DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

Bog Butter

BigMoose wrote: »

I've read this forum all the way though and have found it interesting, but the threat of a yellow card for having an opinion is more than I can resist. You are all completely ignoring the fact that there will not be more channels than fit in mpeg2 and yet there are thousands/hundreds of thousands of mpeg2 only built in TVs already sold. Like it or not, most of the electrical retailers here are UK owned so economies of scale state that UK popular equipment will be cheaper here than whatever they use in France or anywhere else. What is the point of DTT in Ireland? To replace the 4 analog channels with at least 4 digital ones......

The decision to move from analogue to DTT here in Ireland is not soly an Irish decision; it is encouraged by Europe. I think you are ignoring the wider picture. The benifits of digitisation lie beyond our viewing pleasure.

http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l24223a.htm

The advantages of the switchover process

Aside from providing better picture and sound quality, the switchover to digital broadcasting offers clear advantages for both consumers and operators.

These advantages stem from the fact that it possible to process and compress digital data in a more efficient manner than was the case for analogue signals.

Consumer benefits from digital television compared with analogue television are as follows:

a wider choice of programmes from a greater number of channels and radio stations;
improved flexibility of use thanks to better portable and mobile reception;
services that are more interactive thanks to the improvement in IT services;
the potential to contribute to serving the specific needs of the elderly or disabled by providing them with services such as better subtitling, audio commentaries or signing;
lower sale prices for digital receivers and integrated television receivers; Price is increasingly becoming less of a barrier to acquiring such equipment.

For operators, achieving the advantages of switching over from analogue to digital television presupposes the following:

lower transmission costs in the future. The Commission has noted an upward trend for the market share and the supply of digital broadcasting. For example, in the United Kingdom, the market share for digital broadcasting has already reached 57%. The Commission estimates that by the start of 2010, Europe will mainly have gone over to digital broadcasting.
freeing up additional frequencies. The available space will make it possible to reuse parts of the radio frequency spectrum (radio spectrum) for new radio broadcasting services that incorporate the advantages of digital and convergent services combining features of mobile telephony and terrestrial broadcasting.
The Commission is encouraging national competition authorities to take action to ensure that the dominant firms on the market respect the provisions of the Framework Directive of March 2002 on a common regulatory framework for electronic communications services and networks.

ynotdu

lot of snobby stuff around various threads about 3e,mostly i dont watch it but thats down to my taste,if it has no audience it wont survive anyway!
can anybody truely say it is worse/better than skys flagship channel sky 1?
sky 1 with all its dough from bsb seems like it makes even less of an effort than 3e!

Elmo

tretle wrote: »

As for TV3, the more I research it the more slack I want to give them, yes they recieve monenr ey from advertising but RTE recieve money for advertising (143 million in 2006) and the tv licence (58 million). They ended up with a net surplus of 10million by the end of the year. Its worth notinig that the dcenr took in 206million from the tv licence which kind of makes you wonder wher the remaining 149 million went.

RTÉ are a very large company and have serveral different departments. RTÉ Radio and TV plus their Music groups, 10% goes to TG4 (through News) and another 5% to independent producers through the BCI on to TV3 at times. Oh and then they have to pay for DAB and DTT.

TV3 earn 60,000,000 in advertising in 2007 if you read One Visions application you could have found that out and they also put it in their MORE FM application a few month previous to the DTT licence application.

Your figures for RTÉs revenues are way off (TOO LITTLE) and have to be divided between TV, Radio, Networks, Music Groups and other Grants.

I doubt that TV3 make the same from advertising that RTE do as RTE have a higer viewership due to the amount of money they have to produce Irish shows and needlesly upgrade newsrooms. RTE also noted that without the extra revenue comming from the tv licence they would be in trouble, maybe being put in a situation where they can no longer produce as many irish shows and end up in a situation like TV3.

TV3 have 11% of the audience the same as RTÉ TWO, while RTÉ ONE has 25% (for the full day). TV3 spend 15million on Irish productions (and other costs) and have a deal with ITV until 2013 for their productions. TV3 made a profit of at least 10,000,000 in 2007 also. They only had one channel to fund, 3E has little funding and is quite cheap to produce.

I kind of feel bad for TV3 as they cannot afford to produce more home content, because they do not make enough money from advertising but they also cannot make enough money from advertising without more irish content.

