Infrastructure cuts discussed for the next budget

Tech3

I was reading through an article of the Indepenent this evening, infrastructure cuts could be on the cards in the new budget. They couldnt just end an uncompleted scheme could they?

A reduction in the planned €8bn spend on infrastructure is also thought to be likely.

"There's €8bn sitting in the capital budget and I can't imagine it will remain untouched," a government source said.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget-tax-blitz-1660268.html

Irish and Proud

tech2 wrote: »

I was reading through an article of the Indepenent this evening, infrastructure cuts could be on the cards in the new budget. They couldnt just end an uncompleted scheme could they?



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget-tax-blitz-1660268.html

...well there are always the economies that can be found in reduced land prices and construction costs.

Now, to be blunt:

1) Scrap Metro North and West - we can't afford it - simple!

2) Concentrate on the Line BX and Line D Luas projects and prioritise a new D1 Line (to Finglas and N2-M50)

2) Defer the Interconnector till after 2012 and instead, concentrate on quad-tracking the Northern Line as well as constructing a new surface spur line to the Airport.

3) Strategic Upgrade of all major radial roads in Dublin so that they carry at least 2 lanes each way (widening bottlenecks etc). Once this is done, gradually introduce a parking ban before 10am in the city centre between the canals after extensive provision of P+R sites outside the M50. These two measures should pave the way for a much more efficient bus service, which in turn would be opened to more robust competition.

4) Get on with the AWC, M17/M18 and M20 motorways. Also, the M6 Galway Bypass, M11 Arklow to Rathnew, N7 Newlands Cross, and N25 CSRR Interchanges should proceed. These projects will help to boost economic activity, especially when the economic upturn comes about.

Have to go now!

mysterious

Irish and Proud wrote: »

...well there are always the economies that can be found in reduced land prices and construction costs.

Now, to be blunt:

1) Scrap Metro North and West - we can't afford it - simple!

2) Concentrate on the Line BX and Line D Luas projects and prioritise a new D1 Line (to Finglas and N2-M50)

2) Defer the Interconnector till after 2012 and instead, concentrate on quad-tracking the Northern Line as well as constructing a new surface spur line to the Airport.

3) Strategic Upgrade of all major radial roads in Dublin so that they carry at least 2 lanes each way (widening bottlenecks etc). Once this is done, gradually introduce a parking ban before 10am in the city centre between the canals after extensive provision of P+R sites outside the M50. These two measures should pave the way for a much more efficient bus service, which in turn would be opened to more robust competition.

4) Get on with the AWC, M17/M18 and M20 motorways. Also, the M6 Galway Bypass, M11 Arklow to Rathnew, N7 Newlands Cross, and N25 CSRR Interchanges should proceed. These projects will help to boost economic activity, especially when the economic upturn comes about.

Have to go now!

The Cork southern ring roads wont go ahead thats for sure. Not all of the entire Galway bypass will finish right away either. Arklow section will probably be put on the back burner for a while.

The only ones I see going ahead, is the Gort - Athenry, One scheme on the M20 and newlands cross and the CastleIsland scheme.

paulm17781

The Kildare 4 tracking becomes nearly pointless without the interconnector. It is the most vital piece of rail infrastructure proposed. MN and IC should go ahead, they can scrap T21 after that for all I care (neither of them affect me directly, Dublin needs them).

dcr22B

Irish and Proud wrote: »

2) Defer the Interconnector till after 2012 and instead, concentrate on quad-tracking the Northern Line as well as constructing a new surface spur line to the Airport.

Not possible given the fact that there is no land available to do this between Connolly and Howth Junction!

Chris_533976

As for roads, Castleisland is apparently going ahead this year, not sure if it actually will or not though.

The four PPPs are the most likely to go ahead soon. These are -

M17/M18 Gort - Athenry - Tuam bypass
M11/N25 Enniscorthy and New Ross
M20 Southern Section
M20 Northern Section

The M17/18 scheme is out to tender at the moment. If this does well, I suspect the others will go faster, if the 17/18 fails then forget about roads until we're out of this depressio.

