What do you think of Christianity?

PurpleBerry · 02-04-2009 10:37PM

I'm sorry, I don't really know him.

Agonist · 02-04-2009 10:38PM

Joost wrote: »

I am happy to say I am a practising Catholic, and have a strong faith.

But hey let all the cool people come out and say religion sucks and bash other peoples beliefs, its the cool thing to do now right?

Whereas back in the day Christianity was cool?
Who was it who said "I'll try anything once except for incest and folk music"? Definitely not a Christian.

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Chose option 4, hovering over option 5 a lot though.

Its highly hypocritical, and in a position of power and protection by society it does not deserve, but I think this of all religions or cults.

I think the word hypocrisy is used wrongly all the time. If an individual tells you not to throw stones at prostitutes and then you catch them lobbing rocks they're a hypocrite. Christianity has a message of loving your neighbour as yourself. It's only the Christians who fail to do this who are hypocrites, not the organisation.
It's like the locked thread about chicken. If someone tells you not to eat chicken but eats cows themselves it's not hypocrisy. If they tell you to abstain from all animal products but they wear leather then it's hypocrisy.
Whatever about the definition of vegetarianism it's the definition of hypocrisy we have to be careful of.
/hijacking thread
I think everything wishes life was different to how it is. Religious people solve this problem by believing that life actually is different to how it seems against all obvious clues to the contrary. Maybe they're just more naturally nihilistic than the rest of us and desperately need a fantasy to avoid suicide. Just maybe.

Dudess · 02-04-2009 10:41PM

Hazys wrote: »

Thanks for being pedantic, somehow that makes my point less valid.

It's not remotely pedantic. Christianity = a faith; Catholicism = a particular strain of that faith (one of many, a lot of which are at odds with Catholicism) with lots of its own rules.

I'm noticing a number of people on this thread taking "Christianity" to mean "Catholic Church" which is... misinformed to say the least. Or else maybe it's just a case of "oh, a vague opportunity to attack the Catholic Church - yay!" Attacking the Catholic Church is not interesting - it's one of the softest targets there is. And it's fairly 13-year-old-ish to overdo it.

Jakkass, I don't know exactly what you mean by "Christianity" - the values Christ preached? The faith part? The organised religion?

I think Christ seemed like a pretty great dude by all accounts. The values he subscribed to were basically all traits of human decency - can only be a good thing. So the original tenets of Christianity I'd have a lot of time for.
The faith part - well I'm agnostic and I do think the supernatural aspects seem a load of claptrap.
The organised religion - sadly its principles have been distorted throughout the ages and used for the ends of evil people by various Christian churches. Some wonderful people representing Christianity too though, but they tend not to be powerful.

But saying "I hate Christianity because of the child abuse"... the abuses were nothing to do with the religion itself - Christ didn't advocate raping children.

It's important to distinguish between the religion, the church and the individual representing each.

K4t · 02-04-2009 10:45PM

Dudess wrote: »

Attacking the Catholic Church is not interesting - it's one of the softest targets there is. And it's fairly 13-year-old-ish to overdo it.
.

Tell that to all the 13 year olds who were raped by Christian Brothers. People have every right to bash the Catholic Church whenever they feel like it. Long may it continue I say.

philologos · 02-04-2009 10:49PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

Dudess wrote: »

Jakkass, I don't know exactly what you mean by "Christianity" - the values Christ preached? The faith part? The organised religion?

I've said I won't comment on this thread, but I will clarify what I meant.

No my thread is not Catholic specific, but rather it pertains to Christianity in all it's expressions.

I mean the values that Christ preached, and it's effect on individuals, and encounters with Christian people.

However, if the institutions need to be discussed that might be helpful too. I personally have some things that I don't understand about my own denomination (Anglicanism) and things that I think that need to be looked at, so perhaps if people want to discuss Catholicism it might be interesting and thought provoking also. However, my main main point of having this thread was to discuss Christianity as expressed in Christ's teachings, the Bible, and in encounters with Christians.

Thanks for your input so far I've read some pretty interesting stuff, and I've thanked people accordingly and will continue to do so.

I'm out

Sam Vimes · 02-04-2009 10:54PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

the whole problem for me can be summed up in the term "religion vs science".

It sums it up for me when you remember that science is latin for knowledge so the age old battle is actually "religion vs knowledge". Knowledge is the enemy of religion because it spots all the flaws in it

Zynks · 02-04-2009 10:59PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

Hazys wrote: »

Considering its leader said condoms makes aids worse in Africa, i think the answer is very obvious.

