Infrastructure cuts discussed for the next budget

Tech3 · 31-03-2009 10:51PM

spacetweek wrote: »

OK - but when you zoom out, the bypass appears completed.

Sorry about that, just zoomed out, funny alright that it looks completed!! Wishful thinking!

spacetweek · 01-04-2009 10:34PM

Albania can quite frankly go and sh!te. Typical Irish inferiority complex about everything.

There are dual carriageways and motorways in Cuba but that does not make it a well-organised, modern country.

GIS_nerd38 · 06-04-2009 08:34PM

I just wanted to say that I found the thread fascinating. But I don't get hoiw we can afford not to have Metro North to Swords. The thing is that most other Governments are going for it with any unbuilt infrastructure projects that are known to be needed.

The Swords area has grown big because of the promise of metro north. Whoever comes to tell people here that we have to sit inside cars for another generation is going to be comitting political suicide because the levies and mortgages that WE paid contributed in high house-prices paid more into Government coffers than anywhere else in the country.

Look at the population figures available on this site. http://www.fdb.ie/fingaldatahub/

Geogregor · 06-04-2009 11:39PM

spacetweek wrote: »

Albania can quite frankly go and sh!te. Typical Irish inferiority complex about everything.

There are dual carriageways and motorways in Cuba but that does not make it a well-organised, modern country.

Exactly, look at New Zealand. Country with similar population and development levels. Yet, how many km of motorways they have? How about current motorway building program? Almost non existent. There is virtually no chance to connect even Auckland to Wellington with motorway standard road, not mentioning other population centres.
In the meantime Ireland will soon have fairly comprehensive motorway network connecting major population centres.
Come on guys, stop moaning.

mysterious · 07-04-2009 02:54AM

Geogregor wrote: »

Exactly, look at New Zealand. Country with similar population and development levels. Yet, how many km of motorways they have? How about current motorway building program? Almost non existent. There is virtually no chance to connect even Auckland to Wellington with motorway standard road, not mentioning other population centres.
In the meantime Ireland will soon have fairly comprehensive motorway network connecting major population centres.
Come on guys, stop moaning.

Ireland's population is higher, and our land is much more flatter, so it's pretty inexpensive to build motorways here. The population of the Island is 6million. Yet our island is even smaller than there south Island. So it's not a really fair comparison.

New Zealand is bigger than the Uk, it's a very hilly country and it's largest population centres are at least 300km apart. The South Island is majorly mountainous and most inhabitants live by the coast. If your travelling between cities on New zealand I'm sure local air transport is widely popular. In this country we don't need it to travel between towns.

We still have a crappy road system. We should of have had the M7/M8 and M6 motorways years ago, even going back to the late 70s. Spain and Portugal were as poor as us, now they have passed us out in terms of adequate road infastructure.

There is no excuse for it. We had so much money pumped into the econmoy with a still flagging third world transport system.

Seriously we wouldn't even need to go into railways and talk about that it's that embarressing..

mysterious · 07-04-2009 03:02AM

spacetweek wrote: »

Albania can quite frankly go and sh!te. Typical Irish inferiority complex about everything.

There are dual carriageways and motorways in Cuba but that does not make it a well-organised, modern country.

No, but there you go off on your rants again,:rolleyes:
Calm down..

The difference between Cuba and us, is we are a modern country, we are a wealthy country. Whereas Cuba isn't. You can't compare these two countries in this regard.

Yet despite our status and wealth we still flag on the embarressingly on bottom of the table of not having an efficient transport system like our EU neighbours. We are not a country with a vast a wash of raw materials and mineral wealth. So we need to attract foreign investment into this country. We need to modernised and improve our image. Once of the ways to do this is to provide an efficient transport system to move people and goods quickly between the major urban centres. This is why many industries locate in Limerick or Dublin, because they are well connected with road and rail. We need a well connected tranport system, good educatation and high skilled workfoce to keep us on the competitivness table.
It's no excuse, since we are supposedly in the top 10 richest countries in the world, we still have a two lane bohereen at Mountrath between to major Irish cities Dublin Limerick/southwest.

