[US/IRL] 5X12 - "Dead is Dead" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

Sad Professor · 09-04-2009 03:07AM #1

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "DEAD IS DEAD" -

Episode Title: "Dead is Dead"
Airdate: April 8th 2009

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

To atone for sins of the past, Ben must attempt to summon the smoke monster in order to be judged.

Next New Episode: 5X13 - April 15th 2009

SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

This episode shall air on:

ABC (US) - April 8th 2009
RTÉ (IRL) - April 12th 2009

If you are sure you have seen the episode as mentioned above (on the channels on those original airdates), you can move down further in order to discuss the episode.

Otherwise, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - there shall be major plot details of the episode revealed and discussed below with no spoiler tags used!

Sad Professor · 09-04-2009 03:25AM

8

Great stuff. My expectations were high and I was hoping for a little more in places but it's still easily the best episode of the season so far. Great ending.

Anima · 09-04-2009 04:32AM

8

Yeah what a fantastic episode. This season really needed one of these after so many character driven episodes. Final scene was epic.

I wonder what Llana meant by what she said. Isn't the statue gone at this point or is she refering to something else?

Kinda disappointed with how unimportant Rousseu has turned out to be. Shes been there since early season 1 and I think thats pretty much her story finished, no? Bit of an anti-climax really.

ShaneU · 09-04-2009 05:36AM

9

Amazing! Ben episodes are always good and this was no different.

Steoob · 09-04-2009 07:59AM

Ah I didn't really like the ending I mean it wasn't really climactic we already knew that the smoke monster let him live. Pretty good otherwise though.

O did anyone else notice when Ben was summoning the monster that the water drained clockwise? How did they do that? They're filming in Hawaii.

tok9 · 09-04-2009 10:18AM

8

Great episode... it threw in a few questions too

Ethan can't be more than 11 when we see him with ben... When was the purge again??

Is there any other reasons why widmore was banished?
The smoke monster seems to gather information on whoever crosses there path and can transform into a person in there history? eg. Alex and Yemi

Oh ya nearly forgot about Ilana... I wonder was her question some kind of code?? And is she with widmore?

Sad Professor · 09-04-2009 11:34AM

8

The purge happened in 1992. The scene with Ben, Ethan and Rousseau in this episode is 1988.

http://www.getlostpodcastmedia.com/wp-content/gallery/5x12-glyphs/c-users-thad-pictures-lost-season-5-5x12-5x1200002.jpg
Looks like Anubis or whoever the statue was meant to be. Question is, is he summoning the monster or being judged by it?

MikeHoncho · 09-04-2009 11:42AM

8

I thought it was a really good episode. So Widmore was never tricked into turning the wheel and was instead banished by his people for breaking the rules and having an off Island affair.

I thought Terry O'Quinn was excellent in this episode. Very charismatic. Nice to see that Locke is the one holding all the chips now and not Ben. His trip through the past has given him knowledge that Ben doesnt have. Id say the time jumps werent as random as we might have thought and the Island was bringing them to certain times for a reason.

Looks like Ilana is an Other but is she working for Widmore, Ben, Richard or someone else?

9/10. A mark off as I thought the Penny/ Desmond bit was a cop out. We still dont know if Penny is alive because Ben went in the water which is the same place his gun went.

Steoob wrote: »

O did anyone else notice when Ben was summoning the monster that the water drained clockwise? How did they do that? They're filming in Hawaii.

Probably just fliped the negative in editing?

Johnmb · 09-04-2009 12:34PM

Steoob wrote: »

O did anyone else notice when Ben was summoning the monster that the water drained clockwise? How did they do that? They're filming in Hawaii.

Makes no difference where on the planet they film, they could easily make the water flow either direction. The coriolis effect would not impact on such a small body of water, at least not to the same extent as more local things such as the position of the drainage hole, shape of the container, etc.

jimbling · 09-04-2009 01:33PM

8

Brilliant episode.

Agamemnon · 09-04-2009 01:53PM

8

Great episode, nice to see that Ben is Locke's bitch now.

