For me, quitting is impossible

zero_nine · 03-05-2009 7:20pm #1

I have come to this conclusion the hard way. I cannot quit drinking. Even when I think I can, I should realise that this is just a temporary illusion and that given repeated attempts now, maybe 50 or so, I should know myself better by now. So I think I'm just gonna quit quitting. To be clear, I'm not an alco or anything, and I only really drink at the weekend, on the lash with the lads or whatever. I don't get into any trouble and its generally good craic. So why quit anyway? My hangovers are dreadful. Like, they are truly harrowing experiences. I don't know why this is. I drink less than my friends. But anyway, my cycle generally goes drink for a while, then one night drink a bit too much or maybe two-three days ina row, have an awful hangover with panic attacks and all the crp and then quit. But I'm 24, I'm recently single, and all my friends drink. I can maybe hold out for a few weeks until I realise that its just not possible to quit. I feel I'm missing out too much, and it actually ends up more stressful than the drinking.
Maybe when I'm older and married and don't rely on the social side so much it won't be as much as a problem. But now, at my age, in my situation, and in this crazy crazy society its what I'm going to do. In the meantime, I'm going to have to find some way of managing the hangovers. "Suck it up" doesn't work anymore.
This post probably doesn't suit this group since its a non-drinkers group but whatever. At least I tried. I will continue to envy you people!

RealEstateKing · 04-05-2009 12:49pm

It usually takes people a couple of goes to successfully give up drinking. It is harder in many ways than giving up using drugs - with drugs you can give up associating with people who are into it and move on. With booze, everybody you know is deeply into it and will continue to be - no social occassion from Birthday to Christening to Wedding to Funeral is ever without it, especially in Ireland.

Just remember that the social side of it is bull****: There is absolutely no essential connection between alcohol and socialising, it is simply what people in our culture tell themselves they need in order to socialise. Try this experiment with any other drug: Valium is relaxing right? So how is it possible to relax without taking valium? Well...people do it all the time, in fact anybody asking that question would be considered to have a Valium problem. Same with booze.

In fact, if you actually watch people drink you will see that booze actually has an anti-social effect: At the beginning of an evening people act about the same as when they are sober, and then after they turn the corner, all real social interaction becomes impossible: Alcohol actually prevents any meaningful interaction between people: You can watch your smashed friends having a heart to heart, but you can see that it's bull****: They'll have forgotten about it the next day, neither of them really means many of the things they are saying anyway and even if they did, the fact that they need a drink to be intimate with each other is a problem in itself.

This is without mentioning the part where they become aggressive, cloyingly sentimental, miserably depressed or simply pass out. Suffice it to say that If a martian were to come to earth now and see people's behaviour on alcohol, he would be mystified as to why we call it a 'social drug'.

In short: You are not missing anything when you give up. Secondly. in Ireland, one of the major things that keeps people drinking is that they beleive that hooking up with the opposite sex is impossible without it. There is truth in this, in that Irish people are so ill-at-ease with themselves that they need to be hammered to make advances on each other. This is not a country where you can ask a girl out during the day.

However a lot of it is simply learned behaviour, you probably, as I did, had your first kiss and first shag while drunk, and most subsequent ones, and so you grow up thinking that hooking up is inextricably linked to alcohol. Its not. You simply grew up in a culture where most people are under this illusion. It is no different to somebody who cant imagine listening to music without taking ecstacy first. Music, and sex, and romance are plenty good enough on their own.

Thirdly, one of the major effects of alcohol is to make us like things that we dont actually like. You can hang out with people who are dull, shag women/men who are ugly and go to boring parties until six in the morning when you drink. When you dont drink you have to seek out the company of interesting people, sleep with attractive men/women and go to good parties. This is harder obviously, but its much more fun. Better to actually enjoy yourself than simply change your brain chemistry to make you think you're enjoying yourself. As somebody once said: "I dont drink cause I like to know when Im having a good time."