Spacetweek, sometimes I wonder where you come up with your kneejerk responses.

zootroid · 07-04-2009 07:25AM

Geogregor wrote: »

Exactly, look at New Zealand. Country with similar population and development levels. Yet, how many km of motorways they have? How about current motorway building program? Almost non existent. There is virtually no chance to connect even Auckland to Wellington with motorway standard road, not mentioning other population centres.
In the meantime Ireland will soon have fairly comprehensive motorway network connecting major population centres.
Come on guys, stop moaning.

Isn't New Zealand something like 4 times the size of Ireland?

And I would say we have a more developed economy as well, mainly because we are not as isolated. Auckland is 2 hours from Sydney (I think) and about 4 from Melbourne. And thats just Australia, where the population of the whole country is 20m. We are much closer to our main trading partned, the UK, and also parts of Europe are very close.

Zoney · 07-04-2009 10:00AM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The only schemes still alive by virtue of not being killed by Finance , and with a budget coming in a fortnight mind , are the Cork-Bundoran sections of the Atlantic Road corridor and some officially deferred schemes like Cork - Midleton and Newlands Cross together with deferred and ppp sections of the N11 . Cork and Galway rings too.

So the M20 might go ahead? If so it would explain even more why the N21 Adare Bypass is to be rolled into that scheme.

If those projects go ahead, and the Interconnector in Dublin (with DART extensions) well then I'd say there isn't much grounds for complaining in the current economic circumstances.

mysterious · 07-04-2009 02:24PM

This bull**** is getting on my nerves.

Guys, there is money. Money just doesn't dissapear. It's printed all the time. There is more money than there was 6months ago.

The ELites fools us with this bull**** reality that we keep yapping up to.
Money is there, it didn't burn, it didn't dissapear. Money is fake. Money is another way to control us. If it isn't treaties, if it isn't wars, if it isn't laws, if it the bull**** they inform on the news or if it isn't what the hell.

It's now economic recession. Another way to blind and control us. What do you know here we are sucking it up.

MONEY IS THERE.:mad: snap out of this crap please.:o

Bards · 07-04-2009 03:29PM

mysterious wrote: »

This bull**** is getting on my nerves.

Guys, there is money. Money just doesn't dissapear. It's printed all the time. There is more money than there was 6months ago.

The ELites fools us with this bull**** reality that we keep yapping up to.
Money is there, it didn't burn, it didn't dissapear. Money is fake. Money is another way to control us. If it isn't treaties, if it isn't wars, if it isn't laws, if it the bull**** they inform on the news or if it isn't what the hell.

It's now economic recession. Another way to blind and control us. What do you know here we are sucking it up.

MONEY IS THERE.:mad: snap out of this crap please.:o

... and do you know what will happen if they print more money????

prices will rise, inflation will spin out of control. You cannot just print money without someting to back it up (e.g Gold hence the Gold Standard) . African nations have tried to do this, so did Germany, and the consequences were that people needed a wheelbarrow full of currency just to buy a loaf of bread

we all don't live in some mysterious place, but do live in the real World

Irish and Proud · 07-04-2009 08:55PM

mysterious wrote: »

This bull**** is getting on my nerves.

Guys, there is money. Money just doesn't dissapear. It's printed all the time. There is more money than there was 6months ago.

The ELites fools us with this bull**** reality that we keep yapping up to.
Money is there, it didn't burn, it didn't dissapear. Money is fake. Money is another way to control us. (EXACTLY, about time someone worked that one out!) If it isn't treaties, if it isn't wars, if it isn't laws, if it the bull**** they inform on the news or if it isn't what the hell. (Yes indeed... it's all about control!)

It's now economic recession. Another way to blind and control us. What do you know here we are sucking it up. (...of course, economic cycles are just an illusion!)