I'm relieved that Ben failed to kill Penny and that Dessie gave him the beating he so richly deserved. I doubt that's the last we'll see of D&P though, but I'm not sure how they'd work them back into the storyline.

Bit of a surprise that Caesar was killed off. That Ilana is probably working for Widmore makes sense - now we know she was on Flight 316 for a reason and it wasn't just massive coincidence.

The temple looked pretty ancient - wonder if the Others are descendants of Egyptians? Maybe the island was once off the coast of Egypt (or even Tunisia, seeing as Ben and Locke ended up there when they moved the island).

don ramo · 09-04-2009 01:56PM

9

excellent episode, penny id say is still alive, and thats the reason ben was forgiven, he didnt take revenge which makes him a good person,

good to see the way ben plays people to see who they really are, and what theyll do to survive, the way he played cesar was excellent,

the way widmore left was noting like how i thought itd happen, and i couldnt see ben having that much influence over such a thing, yet why did widmore blmae him so much,

does anyone think that ilana looks a lot like alex

10/10 ben episodes are class:D

don ramo · 09-04-2009 02:00PM

9

Agamemnon wrote: »

Bit of a surprise that Caesar was killed off. That Ilana is probably working for Widmore makes sense - now we know she was on Flight 316 for a reason and it wasn't just massive coincidence.

ya she must be working for widmore, after all ben did give him the heads up he was heading back to the island, and there just happens to be a container full of guns on the plane

also wasnt it said that locke was needed for the fight thats about to come, (i cant remember what episode that was in)

Creamy Goodness · 09-04-2009 02:04PM

stunning.

Agamemnon · 09-04-2009 02:27PM

8

don ramo wrote: »

ya she must be working for widmore, after all ben did give him the heads up he was heading back to the island, and there just happens to be a container full of guns on the plane

If Widmore is behind Ilana and pals' trip to the island, I wonder how he found out that they had to be on Flight 316? Only Eloise Hawking knew that from using the DI Lamp Post station. Maybe Eloise told Widmore and she's playing him and Ben off each other. Maybe Widmore has his own version of the Lamp Post or maybe one of the O6 is working for him now.

Hope we'll see what Widmore did after Ben told him he was going to kill Penny. Now that Des saved her, Des should finally be worthy of Penny in her father's eyes.

Sad Professor · 09-04-2009 02:56PM

8

Agamemnon wrote: »

If Widmore is behind Ilana and pals' trip to the island, I wonder how he found out that they had to be on Flight 316? Only Eloise Hawking knew that from using the DI Lamp Post station. Maybe Eloise told Widmore and she's playing him and Ben off each other. Maybe Widmore has his own version of the Lamp Post or maybe one of the O6 is working for him now.

I think Hawking and Widmore are working together and always were. Hawking was on the island with him in the 50s and 70s.

Also, Widmore was able give Desmond the address of the Lamp Post station so he obviously knew all about it. Ben said he had to get vital info from Locke before he killed him. That was Hawking — Christian told Locke to find her. But I don't think Ben knew anything about her until Locke told him. So after he killed Locke he went and found her. Why they chose to help each other I don't know. Maybe Ben and Widmore needed each other to get back to the island. Widmore could find the island but only Ben could get the O6 to go back. And both were necessary for everything to work.

The interesting thing about all this is that Christian, who speaks for Jacob, told Locke about Hawking. Which means if Widmore and Hawking are still on the same side, than that is also the side of Jacob. Which fits in with the idea, hinted in season 3, that Ben is actually keeping Jacob captive and is manipulating the Others into thinking that they are following his bidding.

doonothing · 09-04-2009 03:46PM

I thought it was pretty bad I have to say... The scene with the smoke monster was a massive disappointment, I don't know what I was expecting but a couple of flashbacks that looked dodgily edited in certainly didn't meet them...

Some of the stuff seemed kinda forced, Ben saying he was terrified of the fact that John was alive? Why? I know it's unprecedented and all, but terrifying? Having lived on the island with all that crazy **** happening his whole life? Pfft.