Those dirty infected pieces of rubber going doing hanky panky with innocent people...disgraceful!

gatorade · 02-04-2009 11:08PM

I think about religion allot as being brought up a catholic i began to question it.

Personally, i believe that religion was created in order to explain things that people couldn't understand. As society and science has progressed we are now able to explain how life began on earth, even how the earth was created. They couldn't back then so of course 'god created' everything.

The idea of god creating a man and [paraphrasing here] taking a rib out of the man to create a woman and there was a talking snake and there was a man named noah who lived to 900 years old and he made a boat big enough to put 2 of every species of mouse, tick, flea, mite etc on the boat yada, yada, yada....its all ridiculous but we believed it. Of course now Christians will say 'oh well that was just a metaphor' etc. They weren't saying that way back in history, they put it forward as the be all and end all.

If the story was just about a mortal man named jesus who had a great message and then he died.....it would have gotten nowhere. The whole horse and pony show (the miracles, son of god etc) is what made the story so compelling to people imo. You don't want to be the one who doesn't believe in this religion cos you're missing out!!! You can't take that chance. Agghhhh.

Don't even get me started on the English using Chrisitianity as the reason for invading Ireland. They even wrote to the pope for permission. Naturally he gave it :rolleyes:

And then of course there is the contradictory nature of god. He is forgiving and loving....yet he is 'a jealous god'?????? wtf! Why would god be jealous when jesus wouldn't be? Theres even a parable about how bad jealousy is....but what, its ok for god? Nope, makes no sense. Why? Because its all a man made book.

The bible was written 50 years after Jesus' death! Seriously, how on earth could they have so much detail about a man who died 50 years prevously. Stories change from person to person.

It reminds me of Braveheart where the scottish are talking about him, about he's 20 feet tall and built like an ox etc.....and then he arrives and he's just a normal man. A bit like our dear saint brendan, pitching his boat on the back of a whale :rolleyes: please.

If you believe that god is real, then you will fear him and if you fear him then you will do whatever it is the church tell you to do to appease him. Sure, you wouldn't want to go to hell. And naturally the church banned pretty much everything.

But, recently i began to think, well if christianity makes people behave morally (although if they're doing it because they fear god then it sort of defeats the point) then what harm is it doing? None probably. If there was no religion there might be anarchy on the streets. Maybe/maybe not.

But Christianity gives people hope. Didn't Prometheus give hope to the mortals who were living miserable lives.

If it makes people happy to believe in something that smacks of b.s then let them. If they want to believe that god will grant a miracle in some part of their life, then let them.

The other week i thought, if we can scientifically explain human existence, the planet etc then how do we explain the creation of whatever it is thats outside the univers/solar system/galaxy etc. How was that created it? Everything comes from something. It couldn't just have always been since that contradicts rational thinking.

....and then thats when my mind trips and i freak out. We just don't know and we never will. Its scary man, where the f**k did it actually come from?

Zynks · 02-04-2009 11:21PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

gatorade wrote: »

Personally, i believe that religion was created in order to explain things that people couldn't understand.
But, recently i began to think, well if christianity makes people behave morally (although if they're doing it because they fear god then it sort of defeats the point) then what harm is it doing?

Religions take advantage of our gap in knowledge. Humans fear the unknown, so "god" provides the needed comfort and excuse for people to stop asking the BIG questions.

gatorade wrote: »

But Christianity gives people hope. Didn't Prometheus give hope to the mortals who were living miserable lives.

If it makes people happy to believe in something that smacks of b.s then let them. If they want to believe that god will grant a miracle in some part of their life, then let them.

Yes, it gives the hope that we are not as insignificant as logic seems to show.

gatorade wrote: »

The other week i thought, if we can scientifically explain human existence, the planet etc then how do we explain the creation of whatever it is thats outside the univers/solar system/galaxy etc. How was that created it? Everything comes from something. It couldn't just have always been since that contradicts rational thinking.

Try to accept that we are as important to the universe as a grain of sand in the beach, because that is the simple truth. We are here for a short visit and that's it. If you need a purpose in life, try leaving good memories for the ones that will stay around for another while after you are gone.

Seaneh · 02-04-2009 11:29PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

the whole problem for me can be summed up in the term "religion vs science".

