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Can they do that?

2

Comments

  • #32
    Locamon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 363 ✭✭Locamon


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Definitely. I heard they often abduct people that don't pay their fares and sell them into slavery in Connemara.

    Complete thugs. I see fare-evaders beaten to within an inch of their life on a regular basis on the LUAS. Someone's got to stop these animals.

    Dead right too sends out a message:D

    What do they do if they just catch your average Irish fare evader -take their shoes until they come up with the money? 10/10 for these guys using their initiative even if it appears completely illegal.


  • #33
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Locamon wrote: »
    Dead right too sends out a message:D

    What do they do if they just catch your average Irish fare evader -take their shoes until they come up with the money? 10/10 for these guys using their initiative even if it appears completely illegal.

    Sure remember what happened a couple years back in London with that Brazilian lad who didn't pay his fare? Sent out a strong message that did.

    What?.... too soon?


  • #34
    giggsy664
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭giggsy664


    What does gardai mean anyway?

    Oh, it's Irish for "Not shooting a Brazilian in the back".

    Too soon?


  • #35
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Afaik no one except a Garda can ask to see ID unless it's a voluntary amenity, like walking in to the pub (ie: You can refuse t show it, they can refuse to let you on.)

    On the odd ocassion I travel without a ticket on bus or luas etc I just make up a random name and address and refuse to flash ID to confirm. I figure all the times the theiving drivers keep the change on DubBus or the crappy service on Luas, I'm entitled to a few free rides every now and then.


  • #36
    Locamon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 363 ✭✭Locamon


    Nevore wrote: »
    Afaik no one except a Garda can ask to see ID unless it's a voluntary amenity, like walking in to the pub (ie: You can refuse t show it, they can refuse to let you on.)

    On the odd ocassion I travel without a ticket on bus or luas etc I just make up a random name and address and refuse to flash ID to confirm. I figure all the times the theiving drivers keep the change on DubBus or the crappy service on Luas, I'm entitled to a few free rides every now and then.

    Hmmm....maybe the service is crappy because they have to cut back because people don't pay the fares!


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  • #37
    maxxie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 949 ✭✭✭maxxie


    Locamon wrote: »
    Hmmm....maybe the service is crappy because they have to cut back because people don't pay the fares!

    cut what back, comfort? speed? The service is ****e regardless..
    The route from stephens green is nice isnt it but my god the tallaght route is a nightmare, goes through every ****hole in south dublin. They planned that well!!


  • #38
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    maxxie wrote: »
    cut what back, comfort? speed? The service is ****e regardless..
    The route from stephens green is nice isnt it but my god the tallaght route is a nightmare, goes through every ****hole in south dublin. They planned that well!!

    Personally I find the LUAS quite good. I can score smack, meth or crack on it any time of the day.

    Plus - it's got that 'free social club' vibe going for me, Jonno, Deco, Paulo, Franciso, Christophero, Ignatiuso and Bretto. You can always be sure to meet one of 'yer buds' on there and sure if you're you can always intimidate some poshos for a laugh, like.


  • #39
    Gavin "shels"
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,990 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Raze_them_all wrote: »
    Bouncers can keep it and hand it into the guards if you gave your passport to someone else that clearly isn't you but not if it's yours.

    Are you sure? I'm nearly sure that bouncers can't withhold your passport from you but they can connect the guards on the matter, bouncers don't have any extra rights than me or you outside of the premises, which is were most of them do be.



    On the matter of the Luas inspector, I wouldn't even stop for them, it's there fault they're weren't on the actualy Luas checking people. I would legally if you have to stop for them on the platform? I doubt it.


  • #40
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Locamon wrote: »
    Hmmm....maybe the service is crappy because they have to cut back because people don't pay the fares!
    The red line has been crappy since the get go. Purely anecdotal but apparently the amount of staff working on the Green line, ticket collectors and security at night etc, far outweighs that of the Red. Courtesy of Joe Duffy natch, despite how much I hate him.

    Anyway, eh... you did see their posted profits for 08 right? Don't remember the specific numbers off the top of the head but Veolia are in no way hurting financially on the Luas at least, can't speak for the rest of their holdings.

    I avoid the Redline outside of peak hours like a plague. Fortunately to and from work it's so packed that the scobies tend not to be a problem.


  • #41
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Where was The Citizen while all of this was taking place??


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  • #42
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    No, they can't. There was a fuss kicked up about this sorta thing recently (relating to bouncers taking passports actually), I believe it's the case that the passport is the property of the Dept of Justice, and no private person or company is allowed to confiscate it. Pretty sure there's a penalty also.


