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DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

2456759

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,314 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    tretle wrote: »
    The contract that they offered boxer was a 12 year one, am I the only one who finds that a bit too long. In Britain its a 4 year contract, I think thats a much better approach because at the end of the four years if the content is not up to scratch they can offer the space to another channel, also instead of trying to sell off 3 muxe's they should just charge tv broadcasters fee to broadcast on free to air in ireland for a four year contract(on a channel per channel basis, not a bundling of 3 muxes).
    So happy boxer failed :D Made my day :D

    The UK Mux contracts are also 12 years.
    Multiplex A and Multiplex 2 Initial Licence Period was 1998 to 2010, Ofcom stated last year following a consultation "the licensees may apply to renew their licences for one further period of 12 years".
    The old OnDigital/ITV Muxes were reissued to BBC and Crown Castle in late 2003 for a period of 12 years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 116 ✭✭medja


    watty wrote: »
    For those confused, I merged threads and then demerged them

    Very Time Warner AOL:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »

    Which channel do people want next though?
    * An RTE kids/education channel
    * RTE News 24?
    * RTE 3 (likely repeats and US rubbish, or simulcast of RTE International?)
    * TV3's 2nd channel of low budget US repeats?
    * Something imaginative from TG4?
    * An Irish Film channel?

    No doubt it will take OneVision, the RTE/UPC and BCI a while to realise the reality of the situation.

    As you have said on may occassions watty it is not how many channels it is what is on the channels.

    And as I have repeated the following should happen.

    RTÉ NL should be in charge of the role out of DTT why should the public foot the bill for private companies?

    RTÉ should invest their time into providing a good service on both RTÉ ONE and TWO with TTV running from 6am - 7pm on RTE TWO under the RTE TWO brand.

    Extra channels from RTÉ:-
    THE DEN on RTÉ THREE
    RTÉ THREE: RTÉ ONE AND TWO's late night schdules in prime time, with suitable RTÉ ONE/TWO repeats.
    RTÉ INTERNATIONAL/FOUR archive programmes and news programmes from Ireland for the world.

    TG4 should continue to invest in programming for TG4 with no change, TG4 Scannan should be a co-investment by TG4 and the IFB/BSÉ using archived shorts and imports from TG4s programming budget the station cannot be whole concerned with Film Buffs as this is off putting to the rest of the audience. TG4 Nuacht (News from around the world from other EBU broadcasters).

    TV3 should insure futher investment into programming for TV3, 3e as is and if they really want 3TODAY. with Setanta Ireland.

    Another Irish company providing competition to RTÉ ONE, RTÉ TWO, TV3 and TG4.

    BBC 1 NI, BBC 2 NI, UTV and C4.

    IRELAND HD from all Irish broadcasters in HD.

    Setanta and Sky PPV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I think in the short term DTT will launch this Autumn officially, but just the PSB Mux (free channels only).

    None of the broadcasters will have stomach to add extra channels or HD simulcast for a year or so after launch when Advertising revenues rise as we exit recession.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    I think in the short term DTT will launch this Autumn officially, but just the PSB Mux (free channels only).

    None of the broadcasters will have stomach to add extra channels or HD simulcast for a year or so after launch when Advertising revenues rise as we exit recession.


    I think they at this point have to push the DTT role out, even if it is just 1, 2, 3 and 4 with SimuHD.

    This is just more time wasting. As I have said on many occassions it doesn't matter what is on DTT it has to be roled out regardless and they can't wait any longer.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 849 ✭✭✭petronius


    Ah dissappointed I had like the circuit board rolling video that was on the test channel?

    It is a pity Boxer wont be a rival to SKY or NTL/UPC or Magnet, and keep them competitive

    With freesat + RTE DTT available without a continual charge boxer & NTL aint worth it

    RTE NL as well as the main 4
    RTE 1, RTE 2, TV3 TG4 should deliver the non subscription Irish channels, 3e, Setanta Ireland?

    And maybe the RTE 3, Den TV, RTE 1+1 etc. and even the diaspora RTE International tv if it is revived..

    If the bandwidth isnt being used by boxer then let/insist on RTE using it, 4 free DTTV channels is pathetic considering the UK has bout 30+ per region!!

    I also think it is pointless having a separate system to the UK, even if the UK will eventually go MPEG-4 with Freeview.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,732 ✭✭✭✭DMC


    If anything has been learned from this whole debacle, at least one good decision has been made.

    That our public service broadcasters got a mux of its own, independent of the award of the other three muxes which were the gift of the BCI to Boxer.