So whaddya do? Dont simply give up alcohol. Give it up and start to consciously do more interesting stuff with your life: Get into the outdoors, join clubs and all the rest. And DONT sit at home watching DVDs - this feeds into the idea that being a non-drinker is anti-social and boring. Get out there, go to good parties and meet people, dance, get laid and go to gigs. Just avoid long boring evenings in the pub - they are the most likely to make you want to drink. Why? Because, *shock* *horror* *gasp* - long evenings sitting around the same table in a pub are BORING. Gigs, music, dancing, sex, good conversation and the outdoors are anything but.

zero_nine · 04-05-2009 1:11pm

Thanks dude for that reply. Its very very accurate.
You hit the nail on the head with the sex thing. Like last night, I thought, I need a woman, I therefore need to get hammered. I did get hammered, but I didn't get a woman. In fact, instead of getting a woman, a girl I had my eye on for a while was there and I kinda blew it with her. Not that I went up and tortured her or anything, but I just was that smashed that my confidence plummeted- for some reason I get very self concious when I drink, I lose my self respect or something. Anyway, that just went to prove that not only does alcohol not automatically lead to sex, but can ruin your chances with the special ones. I do agree that you do get laid more if you're drinking. It takes longer sober, but as someone else wrote, maybe this isn't a bad thing.
I'm curious as to your story though. I need to be convinced that at my age I can stop. I'm 24, and despite REALLY wanted to, I'm not wholly persuaded. Especially since I've tried so many times. Each failure is heart wrenching. I love hearing positive stories about non-drinkers. I think about it with delight. Its like a ticket out of the relentless bs.
Can me tell me your story? You sound like you're from the Allen Carr school of correction.

Thanks again for your reply. It was very heartening. All the stories about ex-drinkers seem to be about old people who have lost their familes due to their alcoholism. I'm just a social drinker who happens to disagree. Ps. it was Nancy Astor who said that about drinking and having a good time.

RealEstateKing · 04-05-2009 7:11pm

I guess you could say I was from the Allen Carr school of quitting alright!

I did read his book on Fags and that heped me quit them 2 years ago. And I basically thought, **** if I can give up the most addictive drug there is, then alcohol cant be that hard. I spent about a year giving up "forever" every Monday, and then was back drinking come the weekend, and swearing that from now on Id 'only drink at the weekend'. Eventually I realised I was kidding myself with this and picked Halloween 2007 as the time to do it - figured November was a boring month, and if I felt like sitting in being boring I wouldnt be missing any parties or anything.

As it happened I went to a lot of parties and found I enjoyed them more - particularly as being sober it became embarassingly easy to tell when girls were hitting on me - where Id always been oblivious before! And I found I enjoyed the night more because I didnt have the thought of a black day of misery tomorrow in the back of my mind.

Ok. My story? Well I havent got any down and dirty stories about My Booze Hell Im afraid - just the usual Irish story, same for me and many of my friends: Started drinking at 15 with a few cans, carried on through college having some fun, hungover every weekend, miserable every Monday.

By 25 was drinking every other night and by 28 every night, but only really heavily at weekends. Never drove drunk or hit anybody or shouted at anyone, just retreated into myself too much and became really gloomy and began to feel my self-confidence slipping away. And I quit and the gloom went away, and I stopped taking everything so seriously, and I began to do things I used to spend endless nights promising I would one day do.

Yes, as I think you've surmised, I dont go in for any AA type soul-searching - Drank a lot, had a lot of good times, eventually found the scales tipping in the opposite direction and got off the boat. I dont identify myself as an alcoholic or even a non-drinker, I just dont drink. Dont feel I am missing out any more than somebody who doesnt smoke pot, or do Valium or whatever else.

As for the ladies yeah, I remember once actually doing a tally of how many women I had gotten through alcohol, and how many I had missed out on through being too pissed or doing something ignorant without realising it and the weight was firmly on the latter.

Can you quit at 24? Sure. I did it at 31, but would say you've even more going for you at that age - REAL pleasure is all around you, it's just booze and booze culture that makes you think "Theres feck all else to do".

My tip would be get yourself a foreign girlfriend, preferably somebody from a sunny Latin country - you know one of those places where booze is far less important than staying in and having sex all day - that should see you right! I think for a lot of Irish, sex is the key to be honest - Its the idea that when you give up drinking you wont be a "young buck about town" any more that keeps you on it. Its pure BS, to be honest, you'll do better with women and be with better women when you're sober if the truth be told.

