Ferguson vs Benitez thread

elshambo · 20-04-2009 04:24PM

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry Elshambo didn't read past that.

good!

Mr Alan · 20-04-2009 04:25PM

Boggles wrote: »

Come on Alan even you have to admit making a manager that has delivered zero in 3 years one of the highest paid in world football is baffling?

God you just make stuff up :rolleyes:

first off, we won the FA cup 3 years ago & the Champions League the season before.

second Rafa was about the 6th highest paid manager in the PL before his contract renewal, getting paid less than Redknapp & Moyes so lets get rid of the Rafa is overpaid jibe you have invented.

so should Moyes be sacked by Everton? Wenger from Arsenal? should Ferguson have been sacked from Utd in one of the 7 years before he won a league title?

monkey9 · 20-04-2009 04:26PM

Boggles wrote: »

Thats the thing listening to the majority of Scouse fans you'd think that success was reversed.

Come on Alan even you have to admit making a manager that has delivered zero in 3 years one of the highest paid in world football is baffling?

Are you baffled that Arsenal still employ Wenger, the poor deluded fools that they are. The just have no vision, that club!!

Boggles · 20-04-2009 04:27PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

God you just make stuff up :rolleyes:

first off, we won the FA cup 3 years ago & the Champions League the season before.

Sorry Alan I ment seasons, but I suspect you kinda new that.

Nothing, Zip, Zero in 3 seasons, that better?

Mr Alan wrote: »

second Rafa was about the 6th highest paid manager in the PL before his contract renewal, getting paid less than Redknapp & Moyes so lets get rid of the Rafa is overpaid jibe you have invented.

Where is he now on that chart?

Boggles · 20-04-2009 04:27PM

monkey9 wrote: »

Are you baffled that Arsenal still employ Wenger, the poor deluded fools that they are. The just have no vision, that club!!

The Arsenal debate has been done, as I said before Pm one of the Arsenal lads and they will glady explain it to you again I'm sure.

A7X · 20-04-2009 04:28PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Go back to the start of this thread & you'll see that's not the case.

Ferguson was talking about Liverpool before the "rant" & was passing his judgment on our summer signings too, which drew Rafa out.

I agree they've both said silly things, but lets dis-spell the "rafa started it myth" thanks.

Karmafaerie wrote: »

First off, I suppose I should have prefaced that by saying alot of UTD fans.
Obviously some aren't so blind.

But you do realise that Fergie started all this, as usual right?

Rafa's "rant" (:rolleyes:) was in response to Fergie talking about Liverpool in the press.

Well since all I have is the quoted date from the quote in the first post, its reported from around the start of April, and unless thats wrong with when Fergie said that (which it probably is correct me if I'm wrong) that was after the "rant".

Also I really don't want to get dragged into this whole thing, I just wanted to let all the Liverpool fans that not all United fans are blindly sticking up for Fergie in this as I showed in an earlier post.

Mr Alan · 20-04-2009 04:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

Thats the thing listening to the majority of Scouse fans you'd think that success was reversed.

Come on Alan even you have to admit making a manager that has delivered zero in 3 years one of the highest paid in world football is baffling?

Boggles wrote: »

Sorry Alan I ment seasons, but I suspect you kinda new that.

Nothing, Zip, Zero in 3 seasons, that better?

again, not true, FA cup.

It'll be three seasons after this year.....but you already mocked someone in this thread and labeled them the offspring of Mytic Meg, so you wouldn't be nearly hypocritical enough to then predict the future yourself would you?

Boggles wrote: »

Where is he now on that chart?

no idea, i don't know what he gets paid, you obviously do. but i'd guess about 3rd-5th.

Hobart · 20-04-2009 04:29PM

Boggles wrote: »

What utter twaddle.

Hate to break it to ye Scouse fans, but Liverpool arn't anywhere near Uniteds main rivals this season.

We have to play Arsenal 3 times, including the semi finals of the biggest competition of them all, Chelsea for me are still the danger in the league, they are looking the real deal under Hiddinck, and could potentially be up against United again in the final of the CL.

Liverpool had their chance this year, out of all cup competitions early, fair play to the merseysiders, 5 points ahead in the league now coming into the last few games potentially 4 points behind.

It was only 6 weeks ago that fans were calling for Rafas head - I agreed with them, the prospect is another failure of a season, 3rd in a row, as someone mentioned he would not survive at any other top club, but for some reason the Scouse celebrate mediocroty and give the Spaniard a 25 million pound contract.