  • #43
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Gavin shels wrote: »
    On the matter of the Luas inspector, I wouldn't even stop for them, it's there fault they're weren't on the actualy Luas checking people. I would legally if you have to stop for them on the platform? I doubt it.

    I think if they see you getting off the LUAS then they can ask you for a ticket, if you don't stop for them and leg it it can be seen as fare-evading.

    I think this woman was on the LUAS when they asked her and they stepped off the tram with her to explain the situation.


  • #44
    .Bob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 67 ✭✭.Bob


    i used to always pay for the luas, but now i have a collection of i'd say over 100 tickets i carry in my bag, so whenever an inspector comes around i very slowly sort through them "looking" for todays ticket, then hop off at the next stop ;)


  • #45
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    .Bob wrote: »
    i used to always pay for the luas, but now i have a collection of i'd say over 100 tickets i carry in my bag, so whenever an inspector comes around i very slowly sort through them "looking" for todays ticket, then hop off at the next stop ;)

    Does that actually work?


  • #46
    Gavin "shels"
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,990 ✭✭✭✭Gavin "shels"


    Dave! wrote: »
    No, they can't. There was a fuss kicked up about this sorta thing recently (relating to bouncers taking passports actually), I believe it's the case that the passport is the property of the Dept of Justice, and no private person or company is allowed to confiscate it. Pretty sure there's a penalty also.

    That's what I thought alright.


  • #47
    az2wp0sye65487
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,931 ✭✭✭az2wp0sye65487


    Something I've often wondered about fare-dodging and 'On-The-Spot' fines etc...

    Not that I've ever done the whole fare dodging thing, but if a bus or Luas inspector was to stop me and I didn't have a valid ticket, there's no way they'd be getting any ID or address details from me. You could easily just make up and address; or a simple 'fcuk that, I aint tellin you' and then leggit!


  • #48
    .Bob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 67 ✭✭.Bob


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Does that actually work?


    ^^
    yup, well sort of, i did have to get off at the next stop because otherwise id run outta tickets.

    when i get asked spend ages fumbling through my bag, then produce my huge hadnfull of tickets, then sloooowly go through one by one. sometimes the inspector gets impatient and tries to take them all off you to find it but just refuse.


    hmmm new idea, yknow the way a lot of ticket inspectors are foreign, and the first language of this country is irish... what if you just refuse to talk english to them? :O

    "ticket please" >>> "ceard? ni thuigim tu!" :P


  • #49
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    .Bob wrote: »
    ^^
    yup, well sort of, i did have to get off at the next stop because otherwise id run outta tickets.

    when i get asked spend ages fumbling through my bag, then produce my huge hadnfull of tickets, then sloooowly go through one by one. sometimes the inspector gets impatient and tries to take them all off you to find it but just refuse.


    hmmm new idea, yknow the way a lot of ticket inspectors are foreign, and the first language of this country is irish... what if you just refuse to talk english to them? :O

    "ticket please" >>> "ceard? ni thuigim tu!" :P

    Sounds like an awful lot of hassle. Would it not be easier just to buy a ticket?


  • #50
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    David Nutty Softball wrote: »
    Something I've often wondered about fare-dodging and 'On-The-Spot' fines etc...

    Not that I've ever done the whole fare dodging thing, but if a bus or Luas inspector was to stop me and I didn't have a valid ticket, there's no way they'd be getting any ID or address details from me. You could easily just make up and address; or a simple 'fcuk that, I aint tellin you' and then leggit!
    Yeah I'm also wondering about that

    Any legal eagles know the situation with that? I don't imagine an inspector is allowed to restrain you, nor do I think they're allowed to refuse to open the door if you say you wanna leave, as they would probably be false imprisonment. I would have thought all they can do is call the Gardai.

    Anybody confirm?


  • #51
    bladespin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,557 ✭✭✭bladespin


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    No, she could have them arrested.


    Her passport belongs to whatever her home country is technically, taking it without the permission of the minister for foreign affairs would be considered theft (possibly even treason technically) so No.
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  • #52
    4Xcut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,248 ✭✭✭4Xcut


    Absolutely disgraceful. They have no legal entitlement at all to take anyone's passport.

    She should persue a civil case for as much as she can.

    While I completely agree that fares must be paid and that the company can enact reasonable measures to ensure such, this was far and away taking advantage of someone who was unaware of the situation.