    And look at where we are now. Almost all the main transmitters and some relays have the RTÉ mux fired up and testing, almost a full service. That, looking back, was a lesson learned from the OnDigital / ITV Digital disaster across the water, that the public service broadcasters were immune to what was perceived that the market could deliver.

    Proof today, (again) that the market couldn't deliver. But we have the 4 in the clear for free in digital quality. All the public needs now is the means to receive it, either through new TV's with MPEG4 built in, or the supply of STB's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    Failboat.jpg

    Personally I am glad they pulled out of this. It would have been an absolute waste of DTT space


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 500 ✭✭✭who is this


    medja wrote: »
    Very Time Warner AOL:D

    AOL TimeWarner actually :p (although technically AOL bought Time Warner, and the new AOL renamed to AOL TimeWarner subsequently sold its old self i.e. AOL!)

    But I really think this is a step FORWARD not back. I had been sincerely hoping this would happen.

    I don't see why ComReg or BCI (or both?) insist on using up all 4 muxes immediately. Why can't they just start off with the four (or more if you wanna count the planned "RTÉ Three" etc.) and then use up the rest as there is SPECIFIC demand for them: i.e. as a specific channel wants a slot, then licence part of a given mux. Why must they licence the entirety of the muxes to "hypothetical plans" (I mean "BBC Ireland", come on!)

    I would be happy to see it launch with just:
    RTÉ One
    RTÉ Two
    TV3
    TG4
    3e

    and any of those other proposed channels (Film channel etc.) if they actually create them. If Channel 4, for example, want a slot for "E4" (since it has ann Irish adstream) then add them later.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,535 ✭✭✭Zonda999


    slegs wrote: »
    A combination of free PSB DTT, FTA Satellite and PAY Sky Sports DTT may interest some people as it may be cheaper than having to pay Sky for their bundles just to get Sky Sports.

    Yea, definitely. I already have DTT and HD FTA satellite. I would have been interested in having the option of just paying for sky sports, be it 25e or something per month.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I would be happy to see it launch with just:
    RTÉ One
    RTÉ Two
    TV3
    TG4
    3e

    and any of those other proposed channels (Film channel etc.) if they actually create them. If Channel 4, for example, want a slot for "E4" (since it has ann Irish adstream) then add them later.

    I agree even if I detested 3e anything is better then nothing at this stage.

    As for "E4", channel 4 would have to pay to be on an Free-To-Air slot, I don't think they would be bothered.

    However if the 4 main terrestrial Irish channels where on Freeview in NI I would have no problem seeing the 4 main terrestrial NI channels on "OneVision".

    Is it okay if I call it OneVision of the time being. I will change to EasyTV when it happens.

    Ironically it doesn't seem to be that easy!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,152 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    watty wrote: »
    TV3: Little if any extra cash. Not even doing full analogue coverage, won't pay RTENL for all the sites at the minute. ITV parents problems due to downturn
    Setanta: Problems with pay TV and finance. Are they up for sale?

    What ITV parents? Doughty Hanson owns both TV3 outright and a good whack of Setanta


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I'm living past? ITV sold their share of TV3?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,355 ✭✭✭Phibsboro




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Zonda999 wrote: »
    Yea, definitely. I already have DTT and HD FTA satellite. I would have been interested in having the option of just paying for sky sports, be it 25e or something per month.

    You can be sure no matter what the platform, Sky will ensure that it's a premium to get Sky Sports.

    It's only 1% viewing time. So wouldn't support a PayTV platform as most of the money would go to Sky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,152 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    watty wrote: »
    I'm living past? ITV sold their share of TV3?

    As did Canwest. May and January 2006 respectively.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Elmo wrote: »
    I agree even if I detested 3e anything is better then nothing at this stage.

    As for "E4", channel 4 would have to pay to be on an Free-To-Air slot, I don't think they would be bothered.

    However if the 4 main terrestrial Irish channels where on Freeview in NI I would have no problem seeing the 4 main terrestrial NI channels on "OneVision".

    Is it okay if I call it OneVision of the time being. I will change to EasyTV when it happens.

    Ironically it doesn't seem to be that easy!

    I think there is only point at looking at free channels. I'd be very very surprised if OneVision or EasyTV happens. Re: E4, No UK channel would pay to be on an Irish Platform, except maybe some larger shopping channels. Any FreeTV or PayTV operator in Ireland would have to pay even for the UK channels that are free on Satellite. The economics simply don't work. Also DTT has higher transmission costs than Cable or Satellite per channel.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,538 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    I had a long post written on this, but I keep getting logged out for some reason. So I'll sumarise...

