International Irish bashing starts to grate

live2thewire · 05-04-2009 02:11PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Article reminds me of what the German Ambassador said a while back about Ireland (that we were coarse, avaricious and money obsessed) and while pople were offended by it, I remember people on the radio (Talk to Joe!) grudgingly admitting that he had a point.

The Times article nails the situation spot on in some respects:

We WERE run by a collection of wide boy spivs, spoofers and chancers for a good decade and 41% of us reelected last time (and 2 times before that). We, as a nation, were told by OECD etc that our economy would overheat through the property-bubble and it was unsustainable but this was laughed at. And these people warning us were considered 'jealous' and 'begrudgers' by people like McCreevy who also called these European Economists 'numerically challenged'.

The article could have been worse....I remember overhearing a British businessman at Heathrow coming back from Ireland stating that he thought the country was quote:

'Like a Janitor that just won the Lottery'

thats so mean and cruel thing to say about a whole country considering he probably didn't see any of it.

Terry · 05-04-2009 03:16PM

blackgold>> wrote: »

We have invaded countries go learn some history.... wales numerus times

Wales doesn't count.
I've an English friend who refers to Wales as "The insignificant place".

What we essentially have here is a lazy Engish journalist taking stories about pyjama wearing people from threads in AH.

International journalists using boards as inspiration for articles? Nonsense you say?

Stargal wrote: »

Seriously.

It's from the NYT's news blog and it's a piece all about the usefulness of the Irish language in Ireland today. It quotes someone from the Leaving Cert forum giving out about how Irish is mandatory.

The piece was published on March 17th when Cowen was visiting the White House, but for some reason the thread it quotes goes back to 2006. Strange.

Here's the Times article for those who want to read it:
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article5980940.ece
Some of the comments are hilarious.

Aidric · 05-04-2009 03:24PM

I read that article in last weeks Times. It really was bottom of the barrel gloating stuff. The fact that it came from a country itself teetering on the brink discredits it as such.

Acacia · 05-04-2009 03:27PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Having neighbours who are constantly criticising, analysing and mocking everything you do and taking great delight that the smug smile has been wiped from your face? Sucks don't it.

ScumLord wrote: »

We deserve it though. We where so smug about our economy and had no problem rubbing others noses in it.

ScumLord wrote: »

Not just the government no. Irish people abroad have been as bad or worse than the stereotypical American tourist in the past few years. The entire country has had it's nose in the air over the last few years.

I'm getting sick of reading this kind of stuff. How was the whole country 'smug'? Not everyone was going around in a sports car and living in mansions in D4, you know. For many people , the Celtic Tiger was simply the first time that there was a bit of stability in this country. I know it was great for my parents for example to know that they had secure jobs and that their kids could get a decent education.

Haven't we got a right to be proud of ourselves if we were doing well economically? There is not a damn thing wrong with it.

Yet again, Irish people are allowing themselves to be pushed around by the big boys. "Ah, shure, we deserve the slagging, we were too up ourselves, god, what were we thinking to have a bit of pride in ourselves."

We were the envy of Europe at one stage, and at that time, we had every right to be proud of ourselves. If other countries thought we were getting too ahead of ourselves that's their problem. And if they have to resort to cheap 'Paddy and Potato' jokes now that we're in the sh1t then fcuk 'em, I say.

Terodil · 05-04-2009 04:20PM

Acacia wrote: »

Haven't we got a right to be proud of ourselves if we were doing well economically? There is not a damn thing wrong with it.

The primary reason why Ireland was doing so well was simply the fact that it had such low labour cost compared to the rest of Europe, which made outsourcing very profitable for corporations that could handle it.

Dudess · 05-04-2009 04:33PM

Yeah, I object to the "we" did such and such malarky. On that thread about the rumoured "No Irish" sign at a building site in Poland, the same thing was being said: "Could you blame them? We treated them like sh1t".

Well I certainly didn't treat any Polish people like sh1t. Same thing now: I certainly wasn't smug or greedy or arrogant during the boom. I'm damned if I'm going to shoulder some of the responsibility just because I'm Irish.

