Ferguson vs Benitez thread

BaZmO*

If Liverpool win the PL this year Rafa will be hailed as a mindgames master and likewise, if Utd. win the PL this year Fergie will once again be hailed as the mindgames master.

The funniest part is watching both sets of fans getting so roiled up with their comments.

SlickRic

torresistheman wrote: »

Pity about them. Ya talk of winning everything & been untouchable then deal with it

Boggles is arguing that they needed to rest players because they're in everything.

decide what you're slating utd for, rather than just blanket bombing and hoping something sticks.

for the record, i don't think fergie needed to rest that many players; a couple maybe, but not that many. but they nearly did it so whose arguing? Yes, Fergie would have had a better chance of winning with his better players on the pitch but he took a calculated risk because of what he's prioritising.

I'd have expected Rafa to do the exact same thing. Fans hate it, because they want to see the best players every game so that they can win every game in all competitions.

Karmafaerie

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5214252,00.html



He seems to be trying to take Wenger under his wing now

He also seems to completely contradict himself.

I don't know what Arsene will be thinking about tomorrow but no matter what, Arsenal always try," said Ferguson.

"That is the mantra of Arsene himself. He is a winner.

"Providing they try, it is all I can ask for


Followed by


"I am not concerned about Tuesday's game," he said, referring to Arsenal's visit to Anfield.

"I will concern myself with my own team. That is enough for me to think about."

monkey9

Independent.ie


By Sam Wallace


Monday April 20 2009

As a student of American politics, and an interviewee of David Frost, Sir Alex Ferguson will be aware of the killer line in the recent Frost/Nixon movie. Pressed on his role in Watergate, Richard Nixon utters his self-serving justification that reveals his megalomania: "When the President does it, that means it's not illegal."

Let's take that theory and apply it to modern English football. How do we know when a Premier League manager is acting with arrogance and contempt? When Ferguson says he is, of course. Or, when Ferguson spots an innocuous gesture from Rafael Benitez, whom he happens to despise, towards Sam Allardyce, who has proved his unwavering acolyte. That is Ferguson's Nixon principle: it is because I say it is. And how could we be so stupid as to argue with him?


In applying the Ferguson/Nixon principle on arrogant behaviour between managers, suddenly things become a lot clearer. For instance, there was no arrogance involved when Ferguson picked Paul Scholes for a Premier League game against Middlesbrough in September 2002, having first withdrawn him from Sven Goran Eriksson's England squad. It was by no means humiliating for Eriksson to be sat in the Old Trafford stand when this took place.


Anyway, Ferguson was never contemptuous of Eriksson, especially not when he mimicked his Swedish accent and stock answers in a magazine interview in 2003. "He sails along, nobody falls out with him," Ferguson said of Eriksson at the time. "He comes out and he says: 'The first half we were good, second half we were not so good. I am very pleased with the result.'"


Arrogant and contemptuous attitudes were right off the menu when Ferguson's players and staff were aggressive, hostile, abusive and provocative in a confrontation with Chelsea's groundsmen last April. That was not my description but that of the Football Association independent commission that found overwhelmingly in Chelsea's favour in December over that incident. Presumably the QC in question, Nicholas Stewart, had not applied the Ferguson/Nixon principle. What the hell was he thinking?


It is a talent peculiar to men like Ferguson, to see things exclusively their own way. When Ferguson described Benitez's "game over" gesture against Blackburn Rovers on Friday, he said it was "beyond the pale", as if the Liverpool manager had sneakily executed a Nazi salute in Sam Allardyce's direction. At most, Benitez just looked like a harassed supply teacher trying to restore order.


Remarkably, Ferguson claims that he spotted Benitez's gesture towards Allardyce himself, which must have taken a lot of rewinding and pausing of his Sky+ as he scrutinised Benitez's conduct for something that could be considered controversial. Not since Mary Whitehouse has the television age known someone so easily offended.