As well, smile! If there was one thing that put me off giving up drinking it was the thought that I'd have to be one of those 'dry drunks' , forever analysing the why's and wherefore's of my alcohol addiction in grubby church halls - Think of quitting booze as like breaking up with a girl who's a major psycho pain in the ass, but who you have great make-up sex with. You wouldnt want to spend the rest of your life grimly analysing your dysfunctional relationship - you'd simply say "Fantastic sex, but way too psycho for me, Im outta here..."

As well, dont be so hard on yourself for failing - each failure teaches you something about the way to finally get out - in my case each failure taught me I was kidding myself if I thought I could cut down or just drink at weekends. Also, you may realise this already, but a lot of the various ups and downs of mood that you probably have now (The Black Mondays and The Suicide Tuesdays) are probably caused by alcohol - you find your mood is much more even when you give up - and you almost never feel the same black fearful trepidation and miserable outlook that you now feel at least one day a week. That in itself is enough of a reason.

As well, dont become a puritan about it either: Dont become a wanker who purses their lips and says : "How Can people do that to themselves.." that just feeds in to the paradigm of "Drinker Fun/Non Drinker Boring" , which in itself leads right back to the bottle. Just say "Had my fun, now looking for something better.

Hope you succeed. We'll get to California someday Timmy...

disneyonfire · 04-05-2009 9:14pm

Im pretty much the same as you zero_nine. Ive lost count of the amount of times ive said i was going to quit and only lasted a few days. I also get horrific hangovers, usually resulting in getting sick, and every sunday morning i say to myself " Never Again!", but of course im lying. I think the key is having something else to do. Unfortunately i dont and i find it hard to even find someone else who would want to do something besides drink. Even if i go to the cinema with my friends we always end up in the pub after.

I agree that sex is a major factor in the whole thing, cos whenever i go against my decision to not drink its nearly always because i think im gonna be missing out on a chance to meet a girl, even though i know ill probably never meet someone i'd want to see again in a nightclub. I also cant stand being in a nightclub or busy pub sober so for me its either go out and drink, or stay in completely. Theyre usually my two choices every weekend and most of the time i go out just out of sheer boredom and then regret it the next day.

I agree with you RealEstateKing that you'll do better with women and be with better women when you're sober but where do you meet these women??

I do want to quit drinking or at least learn to drink in moderation, i.e. a few times a year, but its just so hard to socialise in this country without it. Maybe i just need some new friends.......

zero_nine · 05-05-2009 5:48pm

Thanks for your reply. Honestly RealEstateKing, you could write a sequal to Carr's book.

I thnk I needa quit for good more or less immediately. The balance has been stuck in the negative cyccle for way to long. Like its only one night in 5 that is actually worth the harrowning hangovers I get. Its the anxiety thats killing me. I have no big bad story either- as you said just the same old Irish story with my friends.

I'm a bit worried about people's reactions though. Thats whats its always about really. I've quit that many times that its embarrassing to tell anyone at this stage, because people just don't believe me.

If i could get into that frame of mind you have though I'll be fine. I managed it before, but only after about 5 weeks or so off it. I don't know why I started again at all after that. I think I had just forgotten about the bad times. I'm also terrified of the idea of being considered a dry sh*te. I Think its all about getting your head around it in as positive a light as possible. Soul-searching nonsense is just that- I mean, thing causes problem, stop doing thing= no more problem. End of.

Disneyonfire-we'll quit together, see who wins. I bet we both will.

Nostradamus · 06-05-2009 8:25pm

I have never had a problem with drinking, but all through most of my 20's and into my early 30's I never drank any booze at all.

I decided I did not like the taste of beer. Granted, all I knew about beer was chemical piss like Irish and American beers. Then while on a holiday in Germany when I was about 34, I drank some beer at a barbeque and could not get over how delicious it was. I had no hangover then next day after drinking this quality beer.

Since then I drink about once a month and I make sure it is always a quality brew and not some megaslop from some Irish or other brewery.

A few weeks back I went out with a friend to a pub (which I mostly boycott because I hate loud radios and British soccer) and I had to settle for a pint of Carlsberg.

Funny thing was although it tasted like fizzy soap water - I had this urge to drink more and more and I am not like this. Next day, I had a shocking hangover and literally could feel toxic chemicals in my body for days afterwards.

