UCD will increase the fees this year from the existing €6500 despite prices, wages, rents and everything else being decreased.

    On the plus side the entire course is only for 9 months - Sept- May.

    I'm expecting to have to find a job at weekends and, perhaps, some week nights.

    I'd be careful about taking up too much outside work if I were you. The dip is demanding in the extreme - depending on your subjects you could have lectures up until 6:30 without a break and lesson plans and resources and assignments will take up most of your free time. You will want the evenings when you get home just to relax and recharge. It is a horrible, horrible year but hopefully will be worth it for you.


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  • #7
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    It sounds like a horrendous year ahead, Sitstill. And you are not the first to give such views.

    Does anybody have a positive experience of the PGDE?


  • #8
    freire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭freire


    Dionysus wrote: »
    It sounds like a horrendous year ahead, Sitstill. And you are not the first to give such views.

    Does anybody have a positive experience of the PGDE?

    I personally didn't find it as incredibly arduous as it was made out to be. It was demanding, for sure, but nothing extraordinary. And I was 40 miles from my placement which was 12 miles from UCD.

    I didn't like UCD much however. Not a good place. And I struggled to see where my 6K went.


  • #9
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    freire wrote: »
    I personally didn't find it as incredibly arduous as it was made out to be. It was demanding, for sure, but nothing extraordinary. And I was 40 miles from my placement which was 12 miles from UCD.

    I didn't like UCD much however. Not a good place. And I struggled to see where my 6K went.

    52 miles each way is ferocious. You must be fairly cool to survive that. Having heard some of the stories here about the stress I'm thinking of renting a place near UCD. My girlfriend would go livid - absolutely livid - if I moved back to UCD campus as I spent many years of my undergrad and postgrad there. Momentum is necessary in any relationship.

    But anybody who has that freedom they are much, much better to be on UCD's campus - i.e. Glenomena. It was superb internet access, and even when your bed is crap they'll change it. It was just brilliant, too brilliant (hence my problem ach sin scéal eile ;-)

    It was over €6500 last year for the PGDE; I suspect it will be more this year. It's not unexpected that you didn't like UCD. One of my PGDE flatmates a couple of years ago had it very, very rough and was visiting the student councillors in UCD frequently. He was sleepwalking and other things which are just better off forgotten. That scares me about it. What in particular did you not like about it?


  • #10
    niall3r
    Closed Accounts Posts: 133 ✭✭niall3r


    I'd say itd be pretty tough to live in town on sporadic wages, i know my sister worked three jobs while doing hers.

    Im kinda worried cause iv worked in fast-food to put myself through college and can get a transfer no prob, but dont fancy serving my students burgers. . .i know thats pathetic but still a concern. not ashamed of my job, its great to have a guaranteed income these days.


  • #11
    freire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭freire


    Dionysus wrote: »
    What in particular did you not like about it?

    I didn't like it in general, if that makes any sense. Did my primary and first post-grad in a little town in the west and the atmosphere, ethos, student/department relations, fellow students, the whole shooting match, was just a lot better somehow.

    I felt Galway was a much more student-friendly university with helpful, understanding and accomodating staff and students.

    A lot less ugg boots there too.

    And that's as far as I'm going.


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  • #12
    baglady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 255 ✭✭baglady


    Just finishing my dip, I found it to be an extremely demanding year, I am pretty burnt out now. I got a bit of subbing, got paid like 600 two wks ago and 80 this week, got a few classes this wk, but there will be times when you only get one or none, I don't think you could rely totally on it to be honest


  • #13
    melbourne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭melbourne


    "I'd be careful about taking up too much outside work if I were you. The dip is demanding in the extreme - depending on your subjects you could have lectures up until 6:30 without a break and lesson plans and resources and assignments will take up most of your free time. You will want the evenings when you get home just to relax and recharge. It is a horrible, horrible year but hopefully will be worth it for you."

    Demanding in the extreme, that's just the tosh they write on the letter they send you out, I didn't have anyone to bank roll me and I worked 32hrs a week on top of the dip in UCD, it was grand and I still churned out a 1st, don't worry about it, get your masters in first, you will pick up a few hours supervision but probably not enough to pay all your bills, I think I was getting about €250 a week which on top of my normal work pay meant it was quite a profitable year. Find out how may others are doing the dip, but remember the sick leave now has to be certified and you won't be paid for covering teachers who go to sports events.