It sums it up for me when you remember that science is latin for knowledge so the age old battle is actually "religion vs knowledge". Knowledge is the enemy of religion because it spots all the flaws in it

This is an absolute load of horse shite.

In no way are science and christianity incompatable, science does not prove the non-existance of a deity, it can't and no scientist would ever say it does.

Not all christians believe that the world is 5k years old and that men lived with dinosaurs, infact this is an amazingly small minority restricted almost totaly to a very small part of the southern united states.
for over a thousand years the worlds leading scientists were jesuit priests and even now jesuits fund some of the biggest research and development programes in multipal sceinces around the world from medical research to astronomy, your post was mornoic and inaccurate.

Seaneh · 02-04-2009 11:35PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

My view on christianity is this, its the only logical faith structure in the world, it's the only faith structure which doesn't demand anything other than faith and its the only faith structure in the world that absolutely in no way uses fear to control people.

Certain organisations at verious points of time have used misinterprited christian docturn to instill fear into people for their own means but when you get into it christianity demands only one thing, accept the salvation granted to you, thats it, you arent expected not to sin anymore, its not a tool to stop you from doing anything, it gives guidence in areas of life sure but it doesnt say anywhere "if you do this youre going to hell".

Christ didn't come to remind us to live by the commandments, he came to liberate us from them because we couldnt live by them.

All the bollocks spouted in this thread has been like bouncing my head off a wall thrying to read it.

I'm starting to think some of you people are either actually retarded or are porpously saying things you know not to be true.

pablomakaveli · 02-04-2009 11:36PM

I'm indifferent towards it.

Glad to see all the wise and all knowing atheists are out in force. Happy to pour scorn and mockery on the beliefs of others who don't believe what they believe (or don't believe) just like....and wait for it.....the fundamentalist religious people they so despise.

Yes let's get rid of religion. That will solve the worlds problems. :rolleyes:

Atheism me arse.

Sam Vimes · 02-04-2009 11:38PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

Seaneh wrote: »

This is an absolute load of horse shite.

In no way are science and christianity incompatable, science does not prove the non-existance of a deity, it can't and no scientist would ever say it does.

Not all christians believe that the world is 5k years old and that men lived with dinosaurs, infact this is an amazingly small minority restricted almost totaly to a very small part of the southern united states.
for over a thousand years the worlds leading scientists were jesuit priests and even now jesuits fund some of the biggest research and development programes in multipal sceinces around the world from medical research to astronomy, your post was mornoic and inaccurate.

Tell me, if my point is so moronic, why has "science vs religion" been an extremely common theme throughout our history? Do you think I'm the first person to point out this conflict?

No science cannot disprove god, as they cannot disprove the flying spaghetti monster, and not all people believe that the world is 5k years old. However there are a great many things in the bible that are commonly believed that science has disproven and christians stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen.

Some say you can still be a christian and accept that these things about it have been disproven but you can't really. God is either an omnipotent, omnipresent, perfect being or he's not. You can't believe that all these parts of christianity are wrong while simultaneously believing in the christian god. Those two beliefs are incompatable.

Unless you're religious and are used to switching off the logical part of your brain.....

Sam Vimes · 02-04-2009 11:40PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Glad to see all the wise and all knowing atheists are out in force. Happy to pour scorn and mockery on the beliefs of others who don't believe what they believe (or don't believe) just like....and wait for it.....the fundamentalist religious people they so despise.

Yes let's get rid of religion. That will solve the worlds problems. :rolleyes:

Atheism me arse.

The difference being that atheists say "your beliefs are ridiculous and here's a logical, well thought out point by point explanation of why they are ridiculous", where religious fundamentalists say "MY GOD IS MORE PEACEFUL THAN YOURS AND I'M GOING TO KILL YOU TO PROVE IT!!!!!!!". Slight difference

Zillah · 02-04-2009 11:41PM

Seaneh wrote: »

My view on christianity is this, its the only logical faith structure in the world, it's the only faith structure which doesn't demand anything other than faith and its the only faith structure in the world that absolutely in no way uses fear to control people.

Certain organisations at verious points of time have used misinterprited christian docturn to instill fear into people for their own means but when you get into it christianity demands only one thing, accept the salvation granted to you, thats it, you arent expected not to sin anymore, its not a tool to stop you from doing anything, it gives guidence in areas of life sure but it doesnt say anywhere "if you do this youre going to hell".

You haven't actually read the Bible have you?