You should not, TV3 spend their money on bought in programming and care little for Irish programming. In 2001 they could have up the anti when they had 15% of the audience plus Coronation Street and Emmerdale, they did produce The Dunphy Show and you will be surprise to hear it did quite well for a new show having 250,000 per episode up against The Late Late Show, of course they used it as a scapegoat not to make any more TV. And again they have had plenty of Irish Productions that have done realitively well often gaining more then 200,000 viewers which is excelent for TV3 bar Coronation Street and Emmerdale they don't get over 160,000 viewers. Xfactor did well for them but they did well with an Irish production called The Apprentice. They could increase their Irish output with the help of their ITV content and gain a far bigger audience if they wanted. Remember they don't have the commitment that RTÉ have.

TV3 also stated in the mission statement for onevision that they are far more interested in fta and I assume they are responsible for the idea of offering the irish people an extra 6 fta channels to mull over, most likely offering good deals to that group of broadcasters which I spoke of before, remember... the ones that see irish fta as a good form of revenue :P

No you read that wrong what they said in onevision is they hoped for 2 extra free channels and but at least the 4 main current ones. the 2 extra ones are the Film and Oirechtas channels. Channel 6, 3Xpose and 3Today are all part of their 10 euro package not free to air.

I dont know if this should be the place to talk of new irish startups to create competition in the irish market but part of onevisions mission statement was to ease these kind of startups entering the market so thats cool in my opinion. Unfortunately allot of the documents I read on this are long and image based so no text search for finding relevent quotes so I am not going to spend hours doing so but running a new irish channel would be expensive, very very very expensive...... SO expensive you would need to win the euromillions several times to be in with a chance and even then you have a chance of liquidating

That depends on what you are looking at as a start up you if you are going to do a TV3 or a Channel 6 and hope to god you reach 3% by year 3 then your bound to fail. But lets face it there is a market for quality Irish TV even if TV3 don't want to admit it, lack of confidence in Irish producers.

Im going to judge tv3 from now on based on their intentions and capability to achieve goals rather than comparing them to RTE as I find that quite unfair, in the end money does matter because without it taking chances could cost you everything

TV3 will never take chances so you don't have to worry but don't go around thinking that TV3 have nothing. They have entered a recession with little capital i.e. programming that they can sell. The rely only on advertising and that is reducing. If they had spent a little amount of time developing a few shows they could have 20% of the audience and earning 80,000,000 a year but that takes guts. As I said no entrapenural spirit. TV3 where given a license to print money and they are doing it very well.

tretle

Elmo wrote: »

RTÉ are a very large company and have serveral different departments. RTÉ Radio and TV plus their Music groups, 10% goes to TG4 (through News) and another 5% to independent producers through the BCI on to TV3 at times. Oh and then they have to pay for DAB and DTT.

TV3 earn 60,000,000 in advertising in 2007 if you read One Visions application you could have found that out and they also put it in their MORE FM application a few month previous to the DTT licence application.

Your figures for RTÉs revenues are way off (TOO LITTLE) and have to be divided between TV, Radio, Networks, Music Groups and other Grants.



TV3 have 11% of the audience the same as RTÉ TWO, while RTÉ ONE has 25% (for the full day). TV3 spend 15million on Irish productions (and other costs) and have a deal with ITV until 2013 for their productions. TV3 made a profit of at least 10,000,000 in 2007 also. They only had one channel to fund, 3E has little funding and is quite cheap to produce.



You should not, TV3 spend their money on bought in programming and care little for Irish programming. In 2001 they could have up the anti when they had 15% of the audience plus Coronation Street and Emmerdale, they did produce The Dunphy Show and you will be surprise to hear it did quite well for a new show having 250,000 per episode up against The Late Late Show, of course they used it as a scapegoat not to make any more TV. And again they have had plenty of Irish Productions that have done realitively well often gaining more then 200,000 viewers which is excelent for TV3 bar Coronation Street and Emmerdale they don't get over 160,000 viewers. Xfactor did well for them but they did well with an Irish production called The Apprentice. They could increase their Irish output with the help of their ITV content and gain a far bigger audience if they wanted. Remember they don't have the commitment that RTÉ have.



No you read that wrong what they said in onevision is they hoped for 2 extra free channels and but at least the 4 main current ones. the 2 extra ones are the Film and Oirechtas channels. Channel 6, 3Xpose and 3Today are all part of their 10 euro package not free to air.