    Also stated above that they intended to sell it on. They may very well have intended such. If they knew that they had no entitlement to take it, they would have only taken it for this purpose. The only other explanation is that they were either grossly untrainded on how to do their job or on a power trip.

    None of which are acceptable.


  • #53
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Did they actually take the passport off this woman and refuse to give it back or were they just holding it and getting her details off it?

    When I passed by it was clear that the woman did not have any English (or was at least faking pretty well that she didn't) - one of the inspectors was miming going to sleep to try and get across the idea that they were asking for her address.


  • #54
    Dord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,815 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Did they actually take the passport off this woman and refuse to give it back or were they just holding it and getting her details off it?

    When I passed by it was clear that the woman did not have any English (or was at least faking pretty well that she didn't) - one of the inspectors was miming going to sleep to try and get across the idea that they were asking for her address.

    But wouldn't that just look like he wanted to sleep with her and thats the only way she could get her passport back... :confused:


  • #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,183 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dave! wrote: »
    Yeah I'm also wondering about that

    Any legal eagles know the situation with that? I don't imagine an inspector is allowed to restrain you, nor do I think they're allowed to refuse to open the door if you say you wanna leave, as they would probably be false imprisonment. I would have thought all they can do is call the Gardai.

    Anybody confirm?

    Bye-laws, which include the payment of fines and on-the-spot fines, must be approved by a Minister responsible for that area to be enforceable. Once they are they take on legal status and those persons legally charged with enforcing them also enjoy a legal status and they can, if you refuse to pay the fine, temporarily detain you so that the Gardai can be called.

    Imagine if you met a burgular in your house and you managed to restrain him and call the Gardai. You won't be charged with false imprisonment.

    Since people who refuse to pay on the spot fines are, in fact, criminals (as are those who use the Luas without paying) they can and should be treated as such.
    bladespin wrote: »
    Her passport belongs to whatever her home country is technically, taking it without the permission of the minister for foreign affairs would be considered theft (possibly even treason technically) so No.

    It would not be treason, that is quite preposterous. However, a passport is officially the property of the State which issues it and, as such, refusal to relinquish a persons passport is not just theft (though it is theft) but also a criminal offence against a foreign nation.


  • #56
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,926 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Nevore wrote: »
    I figure all the times the theiving drivers keep the change on DubBus or the crappy service on Luas, I'm entitled to a few free rides every now and then.
    They might have a problem when they're asked to account for their ticket books though.
    David Nutty Softball wrote: »
    Something I've often wondered about fare-dodging and 'On-The-Spot' fines etc...

    Not that I've ever done the whole fare dodging thing, but if a bus or Luas inspector was to stop me and I didn't have a valid ticket, there's no way they'd be getting any ID or address details from me. You could easily just make up and address; or a simple 'fcuk that, I aint tellin you' and then leggit!
    And they can have you arrested.


  • #57
    memo_to_all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 70 ✭✭memo_to_all


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Did they actually take the passport off this woman and refuse to give it back or were they just holding it and getting her details off it?

    When I passed by it was clear that the woman did not have any English (or was at least faking pretty well that she didn't) - one of the inspectors was miming going to sleep to try and get across the idea that they were asking for her address.

    I was standing right beside the woman and the inspectors fixing my sons jacket...I could see she was Vietnamese (from PassPort). I could clearly hear the taller guy telling her she could "have it back when she paid". The girl looked very confused by the whole affair and was standing there.

    I beleive she should have paid the fare...but a foriegn national..little or no english...jeeze a bit of common sense.


  • #58
    Epic Tissue
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Epic Tissue


    memo_to_all wrote: »
    I felt very sorry for her...but typical Irish just walked away.

    Damn, if you were Brazilian you would have saved the day! Might have rescued a kitten from a tall tree too :(


  • #59
    dunnomede?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭dunnomede?


    Epic Tissue wrote: »
    Damn, if you were Brazilian you would have saved the day! Might have rescued a kitten from a tall tree too :(

    or get riddled with bullets by the met police....


  • #60
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Victor wrote: »
    And they can have you arrested.
    They can file a report, they are not allowed to do anything themselves.

    Walmart is my favorite example here. unbelievable shyte inside.

    http://consumerist.com/5152730/walmart-steals-your-cart-because-you-wont-let-them-check-your-receipt


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  • #61
    Coriolanus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Victor wrote: »
    They might have a problem when they're asked to account for their ticket books though.And they can have you arrested.
    Anecdotal only, but apparently what they used to do was not give change, print off a change receipt periodically and send one of the kids in to get the cash. *shrug*


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