    It know seems clear that in the current climate, Pay DTT is an unviable solution. If they couldn't make it work in the UK they won't make it work here. The only places pay-DTT has worked is where there is lower multichannel penetration already (or in the case of Sweden, been pushed to death by the Government...who own Boxer. So much so that they were nearly taken to the European Court of Justice over it).

    I wish OneVision well in their negotiations with the BCI, if they decide to re-open them. In the end I think they will come to the same conclusion as Boxer, that launching pay DTT in the middle of the recession is unviable.

    So where does that leave DTT in Ireland? First thing is, the Government is now faced with the unenviable job of trying to sell a DTT service which will have no significant advantage over analogue terrestrial. People will not see any advantage in switching if they are told there might be one or two more channels, maybe more down the road in a couple of years (which they might have to pay extra for). This will have implications in trying to make analogue switch-off in two years. RTÉ need to proceed with the launch of DTT, but the Government should now be admitting that Ireland will not meet the previously announced 2012 deadline for ASO.

    Well, how do you sell DTT in this circumstances?

    In fairness you can do no worse than the UK tried when they gave us BBC Quirke!

    (That's an in-joke for those of us who have been following this saga as long as I have. Well, it has been running since 1998 and shows no sign of finishing yet)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    If it ends up being totally freeview than I hope to god we don't see +1 channels.
    Why?
    1.Because its a waste of space.
    2.Freeview is not encrypted, you can record from your tv, pc, ps3... the hardware is cheap, and competitive unlike sky..
    3.There is no added subscription fee unlike sky because there is no subscription...
    4.Just spend the 50euro's instead of lowering the amount of channels possible to broadcast for repeats an hour later, 90% of them you wont even watch :( PVR's are much more effeciant :D


    And as for british channels paying to broadcast on irish free to air service, I think its a hell of alot smarter than trying to sell bundle space(3 mux) with a 12 year contract.
    In fact if it were changed to a 4 year contract on a channel per channel basis(cheaper deal) then I bet 50euro's we would have at least 2 british broadcasters interested(and not the ****y game show channel variety either).
    And if not why not, maybe advertising will need to be tought out again with the consideration of non irish broadcasters broadcasting irish adverts on the channels they pay for a licence to broadcast in ireland over dtt.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    icdg wrote: »
    I had a long post written on this, but I keep getting logged out for some reason. So I'll sumarise...

    It know seems clear that in the current climate, Pay DTT is an unviable solution. If they couldn't make it work in the UK they won't make it work here. The only places pay-DTT has worked is where there is lower multichannel penetration already (or in the case of Sweden, been pushed to death by the Government...who own Boxer. So much so that they were nearly taken to the European Court of Justice over it).

    I wish OneVision well in their negotiations with the BCI, if they decide to re-open them. In the end I think they will come to the same conclusion as Boxer, that launching pay DTT in the middle of the recession is unviable.

    So where does that leave DTT in Ireland? First thing is, the Government is now faced with the unenviable job of trying to sell a DTT service which will have no significant advantage over analogue terrestrial. People will not see any advantage in switching if they are told there might be one or two more channels, maybe more down the road in a couple of years (which they might have to pay extra for). This will have implications in trying to make analogue switch-off in two years. RTÉ need to proceed with the launch of DTT, but the Government should now be admitting that Ireland will not meet the previously announced 2012 deadline for ASO.

    Well, how do you sell DTT in this circumstances?

    In fairness you can do no worse than the UK tried when they gave us BBC Quirke!

    (That's an in-joke for those of us who have been following this saga as long as I have. Well, it has been running since 1998 and shows no sign of finishing yet)



    I have to disagree, I think RTE will meet the deadline for FTA DTT no problem, if people don't see the point in switching from 4 channels with ****y reception to 4 channels with digital reception then thats their own fault.
    Once the coverage is there its being switched off, and why not? Postpone and face a fine from the EU becuase people couldnt be bothered using common sense, no thats not how it works, Its a set of technical requirements, not opinions. :/


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭netwhizkid


    42-17779534.jpg?size=572&uid=%7B8F6C455E-06ED-4753-AFD6-5E87EFF08A09%7D
    On Digital / ITV Digital was a failure with a 60million marketplace so how could boxer ever have a hope here, charging for channels FTA on Satelllite:rolleyes:. What we need is an Irish freeview with topup tv if necessary, give us the Free Irish channels and invite Uk channels onto it also, keep the Mpeg4 standard as it is technologically superior to MPEG2 and put premium channels on it also but with the whole thing owned and controlled by the same company preferably RTÉ at this stage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    tretle wrote: »
    And as for british channels paying to broadcast on irish free to air service, I think its a hell of alot smarter than trying to sell bundle space(3 mux) with a 12 year contract.