Irish and Proud

dcr22B wrote: »

Not possible given the fact that there is no land available to do this between Connolly and Howth Junction!

Use box cuttings, embankments - as a daily user of the Northern Line, I guess that very little land would be required using such construction methods.

Now, I'm contradicting an earlier post I made when I suggested that a tunnel would be the best solution to increasing Northern Line capacity, as box construction methods would affect too many properties. However, the time for luxuries are over, and property is much less important now, so getting the job (quad-tracking) done should be the sole priority.

In general, critical infrastructure must come before the issues relating to property - we as a nation must become more competitive in the short term.

Regards!

Mayo Exile

The economist Sean Barrett has called for the abandonment of the Interconnector (as well as postponing/cancelling MN) as a link already exists between Heuston and Connolly stations via the Phoenix Park. Does his argument have merit considering the state of the economy? How much would it cost to upgrade this existing link as opposed to the construction costs of a new Interconnector?

How many members of the public actually know that there IS a connection between Heuston and Connolly?

L1011

Mayo Exile wrote: »

The economist Sean Barrett has called for the abandonment of the Interconnector (as well as postponing/cancelling MN) as a link already exists between Heuston and Connolly stations via the Phoenix Park. Does his argument have merit considering the state of the economy? How much would it cost to upgrade this existing link as opposed to the construction costs of a new Interconnector?

How many members of the public actually know that there IS a connection between Heuston and Connolly?

Its not suitable for electrification and doesn't meet current railway safety recommendations (its single bore). It won't serve Pearse, Docklands or connection with the Green line. It requires either using Platform 10 (with its massive long walk) or reversing out of the main body of Heuston.

Its not a runner for doing what the Interconnector is meant to do. Its perfectly viable for having a small number of diesel hauled services between Heuston and Connolly; but we have the 90 and Luas for that kind of transfer as it is

BendiBus

Mayo Exile wrote: »

The economist Sean Barrett has called for the abandonment of the Interconnector (as well as postponing/cancelling MN) as a link already exists between Heuston and Connolly stations via the Phoenix Park. Does his argument have merit considering the state of the economy? How much would it cost to upgrade this existing link as opposed to the construction costs of a new Interconnector?

How many members of the public actually know that there IS a connection between Heuston and Connolly?

Sean Barrett has always hated public transport.

paulm17781

BendiBus wrote: »

Sean Barrett has always hated public transport.

He was the one who said the Luas would be a catastrophic failure wasn't he?

BendiBus

paulm17781 wrote: »

He was the one who said the Luas would be a catastrophic failure wasn't he?

No idea. I stopped listening to him long before Luas was a twinkle in Mary O'Rourkes eye :pac:

spacetweek

OP, I read that article already; it's very vague, and just says what we already knew: Money is tight, and ring-fencing in Ireland often fails, so there's always the possibility that transport might get cut after all. Resisting the urge to cut it is very hard when you have so many competing interests. I'm amazed the cut for 2009 (7%) was so small in light of our monetary situation - and in any case, it's still the same number of projects, as the purchasing power has increased due to reduced costs.

If it came to the worst and large scale scrappage happened, the only two projects we really really need are Metro North and the Interconnector. The rest is window dressing.

serfboard

tech2 wrote: »

They couldnt just end an uncompleted scheme could they?

Let's imagine you're right and they could. So any project not already started (Castleisland, Newland's Cross, M17/18/20, Interconnector, Metro North etc.) is dead. Which existing ones would they stop? Or, which ones would they complete? I'd imagine anything that's due to finish this year is a cert - but what about other ones?

Guesstimated Definite Finishers/Continuers:

Road
M3 (almost finished and in the Minister's constituency )
M4 - Leixlip->M50 (09 finish)
M6 - Athlone->Ballinasloe (almost finished)
M7 - Nenagh->Limerick has an 09 finish, but considering the problems it has had???
M8 - Mitchelstown->Fermoy (almost finished)
M9 - Knocktopher->Waterford (09 finish)
M25 - Waterford Bypass (too high profile to stop)
M50 - Too necessary and high profile to stop
N52 - Tullamore Bypass (Taoiseach's fiefdom constituency :P)

So, Armageddon situation, could they halt works on everything else - presuming that PPP projects get some kind of subsidy already?