That depends on what you are looking at as a start up you if you are going to do a TV3 or a Channel 6 and hope to god you reach 3% by year 3 then your bound to fail. But lets face it there is a market for quality Irish TV even if TV3 don't want to admit it, lack of confidence in Irish producers.



TV3 will never take chances so you don't have to worry but don't go around thinking that TV3 have nothing. They have entered a recession with little capital i.e. programming that they can sell. The rely only on advertising and that is reducing. If they had spent a little amount of time developing a few shows they could have 20% of the audience and earning 80,000,000 a year but that takes guts. As I said no entrapenural spirit. TV3 where given a license to print money and they are doing it very well.

One liner quote from the mission statement which makes me wonder about your validity in this argument, why Is it no-one else seems to actually quote the factual public information. And yes tv3 make 60 million a year, still substantially less then rte and tv3 are operating two channels now too. As for profits of tv3, please quote the source which states that they make annual profits of 10million. Or better yet, don't tell me I read things wrong without actually proving so with facts.

By simply plugging in all equipment the viewer will be able to access the four FTA Irish
channels plus six or more FTA that will be provided by OneVision.

I can see now how I read that incorrectly and it really means 2 extra channels........... oh wait I cant

Elmo

tretle wrote: »

One liner quote from the mission statement which makes me wonder about your validity in this argument, why Is it no-one else seems to actually quote the factual public information. And yes tv3 make 60 million a year, still substantially less then rte and tv3 are operating two channels now too. As for profits of tv3, please quote the source which states that they make annual profits of 10million. Or better yet, don't tell me I read things wrong without actually proving so with facts.

Look at RTE annual statement. The Head of TV at RTÉ pointed out that TV3 had made close to 20,000,000 (in profit). I didn't want to quote him as I feel this statement both bias and generous, so I will go with 10,000,000.

Facts: - (Check out RTÉs annually reports to verify).

1. RTÉ spend 25,000,000 on Imports each year, amounting to 11,000 hours of TV. This is equal to around 2000euro per hour of TV.
2. TV3 have a deal with ITV until 2013, this has been stated in the newspapers, they still have a good deal with their former Owners (I wouldn't expect anything less).
3. You cann't compare 3e to RTÉ TWO. 3e is a new station, it doesn't provide children's programming and it has no original Irish programming of its own. It buys in Pay TV rights, reducing costs, and they don't have as much of an audience and TV3 would have been better of spending 10,000,000 on an Irish Soap Opera.
4. TV3 own 22% of Setanta Sport.
5. TV3 must have 30% Irish content, plus its imports at 2000 euro. I have done the maths before on boards I amn't doing them again and It is far too late.
6. RTÉ earn 195.7m in licence fee revenue, 5% to BCI = 8mill, 5% to TG4 another 8mill, 20% set aside for independent producers = 40mil, 7.1% to RnaG no advertising on RnaG = 14mill, 8% to performing groups = 16mill. The rest over to RTE ONE, TWO, Radio One and Lyric FM. (The are only required to give 20% but in actual fact they give more).
7. RTÉ earn 245.5 mill from advertising on RTE ONE, TWO, Lyric, 2fm, Radio One. TV3 earn 60mill from one channel alone and spend 40mill (the station isn't worth more then 40mill), but I will give them the benifit of the doubt and hope that they start paying for the NSO or set up a choir or some kind, or some children's programming.

TV3 need to start using their money for content. If they take up DTT they basically forget Irish programming.

I am sorry if I think an Independent national broadcaster should start producing something other than News and Life style shows, something for prime time. But TV3 know it is easier at 10% then at 20%. Money Money Money.

Look I have read through news reports, annual reports, licensing applications etc etc I have extensive knowledge in this area. <<< That sound patronizing sorry!

Also RTÉ TWO has 6 hours of programming without advertising, pre-school shows on Den Tots.

Also TV ratings here I know it is from me but it is important you know. find them on www.medialive.ie you will need to register but it is free.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=259312&page=3

Red Sleeping Beauty

I'm not really up to date with all the techno stuff but as I understood it all 4 channels had to be broadcast digitally as the analogue signal's being switched off ? And you can't have people paying their license fee and then having to ring up NTL/UPC or Sky to see the Late Late.

Boxer was the company tasked with getting the Digital Terrestrial Television into homes and they've failed now.