Heads in the F'ing sand, sad really.

Houlier officially becomes more successful than the Spaniard when Liverpool fail in the league.

Speaking of twaddle :rolleyes:, and actually getting back to the point...like I said earlier, the whole media world were as one in their damnation of Rafa and were very quick to label his thoughts as a rant. Have you ever thought why this was the case? It's simple tbh, they were viewed as such because Rafa rarely comments on such things. It caught the media completely off-guard, completely. The only thing they could do was label Rafa in some sort of Keegan-esque type way and say the man had finally cracked. How wrong they have been.

Similarly any Liverpool fan who does not take Fergie's barbed comments as a compliment, is off their head. When Rafa was asked directly if he thought Fergie was worried about Liverpool, "Yes" was his simple answer. Unlike Fergie, he does not feel the need to coat his comments is psycho babble and innuendo, he can now say it as it is, and he is also correct in saying that it is precisely because Liverpool are playing so well, that Utd now appear to be under so much pressure. Couple those comments with the display of the Reds in Old Trafford, and it's clear to most people (independents and fans on both sides) who is winning the psychological battle.

Boggles · 20-04-2009 04:33PM

Hobart wrote: »

who is winning the psychological battle.

Rafa can have the psychological battle.

Fergie I'm sure will be happy enough with the league.

Mr Alan · 20-04-2009 04:33PM

A7X wrote: »

Well since all I have is the quoted date from the quote in the first post, its reported from around the start of April, and unless thats wrong with when Fergie said that (which it probably is correct me if I'm wrong) that was after the "rant".

Also I really don't want to get dragged into this whole thing, I just wanted to let all the Liverpool fans that not all United fans are blindly sticking up for Fergie in this as I showed in an earlier post.

sorry, i meant this

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/107485-liverpool-will-feel-the-nerves-unlike-manchester-united

and pre jan he laughed in a press conference about how much was paid for Keane.

So the "Rafa started it" thing, is bull****.

I wasn't having a go btw mate, i respect you for calling Ferguson on his bull****.

elshambo · 20-04-2009 04:36PM

Boggles wrote: »

Rafa can have the psychological battle.

Fergie I'm sure will be happy enough with the league.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji0_CA-C3Mk

Hobart · 20-04-2009 04:37PM

Boggles wrote: »

Rafa can have the psychological battle.

Fergie I'm sure will be happy enough with the league.

Sure...I believe that they are presenting all 3 2 trophies to the successful team this week, and wrapping up the comp, as it's a foregone conclusion.

A7X · 20-04-2009 04:44PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

sorry, i meant this

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/107485-liverpool-will-feel-the-nerves-unlike-manchester-united

and pre jan he laughed in a press conference about how much was paid for Keane.

So the "Rafa started it" thing, is bull****.

I wasn't having a go btw mate, i respect you for calling Ferguson on his bull****.

“There’s no doubt that in the second half of the season they will get nervous,” said Ferguson. “With the experience we’ve got, having won a couple of titles in the past couple of years especially, it helps you. There’s no doubt about that. They’re going into the unknown, and if you make mistakes, then you get punished.”

Well from this all I can see is Fergie responding to from what I can gather, a question placed to him on Liverpool being on top at the time.
He's making sense in what he says there, of coures it's going to go down bad in the Liverpool camp. He was also right, as Liverpool lost the position they were in.

Also, I'm not to up on everything following up to Rafa's "rant", as it was after the "rant" that everything stepped up a notch. So sorry on that regard.

Fergie was really doing what he usually does. You also have to remember he's in a position where he is expected to comment on his closest rivals, I just don't think he or anyone was expecting that reaction back.

Having said that, like I have said alot, this should have died a long time ago.

Karmafaerie · 20-04-2009 04:45PM

A7X wrote: »

Well since all I have is the quoted date from the quote in the first post, its reported from around the start of April, and unless thats wrong with when Fergie said that (which it probably is correct me if I'm wrong) that was after the "rant".

Also I really don't want to get dragged into this whole thing, I just wanted to let all the Liverpool fans that not all United fans are blindly sticking up for Fergie in this as I showed in an earlier post.

Rafa was responding to Fergie saying that Liverpool were going to crack, and that he though Liverpools summer signings were baffling.

Boggles · 20-04-2009 04:46PM

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Rafa was responding to Fergie saying that Liverpool were going to crack, and that he though Liverpools summer signings were baffling.