Rail
Kildare Quad-Track
Luas to Point (almost finished)
Luas to CityWest (Mike Murphy's paying for a good chunk of it)

Bus
Bus Corridor in Limerick to Coonagh Cross (how much does it cost to paint the rest of the road? )
Bus Corridor north of Claregalway (presuming that's what they're doing there now?)

I'd be interested in hearing other estimates/opinions.

Tech3

serfboard wrote: »

Let's imagine you're right and they could. So any project not already started (Castleisland, Newland's Cross, M17/18/20, Interconnector, Metro North etc.) is dead. Which existing ones would they stop? Or, which ones would they complete? I'd imagine anything that's due to finish this year is a cert - but what about other ones?

Guesstimated Definite Finishers/Continuers:

Road
M3 (almost finished and in the Minister's constituency )
M4 - Leixlip->M50 (09 finish)
M6 - Athlone->Ballinasloe (almost finished)
M7 - Nenagh->Limerick has an 09 finish, but considering the problems it has had???
M8 - Mitchelstown->Fermoy (almost finished)
M9 - Knocktopher->Waterford (09 finish)
M25 - Waterford Bypass (too high profile to stop)
M50 - Too necessary and high profile to stop
N52 - Tullamore Bypass (Taoiseach's fiefdom constituency :P).

I cant see any of the inter urbans being halted. The castleisland bypass isint progressing too well at the moment. More than half of the landowers havnt been bought off yet. I'm starting to have doubts about that one.

serfboard wrote: »

So, Armageddon situation, could they halt works on everything else - presuming that PPP projects get some kind of subsidy already?

Bus
Bus Corridor in Limerick to Coonagh Cross (how much does it cost to paint the rest of the road? )
Bus Corridor north of Claregalway (presuming that's what they're doing there now?)

I'd be interested in hearing other estimates/opinions

Limerick to coonagh roundabout would be more than just putting down lines. The whole road will be resurfaced just like the first section of it.
Yeah the bus lane north of claregalway is being done at the moment and theres no way that will be halted

L1011

serfboard wrote: »

Rail
Kildare Quad-Track
Luas to Point (almost finished)
Luas to CityWest (Mike Murphy's paying for a good chunk of it)

few more rail projects are absolutely not going to be cut:

Dunboyne - ministers constituency
Mitchesltown - nearly finished
WRC Phase 1 - too far along
Luas Cherrywood - too far along

Typewriter

MYOB wrote: »

few more rail projects are absolutely not going to be cut:

Dunboyne - ministers constituency
Mitchesltown - nearly finished
WRC Phase 1 - too far along
Luas Cherrywood - too far along

Mitchelstown???:eek:

How did i miss that one?:rolleyes::P

mysterious

Also in the cuts for next year

• Reducing the ministers salary by 10%.
• Get rid of our super jets and helicoptors, get used to travelling in cars around the country, Mary and Biffo, your obviously showing your weight in this way.
• Also bring up the amount of hours put into the dail. Currently T.D work less hours than Primary school teachers.
• Also actually stop fannying about with new NDPs and complete what's on the plan first time around, so we don't have to spend millions more re issuing a new Transport plan.

If they could get this right, maybe we wouldn't have to cut so much infastructure, and no I'm no kidding.

marmurr1916

serfboard wrote: »

Let's imagine you're right and they could. So any project not already started (Castleisland, Newland's Cross, M17/18/20, Interconnector, Metro North etc.) is dead. Which existing ones would they stop? Or, which ones would they complete? I'd imagine anything that's due to finish this year is a cert - but what about other ones?