But what's going to happen ? You can't be charging people a fee (on top of the license fee) to see RTE in digital. UK freeview boxes have some ads attached to their menus so I'm assuming that's one avenue ? It'd be awful if any of the 4 channels became even more advertising based (TV3 show a half hr of ads during a film and RTE's "home grown" shows like Late Late, Tubridy, Seoige are shill shows).


I'd fancy an RTE Archive channel though - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054907769

And also a station to show Irish films (or any film that the Irish Film Board has a penny in!). Film 4 show about 4 films a night I think, I'm sure there's enough there ?

More Music

Alan Rouge: But what's going to happen ? You can't be charging people a fee (on top of the license fee) to see RTE in digital.

That was never the case and won't be. RTE have their own independant DTT Mux which they are obliged to provide on a non subscription basis.

RTE's only involvment in the Boxer fiasco was to supply transmitters and facilities.

Andy454

Watty no need to shout - I will make this my last post...

I've lost all interest in irish DTT now (and posting on these boards for that matter!) - I forgot, I actually hate irish tv - too much doom and gloom (tv3's awful take on E! programming included).

-I much preferred when my sky planner started at 106 sky one and I personally resented terrestrial broadcasters eating up bandwidth on already overcrowded satellite transponders. I had hoped if DTT was a success, rte would eventually leave the satellite market!

The best days in tv are long gone, days with a 64 channel reciever, when you did your best to get rid of the speckalies with a 0.8db lnb and CMT was all the rage!

I would like to know however the exact reasons for Boxers sudden run out the door!

Perhaps they saw the heavily pirated cable tv network - sky was even loosing subscribers!

Perhaps they saw the expense at which it would cost to roll out a national network of stbs, something which has crippled many providers from the outset, ondigital, itvdigital, kirch media etc etc - getting credit for offering freebies is tough work!

Perhaps RTENL's transmission charges were acutally higher than broadcasting to the collective world outside Ireland via 1 mile radius repeaters!

I somehow doubt given the number of tv addicts in this country that it was through lack of viewers!

I'd bet money that with all the hype over 3D tv, boxer realised that the 2D flatness of rte presenters would never be compatible with any digital platform..

signing off...

watty

Alan Rouge wrote: »

I'm not really up to date with all the techno stuff but as I understood it all 4 channels had to be broadcast digitally as the analogue signal's being switched off ? And you can't have people paying their license fee and then having to ring up NTL/UPC or Sky to see the Late Late.

Boxer was the company tasked with getting the Digital Terrestrial Television into homes and they've failed now.

But what's going to happen ? You can't be charging people a fee (on top of the license fee) to see RTE in digital.

NO!

Boxer was an Add-On on top of basic Digital TV, the free Channels. They where not tasked with "getting DTT into peoples' homes".

The free part is still going ahead. Initially it will be 4 channels, but was always envisaged as being more channels (Oireachtas TV was set up years ago to feed it, RTE News24, an Irish Film and an Eduction channel have been mooted).

The approaches have been:
1) ALL RTE run, with Pay channels charged by RTE (up to 1999)
2) It's TV to run pay DTT, but the basic channels free (no viable business model or finance, bid collapsed in 2001). No Bid was accepted.
3) Public Service Mux for whatever number of free channels fit on it, run by RTE, Could easily have 10 channels eventually. PLUS three Mux run by a PayTV company. The Pay TV bid awarded to Boxer in 2008 and withdrawn April 2009 by Boxer.

Less than 30% of people don't have payTV. They probably don't want Pay TV. Over 70% have Sky or UPC and some both. An unknown number of people have Freeview (UK Terrestrial Digital), maybe < 5%. An unknown number of people have Freesat/FTA satellite or Mainland European Satellite TV (maybe > 10%).

So any DTT pay TV operator has a TINY market and is unattractive:
* For Pay TV, Cable or Satellite offers ten times the choice, DTT has very small channel capacity
* RTE, TG4, TV3 and some others will be free on DTT anyway.
* Over 80% of the rest of viewers interest is free on Satellite, under €70 once off for DIY, or about €200 installed.

NO-ONE can succeed at Irish Terrestrial DTT pay TV, given the lead of UPC/SKy, small number of channels etc. Pay DTT didn't work as a business model in UK.

Capt'n Midnight

IF a subscription type DTT scheme is launched , how deep into their pockets will SKY and UPC go with special offers to try to kill it at birth ?