    It's also impossible. BBC, ITV, C4, Five can't and won't do it. Some-one hast to pay them to be on DTT. They are are already free on Satellite. Thus it can't happen.

    BTW for anyone interested in Dirac
    http://diracvideo.org/wiki/FAQ

    Dirac is much better than MPEG2, but not much if any different to MPEG4 H.264 AVC. It's supported by VLC and FFMPG, but maybe 5 years from any commercial domestic use in set boxes if ever. It's more likely to be an alternative to Flash and Silverlight for streaming as it's open source and free.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭rlogue


    The demise of Boxer won't lead to the end of the DTT platform in the Republic. RTÉ are obliged to migrate their exisiting channels to DTT as are TV3 and TG4.

    FTA DTT is the only way we can have free digital TV in Ireland thanks to RTÉ's secret deal with Sky so we can forget about cheap satellite transmission filling in the many analogue blackspots. TV3's scandalous neglect of Donegal and much of rural Ireland must be sorted out or else TV3 should lose their licence. DTT must have greater coverage than the exisiting analogue network. Irish people should not have to rely on a Sky sub or a deflector for Irish TV.

    The TV3-Setanta-Eircom consortium seem doomed to me. I can't think any of the partners are that cash rich that they could go ahead and launch a pay-TV service in this market. In my opinion the only viable DTT pay TV platform would be a discounted Sky Sports package. That's about the only driver for Pay TV apart from relaying the UK channels.

    From my time inside the BBC there is no way the Beeb or any other UK terrestrial broadcaster would be prepared to offer their channels for free to an overseas broadcaster. So those channels have to be paid for too.

    What options are available?

    I bet there'll be a merger between the TV3/Setanta/Eircom and the RTE/UPC consortiums. It makes no sense for the remaining two bidders for the DTT licence to be at loggerheads. Not in this economic climate.

    A two tier package should be made available. The basic pack would have the Irish channels plus the UK terrestrials including BBC HD. The premium pack would be Setanta plus Sky Sports. The premium pack would have to be VERY competitively priced as a cheaper alternative to satellite.

    Will this happen? If all the parties have any sense it might.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,705 ✭✭✭green123


    keith99 wrote: »

    I got freesat, euro satellite dish and a outdoor tv aerial, so most of the sport on setanta and sky I can watch for free

    can you tell me how to get sky sports free ?

    you cant get sky sports on freesat or with an aerial.

    so are you getting it from this euro satellite ?


  • Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No loss, I wouldn't of went for it anyway, I pay enough for my TV licence and I sure as hell wasn't going to pay Boxer money, I'll go FTA.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 204 ✭✭dave-higgz


    I know the 4 multiplexes (6 I believe after ASO) are looking quite bare now with just 4 channels definite and with some planned but are we thinking ahead for the future enough??
    Boxer's plans squeezed a bunch of SD channels onto the platform with no room for HD. Every channel will be HD in the next decade and people will expect the high quality. Our DTT service needs to provide that and so a big space must be left for free Irish HD channels and extras such as aertel etc. Only a small part of the spectrum should be left for premium channels and all those will need to be in HD to compete in future markets.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 59 ✭✭tretle


    These quotes are taken from an RTE document entitled "Letter in Digital Switchover" written in August 2007 by Conor Hayes, RTE's Chief Financial Officer.
    So what the hell happened?


    RTE's original plan to Offer BBC1 and BBC2 on free to air:

    The political and religious landscape of NI, and the ongoing peace process, allied to the traditional reliance on the analogue terrestrial television transmission network based in the Republic of Ireland, poses a key challenge for DTT in Ireland - North and South.
    In particular it may be both necessary and opportune to arrive at some form of reciprocal cross-border arrangement, politically or otherwise, which would allow a degree of synchronization between DTT in both parts of the island of Ireland.
    Such co-operation might perhaps be achieved by ensuring that the primary Public Service Broadcasters on both sides of the Border are carried on a reciprocal, even-handed basis in each territory such that RTE1 and RTE2 are carried on Freeview in NI with BBC1 and BBC2 being carried on a (nil or matching cost) reciprocal basis on DTT in the Republic of Ireland

    RTE's aspirations for an Irish DTT Platform
    RTE desires to see the implementation and rollout of an efficient DTT platform in Ireland to replace the current analogue television transmission service. RTE believes that this is the best means of facilitating analogue switch-off and of ensuring the continued delivery and viability of Public Service Broadcasting to the greatest number of people in Ireland in a digital era.