Guesstimated Definite Finishers/Continuers:

Road
M3 (almost finished and in the Minister's constituency )
M4 - Leixlip->M50 (09 finish)
M6 - Athlone->Ballinasloe (almost finished)
M7 - Nenagh->Limerick has an 09 finish, but considering the problems it has had???
M8 - Mitchelstown->Fermoy (almost finished)
M9 - Knocktopher->Waterford (09 finish)
M25 - Waterford Bypass (too high profile to stop)
M50 - Too necessary and high profile to stop
N52 - Tullamore Bypass (Taoiseach's fiefdom constituency :P)

You can be absolutely certain that all the major inter-urbans will be completed in full, as will the M3, N25 (not M25) Waterford bypass, the M50 upgrade and the N18 (maybe M18 if it's redesignated) from Gort to Crusheen.

Work is far too advanced on these schemes to be stopped now. The money's already been committed and is as good as spent anyway. It's possible that the Limerick-Nenagh section of the M7 won't be finished by the end of 2009 but the completion date for the major inter-urbans isn't until the end of 2010 anyway. Plus, it seems that any hold-ups on that are due to problems with sub-contractors rather than budget cutbacks.

serfboard wrote: »

Rail
Kildare Quad-Track
Luas to Point (almost finished)
Luas to CityWest (Mike Murphy's paying for a good chunk of it)

Thank God. Fingers crossed that at least the Interconnector gets through: absolutely vital piece of railway infrastructure.

serfboard wrote: »

Bus
Bus Corridor in Limerick to Coonagh Cross (how much does it cost to paint the rest of the road? )
Bus Corridor north of Claregalway (presuming that's what they're doing there now?)

Don't know much about those.

mumhaabu

Concerning railways can I also throw in Full electrification of all the commuter rail lines to Dublin with faster more regular services and also a new high speed line serving, Belfast>Dublin>to Limerick and Cork. The mainline from Cork to Dublin is a disgrace and we need to move towards full electrification and far greater efficiency in our railways.

Sponge Bob

Everything not under contract is as dead as the Dodo , proposed N18/N17 and separate N20 PPP projects too.

The N7 will not be finished by 2010 , 2012 would be the best case scenario for that now .

Irish and Proud

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Everything not under contract is as dead as the Dodo , proposed N18/N17 and separate N20 PPP projects too.

The N7 will not be finished by 2010 , 2012 would be the best case scenario for that now .

With the type of motorway PPPs the NRA are proposing, there'll be little expenditure on the part of the state in the short term. However, securing private funding will depend on the country's economic credibility IMO. Any investor will wonder about the likelihood of the state defaulting on its payments (on such PPP contracts) over the course of 30 years. It's really like a mortgage with the state acting as the homebuyer and private enterprise acting as the bank. Financial Security will be key I guess!

As for the Metro North:

R I P

The inter-connector will happen later rather than sooner I guess - but I do think it will have to happen sometime, due to the massive economies of scale - with the subsequent increase of output on existing rail routes.

As for eastern by-pass, only sea level rises might see this project realised when a dyke will have to be built across Sandymount Strand anyway - like 2050+ !

Regards! :cool:

Tech3

Its looking more likely that the government are going to halt the Castleisland bypass after reading this article from the kerryman today.

THE future of the Castleisland bypass is once again in doubt following government instructions to Kerry County Council not to enter into any contractual agreements regarding the proposed works.

With the government's forthcoming mini-budget expected to see the postponement of all road projects that are not already underway, Kerry County Council has confirmed that no funding has yet been secured for the Castleisland project, and that the council has been ordered by the Department of Finance not to enter into any contract without its approval.

Kerry County Council Director of Roads, Charlie O'Sullivan, explained that the council met with the successful tender two weeks ago and has since submitted the tender report to the National Roads Authority. This report, he said, must now go to the Department of Finance approval.

Mr O'Sullivan confirmed, however, that despite the tender documents being with the NRA, Kerry County Council has been instructed not to enter into any contractual agreements until funding is approved.

The threat to the project was highlighted at Monday's meeting of Kerry County Council by Independent Councillor Brendan Cronin. He said that weekend media reports stated the minibudget will see the scrapping of all projects not already under construction.