They were baffling, Keane, Dossena, Degen???

Headshot · 20-04-2009 04:47PM

jesus this thread has gone down faster than Gerrard in the penalty box
and thats saying alot

Boggles · 20-04-2009 04:47PM

Headshot wrote: »

jesus this thread has gone down faster than Gerrard in the penalty box
and thats saying alot

:pac::p:):D:pac::p:):D:p:):pac:

thegen · 20-04-2009 04:48PM

Going through some of the posts it seems utd fans are saying the CL and EU comps in general mean more?

Well going on that if you take it Ferguson has bee in charge for what 20 plus years? And has managed only two CL.

Benitez is in charge 4 yrs? and has managed 1 CL. % wise he is more successful than Ferguson in Europe?

I know I will be corrected on a lot of this but hell there are lots of bullsh1t posts here

Karmafaerie · 20-04-2009 04:50PM

Sir Alex Ferguson versus Rafael Benitez: An Unwinnable War?
Posted By: Mark Ogden at Apr 17, 2009 at 20:34:17

SO who really is winning the 'mind games' between Sir Alex Ferguson and Rafael Benitez?

Ever since Ferguson spooked Kevin Keegan during the 1995-96 Premier League title run-in, anyone daring to take on the Manchester United manager in a bout of verbal warfare has pretty much been labelled crazy just for even thinking about tackling Fergie at his own game.

The rules are fairly simple. Ferguson did for Keegan, so it goes without saying that every other challenger will end up going the same way.

It's a fairly simplistic way of viewing the psychological battle and it has become one of football's great clichés - that Fergie always wins the mind games.

But is he really striking a blow with every barb that he unleashes?

Remember the dig at Arsene Wenger shortly after the Frenchman had swapped Grampus Eight for Arsenal? Having 'just come from Japan,' Wenger's comments about United's fixture congestion were not worth a yen in Ferguson's eyes.

It wasn't really a direct 'mind-game' jibe, but the message was clear to Wenger - I'm the guv'nor, you're the new kid on the block.

It didn't stop Wenger transforming Arsenal into United's greatest rivals for the best part of a decade, though.

Jose Mourinho didn't do too badly either in his first two seasons at Chelsea when he brought successive league titles to Stamford Bridge.

Ferguson barely landed a blow in those two years and, for all the talk of red wine and mutual admiration, the Scot knew that Mourinho was probably as tough a nut as he has ever had to crack.

Benitez is a new challenge for Ferguson, though, and the tactics he is employing to counter the Liverpool manager are contradictory and complex.

For a start, the Spaniard caught Ferguson cold with his unprompted 'rant' in January. Ferguson usually decides when to strike, but Benitez launched the hostilities on this occasion and it came from nowhere.

Ferguson responded by suggesting that Rafa was 'disturbed and angry' and Benitez's ploy looked to have backfired spectacularly as Liverpool's form melted away almost immediately after his 'rant.'

But with Liverpool reigniting the title race with the 4-1 victory at Old Trafford last month, the verbals have kicked off again and not a press conference goes by without either manager upping the ante with another attack.

Benitez claimed Ferguson was 'scared' of Liverpool, Ferguson felt it was 'fantastic' that Rafa was thinking of him so much.

Now the United manager has taken it another step by alluding to Benitez's disregard for his managerial colleagues.

And all the while, the likes of Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard train, play and go home without even batting an eyelid at their managers' latest little squabble.

So who is winning? Nobody wins. \It's just two great managers who want what only one of them can have and they are more than happy to get personal to achieve their aims.

But no title has been decided by a row between two managers. Even Keegan's Newcastle lost it on the pitch.

.

Mr Alan · 20-04-2009 04:51PM

A7X wrote: »

Fergie was really doing what he usually does. You also have to remember he's in a position where he is expected to comment on his closest rivals, I just don't think he or anyone was expecting that reaction back.

I agree Fergie was doing what he always does, thats the point, Rafa was doing what people normally don't do.....hitting back at the mighty "Sir" Alex Ferguson.

Rafa was laying a marker, saying, right Mr Ferguson, you can talk about me all you want....but i'll talk about you too...i'll scream blue murder about the pressure you put of refs & the comments you make about them etc. some of the points may not have been true,it'll bring a whole lot of attention on things at OT, and he wouldn't like that.

Rafa was simply showing Ferguson, that he is not afraid of him. A Liverpool manager hadn't done it since Dalglish, which is why it was welcomed with open arms by Liverpool fans.