The SKY offers in the UK are fairly low at the moment and if you cancel in month 11 you get to keep the freesat AND you can sign up for one month each December to get the christmas films.

Can't wait for DTT to take off, but haven't seen an MPEG4 unit at the throwaway prices you see for the older standard yet, so haven't done any testing at all.

Capt'n Midnight

Alan Rouge wrote:

RTE's "home grown" shows like Late Late, Tubridy, Seoige are shill shows).?

All celebrity chat show guests are there to promote their book, film, play etc. And it wouldn't be the same if there wasn't one for everyone in the audiance. ( If Gaybo hadn't started that they would probably spend 5 minutes on a raffle for 7 of them or something )

STB

Andy454 wrote: »

I've lost all interest in irish DTT now (and posting on these boards for that matter!) - I forgot, I actually hate irish tv - too much doom and gloom....... blah blah blah blah...........

-I much preferred when my sky planner started at 106 sky one and I personally resented terrestrial broadcasters eating up bandwidth on already overcrowded satellite transponders. I had hoped if DTT was a success, rte would eventually leave the satellite market!

....... blah blah blah blah...........

I'd bet money that with all the hype over 3D tv, boxer realised that the 2D flatness of rte presenters would never be compatible with any digital platform..

Not everyone is a slave to Mr Murdoch. Most people will probably get by with a combination of free dtt and free satelitte.

Andy as a matter of interest, do you reside in the country ? You seem to have more of an issue with irish standard of presentation from your posts.

Some of the quality of Irish TV programming is actually quite high. For example, most Irish people do not tune to the BBC for their news.

You may not appreciate that DTT will offered regardless of the involvemnt of a commercial organisation but it wont be mandatory viewing for all!

mjsmyth

Andy454 wrote: »

-I much preferred when my sky planner started at 106 sky one and I personally resented terrestrial broadcasters eating up bandwidth on already overcrowded satellite transponders.

I don't know where you get the idea that there is a lack of space up there in the sky for channels.....

Yes there are issues with space on Astra 2D, but since RTE do not boradcast on 2D, then it has nothing whatsover to do with them.

You seem to think that it is a bad idea for the Irish channels to be on satellite, but not the British ones. Why is that??

DTT, just like in the UK, will not cover the entire country. Neither will cable and not all will be able to receive satellite. Whilst I resent the fact that I would have to pay to receive RTE on satellite, I do see the need for it there.

As for the heavily pirated cable network, well UPC are currently upgrading their service to stamp out the piracy. They are also taking action through the courts.

One would imagine that Boxer have finally done the sums and found out just how hard it would be to make money out of Irish DTT, especially now in the current climate.

watty

/me puts tin foil hat on...

there is also the fact that some companies some of the time bid to win licences they NEVER intend to deploy...

It can look better with investors or the market if you can say "look at all these growth opportunities we have and look how brilliant the regulators think we are"

watty

TV3 or RTE won't be running any new free channels or PayTV this year or next year

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/stations-struggle-after-ad-rates-fall-by-38pc-1716750.html

tretle

watty wrote: »

/me puts tin foil hat on...

there is also the fact that some companies some of the time bid to win licences they NEVER intend to deploy...

It can look better with investors or the market if you can say "look at all these growth opportunities we have and look how brilliant the regulators think we are"

I see you miss irc commands as much as I do while on forums :P lol

Apogee

Elmo wrote: »

There are more on the Entry level, I have select but I am sure the Basic package has more music channels then just MTV, it definitely has EuroNews, perhaps some other Discovery Channels (Not sure about the Nat Geographic Channel).

That's incorrect.
http://www.upc.ie/television/digitaltv/value

tretle

I hope Onevision get it, their vision of adding the 6 extra channels to the current 4 available for free to air is a good one.

I also think that their pricing when compared with UPC is much better

It would be direct competition for UPC and sky.

They would be focusing on dtt, UPC would be focusing on mmds, cable and dtt.

watty

Onevision are being offered it. But Industry experts will be surprised if they take up on the offer. If they do, it will go bust.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

IF a subscription type DTT scheme is launched , how deep into their pockets will SKY and UPC go with special offers to try to kill it at birth ?

The SKY offers in the UK are fairly low at the moment and if you cancel in month 11 you get to keep the freesat AND you can sign up for one month each December to get the christmas films.

Can't wait for DTT to take off, but haven't seen an MPEG4 unit at the throwaway prices you see for the older standard yet, so haven't done any testing at all.