    In line with that overall goal RTE would therefore like to see an Irish DTT platform emerge which has the following broad characteristics:

    • Majority of its capacity is dedicated to FTA channels;
    • Carries all of the existing Irish national terrestrial channels;
    • Carries most of the 'traditional' UK Terrestrial channels;
    • MUXES are rolled-out in accordance with a co-ordinated and synchronized plan;
    • Is an integrated and operationally efficient delivery mechanism;
    • Carries national radio channels and has text interactive capability;
    • Is HD enabled;
    • Has initial coverage of 90%+ of the population from 13 sites with subsequent expansion;
    • Facilitates the synchronization and reciprocation with DTT services in NI;
    • Facilitates the adoption of an agreed irish regulated EPG;
    • The DTT transmission and DTT multiplexing activities are regulated in Ireland;
    • Heavily promoted and marketed by Government and by all stakeholders.

    Advertising of Ireland the interest of British broadcasters:
    The Irish market for television advertising is highly competitive. Currently we estimate that some 17 television channels sell television advertising ratings in respect of the Irish market.
    The increasing number of channels selling television advertising is primarily driven by the greater number of UK based channels now sell marginal Irish 'opt-out advertising.

    So essentially theres my freaking proof right there, 17 british channels invest in Irish advertising already. Which roughly interprets to them finding our country lucrative in terms of advertising revenue. Which in turn means they want more viewers from Ireland.
    So I will disagree with the neigh-sayers here, the bulk contract didnt work in england and it wont work in Ireland. We need to sell channel by channel contracts and reduce the contract to 4 years like the british freeview system instead of 12 like our current joke of a system that boxer nearly got and that the BCI are throwing around again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,314 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    tretle wrote: »
    We need to sell channel by channel contracts and reduce the contract to 4 years like the british freeview system instead of 12 like our current joke of a system that boxer nearly got and that the BCI are throwing around again.

    Just to correct you again, the UK mux licences are issued for 12 years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭ynotdu


    I have read every post so excuse me if i dont mention by name.

    love the idea of an irish film tv channel,doubt it would survive as a stand alone though so agree with the poster who said add euronews(or simulor)setanta sports news,archive rte shows,prime time shows timeshifted&all the other good ideas it would be an awesome channel!

    the movie section could be along the lines of brit shorts and encourage budding Irish filmakers to send in their efforts.

    also love the idea that say sky sports could be paid for without taking on crap channels ya dont want.

    loads of great ideas,the best of them merged and proposed as a buisness model would i feel gain backing finance wise.

    why does.nt, somebody here with buisness skills gather the best ideas together from this thread and try a submission to regulators,broadcastors and banks(:mad:) I think many of the ideas posted here could actually achieve two very popular channels as well as providing plenty of coverage of Irish culture,arts,crafts,music&more.
    GO for it somebody! I for one want such a powerful mediam, as tv to keep Irelands many great aspects alive and thriving,our core values continued and passed on,not hidden under a bushel.!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,067 ✭✭✭slegs


    icdg wrote: »
    I had a long post written on this, but I keep getting logged out for some reason. So I'll sumarise...

    It know seems clear that in the current climate, Pay DTT is an unviable solution. If they couldn't make it work in the UK they won't make it work here. The only places pay-DTT has worked is where there is lower multichannel penetration already (or in the case of Sweden, been pushed to death by the Government...who own Boxer. So much so that they were nearly taken to the European Court of Justice over it).

    I wish OneVision well in their negotiations with the BCI, if they decide to re-open them. In the end I think they will come to the same conclusion as Boxer, that launching pay DTT in the middle of the recession is unviable.

    So where does that leave DTT in Ireland? First thing is, the Government is now faced with the unenviable job of trying to sell a DTT service which will have no significant advantage over analogue terrestrial. People will not see any advantage in switching if they are told there might be one or two more channels, maybe more down the road in a couple of years (which they might have to pay extra for). This will have implications in trying to make analogue switch-off in two years. RTÉ need to proceed with the launch of DTT, but the Government should now be admitting that Ireland will not meet the previously announced 2012 deadline for ASO.

    Well, how do you sell DTT in this circumstances?

    In fairness you can do no worse than the UK tried when they gave us BBC Quirke!

    (That's an in-joke for those of us who have been following this saga as long as I have. Well, it has been running since 1998 and shows no sign of finishing yet)

    The picture quality, ability to digitally record and EPG will be make the switch worth it for most people as long as STB's are affordable


This discussion has been closed.
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