    You could consider a graduate loan from the student BOI branch across from UCD, that will give you a year without repayments but it could be a millstone this time next year.



    user_offline.gifquote.gif


  • #14
    clartharlear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭clartharlear


    melbourne wrote: »
    I worked 32hrs a week on top of the dip in UCD, it was grand and I still churned out a 1st,
    I think you should be more aware of how exceptional you are. In UCC at least, firsts in the Dip are very rare, and to manage that with all the other commitments indicates a really outstanding student teacher.

    I think my total income from subbing this year was less than €2000. As a mature student, I had savings from my previous job to get me through the year.

    With science lab requirements and optional extra courses I signed on for this year, I finished at 7pm or 9pm most days, bar Fridays.
    Does anybody have a positive experience of the PGDE?
    I wouldn't say I hated it because I love education with all my heart and mind, but there is a LOT wrong with the dip course that I did.


  • #15
    freire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭freire


    Yeah to that. Firsts like rocking horse dung I reckon. And different colleges seem to apply different parameters in assessment. In TCD, for example, your supervisor will tell you when s/he's gonna call! I would have liked that very much.

    Not taking anything from your first melbourne, superb result and one which I didn't even aspire to, being honest. Not getting one didn't hurt my prospects though, as I reckon after the first job it's fairly 'academic'. Ahem.


  • #16
    Dionysus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,420 ✭✭✭Dionysus


    freire wrote: »
    Yeah to that. Firsts like rocking horse dung I reckon. And different colleges seem to apply different parameters in assessment. In TCD, for example, your supervisor will tell you when s/he's gonna call! I would have liked that very much.

    Not taking anything from your first melbourne, superb result and one which I didn't even aspire to, being honest. Not getting one didn't hurt my prospects though, as I reckon after the first job it's fairly 'academic'. Ahem.

    What's this about a "supervisor"? Is a supervisor appointed to every PGDE student in UCD? Is he/she a member of the School of Education? And how often do they visit you to examine you in your school?

    How many people were in the PGDE in your year there?

    Anybody have a good experience from UCD's School of Education?

    (sorry about all the ceisteanna!)


  • #17
    freire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭freire


    Dionysus wrote: »
    What's this about a "supervisor"? Is a supervisor appointed to every PGDE student in UCD?

    Oh yeah! :pac:

    And that's another variable in the mix. Get an understanding supervisor, and to some extent, tutor, and it can make the difference of a grade.

    You'll have a Professional Practice Supervisor who will visit you 5 times in the year and your Uni Tutor will visit you once.

    These sit in on your lesson and assess your performance and then provide feedback. It can be daunting, to say the least, especially when it's that crowd of surly, hormonal 2nd years you haven't quite got to grips with!

    You'll have to have lesson plans written up and build up a portfolio which you submit for assessment in May.

    I am so glad I'm finished it :D.


  • #18
    melbourne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭melbourne


    Not taking anything from your first melbourne, superb result and one which I didn't even aspire to, being honest. Not getting one didn't hurt my prospects though, as I reckon after the first job it's fairly 'academic'. Ahem.

    To right Freire, I couldn't give a rats ass to be honest, after the first job its all about your ability and thats the way it should be. The supervisor thing is very important to nail, if you think you have a turkey don't be afraid to ask for a change, the orgainisers know the story and they know their supervisors, they also know that some of them leave a lot to be desired. At the end of the day they are there to help you, play the game with them as they will be making up a lot of your final grade. And don't sweat planning out every class to the perfect detail in case they arrive in 5 mins before you start. Pre-Prepare a class on a whatever topic you want, keep it in the bag, have your resources/photocopies and worksheets already copied and in a safe place so you can just grab them, have your pre prepared powerpoint as one of your desk top icons so its easy to find, you can even have the questions and tasks pre planned and included in your slide show....you get the jist, make life as easy as you can, the year will fly and by the time its over you will have enjoyed it and got a great sense of achievement, however if your like me you may not have learned how to spell correctly.....;


  • #19
    freire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭freire


    Yep. See the hoops and jump through 'em. Then get on with teaching in your own way, developing your own style over the next few years.