The more obvious explanation is that Allardyce told Ferguson about it, largely because Allardyce is a very enthusiastic disciple. Other managers such as Mark Hughes, Steve Bruce, Roy Keane – even yesterday's opponent, David Moyes – have sought to put some distance between themselves and Ferguson. They are well aware that however chummy, if Ferguson wants something – your best player for instance – then it will be business as usual.


Perhaps the most laughable aspect of Ferguson's justification for his attack on Benitez: that Allardyce was undeserving of it because of his sound work for the League Managers' Association, as if that organisation was – at that very moment – endeavouring to solve Africa's poverty and bring peace to the Middle East. Perhaps with Big Sam in the vanguard, uniting warring factions through lectures on ProZone stats and the necessity of having a club nutritionist.


The LMA doubtless does much good work, but membership of it does not alone necessarily confer righteousness. It has, like any professional organisation, its own self-interest. The great irony is that the serving England manager is given the honorary title of LMA president and when all the backslapping is done, that same LMA president has to fight against the LMA's leading members withdrawing their players for international friendlies.


It is not impossible to discern why a foreign manager such as Benitez feels an element of distrust towards the LMA, especially when it is used against him by Ferguson in arguments such as the one the United manager ignited on Friday. Ferguson may have a polite tradition of writing to every new young manager who joins the profession, but that avuncular style is not exclusive to him. In the only interview he has given since leaving Sunderland, Keane singled out Benitez as a manager who had been generous with his time.


Contempt, arrogance – these are every manager's stock in trade when the moment requires it. When Ferguson refused to shake the hand of Claude Puel after United's defeat to Lille in the Champions League in 2005, the French manager might well have regarded that as arrogant. Ferguson's dismissal of Manchester City this season – "still lingering in mid-table" – was not dissimilar to Benitez's "small club" jibe at Everton.


What Ferguson is attempting to do is to isolate Benitez because he clearly senses a hardening of feeling towards the Spaniard among his managerial cronies. It also suits him to do so as the season reaches its conclusion with Liverpool still very much in the running.


It is all the familiar mind games, the usual nonsense. But let's be clear about one thing: giving Big Sam a bit of stick does not make Benitez arrogant. Even if Ferguson proclaims it so.

Boggles

monkey9 wrote: »

What Ferguson is attempting to do is to isolate Benitez because he clearly senses a hardening of feeling towards the Spaniard among his managerial cronies. It also suits him to do so as the season reaches its conclusion with Liverpool still very much in the running.

What utter twaddle.

Hate to break it to ye Scouse fans, but Liverpool arn't anywhere near Uniteds main rivals this season.

We have to play Arsenal 3 times, including the semi finals of the biggest competition of them all, Chelsea for me are still the danger in the league, they are looking the real deal under Hiddinck, and could potentially be up against United again in the final of the CL.

Liverpool had their chance this year, out of all cup competitions early, fair play to the merseysiders, 5 points ahead in the league now coming into the last few games potentially 4 points behind.

It was only 6 weeks ago that fans were calling for Rafas head - I agreed with them, the prospect is another failure of a season, 3rd in a row, as someone mentioned he would not survive at any other top club, but for some reason the Scouse celebrate mediocroty and give the Spaniard a 25 million pound contract.

Heads in the F'ing sand, sad really.

Houlier officially becomes more successful than the Spaniard when Liverpool fail in the league.

Mr Alan

lol boggles. lol is all i can say to that.

Davei141

Mr Alan wrote: »

lol boggles. lol is all i can say to that.

Boggles cracking up!

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

lol boggles. lol is all i can say to that.

Was it the prospect of 3 years in a row with nothing to show for it or the fact that ye gave the man responsible for that a 25 million contract that made you laugh? I did chuckle myself when it was announced.

monkey9

Boggles wrote: »

What utter twaddle.

Hate to break it to ye Scouse fans, but Liverpool arn't anywhere near Uniteds main rivals this season.