Acacia, I'd disagree though that the international reporting of the situation is necessarily laced with gloating. Some of it is simply describing the way things are, nothing more. And it is quite newsworthy stuff. And interesting to read for people who are into economics. While you say there is a tendency among some Irish people to be all humble and simpering and unable to take praise, there is also a tendency among others to get all indignant about even what could barely be considered as criticism from those abroad - in particular, the English.

PCros · 05-04-2009 06:16PM

Those articles are English dross. They cant even write articles without the words, alcoholic, potatoes, Guinness etc etc.

Our "lovely" neighbours have been waiting for this day. They have always begrudged our success and hated the fact that Irish people were making a little money.

They were happy for many years looking down on the poor Irish people. The fact they can write such articles is mind blowing - they're worse off than us.....idiots.

05-04-2009 06:28PM

To anyone who thought that Ireland became rich, have a look at this video from moneymasters.
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6076118677860424204&ei=4enYSbKZLMHL-AbhuZG2DQ&q=moneymasters&hl=en

pablomakaveli · 05-04-2009 07:02PM

Dudess wrote: »

While you say there is a tendency among some Irish people to be all humble and simpering and unable to take praise, there is also a tendency among others to get all indignant about even what could barely be considered as criticism from those abroad - in particular, the English.

That's true but when the criticising articles contain the words "Paddies", "potato" or any reference to drink you have to call it what it is, crap.

Dudess · 05-04-2009 07:15PM

PCros wrote: »

Our "lovely" neighbours have been waiting for this day.

Have they?

They have always begrudged our success and hated the fact that Irish people were making a little money.

Have they?
I'd imagine the majority of them don't give a sh1t tbh ("they" being the entire population of England).

They were happy for many years looking down on the poor Irish people.

Again, not all of them.

The fact they can write such articles is mind blowing - they're worse off than us.....idiots.

A handful of them wrote such articles - not all the "Brits" - and the articles aren't even offensive, they're mostly just describing what happened. What's wrong with reporting on it? Newspapers need stories to fill their pages - it's not down to them having an agenda, I promise.
I'm sure they'll acknowledge fully how ****ed their economy is too.

Fratton Fred · 05-04-2009 07:41PM

Acacia wrote: »

I'm getting sick of reading this kind of stuff. How was the whole country 'smug'? Not everyone was going around in a sports car and living in mansions in D4, you know. For many people , the Celtic Tiger was simply the first time that there was a bit of stability in this country. I know it was great for my parents for example to know that they had secure jobs and that their kids could get a decent education.

Haven't we got a right to be proud of ourselves if we were doing well economically? There is not a damn thing wrong with it.

Yet again, Irish people are allowing themselves to be pushed around by the big boys. "Ah, shure, we deserve the slagging, we were too up ourselves, god, what were we thinking to have a bit of pride in ourselves."

ok, so the irish weren't smug at their perceived success.

is the following not smugness.....

Acacia wrote: »

We were the envy of Europe at one stage, and at that time, we had every right to be proud of ourselves. If other countries thought we were getting too ahead of ourselves that's their problem. And if they have to resort to cheap 'Paddy and Potato' jokes now that we're in the sh1t then fcuk 'em, I say.

The British Bastards eh? isn't it a good job the Irish support "Anyone but England" at the world cup and take every available opportunity to have a dig at England.

The only people who thought Ireland were the Envy of Europe, were the irish, as told by Fainna Fail.

This country reminded me of Bulgaria, the government would tell the people they were very well off and the poeple would believe them and vote the government back in to power. The whole of europe was telling Ireland you've got your economy wrong, you need to raise corporation tax but no, the Irish knew best.

PCros wrote: »

Those articles are English dross. They cant even write articles without the words, alcoholic, potatoes, Guinness etc etc.

Our "lovely" neighbours have been waiting for this day. They have always begrudged our success and hated the fact that Irish people were making a little money.

They were happy for many years looking down on the poor Irish people. The fact they can write such articles is mind blowing - they're worse off than us.....idiots.