A7X · 20-04-2009 04:51PM

Boggles wrote: »

They were baffling, Keane, Dossena, Degen???

Ah come. Even if they are baffling, I dont think he should come out and openly say so. It's none of his buisness. He can't talk about baffling buys at this stage after Berbatov, but the Berbatov buy was understandable and is only now baffling.

Headshot · 20-04-2009 04:53PM

Karmafaerie your back

i taught you were gone

5starpool · 20-04-2009 04:55PM

I think i figured out why all this happened last week.

Ferguson is grooming Allardyce to be the next Man Utd manager, and wanted to make sure he could give the press some sensationalist crap with the best of them.

Then again, mabe it will be Carlos Queiroz, after his successful grooming spells in charge of Real Madrid and Portugal. Then again, Mark Hughes would be good for them either.

Boggles · 20-04-2009 04:55PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Rafa was simply showing Ferguson, that he is not afraid of him. A Liverpool manager hadn't done it since Dalglish, which is why it was welcomed with open arms by Liverpool fans.

Nahhhhh, if he wasn't afraid of Ferguson and the press he wouldn't have sent Sammy out to do the press conference today.

Rafa is rattled, he has been called on his arrogance and disrespect and he knows it.

monkey9 · 20-04-2009 04:56PM

5starpool wrote: »

I think i figured out why all this happened last week.

Ferguson is grooming Allardyce to be the next Man Utd manager, and wanted to make sure he could give the press some sensationalist crap with the best of them.

Then again, mabe it will be Carlos Queiroz, after his successful grooming spells in charge of Real Madrid and Portugal. Then again, Mark Hughes would be good for them either.

He's grooming Boggles, i'm telling yeh!!!

20-04-2009 04:56PM

Boggles I don't think that you are going to win this. All the Liverpool fans are doing what they, along with their manager does. Lying and trying to pass it off as the truth with carefully placed words like 'fact'. They believe that if enough of them think that it's true then it actually becomes the truth. The fact that it's been 'our season' for the last 18 is a testament to that but when they lose it's automatically because they have no money and they're lucky to be in that position. Also Fergie apparently had some kind of head start over Benitez with a midfield of Fletcher-O'Shea-Giggs-Fortune we were so much better off than Liverpool at the time. Face it Liverpool fans, If Rafa had bought as well as Fergie in the past few years you probably would have been there or there abouts every year

monkey9 · 20-04-2009 04:57PM

Boggles wrote: »

Nahhhhh, if he wasn't afraid of Ferguson and the press he wouldn't have sent Sammy out to do the press conference today.

Rafa is rattled, he has been called on his arrogance and disrespect and he knows it.

:pac: :pac: :pac: :pac:

A7X · 20-04-2009 04:57PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I agree Fergie was doing what he always does, thats the point, Rafa was doing what people normally don't do.....hitting back at the mighty "Sir" Alex Ferguson.

Rafa was laying a marker, saying, right Mr Ferguson, you can talk about me all you want....but i'll talk about you too...i'll scream blue murder about the pressure you put of refs & the comments you make about them etc. some of the points may not have been true,it'll bring a whole lot of attention on things at OT, and he wouldn't like that.

Rafa was simply showing Ferguson, that he is not afraid of him. A Liverpool manager hadn't done it since Dalglish, which is why it was welcomed with open arms by Liverpool fans.

So in that respect, it is why I see that it was Rafa that made this war of words the way it is now by ,like you said, making some points that may not have been true or even some that were exagerated. It was obviously trying to rile up Fergie and it really did work but it has us where we are now.

Fergie was commenting on some things that really werent his buisness, but as far as I can see they weren't malicious and from what I can guess were in response to questions from the press, Rafa's weren't.

Karmafaerie · 20-04-2009 04:58PM

Headshot wrote: »

Karmafaerie your back

i taught you were gone

I've been posting in here non stop all day.!

Headshot · 20-04-2009 04:58PM

5starpool wrote: »

I think i figured out why all this happened last week.

Ferguson is grooming Allardyce to be the next Man Utd manager, and wanted to make sure he could give the press some sensationalist crap with the best of them.

Then again, mabe it will be Carlos Queiroz, after his successful grooming spells in charge of Real Madrid and Portugal. Then again, Mark Hughes would be good for them either.

thats funny because at least out manager doesnt need an advisor :rolleyes:

Ferguson vs Benitez thread

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