Seaneh · 02-04-2009 11:43PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Tell me, if my point is so moronic, why has "science vs religion" been an extremely common theme throughout our history? Do you think I'm the first person to point out this conflict?

No science cannot disprove god, as they cannot disprove the flying spaghetti monster, and not all people believe that the world is 5k years old. However there are a great many things in the bible that are commonly believed that science has disproven and christians stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to listen.

Some say you can still be a christian and accept that these things about it have been disproven but you can't really. God is either an omnipotent, omnipresent, perfect being or he's not. You can't believe that all these parts of christianity are wrong while simultaneously believing in the christian god. Those two beliefs are incompatable.

Unless you're religious and are used to switching off the logical part of your brain.....

Ok so, list the incompatabilities of sceince and christianyt?

Go for it!

You are talking out of your arse my friend.

Seaneh · 02-04-2009 11:44PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

Zillah wrote: »

You haven't actually read the Bible have you?

Front to back, in sections, by theme, yeah I've been over it a few times.

Have you? All of it? Or do you take the word of your athiest overlords for granted because "they wouldn't lie!"?

ScumLord · 02-04-2009 11:46PM

gatorade wrote: »

Personally, i believe that religion was created in order to explain things that people couldn't understand. As society and science has progressed we are now able to explain how life began on earth, even how the earth was created. They couldn't back then so of course 'god created' everything.

I think the God theory was a pretty good one for the time. It recognized the fact that everything was in harmony, that everything in the world was linked. It was quite a profound theory for the time. Having one God put us all in the same boat and made very thing equal. They where limited by their experience and made god out to be a king of kings. Kings being the most powerful people at the time.

Of course now Christians will say 'oh well that was just a metaphor' etc. They weren't saying that way back in history, they put it forward as the be all and end all.

But didn't Jesus talk in metaphors simply to dumb down his message so it appealed to a broader base. I don't think it's fair to say it was meant to ever be a de facto truth.

Seaneh wrote: »

My view on christianity is this, its the only logical faith structure in the world,

How is it logical?

Sam Vimes · 02-04-2009 11:49PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

Seaneh wrote: »

Ok so, list the incompatabilities of sceince and christianyt?

Go for it!

You are talking out of your arse my friend.

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=bible+inconsistencies&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=0&oq=bible+inconsis

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=bible+errors&btnG=Search&meta=

It's not even necessarily about disproving things. It's about pointing out logical flaws. For example:

Seaneh wrote: »

My view on christianity is this, its the only logical faith structure in the world, it's the only faith structure which doesn't demand anything other than faith and its the only faith structure in the world that absolutely in no way uses fear to control people.

Firstly, many faiths don't demand anything. Most likely you're just thinking of Islam there.

And Secondly, it doesn't matter which faith you think is the most logical based on its rules, it matters which one is true. For all you know God could be the spiritual equivalent of a kid squashing ants. He might very well not give a crap about us and could just be using us as a lab experiment. Or he might just as easily be Islam's version of God.

It doesn't what faith fits with your own personal beliefs, it matters which one is most likely to be the true one based on the available evidence. And since there is evidence supporting most religions but none of is conclusive, there is no logical way that you can choose one faith over another. All you can have is a gut feeling

Seaneh · 02-04-2009 11:49PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

REad the pilgrims regress by c.s. lewis, that's pretty much the best way to describe why christianity it logical I can think of.

liah · 02-04-2009 11:50PM

Seaneh wrote: »

My view on christianity is this, its the only logical faith structure in the world, it's the only faith structure which doesn't demand anything other than faith and its the only faith structure in the world that absolutely in no way uses fear to control people.

You can't be serious. You HAVE to be a troll. You just simply have to. There is honestly no way people can believe this.

And if there is, I really need to evaluate the levels of stupidity possible in the human race.

How. Just... how can you actually, truly, honestly have yourself convinced that anything you just said right there has any basis in fact?

No. It's trolling. It has to be trolling. I refuse to believe otherwise.

Dudess · 02-04-2009 11:51PM

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Yes let's get rid of religion. That will solve the worlds problems. :rolleyes:

It would get rid of a lot of them.

Atheism me arse.

And now YOU'RE doing what you object to...

pablomakaveli · 02-04-2009 11:53PM

I'm indifferent towards it.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

The difference being that atheists say "your beliefs are ridiculous and here's a logical, well thought out point by point explanation of why they are ridiculous", where religious fundamentalists say "MY GOD IS MORE PEACEFUL THAN YOURS AND I'M GOING TO KILL YOU TO PROVE IT!!!!!!!". Slight difference

Yes because everyone who chooses to believe in God is going to take to the streets in a murderous rampage.