We have to play Arsenal 3 times, including the semi finals of the biggest competition of them all, Chelsea for me are still the danger in the league, they are looking the real deal under Hiddinck, and could potentially be up against United again in the final of the CL.

Liverpool had their chance this year, out of all cup competitions early, fair play to the merseysiders, 5 points ahead in the league now coming into the last few games potentially 4 points behind.

It was only 6 weeks ago that fans were calling for Rafas head - I agreed with them, the prospect is another failure of a season, 3rd in a row, as someone mentioned he would not survive at any other top club, but for some reason the Scouse celebrate mediocroty and give the Spaniard a 25 million pound contract.

Heads in the F'ing sand, sad really.

Houlier officially becomes more successful than the Spaniard when Liverpool fail in the league.

You can be sure Fergie is cracking up over Rafa for a reason

x in the city

how is this not locked yet..

houllier even got a mention..:P

monkey9

Boggles wrote: »

Was it the prospect of 3 years in a row with nothing to show for it or the fact that ye gave the man responsible for that a 25 million contract that made you laugh? I did chuckle myself when it was announced.

It's called progression! It's being made.

Karmafaerie

Boogles.

You are a legend.
Not in the way you think.
But you are.

x in the city

BaZmO* wrote: »

If Liverpool win the PL this year Rafa will be hailed as a mindgames master and likewise, if Utd. win the PL this year Fergie will once again be hailed as the mindgames master.

The funniest part is watching both sets of fans getting so roiled up with their comments.

I dont think pool will win the league, they have left themselves with too much to do, but it would be amazing if they did

a community shield in the autumn as god intended 20 years on from the 96.

shur Alex ferguson is always harping on with someone, its either Wegner or keegan or Mourinho or Benitez

its all in a days work for him

Boggles

monkey9 wrote: »

It's called progression! It's being made.

Karmafaerie

x in the city wrote: »

I dont think pool will win the league, they have left themselves with too much to do, but it would be amazing if they did

a community shield in the autumn as god intended 20 years on from the 96.

shur Alex ferguson is always harping on with someone, its either Wegner or keegan or Mourinho or Benitez

its all in a days work for him

Yes, but now UTD fans are cracking up because they're getting a taste of their own medicine.

It's hilarious!:D

BaZmO*

x in the city wrote: »

I dont think pool will win the league

I don't think they will either, but my point still stands.

x in the city wrote: »

shur Alex ferguson is always harping on with someone, its either Wegner or keegan or Mourinho or Benitez

its all in a days work for him

Really? Don't think they ever really had a go at each other?

monkey9

x in the city wrote: »

Ishur Alex ferguson is always harping on with someone, its either Wegner or keegan or Mourinho or Benitez

its all in a days work for him

Yep, but only when he feels they're a threat.

So Boggles may not feel Liverpool are a threat, but Boggles isn't the Man Utd manager (although i'd love it if he was)

Mr Alan

agreed X.

I don't think we'll win it this year personally....as SAF said when he was at Utd 7 years before winning the league, its hard to knock a team off the top when they have had a couple of decades with continuity and added excellent player after excellent to already title winning teams, but we are undoubtadly closer every year & this year are right on their tails.

With our recent form, Utds recent poor form since the schooling dished out at OT, Fergusons recent peculiar behaviour, the pressure is obviously starting to show....so there's one point in it, and we have the easier run in....its very possible, and all Liverpool fans wanted was to be involved in the title race.

Whatever happens Liverpool fans view it as a good season, Boggles doesn't, but thats ok :rolleyes:

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Whatever happens Liverpool fans view it as a good season, Boggles doesn't, but thats ok :rolleyes:

Liverpool will get what they deserve a champions league place, personally I don't think that is good enough but we ovbiously have different levels of what we think success is.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Liverpool will get what they deserve a champions league place, personally I don't think that is good enough but we ovbiously have different levels of what we think success is.

Boogles, I think it's safe to say that you and the rest of us have different levels of what we think everything is.