MONEY IS THERE.:mad: snap out of this crap please.:o

As per my comments above, you are absolutely right mate - if there is no money, there are quite simply no paper tokens representing the various resources and services available around the globe. In Ireland, if there is no money at all, does that mean we all have to starve - of course not, given all the fertile land we have to grow our food.

If the system of money around the world completely collapses, then we will all just have to get over ourselves and use the global resources responsibly - like getting rid of built-in obsolesence in our products and banning shoddy construction - for example, cars used to last up to 20 years - TVs could last about 15 years. Indeed, our roads used to last longer - look at the Swords By-pass - surface laid in 1984 (25 years!). Just think of how less people would have to work in order to have the above - and the dramatic contribution towards tackling climate change. With responsibility, just think of the possibility of redistributing wealth around the world – there is more than enough resources there to cater for everyone's needs - we just need to waste less and live more!

People say "if we reduce the world economy, just think about all the jobs" - but of course, that's complete rubbish, because people wouldn't have to work as many hours in order to live the lives we desire - in addition to the above, much of our food can be sourced locally (how many man hours would we then need to put food on the table?) - if we substitute money with man hours - I think what both Mysterious and myself are saying would make far more sense.

Money in its current form is a deception - it's a mechanism for controlling people in order to amass great amounts of wealth for a few. I guess the people who invented money would turn in their graves - money was invented in order to ease the awkwardness of bartering. It is baffling to see the way in which money has been distorted and abused!

Regards!

Geogregor · 07-04-2009 11:58PM

Is this thread still about infrastructure?

mysterious · 08-04-2009 01:27AM

Geogregor wrote: »

Is this thread still about infrastructure?

Yeah since money is our god, we rise to it. We fall to it.

We build roads for money. We have infastructire for it. We are nothing without money:rolleyes: Your life is a nothing and I mean nothing without money.

So yeah there you say it, we can't talk about anything without money. We are talking on this thread about infrastructure, and it has to be created with money.

The money is designed to keep the rich and powerful in control. They use this monetary system to control us. That everything costs money. Everything you do costs money. Everything you want to do cost money. Everything you eat cost money. Your dreams and wishes cost money.

The funny thing about this illusion is,
You live for it, you aspire for it, you fight for it and you die for it.
Then you bring off spring too the world, to repeat the same nonsense reality we are been fed on.

It's a complete and utter illusion.

mysterious · 08-04-2009 01:35AM

Bards wrote: »

... and do you know what will happen if they print more money????

prices will rise, inflation will spin out of control. You cannot just print money without someting to back it up (e.g Gold hence the Gold Standard) . African nations have tried to do this, so did Germany, and the consequences were that people needed a wheelbarrow full of currency just to buy a loaf of bread

we all don't live in some mysterious place, but do live in the real World

Money is an illusion, it isn't of any value. We put value onto it, that is where the illusion comes into place.

Like I can now say, a rock, is valuable. So we the sheep want it. Cus we have fallen for this illusion that rocks is valuble.

The people who create this illusion run your world, and your "real" world I should say. You live and die for this "physical thing" we operate for it. We need to the point of surviving.

Your born into a world, judged by how much money you make.
It's actually really sad. You spend the rest of your life paying debts to banks. The banks bascially own you. Half the world is in debt. Most of this country is in debt.

But then again, it's all imaginary. Cus no one really own's anything on this planet

But I will give you on bit of a reality check. The Rothschild/Rockerfeller and money printers/federal reserve own everything you have and own you:p

Your using there money to operate your life;)

mysterious · 08-04-2009 01:43AM

Irish and Proud wrote: »

As per my comments above, you are absolutely right mate - if there is no money, there are quite simply no paper tokens representing the various resources and services available around the globe. In Ireland, if there is no money at all, does that mean we all have to starve - of course not, given all the fertile land we have to grow our food.

Yes that's the illusion of money. We are all depressed by this false state of reality.

I can't live as comfortably as I did 6 months ago, why? Why can't I. Because we live in a system that controls and dictates our lives.