Why are the Irish so obsessed with the British? no one east of Howth gives a **** about Ireland. The article in the indo would get a "Whinging little ****ers" comment and no more in the UK. This whole rivalry thing....it is one way, believe me.

Britian is not worse off than Ireland, no where near it, for the simple fact that if the UK goes under, it takes Ireland with it.

windsurfer99ie · 05-04-2009 07:49PM

darkman2 wrote: »

I agree with that article. It is a bit rich for the Brits (in particular) to be getting in our face all of a sudden - considering the mess they created for themselves. A few months ago it was water off a ducks back but I must admit I am starting to get irritated with the whole international media take on Ireland with all it's jibes about "going back to the potatoe" and all the rest. Every day there are numerous articles around the world now about us because of the economy basically taking the piss but I reckon it has actually gone beyond that. I don't mind a joke and enjoy a laugh at our expense but it is starting to go overkill at this stage IMO.

Im not saying we don't deserve some of it after giving it loads for ten years about how great we were but the anti irishness in the UK particularly has found it's excuse to come to the surface in the last year. Seems to me they are deflecting from their own huge problems by commenting on ours intentionally to make them feel better.

I'm English, living in Ireland for 12 years, visit over there from time to time and haven't detected any of this "anti Irishness" that you talk of. The "Brits" in the Sunday Times are most likely Irish - the content of the "Irish" Sunday Times is significantly different to the English and Scottish editions, and it is likely that this stuff was written for the Irish market only. For obvious reasons, the Indo constantly attempts to portray the "Irish" Sunday Times as an English newspaper. In any case, all these journalists are just trying to sell a few newspapers. What's your excuse ?

ejmaztec · 05-04-2009 07:49PM

Don't you just love these "Same sh1t different thread" threads? The Irish government loves to see the plebs not moaning about them for a change.:P

PCros · 05-04-2009 07:54PM

Dudess wrote: »

Have they?

Yes, "not all of them".

Dudess · 05-04-2009 07:57PM

I'd wager it's all in your head - and stemming from the inferiority complex many Irish people are afflicted with when it comes to "the Brits".

I'd love to see proof of this longing for Ireland to do badly supposedly entrenched in British culture - thing is, they're barely aware of us. Irish people give FAR more of a sh1t about them than they do about Irish people.

saviourgirl · 05-04-2009 07:58PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

ok, so the irish weren't smug at their perceived success.

is the following not smugness......

No, it was a fact....not smugness. Wake up

Nodin · 05-04-2009 08:05PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

This country reminded me of Bulgaria,

Brilliant analogy there.......

pablomakaveli · 05-04-2009 08:07PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

ok, so the irish weren't smug at their perceived success.

is the following not smugness.....

Nope. Smug is when you still gloat about winning the World Cup over 40 years ago against a country that has won it 3 times.

Dudess · 05-04-2009 08:15PM

Have to say the British strike me as generally a very self-deprecating people. Sure, there are awful bigots (like any society) but they tend to be thick as a brick sandwich and aren't worth paying heed to anyway...

taidghbaby · 05-04-2009 08:20PM

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

I'm English, living in Ireland for 12 years, visit over there from time to time and haven't detected any of this "anti Irishness" that you talk of. The "Brits" in the Sunday Times are most likely Irish - the content of the "Irish" Sunday Times is significantly different to the English and Scottish editions, and it is likely that this stuff was written for the Irish market only. For obvious reasons, the Indo constantly attempts to portray the "Irish" Sunday Times as an English newspaper. In any case, all these journalists are just trying to sell a few newspapers. What's your excuse ?

Never seen anti-irishness?. Well I work for an english company who have set up for the first time in Ireland recently. We have a lot of different vendors and I would say 95% of the account managers who I deal with are English!

We have brought some of these suppliers out to meet customers, and on a few occasions have been subjected to comments like "ridiculous", "i cant believe you can get away with that" and even a "you wouldn't see that on the mainland"!!