South Kerry councillor, Danny Healy Rae, moved to dispel his concerns, telling the meeting that his father

this

week

for — independent TD Jackie Healy Rae ( pictured left) — had received assurances that the project would go ahead. He said that Deputy Healy Rae is confident that the government will 'live up to its promise' and deliver on the Castleisland bypass.

Castleisland councillor Bobby O'Connell — who has been extremely vocal in campaigning for the bypass — strongly rejected claims that the south Kerry TD had secured the project. He agreed with Cllr Pat McCarthy's proposal that Kerry County Council write to all sitting TDs and senators immediately to ensure they make put pressure on the government to make the project a priority.

http://www.kerryman.ie/news/castleisland-bypass-in-doubt-as-contract-talks-put-on-hold-1668601.html

marmurr1916

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The N7 will not be finished by 2010 , 2012 would be the best case scenario for that now .

Evidence please.

BluntGuy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Everything not under contract is as dead as the Dodo , proposed N18/N17 and separate N20 PPP projects too.

The N7 will not be finished by 2010 , 2012 would be the best case scenario for that now .

Don't agree with 2012, but I can certainly see mid-2011.

As for N17/N18, you're right, there's a good chance of it flopping, and if that happens, we can kiss the M20 goodbye.

L1011

green_jesus wrote: »

Mitchelstown???:eek:

How did i miss that one?:rolleyes::P

Midleton, oops. I don't know cork that well !

Sponge Bob

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Evidence please.

Follow the money !

bluntguy wrote:

Don't agree with 2012, but I can certainly see mid-2011.

It will be in court until 2011 and then a year or so to finish !

marmurr1916

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Follow the money! It will be in court until 2011 and then a year or so to finish !

I doubt it.

Tech3

Castleisland bypass is going ahead, hopefully no more p***ing around with it :D:D

The Department of Finance has given the green light to the Castleisland Bypass. The National Roads Authority has received approval from the Department of Finance to proceed with the tender process. The project was allocated €10m in the 2009 National Roads Programme, the only new national road project to go to construction in 2009 under the funding allocation.

At Kerry County Council’s March meeting, Director of Roads, Transportation and Safety, Charlie O’Sullivan, explained that the Council had received tenders, prepared a report and sent it to the NRA for approval. However, as a result of a directive issued by the Department of Finance, Local Authorities have been instructed not to enter into new contractual commitments without prior approval from the Department.

As a result, the project had to receive the green light from the Department before it could proceed to the next stage, which will see a contractor appointed.

for more on the bypass see this link
N21 Castleisland Bypass Thread

T Corolla

I think the solution to the capacity problems on the Northern line can be resolved. How about taking the money for the metro north and fast tracing the navan rail line to completion and reopening the Navan Drogheda line. This would allow for the enterprise to go to an hourly service and serve three major towns Navan/Drogheda/Dundalk and the space on the northern line could be used for the metro north with a spur to the airport and lissenhall

mysterious

Does anyone have a link to see a map of the Castleisland bypass I cant find it anywhere, it will be interesting to see the road layout, at the N23 intersects here.

N21 really does need attention though. Adare and NCW are very very congested at peak times. The road going through NCW is horrid.

At least CastleIsland is getting bypassed so it's good news. And it will benfet tourists too. Castlieisland is dreadful to get lost in since all roads a are daggered. Trucks get juaggernauted in the right turns in the town. There was a crash 3years ago where a truck ran straight into a building causing massive damage. There is a very valid reason for the bypass and not just a political one.

Yeah yeah I know Castleisland is fianna fail town. But Bertie did promise a bypass here:p To my recollection it was like 6years ago or that.

Tech3

mysterious wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to see a map of the Castleisland bypass I cant find it anywhere, it will be interesting to see the road layout, at the N23 intersects here.

N21 really does need attention though. Adare and NCW are very very congested at peak times. The road going through NCW is horrid.

At least CastleIsland is getting bypassed so it's good news. And it will benfet tourists too. Castlieisland is dreadful to get lost in since all roads a are daggered. Trucks get juaggernauted in the right turns in the town. There was a crash 3years ago where a truck ran straight into a building causing massive damage. There is a very valid reason for the bypass and not just a political one.