Do Onevision know this ? Are they aware that NTL UPC and Sky can (and probably will as you say) lower their prices so that everyone's with them and no one's on DTT if they've to pay for it ?
Can the govt. pass any legislation preventing them from doing that ?

watty wrote: »

NO!

Boxer was an Add-On on top of basic Digital TV, the free Channels. They where not tasked with "getting DTT into peoples' homes".

The free part is still going ahead. Initially it will be 4 channels, but was always envisaged as being more channels (Oireachtas TV was set up years ago to feed it, RTE News24, an Irish Film and an Eduction channel have been mooted).

The approaches have been:
1) ALL RTE run, with Pay channels charged by RTE (up to 1999)
2) It's TV to run pay DTT, but the basic channels free (no viable business model or finance, bid collapsed in 2001). No Bid was accepted.
3) Public Service Mux for whatever number of free channels fit on it, run by RTE, Could easily have 10 channels eventually. PLUS three Mux run by a PayTV company. The Pay TV bid awarded to Boxer in 2008 and withdrawn April 2009 by Boxer.

Less than 30% of people don't have payTV. They probably don't want Pay TV. Over 70% have Sky or UPC and some both. An unknown number of people have Freeview (UK Terrestrial Digital), maybe < 5%. An unknown number of people have Freesat/FTA satellite or Mainland European Satellite TV (maybe > 10%).

So any DTT pay TV operator has a TINY market and is unattractive:
* For Pay TV, Cable or Satellite offers ten times the choice, DTT has very small channel capacity
* RTE, TG4, TV3 and some others will be free on DTT anyway.
* Over 80% of the rest of viewers interest is free on Satellite, under €70 once off for DIY, or about €200 installed.

NO-ONE can succeed at Irish Terrestrial DTT pay TV, given the lead of UPC/SKy, small number of channels etc. Pay DTT didn't work as a business model in UK.

Thanks for the summary and sorry for not being full up to date. Now I am

Btw, how is RTE going to get into homes on digital (once the analogue is switched off) ? Would people need to buy digital recievers (with a dish ?) or would they be free?

I know so little about all this . I understand things in basic terms though : everyone has to pay a license fee and then to get your stations for that fee you just tune the channels in on your telly with an aerial (that's usually supplied with the telly).

watty

DTT = Digitial TERRESTRIAL TV a.k.a DVB-t

In most cases existing TVs will need a set box (under €40 before analogue turned off). You use existing TV aerial, but in some places an indoor aerial will work where before you needed an outdoor aerial (Parts of Nrth Dublin from ThreeRock and parts of Limerick from WoodCock).

New TVs will have the MPEG4 DTT tuner built in. But the advantage of a set box is Sky+/Tivo style PVR (Personal Video Recorder, under €150 soon) to replace VHS or DVD/HD recorder. Dual Tuners so you can watch one channel and record another. Pause live TV when door or phone rings. Automatically record series. Schedule recordings via 1 week screen program guide.

The PVR aspect is the biggest advance, not the digital or Widescreen feature. Since the PVR records internally inside the setbox to Hard disk ( up to 60 hrs or more) the digital data from the tuner direct without decoding, playback quality is "live" TV quality. No difference.

The service will allow adding HD copies of the channels later, so buying an HD PVR setbox may be an idea even if you don't have HDTV (it will output ordinary TV too) and there are no HD channels initally.
Regular Digital TV is 720 x576 pixels and HD is 1920x1080 pixels. The HD setbox can convert up for an HDTV or convert down for an ordinary TV (CRT or flat kind).

Dish is needed only for Pay TV (Sky) or Free satellite UK TV. Not for free Irish TV.

The service may not officially launch till late Autumn 2009 or even December 2009. Analogue may continue till 2014 or even 2017 in some south western areas.

Elmo

Apogee wrote: »

That's incorrect.
http://www.upc.ie/television/digitaltv/value

I have select and have far more channels than

http://www.upc.ie/television/digitaltv/select/

marclt

watty wrote: »

DTT = Digitial TERRESTRIAL TV a.k.a DVB-t

The service may not officially launch till late Autumn 2009 or even December 2009. Analogue may continue till 2014 or even 2017 in some south western areas.