I have to wonder if the **** appalling vomit which pases for keg beer in Ireland really what causes the binge drinking, muppet behaviour and general mayhem and misery? Is there some chemicals in there either in the rubbish beer itself or the cleaning systems they use.

I will never drink anything that comes out of keg in an Irish pub ever again.

disneyonfire · 08-05-2009 6:44pm

zero_nine wrote: »

Disneyonfire-we'll quit together, see who wins. I bet we both will.

Yeh, let me know how you're getting on and ill do likewise.

First weekend hurdle ahead.....

colrow · 08-05-2009 8:27pm

disneyonfire wrote: »

Yeh, let me know how you're getting on and ill do likewise.

First weekend hurdle ahead.....

Good luck boys

zero_nine · 08-05-2009 8:49pm

Looking forward to it!

LOL Monday will be day number 8 for me !

colrow · 08-05-2009 9:07pm

Go for it!!! Hope you get buckets of babes as well.

zero_nine · 08-05-2009 9:08pm

colrow wrote: »

Go for it!!! Hope you get buckets of babes as well.

LOL you know me too well. I've just recently got my mojo back (my ex-gf stole it from me). I actually dreamt last night that I went to bar, and pulled... twice

colrow · 08-05-2009 9:17pm

In one of the local hotels theres a picture called "The Last Straw" in there is a a beautiful girl sitting apart from her bf,looking left out, while hes in full sway swilling back his beer carrying on an animated conversation with a beer swilling mate. I can imagine his complete lack of understanding when he gets dumped !!!! lol

zero_nine · 08-05-2009 9:20pm

I dunno, girls are funny like that, she'd probably end up wanting him more. LOL Women, there as mad as a bag of spiders.

colrow · 08-05-2009 9:23pm

zero_nine wrote: »

there as mad as a bag of spiders.

Effing hell, Brilliant rotflmao

zero_nine · 08-05-2009 9:26pm

colrow wrote: »

Effing hell, Brilliant rotflmao

LOL, yeah that line is class! I can't take credit for it though, its on "Hardibucks", an amateur show made for youtube, set in Clare or somewhere(?) here's a link, watch it if you like, its funny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq-G2ugAG44

chalad07 · 08-05-2009 9:41pm

RealEstateKing wrote: »

I guess you could say I was from the Allen Carr school of quitting alright!

I did read his book on Fags and that heped me quit them 2 years ago. And I basically thought, **** if I can give up the most addictive drug there is, then alcohol cant be that hard. I spent about a year giving up "forever" every Monday, and then was back drinking come the weekend, and swearing that from now on Id 'only drink at the weekend'. Eventually I realised I was kidding myself with this and picked Halloween 2007 as the time to do it - figured November was a boring month, and if I felt like sitting in being boring I wouldnt be missing any parties or anything.

As it happened I went to a lot of parties and found I enjoyed them more - particularly as being sober it became embarassingly easy to tell when girls were hitting on me - where Id always been oblivious before! And I found I enjoyed the night more because I didnt have the thought of a black day of misery tomorrow in the back of my mind.

Ok. My story? Well I havent got any down and dirty stories about My Booze Hell Im afraid - just the usual Irish story, same for me and many of my friends: Started drinking at 15 with a few cans, carried on through college having some fun, hungover every weekend, miserable every Monday.

By 25 was drinking every other night and by 28 every night, but only really heavily at weekends. Never drove drunk or hit anybody or shouted at anyone, just retreated into myself too much and became really gloomy and began to feel my self-confidence slipping away. And I quit and the gloom went away, and I stopped taking everything so seriously, and I began to do things I used to spend endless nights promising I would one day do.

Yes, as I think you've surmised, I dont go in for any AA type soul-searching - Drank a lot, had a lot of good times, eventually found the scales tipping in the opposite direction and got off the boat. I dont identify myself as an alcoholic or even a non-drinker, I just dont drink. Dont feel I am missing out any more than somebody who doesnt smoke pot, or do Valium or whatever else.

As for the ladies yeah, I remember once actually doing a tally of how many women I had gotten through alcohol, and how many I had missed out on through being too pissed or doing something ignorant without realising it and the weight was firmly on the latter.