Yeah yeah I know Castleisland is fianna fail town. But Bertie did promise a bypass here:p To my recollection it was like 6years ago or that.

I have the map posted on the kerry forum and a thread dedicated to the bypass(check my previous post on this thread). Yes its about time its being done especially for the people of Kerry who have had to endure this far too long.

The map can be found on the kerry countil council website also, thats where I located it. Heres the link Castleisland bypass brouchure. N21 side is going to constructed 2+2, N23 single carriageway. At-grade roundabouts for the two junctions. Btw would you read previous posts.

mysterious

tech2 wrote: »

I have the map posted on the kerry forum and a thread dedicated to the bypass(check my previous post on this thread). Yes its about time its being done especially for the people of Kerry who have had to endure this far too long.

The map can be found on the kerry countil council website also, thats where I located it. Heres the link Castleisland bypass brouchure. N21 side is going to constructed 2+2, N23 single carriageway. At-grade roundabouts for the two junctions. Btw would you read previous posts.

The N21 is TOTOS, not really good layout IMO. Since the N21 has to swing around the roundabout, thus been greater traffic numbers, it's a bit stupid.

They should swing the roundabout more mainline for N21 and swing the N23 veer to the left.

spacetweek

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Everything not under contract is as dead as the Dodo , proposed N18/N17 and separate N20 PPP projects too.

The N7 will not be finished by 2010 , 2012 would be the best case scenario for that now .

So, the usual unsubstantiated nonsense then.

Tech3

mysterious wrote: »

The N21 is TOTOS, not really good layout IMO. Since the N21 has to swing around the roundabout, thus been greater traffic numbers, it's a bit stupid.

They should swing the roundabout more mainline for N21 and swing the N23 veer to the left.

The donegal bypass design is very similar(primary and secondary route at junction) to this with probably more traffic. Been on it several times during rush hour and it functions well with all the roundabouts. It shouldnt be a problem IMO. The N23 draws as much traffic if not even more at times.

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to see a map of the Castleisland bypass I cant find it anywhere, it will be interesting to see the road layout, at the N23 intersects here.

Well there's a very nice map of it on Michelin's site as they jumped the gun and are already showing it as complete

mike65

Update
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0324/1224243317036.html

Road schemes affected

Two schemes between Kells, Co Meath and Belturbet, Co Cavan on the N3

Three schemes on the N2 between Ashbourne and Co Monaghan

Three schemes on the N4 between Mullingar and Castlebaldwin

Three schemes on the N16 in counties Sligo, Leitrim and Cavan

Four schemes between Longford and Westport on the N5

Six schemes on the N25 between New Ross, Co Wexford and the Cork Southern Ring

Four schemes on the N13/N14/N15 group of roads in the northwest

Five schemes on the N22 between Tralee and Cork

Seven schemes on the N24 in Co Tipperary

23 schemes on national secondary roads.

These schemes will not now go ahead unless specifically sanctioned by the Department of Finance.

bill_ashmount

The curb will also extend to road maintenance where contracts for items such as road resurfacing will also need to be pre-approved by the Department of Finance.

:eek: Things are getting fairly tight.

The only exception to the Government’s edict is to be the 6km Castleisland bypass in Co Kerry, sanctioned by the Department of Finance on March 19th. Credit for the sanction was yesterday claimed by the Independent Kerry TD Jackie Healy Rae, who said he had used his position as a Government supporter to “at all times put the interest of the people [of Kerry] first”. He said the Opposition should “stop trying to jeopardise the further items that I have an agreement on”.

JHR strikes again......

leitrim lad

in my opinion and your welcome to set me strait if you think im wrong ,but i think the government should sell the roads that need to be built to consortiums , who could construct the roads and possibly rail lines including metro and other major schemes , and buy them back from the consortiums over 20 or 30 years, this would create employment in construction again and help the exchequer , anyone with me on this

Road-Hog

It is already doing this with the PPP projects

leitrim lad

i know that i have allocated work for my own company on ppp projects but why not let all infastructure projects go that way until times get better and they actually do have the money on the hip to fund themselves

BluntGuy

These cuts come as no surprise. The NRA have already gone PPP on the biggest projects.