No money,
The world panicks.:rolleyes:

If the system of money around the world completely collapses, then we will all just have to get over ourselves and use the global resources responsibly -

It's going to happen. It's going to be the end of money. The bankers and elites think they are on the ball:D

With this "cycle" and "control"
But we human sometime gets so full of ourselves we forget that the ball can just roll out of our hands, it's 10,000 years of FACTS. Yet the arrogance of todays rulers, is just apathetic. I always smile at that. mother nature and the laws of the universe dictates control of reality. and light of the smile, shines even more

So in a short few words, I say let all the money bags fill, let all depopulation start, let all the wars begin and let our countries crumble. Because the very people who create these destructive reality will be cleaned and taken out. Literally. It's getting a little boring with history repeating, all because of oozzing arrogance of some incompetent rulers of the planet.

Yes they are masonarys, they are the ruling familes in England/USA, the royal families, The rothschild/Rockfeller that run the finacial world. They are going to perish. Fooling with the laws of the universe.

arrogant people on this world, just keep walking into dangerous terrority.

My prediction its going to get worse, and for those who are aware, you just know the water will flow under the bridge. You actually don't need to force anything, the worst is coming I'm afraid.

and the dramatic contribution towards tackling climate change. With responsibility, just think of the possibility of redistributing wealth around the world – there is more than enough resources there to cater for everyone's needs - we just need to waste less and live more!

The elites are not tackling climate change, because the solar system is heating up. Solar flares are rising. The only thing they are interesting in is taxing you. Another term of money eh.

People say "if we reduce the world economy, just think about all the jobs" - but of course, that's complete rubbish, because people wouldn't have to work as many hours in order to live the lives we desire - in addition to the above, much of our food can be sourced locally (how many man hours would we then need to put food on the table?) - if we substitute money with man hours - I think what both Mysterious and myself are saying would make far more sense.

Money is about unbalance and power. It doesn't work well with reality and nature. Life and the universe didn't cost anything. It's infinite, so nothing on earth should actually cost anything. If you don't cost anything to be born, you don't need to buy anything while here.

Money in its current form is a deception - it's a mechanism for controlling people in order to amass great amounts of wealth for a few. I guess the people who invented money would turn in their graves - money was invented in order to ease the awkwardness of bartering. It is baffling to see the way in which money has been distorted and abused!

Regards!

Exactly

Typewriter · 08-04-2009 02:13AM

That's deep man.

Geogregor · 08-04-2009 11:38PM

Yep, that's deep crap men.

Amtmann · 08-04-2009 11:49PM

Tech3 · 19-04-2009 01:56PM

mysterious wrote: »

The N21 is TOTOS, not really good layout IMO. Since the N21 has to swing around the roundabout, thus been greater traffic numbers, it's a bit stupid.

They should swing the roundabout more mainline for N21 and swing the N23 veer to the left.

here is a (crappy) drawing that would have been a better design for the bypass preventing N21 traffic to yield at this junction also pushing local Castleisland traffic onto the Kilarney traffic to merge. A bridge is necessary as its a 2+2 road on the mainline N21.

What do ye all make of it? Well I know it will still be an at-grade rounabout with all four roads meeting but this design would have made a lot more sense imo.

Tech3 · 19-04-2009 02:11PM

mysterious wrote: »

Yes that's the illusion of money. We are all depressed by this false state of reality.

I can't live as comfortably as I did 6 months ago, why? Why can't I. Because we live in a system that controls and dictates our lives.

Not necessarily. Its up to the human being himself to dicate their own life. Credit is available, its up to the person to defy how much he/her can have. Cash is the only way to determine classes in society.

mysterious · 19-04-2009 06:31PM

tech2 wrote: »

Not necessarily. Its up to the human being himself to dicate their own life. Credit is available, its up to the person to defy how much he/her can have. Cash is the only way to determine classes in society.

Just some people already dictate your life, and it is made unaware.

