Possible change to BrucePoker.com Live Tour format - lots of feedback appreciated!!

BRUCEPOKER.COM · 31-03-2009 02:09PM #1

Hey guys and girls!

We were pondering a possible change from the current format in the Live Tour (i.e. - one rebuy or topup allowed).

We would possibly go with a €200 freezeout including reg fee. :rolleyes:

We'd love as many opinions on this as possible please!

The main reason we're considering the change is the late finishing times, mainly caused by the 25-26k stacks and as 95% of people take the topup anyway we figured perhaps a 12 - 15k stack on a freezeout might make for a better game, more reasonable finishing time and a jump in cash action thus making the event more equitable to run as costs on dealer dealt games running this late are quite high :eek:.

As many angles on this as possible please!

Looking forward to your views.
Bruce Poker

Ollieboy · 31-03-2009 04:21PM

200 freezeout will not attract the average player, they like the idea of 100 and adding a 50 if they want. Better players will always perfer the 200 option I think.

Personally I would decrease the starting stack to 7500. 500 for early chip and 7500 for top up. This leaves 15k per player and should help to knock to 3 hours off the event. I would also add a extra level at the start to give more value to players before the rebuy, might be a extra 25 minutes, but means people will feel they got some value for money.

Also sort out your rake on cash games far to high.

Also new deck of cards with no markings.

So decide what you want, a big field, a crapshoot event, a event that promotos your company or a way of making money. At the moment I don't think you know what you want.

Personally I would be going for big fields with value to customers that promotos your events/site. So maybe increasing the structure and having the players that make the money coming back day 2. On day 2 have a 50 rebuy or something that creates cash game action.

Hope this is helpful.

smurph · 31-03-2009 04:38PM

The thing that is attracting players to this is the idea of maximum spend €170 buy-in with the 10K guaranteed prizepool, which has been well exceeded in the last 2 outings

Again the €200 freeze-out could put people off. Maybe have less breaks, & get the tables broken a bit earlier.... our table was 7 handed for an age early in the tournament, and when I asked a dealer about it they just said I was to ask someone else....

Start bang on 8.00 p.m. if you turn it into a freezeout then some players are going to arrive and not be allowed into the tournament. At least with the one re-buy or top-up rule you have 3 levels to get into the tournament.

I would keep the buy-in and top-up the same myself

bohsman · 31-03-2009 04:39PM

Seeing as you're asking for feedback, I played Dundalk, structure was good, tournament was very well run. There was a lot of value, you attracted the right kind of players, if theyve kept coming back change nothing. However cards were terrible, chips were terrible, they basically all looked black - the centres should be the same colour as the sides. Tables were terrible - lose the wooden tracks. Cash game chips were very confusing. €5 standard colour is red, €25 colour is green, youse went for the opposite. Also wtf at €10 chips?

Despite that because of the value Id keep coming back.

DAMO72 · 31-03-2009 06:06PM

You could try a €300 freezout with a €40 reg or €200 with a €30 reg both with a 10k stack. Stephen McClean seems to be getting plenty of positive feedback for his event with these buy in's . Whatever you do i will be playing anyway

mully_85 · 01-04-2009 01:52AM

hmmmmmm cant see why anyone would want to start this tourney with less chips, ie a 7500 starting stack then a 7500 top up. why would any player not want to get the 15k at 25/50 instead of possibly buying in for like 20 big blinds when the "rebuy" period is over? starting with 7500, blinds starting at 25/50 gives u very very little room for manevure and within 3 levels its basically grindaments, very little poker involved.

personally i think the idea of havin a 1 top up or rebuy completely infuriating, if ur spending the money u should be able to get all the possible chips at any possible time.

keep the current buyin, make it a 15k starting stack freezeout imo.