IF (and that's a BIG "if") Metro North is to go ahead next year as planned then road funding needs to be slashed.

Chris_533976

Absolute guesswork states that Metro North / Interconnector wont be touched until the interurbans are finished and that chunk of the budget is freed up (and hopefully not decimated)

serfboard

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Absolute guesswork states that Metro North / Interconnector wont be touched until the interurbans are finished and that chunk of the budget is freed up (and hopefully not decimated)

Seems like a fairly reasonable guess to make. And by the time the interurbans are finished who knows - the IMF might be running the show :eek:

Irish and Proud

serfboard wrote: »

Seems like a fairly reasonable guess to make. And by the time the interurbans are finished who knows - the IMF might be running the show :eek:

...having sacked most of the TDs, Regulators, and Banking Execs and having foreclosed on all their private assets!

Sick of the lot of them! :mad:

Regards!

Sponge Bob

serfboard wrote: »

And by the time the interurbans are finished who knows - the IMF might be running the show :eek:

Actually the IMF may well be calling the shots before the Interurbans are finished .

There is a 60% likelihood that they will be called in to make those politically unpalatable ( but necessary ) decisions before the end of 2010 . It was maybe a 20% likelihood as late as the end of last summer .

Some posters around here seem to have issues with what I have long been saying , but I will repeat it yet again for those who are capable of learning .

" There Is NO Money "

Simple!

mysterious

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Actually the IMF may well be calling the shots before the Interurbans are finished .

There is a 60% likelihood that they will be called in to make those politically unpalatable ( but necessary ) decisions before the end of 2010 . It was maybe a 20% likelihood as late as the end of last summer .

Some posters around here seem to have issues with what I have long been saying , but I will repeat it yet again for those who are capable of learning .

" There Is NO Money "

Simple!

No money is an illusion. Money is printed all the time. If the bankers can't start a war, they create panick and global recessions.

It's all in the head. Everyone is whacked in the head because of it. Money never dissapears.;)

Money is the work of the devil, it maybe needed for now. But it's something that we use that circulates. Therefore does not dissapear.

bg07

mysterious wrote: »

No money is an illusion. Money is printed all the time. If the bankers can't start a war, they create panick and global recessions.

It's all in the head. Everyone is whacked in the head because of it. Money never dissapears.;)

Money is the work of the devil, it maybe needed for now. But it's something that we use that circulates. Therefore does not dissapear.

In a small open economy money disappears all the time when people buy goods or services from an outside country. The money only comes back when people from other countries buy our goods and services. If the money going out is much greater than the money coming in then you have a big problem like we do now.

mysterious

bg07 wrote: »

In a small open economy money disappears all the time when people buy goods or services from an outside country. The money only comes back when people from other countries buy our goods and services. If the money going out is much greater than the money coming in then you have a big problem like we do now.

Thats not whats happening now I can assure you of that. It is a purporseful creation, and if you say that about Ireland, where all the money is leaving our country, it's then would be logic that the same is happening in every other country all over the globe. It's a worldwide recession.

So where is the money;)

This should give you an idea, of whats really going on.

bg07

Well for the last few years everyone in the country has being borrowing and this made up for the lack of money coming into the country by selling goods and services. Borrowing is no longer an option which is as much to do with external problems as internal ones. The problem with debt is that although the physical amount of money is fixed the amount of debt is not. Debt can continue growing and growing until people stop being able to repay it. That’s the problem that is across the world now.

Anyway for the purposes of this thread it is not important where the money is. What is very clear, irrespective of where the money is, is that the government don’t have any. Therefore they definitely can’t be throwing it around like they used to. One of the politically easiest things for them to cut is infrastructure spending when compared to cutting hospital beds or increasing class sizes.

spacetweek

Coming back to the NRA's list of projects on hold, I'm a bit confused. The article didn't tell us anything new - just that projects can't start unless they get funded from the DoF - which was the case all along. So, no change then.

It's important to strip away the hype and misinformation from the real stuff.