Can you quit at 24? Sure. I did it at 31, but would say you've even more going for you at that age - REAL pleasure is all around you, it's just booze and booze culture that makes you think "Theres feck all else to do".

My tip would be get yourself a foreign girlfriend, preferably somebody from a sunny Latin country - you know one of those places where booze is far less important than staying in and having sex all day - that should see you right! I think for a lot of Irish, sex is the key to be honest - Its the idea that when you give up drinking you wont be a "young buck about town" any more that keeps you on it. Its pure BS, to be honest, you'll do better with women and be with better women when you're sober if the truth be told.

As well, smile! If there was one thing that put me off giving up drinking it was the thought that I'd have to be one of those 'dry drunks' , forever analysing the why's and wherefore's of my alcohol addiction in grubby church halls - Think of quitting booze as like breaking up with a girl who's a major psycho pain in the ass, but who you have great make-up sex with. You wouldnt want to spend the rest of your life grimly analysing your dysfunctional relationship - you'd simply say "Fantastic sex, but way too psycho for me, Im outta here..."

As well, dont be so hard on yourself for failing - each failure teaches you something about the way to finally get out - in my case each failure taught me I was kidding myself if I thought I could cut down or just drink at weekends. Also, you may realise this already, but a lot of the various ups and downs of mood that you probably have now (The Black Mondays and The Suicide Tuesdays) are probably caused by alcohol - you find your mood is much more even when you give up - and you almost never feel the same black fearful trepidation and miserable outlook that you now feel at least one day a week. That in itself is enough of a reason.

As well, dont become a puritan about it either: Dont become a wanker who purses their lips and says : "How Can people do that to themselves.." that just feeds in to the paradigm of "Drinker Fun/Non Drinker Boring" , which in itself leads right back to the bottle. Just say "Had my fun, now looking for something better.

Hope you succeed. We'll get to California someday Timmy...

Great post mate, i'm sure it could be a great help to anyone considering giving up the grogg.

zero_nine · 08-05-2009 9:42pm

chalad07 wrote: »

Great post mate, i'm sure it could be a great help to anyone considering giving up the grogg.

Hear hear, Its pure class.

disneyonfire · 22-05-2009 11:37pm

zero_nine wrote: »

Looking forward to it! LOL Monday will be day number 8 for me !

So, are you still sober?

paddyboy23 · 25-05-2009 12:05am

i was your age when i taut the same loved a few pints the weekend odd time hav a few to many bad hangovers got married at your age but the drink didnt stop and i think like you are doing now i was lien to myself everyone sees this exsept u my wife told me severial times to keep a eye on my drinking but it just got worse and i still didnt think i had a problem look im only tryin to help you it took me to turn yellow and to spend my first night of my life in hosptial for me to say i mite have a problem if i told you what i went trough with drink it would scare it took me probably 50 times to but i got there dont go down that road mate

Dagon · 26-05-2009 1:46pm

I was 23 when I gave it up. I'm 28 now and have never looked back, and would like to agree with the following comment:

My tip would be get yourself a foreign girlfriend, preferably somebody from a sunny Latin country

This is indeed great advice! My new girlfriend is from Brazil, and she has no interest in drinking at all, and has actually never been drunk

She has opened her mind - same as I have - to doing tons of other cool things that are fun and interesting. The world of boozing is such a grey area for me now, and it only seems to slow people down, and stop them from exploring their lives in a much deeper and more meaningful way.

chardonnay · 29-05-2009 8:52pm

I HAVE to know are u two guys (disney what what and down to zero what what) still on the wagon?

disneyonfire · 30-05-2009 2:17pm

Im afraid not. I couldnt handle the lonely nights at home. I have cut down a good bit though so one step at a time!

paddyboy23 · 30-05-2009 3:37pm

disneyonfire wrote: »

Im afraid not. I couldnt handle the lonely nights at home. I have cut down a good bit though so one step at a time!

if your drink depended cutting down mite not be enough im not been horrible i no i couldnt do that its all or notting with this disese and that what it is and i no what im talking about sorry

disneyonfire · 30-05-2009 5:50pm

I'm not drink dependent at all, but thanks.

paddyboy23 · 30-05-2009 8:25pm

disneyonfire wrote: »

I'm not drink dependent at all, but thanks.