Money is not real, we put value on it, we worship it, we need it and we have to pay to live on this planet.

You call earth a prison if you really want to look at it.

Society is poo... btw.

Tech3 · 19-04-2009 06:42PM

mysterious wrote: »

Just some people already dictate your life, and it is made unaware.

I pay tax to the government in order to have services that I need. My life is not dictated by anyone I can go and come as I choose. I have the right to do whatever I shall want to do except illegal actions.

You call earth a prison if you really want to look at it.

Society is poo... btw.

Prisoners dont need money and could you give me an alternative place where we can live besides Earth? We are in a capitalist society what alternative do you have to offer? What is wrong with the system?

mysterious · 19-04-2009 06:51PM

tech2 wrote: »

I pay tax to the government in order to have services that I need. My life is not dictated by anyone I can go and come as I choose. I have the right to do whatever I shall want to do except illegal actions.

But you pay for it.

The sun gives you daylight.

Should do we pay for it.

Hydro dam, generates electricity by water passing the turbines, why do we pay for it. Why do we pay to eat food that is grown in the soil. Who owns the soil???

Even the wording of service, denotes a system where it's someway slavery.

Not really, The world has gone PC.....so much now. people almost afraid to sh!te these day's incase someone judges you.

Prisoners dont need money and could you give me an alternative place where we can live besides Earth? We are in a capitalist society what alternative do you have to offer? What is wrong with the system?

You can be anywhere in the universe, we choosed to be here.

Capitalist soiceity naturally corrupts. It's a concept of reality where you have to be what the system is, and everything outside of it, are like cavemen. Seriously that's another topic......

Gruffalo · 19-04-2009 07:09PM

tech2 wrote: »

I pay tax to the government in order to have services that I need. My life is not dictated by anyone I can go and come as I choose. I have the right to do whatever I shall want to do except illegal actions.

Prisoners dont need money and could you give me an alternative place where we can live besides Earth? We are in a capitalist society what alternative do you have to offer? What is wrong with the system?

Check the midlands airport thread. He is looking at building a space centre.You gotta love mysterious, he is always providing you with options.

Steviemak · 19-04-2009 07:29PM

Interesting article in the Business Post suggesting the government will source infrastructure funds from the various pension schemes.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=41199-qqqx=1.asp

Tech3 · 19-04-2009 08:52PM

Steviemak wrote: »

Interesting article in the Business Post suggesting the government will source infrastructure funds from the various pension schemes.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=41199-qqqx=1.asp

Its a good idea if its implemented correctly. Huge projects such as the M17/N18 can be progressed a lot more rapidly knowing it can get funded. I am very interested in how this will go as it will be a huge boost to the west of the country if it was to proceed next year. Also I use the N17 and N18 often so it would also be personal gain

Sponge Bob · 19-04-2009 09:45PM

It actually means that the pension funds tend to decide what gets built not the government . Thats a go code for the Dublin Outer Orbital more than the M17 or the M20 .

Amtmann · 19-04-2009 09:58PM

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It actually means that the pension funds tend to decide what gets built not the government . Thats a go code for the Dublin Outer Orbital more than the M17 or the M20 .

Really, is that the new priority according to your sources SpongeBob? I have certain reservations about the proposed scale of and perceived immediate need for the M20.

Chris_533976 · 19-04-2009 10:05PM

I can still see the N17/18 going ahead, if just to appease the Wesht.

Amtmann · 19-04-2009 10:14PM

I think that as far as roads are concerned, the Newlands Cross upgrade and the Cork SRR (including Dunkettle) freeflows should be prioritised...along with the Galway and Claregalway bypasses of course. But these don't seem to feature very prominently on the NRA's to-do list at all, even though they would deliver massive improvements to the network, notwithstanding their relative smallness on a kilometre basis.

The market will decide if the M20 and M17/18 motorways go ahead anytime soon. Frankly, given how things are, I don't mind terribly if they're delayed.

Infrastructure cuts discussed for the next budget

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