The old nuns and old ladies shuffling to mass are plotting our demise even as we speak.

Atheists believe they are right and seem determined to make sure everyone knows that. Sounds no different to the fundamentalist religious to me.

Seaneh · 02-04-2009 11:54PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=bible+inconsistencies&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=0&oq=bible+inconsis

http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=bible+errors&btnG=Search&meta=

And I could point you to thousands, if not millions, of links that counter the arugements in the links you just posted.

Sam Vimes · 02-04-2009 11:55PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Yes because everyone who chooses to believe in God is going to take to the streets in a murderous rampage.

The old nuns and old ladies shuffling to mass are plotting our demise even as we speak.

Atheists believe they are right and seem determined to make sure everyone knows that. Sounds no different to the fundamentalist religious to me.

No he specifically compared atheists to religious fundamentalists so I pointed out the difference. I didn't say all religious people are like that. Perhaps you're thinking of "fundamentalist" atheists, and are making the same mistake you're accusing me of making, lumping us all together?

Seaneh · 02-04-2009 11:58PM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

liah wrote: »

You can't be serious. You HAVE to be a troll. You just simply have to. There is honestly no way people can believe this.

And if there is, I really need to evaluate the levels of stupidity possible in the human race.

How. Just... how can you actually, truly, honestly have yourself convinced that anything you just said right there has any basis in fact?

No. It's trolling. It has to be trolling. I refuse to believe otherwise.

I'd rather you retracted this statement than have me report you to a moderator for a personal attack, or you could atleast explain your post.

pablomakaveli · 02-04-2009 11:58PM

I'm indifferent towards it.

Dudess wrote: »

It would get rid of a lot of them.

And now YOU'RE doing what you object to...

Sure it would. Lets get rid of politics,soccer,money and well pretty much all human civilization as pretty much any thing you can think of someone has killed another person for it.

And iv no objection to people not believing in god that's their choice its when they feel the need to make sure everyone else knows they feel they are right and that anyone who believes otherwise is wrong iv a problem. (same applies to religious people)

Sam Vimes · 02-04-2009 11:59PM

I find that Christianity has a destructive impact on society.

Seaneh wrote: »

And I could point you to thousands, if not millions, of links that counter the arugements in the links you just posted.

I've seen some of the counter arguments to these things and to say they were delusional rationalisations would be putting it mildly. People don't want these things to be true so they twist them and "interpret" them and say "what it really means..." or "it's a metaphor" etc until the interpretation bears no resemblance whatsoever to the original text.

ScumLord · 03-04-2009 12:00AM

Dudess wrote: »

It would get rid of a lot of them.

And now YOU'RE doing what you object to...

promoting homoisim?

Seaneh wrote: »

REad the pilgrims regress by c.s. lewis, that's pretty much the best way to describe why christianity it logical I can think of.

Could you summarize or give a general gist of it. I only read monitors these days.

Seaneh · 03-04-2009 12:06AM

I don't believe but it has a positive influence on those who do.

ScumLord wrote: »

promoting homoisim?

Could you summarize or give a general gist of it. I only read monitors these days.

This doesn't do it justice and I'm too tired to do it myself.

"This 1933 novel — Lewis' first published fiction — charts the progress of a fictional character through the philosophical landscape before eventually arriving where he started at traditional Christianity. It is Lewis's personal revision of John Bunyan's 17th century novel, Pilgrim's Progress, recast with the politics, philosophy and aesthetic principles of the early-20th century. As such the character struggles with the modern phoniness, hypocrisy and intellectual vacancy of the Christian church, communism, fascism, and various philosophical and artistic movements. It balances Lewis's neoplatonic mindset with a Kierkegaardian faith-based understanding.

It is interesting to note that Lewis' character finds that many philosophical roads ultimately lead to a fascistic nihilism that he associates with Nordic Viking culture -- his explanation of the then flourishing Nazi movement and other fascist governments of World War II. This also highlights his own attraction to paganism and Norse mythology as his first spiritual awakening that led him to Christianity (as detailed in Surprised by Joy), while acknowledging the darker potential elements of paganism as well."

From wiki-wrongia.

What do you think of Christianity?

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