not a bother

colrow · 31-05-2009 8:58am

my sons got the disease as well, he tells me that he has "social phobia" and needs to drink, i can see it staring me in the face, but he just clams up if his alcoholism feels under threat. Powerless, now thats what I feel watching him, pursue drinking to the gates of insanity and or death. Its a bitch

mr chips · 31-05-2009 12:27pm

Thought-provoking thread.
This weekend, I'm going to bury a cousin who went from being a high-flyer in his youth for most of the 90s, to losing his partner, his job, his driving licence, and eventually his ability to keep himself clean. His dad used to call to see him & not know if the reason for not getting an answer at the door was down to him being out, being out for the count or whether he might be lying dead inside the flat. He'd been hospitalised a couple of times, including coming through a coma when the diagnosis was pancreatic failure. Somehow he made it through that, but ended up just the same.

However, after about ten years of misery & squalor, he went into rehab last year, and fair play to him - he beat the drink. Ended up becoming a mentor for other addicts, and was registered to go back to college this year.

Three weeks ago he was diagnosed with liver cancer, and was told that it had spread to his lungs and pancreas. He died last Sunday, age 39. I guess the years of heavy drinking and smoking had taken too much out of him after all.

I'm gutted for him, truly gutted, and it's going to be a hard funeral to attend. I'm very glad for him that he had managed to turn his life around before he died, that he was living on his own terms once again. I'm also glad that he managed to put himself in a position to help others. But I'm angry that he didn't get the chance to make the good stuff happen, that he'll be remembered mostly for all the tragic mistakes he made and how he didn't manage to sort himself out in time for his life to have had a different shape.

Drink isn't a crutch, and for myself I know I can be sober and still have a good time - it doesn't ruin my night when it's my turn to be the driver. I think that's something that you can learn over time, even if you do feel self-conscious when you're going out. I'm not anti-drink, and I enjoy drinking, probably a little more often than is good for me in the same way that I eat more fast food than is good for me. But it doesn't control my life, doesn't have a hold over me or stop me doing what I want. Nor do I need it to be able to do what I want - go out, have a good time & a laugh, etc.

Colrow, I don't know if it's worth getting your son to read this thread. He might dismiss it out of hand, or tell you to feck off and stop interfering or whatever. But whatever his reason for "needing" to drink, it's the wrong one. It might be worth him taking a bit of time just for himself to work out what he really needs - someone to talk to? Someone who's happy to listen and like him for who he is when he's not pished? I dunno, I'm no expert at all. But if he's drinking to control a social phobia, all he's doing is swapping one prison for another. There's plenty of groups out there that can give him a wee hand to make his own way through life.

colrow · 31-05-2009 12:37pm

Thanks Mr C.

Its appalling the tragic waste of lives, people laugh at the antics of the poor old alcoholic, but its tragic the person is dying. My sons just like I was I suppose, and I lept hold of my alcoholism until I was well and truly beaten, its very frustrating that I can't get through to him, but I guess I've sewn enough seeds there, I hope they sprout one day.

chardonnay · 31-05-2009 6:49pm

yeah I kinda feel for disney on fire and zero nine. I have trouble with the whole disease bit, the alcohol dependency bit. Its terminology that doesn't resonate. I haven't drank for four months, don't go much for the twelve steps either. Can't describe how much better life is. Kinda wishin i'd done it sooner. I'm 45 but then again I had 30 great years drinkin as well..... didn't kill myself or anyone else, didn't go down the road of destruction but man its soooo good to learn to live without it. Not easy but soooooo goooooooood:eek:

Trinity · 03-07-2009 11:44am

colrow wrote: »

Thanks Mr C.

Its appalling the tragic waste of lives, people laugh at the antics of the poor old alcoholic, but its tragic the person is dying. My sons just like I was I suppose, and I lept hold of my alcoholism until I was well and truly beaten, its very frustrating that I can't get through to him, but I guess I've sewn enough seeds there, I hope they sprout one day.

I think this is one of the lessons in life we have to learn ourselves the hard way.

Until you see there is something wrong you are unlikely to think it needs fixing

And unfortunately its only when people hit rock bottom or something bad happens that you wake up and think fcuk i have a problem here

you cannot help someone that does not want to be helped.

For me, quitting is impossible

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