Some of the scenes were kinda pointless, like in the last couple of episodes, showing us the stuff we had expected to happen etc.

Probably gonna get ripped into over this, but a resounding meh from me.

Johnmb · 09-04-2009 03:48PM

I actually don't think Hawking is on either side. I reckon she works with and for the island, not Widmore or Ben. They both want to lead the inhabitants, and she doesn't care because the island will sort it out. They both know where she is because she has no reason to hide. You want to know where the island is? Sure, here you go, but the island won't take you back, that plane/boat/whatever will most likely just pass on by...

don ramo · 09-04-2009 04:17PM

9

Agamemnon wrote: »

If Widmore is behind Ilana and pals' trip to the island, I wonder how he found out that they had to be on Flight 316? Only Eloise Hawking knew that from using the DI Lamp Post station. Maybe Eloise told Widmore and she's playing him and Ben off each other. Maybe Widmore has his own version of the Lamp Post or maybe one of the O6 is working for him now.

Hope we'll see what Widmore did after Ben told him he was going to kill Penny. Now that Des saved her, Des should finally be worthy of Penny in her father's eyes.

des didnt save penny, ben changed his mind, he was lowering the gun before des tackled him,

and it wouldnt be hard for widmore to find out which plane they were on, hes obviously tracking the O6, and its was kinda strange than hurley would book 52 seats on a plane, hurley may aswell have phoned widmore and told him,

Stench Blossoms · 09-04-2009 04:19PM

I thought it was a brilliant episode but one thing confused me.

From what I remember from season 1, Danielle captures Ben and brings him to the losties. Would she not remember Ben as the person who took Alex ? I thought she said the others took Alex while she was sleeping and left no trace. Maybe I have it wrong though.

don ramo · 09-04-2009 04:25PM

9

doonothing wrote: »

I thought it was pretty bad I have to say... The scene with the smoke monster was a massive disappointment, I don't know what I was expecting but a couple of flashbacks that looked dodgily edited in certainly didn't meet them...

Some of the stuff seemed kinda forced, Ben saying he was terrified of the fact that John was alive? Why? I know it's unprecedented and all, but terrifying? Having lived on the island with all that crazy **** happening his whole life? Pfft.

Some of the scenes were kinda pointless, like in the last couple of episodes, showing us the stuff we had expected to happen etc.

Probably gonna get ripped into over this, but a resounding meh from me.

what did ya expect the smoke monster to do, kill ben, ben said he was gonna be judged for letting his daughter die, and he was, id say the fact he let penny live is the only reason he is still alive,

yes as ben said hes seen the island do a lot of things in his time there, but "dead is dead", theres no coming back from that, but yet theres locke standing next to him,

ya maybe people who read these boards expected these things to happen, but every person here has a different theory of what will happen, and how events are interperated,

what kind of pointless things are you on about anyway

don ramo · 09-04-2009 04:27PM

9

orla wrote: »

I thought it was a brilliant episode but one thing confused me.

From what I remember from season 1, Danielle captures Ben and brings him to the losties. Would she not remember Ben as the person who took Alex ? I thought she said the others took Alex while she was sleeping and left no trace. Maybe I have it wrong though.

shes on the island 16 years by herself, shes a bit mad, maybe herself and ben had an agreement, who knows, ben is very sneaky that way

Sad Professor · 09-04-2009 04:28PM

8

orla wrote: »

I thought it was a brilliant episode but one thing confused me.

From what I remember from season 1, Danielle captures Ben and brings him to the losties. Would she not remember Ben as the person who took Alex ? I thought she said the others took Alex while she was sleeping and left no trace. Maybe I have it wrong though.

I always figured she did recognise Ben in season 2, hence the reason she was so certain he was an Other.