Now I know that not all English people look down on their Irish cousins but then again i'm not prone to making sweeping generalisations like certain newspaper articles! :rolleyes:

Terry · 05-04-2009 08:22PM

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

I'm English, living in Ireland for 12 years, visit over there from time to time and haven't detected any of this "anti Irishness" that you talk of. The "Brits" in the Sunday Times are most likely Irish - the content of the "Irish" Sunday Times is significantly different to the English and Scottish editions, and it is likely that this stuff was written for the Irish market only. For obvious reasons, the Indo constantly attempts to portray the "Irish" Sunday Times as an English newspaper. In any case, all these journalists are just trying to sell a few newspapers. What's your excuse ?

Quite a few of the comments on the article were made by people in Britain.

So what's the deal here?
Are we not allowed to complain about an article in a British paper slating us?
Do we just sit back and take it?

And if nobody in Britain gives a ****, then why did they take the time to read the article and then comment on it?

jonsnow · 05-04-2009 08:52PM

Over the last few months we,ve been hearing a lot of "liechtenstein-on-the-liffey"=and "reyjavik-on-the-liffey" type commentary from the British right wing press .This is rubbish of the highest order.Iceland has a population the size of cork and no membership of the EU without our level of diversification in economic activities or links with the US multinationals.I,m not saying we wont go bust just that its a remote possibility-probably just slighty more than the UK.Those iceland in 6 months jokes surfaced when four months ago and its still not a realistic prospect.The British just failed to sell government bonds while we succeeded.
Iv,e noticed that given the small scale nature of our financial institutions and the scale of the bloodletting on the british markets we,ve somehow managed to corner a lot of media coverage from the british media.Is Greece getting as much of a roasting!!I doubt it.The target market of these papers is the smug jeremy clarkson type tory middle-englander (thats a lot of adjectives I know!!!) and they,ve never been our friend-ever.Even when they were condescenedingly praising us for the lisbon vote or saying england should follow suit with our low corporate tax rate.These are the guys that think the celtic tiger was based soley on EU pounds taken out of their pocket(they forget about the low corporate tax when they make this argument) and they really resented all those surveys showing how we,d passed them out in earnings,education and quality of life.The papers are just giving them what they want a distraction from there own financial woes and a bit of schadenfreudec crowing at the "paddies" downfall.
I know that some posters think that the John Arlidge article is only pointing out the truth and that its just britbashing on our part because our heads or in the sand.Well I,d accept that if this article was professional and stuck to the facts.But I,m not going to accept that a "paper of record" uses all the following phrases/anecdotes in its article and I,m supposed to take it seriously.
1."the bad luck of the Irish"-all right its the headline I,ll allow it.we have lazy hacks too.
2. In Ireland, the biggest funerals take place in the smallest churches-Do they.news to me .I always thought they happened at the deceased local church.But I suppose we are a quaint and irrational people.
3.Poland, whose workers flocked to Ireland in the go-go years, has started hosting job fairs to attract unemployed Irish workers to Warsaw. The ad slogan? “Come to the new Ireland.”-I,ve heard of a few engineers and entrepreneurs going anecdotedly (all before the bust too)but does anyone seriously think non-polish speaking tradesmen or graduates are going to emigrate to poland to earn less money than the dole!!.The problem is that laid off polish workers employed in Ireland are staying on to avail of the social welfare here.(they,re entitled to it I know).rubbish.
3.Paddies-heh an allowable ethnic slur.
4."Ireland recently became the first western European country to have its top-notch credit rating downgraded from stable to negative"-utter bollox.Iceland is a western european country and as of today we have the same credit rating as Belgium or Hong Kong-ie Double A or likely to be able to pay back.Two of the ratings agencies still have us pegged at triple A.(at least till tuesday)
5.the Emerald Isle-you,ve used luck of the irish.three times and you,re barred
6.land of saints and scholars-right you,re officially the incredible hack
7.the potato famine
8.where only the rain seemed familiar-you know like in angelas ashes
9.“I left a godly land of broke but merry alcoholics and came back to a place where people who used to dig potatoes were buying luxury apartments sight-unseen and driving Porsches"-yeah the potato digging drunkard got his EU handout cheque.the guy giving the quote is sitting in a bar and is clearly taking the piss.
10.seemed to worship Versace in the way our grandmothers worshipped the Virgin Mary.” -the Irish used to religous now they,re not.Kinda like all western europeans
11.order a pint of the black stuff-
12.a pint of Guinness in one hand-again!!!
13.gerald Keane-the mans a sensationalist media whore.He,ll say whatever he has to to get into print and jump on any bandwagon.Now hes all about "greed" "blowing the boom" and "frugality".
14.could Ireland really go bust? On the streets of Limerick, it looks like it already has.-yeah well on the streets of brixton or mossside England looks like a third world country.Why go to limerick the third city in ireland and the one with the most serious social problems unless your trying to prove a point.and those problems were all well entrenched at the height of the boom.
15. "corner shops sell single cigarettes and single tea bags."-what is this The wire or The corner.rubbish.
16.He is urging the world’s leaders, who meet at the G20 summit in London this week, to come up with “a plan of action for Ireland-I,m sure it was top of the agenda.hyperbole much.
17.Reykjavik-on-Liffey-heh a new cliche.its the new guinness
18.Was Ireland a foolish little nation that thought it had found a new way of getting rich but forgot to ask where the money was coming from? -unlike all the huge or big countries that are clever and made no similar mistakes
19.the IRA-central to any economic discussion about Ireland in the 21st century
20.We lost our farmers-cutting-peat image-not in the sunday times gerald
21.“They’ll think we’re telling fairy stories.” -cliches from first to last