Ollieboy · 01-04-2009 09:10AM

mully_85 wrote: »

hmmmmmm cant see why anyone would want to start this tourney with less chips, ie a 7500 starting stack then a 7500 top up. why would any player not want to get the 15k at 25/50 instead of possibly buying in for like 20 big blinds when the "rebuy" period is over? starting with 7500, blinds starting at 25/50 gives u very very little room for manevure and within 3 levels its basically grindaments, very little poker involved.

personally i think the idea of havin a 1 top up or rebuy completely infuriating, if ur spending the money u should be able to get all the possible chips at any possible time.

keep the current buyin, make it a 15k starting stack freezeout imo.

less chips means less play which means earlier finish. At the moment this game is ending at 9am from a 8pm start. Maybe make the rebuy 10k, but defo add a level at the start and remove so many chips in play. At the final table last month everyone had big enough stacks and took a age for people to count out bets and re-stack chips, just far to many chips in play.

horsebox1 · 01-04-2009 10:36AM

I agree with Ollieboy in relation to attracting players for the value, mabey go for a €130+20 reg freezeout with 12k starting stack. Possibly reduce the times of the levels to finish earlier....(not sure what they are)

Ollieboy wrote: »

200 freezeout will not attract the average player, they like the idea of 100 and adding a 50 if they want. Better players will always perfer the 200 option I think.

Personally I would decrease the starting stack to 7500. 500 for early chip and 7500 for top up. This leaves 15k per player and should help to knock to 3 hours off the event. I would also add a extra level at the start to give more value to players before the rebuy, might be a extra 25 minutes, but means people will feel they got some value for money.

Also sort out your rake on cash games far to high.

Also new deck of cards with no markings.

So decide what you want, a big field, a crapshoot event, a event that promotos your company or a way of making money. At the moment I don't think you know what you want.

Personally I would be going for big fields with value to customers that promotos your events/site. So maybe increasing the structure and having the players that make the money coming back day 2. On day 2 have a 50 rebuy or something that creates cash game action.

Hope this is helpful.

spoofingjam · 01-04-2009 01:09PM

Paul if i were u i wouldn't even consider changing this game to a 200 f/o. If its not broke dont fix it. The customer's u are getting like the option to only spend 120( even tho most take the top up). I would rather a 200 f/o but my advice to u would be to keep it as u are. 150 ish runners for both events so far has been great. i think changing it to 200 f/o would effect that

afex · 01-04-2009 01:39PM

i have played both dundalk and maynooth which both had excess of 140 players and both well run t,neys.my changes would be an 8 or 10k starting stack with an 8 or 10k rebuy with the same buy in, also scrap the early bird as it dont make a diff if your early or late you still get it but it delayed the dundalk event by another 15mins which was already running an hour late.

wd also agree with bohsman regarding the tables most players including dealers had trouble picking cards up when they landed on the wooden rail so maybe look into that

roll on friday................

kpnuts · 01-04-2009 03:35PM

Paul, you don't need to change the structure, the 100(+20)+50 with 25k chips is perfect as it is IMO. You've got more fans than Man United already and you're only just up and running FFS! Just need to start the games on time -- if not earlier -- and have shorter, sharper breaks. Then we'll all be home in a jiffy. See you on Friday.

EDIT: agree with bohsman's points above re cards, chips and especially tables. Room for improvement there. Particularly hated the wooden shelf around each table.

BRUCEPOKER.COM · 01-04-2009 05:45PM

Thanks all for your 2 cents on this. Much appreciated.

We'll have to sit and have a think about which way to go with this.

We might give the €200 freezout a trial down the road and if it goes well who knows, variety is the spice of life after all.

Just for arguments sake:

Possible freezeout structure:

15k stack

25/30 min blinds

25-50
50-100
75-150
100-200
150-300
--break--change 25s
200-400
300-600
400-800
500-1000-100
600-1200-100
800-1600-200
1000-2000-200
1200-2400-300
1500-3000-300
--break--change 100s
2000-4000-500
3000-6000-500
4000-8000-1000
5000-10000-1000
etc
Starting sharpish @ 8pm with less and shorter breaks should both reduce running time and increase game quality.

Although this type of game does appeal more to the hardcores and less to the passive hobbiest who just want to enjoy an evenings entertainment with a few drinks and the rebuy element allows for this.

Personally, as a poker player and an organiser I would think this would be a better structure as all the missing levels, particularly at the start of the tourney, are included.
Also from the running of side of things, with no rebuys there is less running around with chips to be done.

What to do what to do...

Just a suggestion, check out our rebuy structure in Mullingar this Friday!!:p

Also keep those views coming in, all opinions are highly valued.

DAMO72 · 01-04-2009 06:02PM

Why increase the buy in for a freezout, Leave it at €150 with €20 reg

BRUCEPOKER.COM · 01-04-2009 06:12PM

DAMO72 wrote: »

Why increase the buy in for a freezout, Leave it at €150 with €20 reg

Yeah €150 + 20 is always an option. Its all up to what the players want really.