As for why she told Sayid she never saw the Others? Well, we have to take into account that Rousseau was insane. Within months of arriving on the island, she killed her husband and crew. And she spent the next 16 years eating mangos, pulling twigs out of her hair and setting death traps for the Others. So she probably developed a few memory problems.

doonothing · 09-04-2009 04:29PM

don ramo wrote: »

what did ya expect the smoke monster to do, kill ben, ben said he was gonna be judged for letting his daughter die, and he was, id say the fact he let penny live is the only reason he is still alive,

yes as ben said hes seen the island do a lot of things in his time there, but "dead is dead", theres no coming back from that, but yet theres locke standing next to him,

ya maybe people who read these boards expected these things to happen, but every person here has a different theory of what will happen, and how events are interperated,

what kind of pointless things are you on about anyway

I didn't expect him to kill Ben, and I already said I don't know what I was expecting to happen.

I understand that it's a big deal and shocking that Locke is alive, my issue was with the fact that Ben said it was terrifying and was completely surprised by it...

Jeez, sorry buddy, just my opinion... I wasn't asking you to agree like!

don ramo · 09-04-2009 04:32PM

9

doonothing wrote: »

I didn't expect him to kill Ben, and I already said I don't know what I was expecting to happen.

I understand that it's a big deal and shocking that Locke is alive, my issue was with the fact that Ben said it was terrifying and was completely surprised by it...

Jeez, sorry buddy, just my opinion... I wasn't asking you to agree like!

ya i just think its great the fact than ben knows so much about the island, yet hes still surprises and scared of what it can do,

but then again is he trying to make it look like hes afraid,

jimbling · 09-04-2009 04:43PM

8

I would have thought that Ben was just playing people as usual. In all likelihood his comments to Sun were all part of his plot to Kill John again. I doubt he was genuinely terrified anyway.

It's going to be fun watching Ben try and hold his bargain with smokey and obey Johns every order

rose_2 · 09-04-2009 04:45PM

i dont know how anybody (and by anybody i mean us the viewers) can believe a word ben says. as far as im concerned he's never completely genuine, he tells a different story to everyone, only lookin out for himself, so we shouldnt really pay any heed to whether he seems, frightened, surprised etc by different things...its all a game!!

loved loved loved locke in this episode, terry o quinn played the part really well. and as for the smoke monster, that was just ridiculous.I love lost and get drawn in by all the story lines, time travel, you name it!but this smoke monster judging ben and making alex reappear is just taking it too far if u ask me!!

purple_hatstand · 09-04-2009 04:52PM

don ramo wrote: »

ya i just think its great the fact than ben knows so much about the island, yet hes still surprises and scared of what it can do,

I've mentioned before in these episode threads a theory I had earlier this season - maybe this Ben is younger than the one we first saw in season2.

He's seemed a lot less in control of himself, other characters, important information than he 'was'. Controlling information is the way he gained power - he seems to be on a quest for information and to be genuinely surprised by stuff this season.

don ramo wrote: »

but then again is he trying to make it look like hes afraid,

He also tells loadsa lies.......:p

MikeHoncho · 09-04-2009 05:30PM

8

rose_2 wrote: »

I love lost and get drawn in by all the story lines, time travel, you name it!but this smoke monster judging ben and making alex reappear is just taking it too far if u ask me!!

I take it you missed the whole Mr Eko / Yemme / big giant smoke fist smashy smashy scene from 2 seasons ago.

Catsmokinpot · 09-04-2009 05:43PM

9

another breathtaking episode this season is the best so far. i'd really like to know what the new losties are up to.

PullMyFinger! · 09-04-2009 06:50PM

7

Great ep that Ive watched 1 and half times already. Very good casting on hte young Ben. Fantastic Smokie scene.

One downside is that Michael Emerson's acting is starting to look like an over-baked hamlet at times. Case in point is where he tells Rousseou "and if you heaaar whispers you run the other way" ... very over the top.

Questions

Who was the girl in the pic with Ben? My thinking is they're saving her for the final season.

Whats the bets the final shot on this season is of the face of the statue?

8/10

[US/IRL] 5X12 - "Dead is Dead" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]

What did you think of "Dead is Dead"? 153 votes

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[US/IRL] 5X12 - "Dead is Dead" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

What did you think of "Dead is Dead"? 153 votes

Comments

[US/IRL] 5X12 - "Dead is Dead" [ SPOILERS WITHIN ]