jonsnow · 05-04-2009 09:19PM

Dudess wrote: »

I'd wager it's all in your head - and stemming from the inferiority complex many Irish people are afflicted with when it comes to "the Brits".

I'd love to see proof of this longing for Ireland to do badly supposedly entrenched in British culture - thing is, they're barely aware of us.

The problem is that its not all in our heads.it is historic and real.While I would agree that the majority of english could give a toss about us there is a hardcore of bigots.I,ve been to london on a weekend exactly twice and the second time I was called a paddy by a woman I was standing next to in a bar when she overhead me talking to my friend.Another time in thailand a drunken englishman was sharing a taxi and when we passed an open sewer he commented "does that make you feel at home paddy".
I know we have our bigoted knuckleheads too but you cant just right off all anti-irish prejudice as "our inferiority complex".It exists and its not helping us at the moment in certain quarters.

Nodin · 05-04-2009 09:55PM

jonsnow wrote: »

Over (....).” -cliches from first to last

I know we're in a recession, but spaces to go between paragraphs are still plentiful (and free).

Fratton Fred · 05-04-2009 10:03PM

saviourgirl wrote: »

No, it was a fact....not smugness. Wake up

Oh yeah, Ireland's the richest country in the world isn't it:rolleyes:

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Nope. Smug is when you still gloat about winning the World Cup over 40 years ago against a country that has won it 3 times.

yes, that is smugness. whereas celebrating getting to the quater final without winning a game is just plan embarrassing.:D

Dudess wrote: »

Have to say the British strike me as generally a very self-deprecating people. Sure, there are awful bigots (like any society) but they tend to be thick as a brick sandwich and aren't worth paying heed to anyway...

Of course there are knuckle draggers, there is in any society but thankfully they are a minority.

I read the english press (Well, the better ones anyway) everyday and frpom what i read there is very little in there about Ireland, other than the odd article now and then. Maybe there is more in them than there is about Hungary or Greece, but we are neighbours after all. There are also a lot of irish people living in the UK, so the irish economy is of interest. There in depth articles are about the UK and how people are struggling in the UK. The times recently ran a very good article on if/then/else type scenarios which clearly pointed to a situation wgere the IMF could be called in, so no one is under any dillusion.

jonsnow wrote: »

The problem is that its not all in our heads.it is historic and real.While I would agree that the majority of english could give a toss about us there is a hardcore of bigots.I,ve been to london on a weekend exactly twice and the second time I was called a paddy by a woman I was standing next to in a bar when she overhead me talking to my friend.Another time in thailand a drunken englishman was sharing a taxi and when we passed an open sewer he commented "does that make you feel at home paddy".
I know we have our bigoted knuckleheads too but you cant just right off all anti-irish prejudice as "our inferiority complex".It exists and its not helping us at the moment in certain quarters.