I think we're going to come under pressure if moves aren't made to switch off Analogue as close to the 2012 date. DAB is being restricted in parts of the UK due to the use of VHF of tv, so pressure may be exerted. The understanding is that these will go by 2012 for various reasons.

What we need is some idea of the process of switchover (regardless of whether there is any commercial involvement). Information needs to be provided not just for the industry but consumers so that people aren't being hoodwinked into buying the wrong type of technology.

The ideal situation would be for RTE/the Govt./consumer agencies (whoever)to promote irish dtt in the east/south east first where UK tv overspill is high. I am concerned that come September, viewers with aerials pointing to preseli - will go blank, more people will buy free sat equipment (some being ripped off) which will impact on any irish dtt service.

Red Sleeping Beauty

The South East can get the UK's DTT reception ? :eek:

watty

Sat gear for FTA doesn't impact on DTT, as it does not give RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4.

Some places on east, border, and South east can get UK terrestrial Digital (DTT / DVb-t /Freeview). After UK ASO the power will be increased (esp Brougher /Strabane?) and more people will be able to get it. But it's much easier to get satellite (nationwide) and it has almost all the freeview channels plus some others free. A 60cm dish for Freesat can be less obtrusive than large yagi or yagi array + mast needed for UK Freeview (DTT).

mrdtv

marclt wrote: »

I think we're going to come under pressure if moves aren't made to switch off Analogue as close to the 2012 date. DAB is being restricted in parts of the UK due to the use of VHF of tv, so pressure may be exerted. The understanding is that these will go by 2012 for various reasons.

What we need is some idea of the process of switchover (regardless of whether there is any commercial involvement). Information needs to be provided not just for the industry but consumers so that people aren't being hoodwinked into buying the wrong type of technology.

The ideal situation would be for RTE/the Govt./consumer agencies (whoever)to promote irish dtt in the east/south east first where UK tv overspill is high. I am concerned that come September, viewers with aerials pointing to preseli - will go blank, more people will buy free sat equipment (some being ripped off) which will impact on any irish dtt service.

The high power Welsh signals may work: it will depend on what happens In Ireland. And Freesat will be a bomb-proof all weather solution.... It will be very interesting to test Preseli, Balen-Plwyf and Arfon post DSO.

tretle

watty wrote: »

TV3 or RTE won't be running any new free channels or PayTV this year or next year

http://www.independent.ie/business/media/stations-struggle-after-ad-rates-fall-by-38pc-1716750.html

I agree, I don't think that they will introduce any new channels with a new ip/content but at the same time I think that there is a possibility that they will launch RTE news now. They already have an iptv version launched so it makes sense to me. I would say that would be a mixture of oirachteas,prime time and news reports. Though I could be wrong.

And if Onevision do by some chance make it in I would support them. If they are serious about the mux dedicated to fta I would feel obliged to support them for being the only comercial group which are actually trying to give people a good fta service.

As for what channels they will offer over free to air, well by reading the document it seems like TV3 would be moved to the onevision mux so they wouldnt be getting a freebie from rte anymore to broadcast over the rtenl mux(Elmo - you would most likely like this ).

So that would leave 3 spaces free on the rtenl mux and 5 spaces on the Onevision fta mux. I think its fair to think that 3e is one of the channels which would be on the fta Onevision mux seeing as TV3 are affialiated with Onevision and that TV3 stated they are more interested in fta broadcasts than the pay to view ones(setanta would run that) eircom would run billing and interactive services.

I don't think that having UPC run it would be a good thing. They already have mmds and cable, and I dont think their prices are competitive at the moment, even to sky.
And lastly they have no interest in the fta service from what I have heard.

Apogee

Elmo wrote: »

I have select and have far more channels than

http://www.upc.ie/television/digitaltv/select/

So you're assuming that just because you happen to have more channels on the Select package, then anyone on the Value package will also have additional channels not actually listed on the UPC site?

watty

Not all places are the same. But UPC are "harmonising" it.

Elmo

Apogee wrote: »

So you're assuming that just because you happen to have more channels on the Select package, then anyone on the Value package will also have additional channels not actually listed on the UPC site?

I am assuming that UPC's site is only pointing out some of the channels available.

UPC Site:

The number of channels per pack may vary depending on your geographical location.

http://www.upc.ie/television/prices/

Go Digital Value Go Digital Select Go Digital Max ~
Number of channels* Over 60 Over 100 Over 130
Monthly Offer Price € 20.00 € 27.00 € 33.50