    'They' say it takes 3-4 years.

    I really don't like ppts though! :D

    But essential in the Dip stage.


  • #20
    sitstill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,380 ✭✭✭sitstill


    melbourne wrote: »
    Demanding in the extreme, that's just the tosh they write on the letter they send you out, I didn't have anyone to bank roll me and I worked 32hrs a week on top of the dip in UCD, it was grand and I still churned out a 1st, don't worry about it, get your masters in first, you will pick up a few hours supervision but probably not enough to pay all your bills, I think I was getting about €250 a week which on top of my normal work pay meant it was quite a profitable year. Find out how may others are doing the dip, but remember the sick leave now has to be certified and you won't be paid for covering teachers who go to sports events.

    Melbourne, I feel that you were very dismissive of my contribution to the discussion. What I had to say is not "tosh". I did find the hdip "demanding in the extreme" so did most of the people I know; demanding mentally, physically, emotionally and financially. I'd imagine that as UCD found the need to write similar in their letter means that the majority of students would agree. Not everyone has your apparent abundance of energy to work so many hours outside of college and still get a 1st. I'd love to know what kind of school you were in as well to manage to earn E250 a week from supervision classes!


  • #21
    melbourne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 64 ✭✭melbourne


    "Demanding in the extreme" Apologies sitstill, my point was aimed more at the UCD spiel that they send out, I'm afraid to say that they hype it up to be something that it isn't, it takes 4 years to do a trade and one to become a secondary school teacher, does that really add up. And then to top off the beginning of the year they call everyone in early and give them a talk on how hard it is to frighten them even more. If I recall correctly they actually got 2 or 3 students (hand picked) who did it last year to give there side of it, one person said it was a hard year whilst the other 2 went on a total mad one about getting sick and taking vitamin tablets to keep you going, All you have to do is show up in your school for a few hours a day, do a few assignments and 2 exams (the lesson plans will wear you down so just do the minimum which I think was 5 per week)
    Regarding the supervision hours there was on average 3-4 classes a day for supervision so thats roughly say 12hrs per week, at minimum thats knocking on the door of €360 before tax although some weeks you might only get 6 ot 7 (usually if you worked 12 you would be allocated payment for 9 or 10. Regards the schools place in that, don't blame me or them, blame the department for parachuting in teachers from schools that closed down, when those teachers then decided to jack and take early retirement they took their permanent posts with them so the gaps soon start appear in the timetables.

    And its not about "having an adundance of energy". It's about doing a bit of work. I never worked a 9-5 job, it was always work till the job is done so racking up the hours was never really an issue. Regards getting a first, anything over 55% would have done me, getting on the higher pay scale for having an honours was my one and only motivation, that lower pay grade would stay with you for the rest of your working life.


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  • #22
    Powerhouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,428 ✭✭✭Powerhouse


    melbourne wrote: »


    it takes 4 years to do a trade and one to become a secondary school teacher, does that really add up.


    No it doesn't add up because you cannot train to be a secondary school teacher without a degree which takes 3/4 years before you do your nominal training year, so it is disingenuous in the extreme to split hairs as you do.

    An 18 year old leaving school will be trained at their trade at 22. The same applies to a schoolteacher, or it may even take a year longer depending on the original degree.


  • #23
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,467 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    sitstill wrote: »
    I'd love to know what kind of school you were in as well to manage to earn E250 a week from supervision classes!

    +1

    For that to be the case, none of the permanent and qualified staff must have joined the S&S scheme, or else it was a school with shocking levels of absenteeism.

    Our student teachers this year were lucky to get one or two supervision classes a week.


  • #24
    clartharlear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭clartharlear


    melbourne wrote: »
    Pre-Prepare a class on a whatever topic you want, keep it in the bag,
    Are you suggesting having a special lesson just for the supervisor that you wouldn't 'waste' on the class themselves?
    What about your scheme of work and the special lesson plan not tying into that? Nobody would have gotten away with that in maths/science in UCC.
    you can even have the questions and tasks pre planned and included in your slide show
    My supervisor criticised that because it was too teacher-centred. Questions should be in reaction to how the students are learning, not "off a script", as he said.


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