Wow, shocking, when I forst moved to Ireland there was a trial of a guy who beat an English guy to death putside for Liffey Valley shoppping centre for the henous crime of being English.

m@cc@ · 05-04-2009 10:09PM

live2thewire wrote: »

lol the uk is gonna be even worse hit than ireland...in fact i predict the uk to implode.

For the sake of Ireland's economy, I hope not.

windsurfer99ie · 05-04-2009 10:32PM

Terry wrote: »

Quite a few of the comments on the article were made by people in Britain.

I didn't read the article myself - but I'll take your word for it. I still think that it is unlikely that the article appeared in the English (or Scottish) editions for the aforementioned reasons.

So what's the deal here?
Are we not allowed to complain about an article in a British paper slating us?
Do we just sit back and take it?

You can complain about what you want - but "do we just sit back and take it" sounds unnecessarily defensive to me given that this is probably just a couple of journalists behind this. As far as I can tell, my blood brothers in England are far more worried about the mismanagement of their own economy than of ours.

And if nobody in Britain gives a ****, then why did they take the time to read the article and then comment on it?

If you're referring to me, I'm not in Britain, I didn't read it and my eye was attracted to this boards thread because it clearly related to English /Irish relations - an area of interest to me.

windsurfer99ie · 05-04-2009 10:40PM

taidghbaby wrote: »

Never seen anti-irishness?. Well I work for an english company who have set up for the first time in Ireland recently. We have a lot of different vendors and I would say 95% of the account managers who I deal with are English!

We have brought some of these suppliers out to meet customers, and on a few occasions have been subjected to comments like "ridiculous", "i cant believe you can get away with that" and even a "you wouldn't see that on the mainland"!!

Now I know that not all English people look down on their Irish cousins but then again i'm not prone to making sweeping generalisations like certain newspaper articles! :rolleyes:

Fair comment - the "mainland" thing I find very embarrassing, and I try to put people straight on the few occasions I have heard it in the last twelve years. However "not all English people look down on their Irish cousins" is a sweeping generalisation which clearly implies (wrongly) that most of us do !

If you want to see more sweeping generalisations and bigotry, just look at some of the anti-English comments in this thread. All because of a spat between an Irish and an Irish\English\Scottish newspaper.

windsurfer99ie · 05-04-2009 10:47PM

Dudess wrote: »

I'd wager it's all in your head - and stemming from the inferiority complex many Irish people are afflicted with when it comes to "the Brits".

I'd love to see proof of this longing for Ireland to do badly supposedly entrenched in British culture - thing is, they're barely aware of us. Irish people give FAR more of a sh1t about them than they do about Irish people.

I basically agree with what you are saying - but I don't think it is an inferiority complex. Most English people like me genuinely want the Irish football team to do well (even sometimes when they are playing England). This sentiment translates into all aspects of life. Obviously the converse is not true. Simply put most of us do not have an axe to grind ...

... which of course makes me yet another English f****r making rash generalisations !

Terry · 05-04-2009 10:51PM

windsurfer99ie wrote:

If you're referring to me, I'm not in Britain, I didn't read it and my eye was attracted to this boards thread because it clearly related to English /Irish relations - an area of interest to me.

The last sentence was in reference to Fratton Fred.

The article appeared in the on-line edition, so it's visible to a worldwide audience.

Nobody is saying that the British people are all anti-Irish. That's far from the truth and only the few close minded people here can't see that fact.
However, the British press do seem to be gloating about the demise of our economy.
Fair enough, some Irish people turned into complete **** (you don't have to go further than AH to see that), but the article in question is a smug piece written by someone who seems to be delighted that our economy is faltering. That it was printed is a testament to the fact that there are still people in Britain (mostly England) who still think of the Irish as little more than potato eating idiots.

International Irish bashing starts to grate

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