We think success is something different than you.
We think dignity is something different.
We think that left and right are something different.

A7X

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Yes, but now UTD fans are cracking up because they're getting a taste of their own medicine.

It's hilarious!:D

I dunno what United fan's your talking about because I for one amn't cracking up.

I think Ferguson is an idiot for saying the things that he has. His thing about Rafa being arrogant was just stupid and pulled completley out of his and Sam's collective arse.

They are all just leaving themselves open for the media to blow things out of preportion. I'm including Rafa in that too because he started off this whole thing in January trying to unease the United bench with a taste of Fergie's own medicine and by the looks of it, it worked but made him look like a complete fool.

It really is just like being in the school yard.

Mr Alan

Boggles wrote: »

Liverpool will get what they deserve a champions league place, personally I don't think that is good enough but we ovbiously have different levels of what we think success is.

Of course we do. We follow different teams, United have won the PL many times over the last decade. Liverpool haven't won one in 18 years?! of course we have different expectations!:rolleyes: no team has ever gone from 4th to 1st in one year,if we did so this year it would be quite frankly an unbelievable achievement....if we run Utd close, which we are, its an excellent achievement.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

elshambo

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Boogles.

You are a legend.
Not in the way you think.
But you are.

Boggles im a pool fan but im gonna be nice to you
& i hope the mods see it as such

go take a look in a mirror and just stare at yourself for 5 mins
then imagine your life was to end tommorow
do you really want your final thought to be

"Id better defend Fergie even thought he doesnt know i exist
because I like a football team i dont play for more than a different football team i dont play for"?:eek:

Life is short and the days are long
do something with them other than

"ManU are great HaHa
Liverpool are poo haha":o

Mr Alan

A7X wrote: »

he started off this whole thing in January trying to unease the United bench with a taste of Fergie's own medicine and by the looks of it, it worked but made him look like a complete fool.

Go back to the start of this thread & you'll see that's not the case.

Ferguson was talking about Liverpool before the "rant" & was passing his judgment on our summer signings too, which drew Rafa out.

I agree they've both said silly things, but lets dis-spell the "rafa started it myth" thanks.

Xavi6

Can someone bookmark this thread for around November time so it can be included in the 2009 forum awards?

Cheers

Boggles

Mr Alan wrote: »

Of course we do. We follow different teams, United have won the PL many times over the last decade. Liverpool haven't won one in 18 years?! of course we have different expectations!:rolleyes: no team has ever gone from 4th to 1st in one year,if we did so this year it would be quite frankly an unbelievable achievement....if we run Utd close, which we are, its an excellent achievement.

Thats the thing listening to the majority of Scouse fans you'd think that success was reversed.

Come on Alan even you have to admit making a manager that has delivered zero in 3 years one of the highest paid in world football is baffling?

Karmafaerie

A7X wrote: »

I dunno what United fan's your talking about because I for one amn't cracking up.

I think Ferguson is an idiot for saying the things that he has. His thing about Rafa being arrogant was just stupid and pulled completley out of his and Sam's collective arse.

They are all just leaving themselves open for the media to blow things out of preportion. I'm including Rafa in that too because he started off this whole thing in January trying to unease the United bench with a taste of Fergie's own medicine and by the looks of it, it worked but made him look like a complete fool.

It really is just like being in the school yard.

First off, I suppose I should have prefaced that by saying alot of UTD fans.
Obviously some aren't so blind.


But you do realise that Fergie started all this, as usual right?

Rafa's "rant" (:rolleyes:) was in response to Fergie talking about Liverpool in the press.

Boggles

elshambo wrote: »

Boggles im a pool fan b

Sorry Elshambo didn't read past that.

Karmafaerie

Boggles wrote: »

Thats the thing listening to the majority of Scouse fans you'd think that success was reversed.

Come on Alan even you have to admit making a manager that has delivered zero in 3 years one of the highest paid in world football is baffling?

I agree completely, but try and explain that to the everton board!