Although if we were still maintaining crowds with a €200 game the guarantee could easily be increased down the road?

DITTag · 01-04-2009 06:28PM

IMO the structure is fine the way it is.

With 25 minutes thru out now it should end by 5.
If thats still too late try a 9k stack with early bird of 1k and a 12k top up.

BRUCEPOKER.COM · 01-04-2009 06:43PM

DITTag wrote: »

IMO the structure is fine the way it is.

With 25 minutes thru out now it should end by 5.
If thats still too late try a 9k stack with early bird of 1k and a 12k top up.

We were considering reducing the amount of chips for the rebuy for this one but posters were already printed and so on so was left as is for the time being.

Perhaps in future games. We're expecting a good crowd in Mullingar so it'll be a good test to see how we fare out

LTL · 01-04-2009 07:15PM

I'm sure this won't go down to well but another aspect that you stated in your OP is that the costs of running such a tournament which goes on til 9 in the morning and kills the cash games are quite large. Im sure this is a problem for yourselves.

I worked at your Dundalk event and did enjoy it but also noticed that because of the dead cash games there were almost no tips at the end of the day. Im sure this also majorly affects your rake and with high dealer costs (i drove 2 hours to get to dundalk which was refunded in travel expenses) , im sure there are financial aspects to the structure of the tournament that must be considered.

As a player the more play the better is usually my request, but there must be other issues that aren't being discussed by players also that should be taken into consideration.

BRUCEPOKER.COM · 01-04-2009 07:57PM

LTL wrote: »

I'm sure this won't go down to well but another aspect that you stated in your OP is that the costs of running such a tournament which goes on til 9 in the morning and kills the cash games are quite large. Im sure this is a problem for yourselves.

I worked at your Dundalk event and did enjoy it but also noticed that because of the dead cash games there were almost no tips at the end of the day. Im sure this also majorly affects your rake and with high dealer costs (i drove 2 hours to get to dundalk which was refunded in travel expenses) , im sure there are financial aspects to the structure of the tournament that must be considered.

As a player the more play the better is usually my request, but there must be other issues that aren't being discussed by players also that should be taken into consideration.

Exactly right LTL

nicnicnic · 02-04-2009 01:47AM

tips for people having trouble picking up cards because wooden rail

pick up one card, hold between tumb and forefinger then slide under other card and lift

alternately slide both cards towards the fabric ledge, press on edge of cards most distant from ledge then slide forward until leading segments of cards mount fabric.

Regards

Nicky Power

Ollieboy · 02-04-2009 09:35AM

nicnicnic wrote: »

tips for people having trouble picking up cards because wooden rail

pick up one card, hold between tumb and forefinger then slide under other card and lift

alternately slide both cards towards the fabric ledge, press on edge of cards most distant from ledge then slide forward until leading segments of cards mount fabric.

Regards

Nicky Power

Any chance of you providing a manual for this or even drawings/diagrams etc.

califano · 02-04-2009 09:58AM

Behind the scenes shot of the carpenter in question working on the tables from the outset.

BRUCEPOKER.COM · 02-04-2009 10:15AM

lol, very good :pac:

Ollieboy · 02-04-2009 11:49AM

rounders123 wrote: »

Behind the scenes shot of the carpenter in question working on the tables from the outset.

he looks like the older version of the boy from the movie " The Boy in Striped Pyjamas".

Or maybe Nicky when he was younger?

spoofingjam · 02-04-2009 01:32PM

nicnicnic wrote: »

tips for people having trouble picking up cards because wooden rail

pick up one card, hold between tumb and forefinger then slide under other card and lift

alternately slide both cards towards the fabric ledge, press on edge of cards most distant from ledge then slide forward until leading segments of cards mount fabric.

Regards

Nicky Power

what would we do without u mr power

nicnicnic · 02-04-2009 10:51PM

Ollieboy wrote: »

Any chance of you providing a manual for this or even drawings/diagrams etc.

had a chat with Paul on this and we have decided that I'll be giving tutorials from 7 in Mullingar

Ollieboy · 02-04-2009 11:12PM

nicnicnic wrote: »

had a chat with Paul on this and we have decided that I'll be giving tutorials from 7 in Mullingar

thats worth the entry fee alone...lol

Possible change to BrucePoker.com Live Tour format - lots of feedback appreciated!!

What format would you prefer? 37 votes

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