No More crap Tesco petrol for me

derry · 31-03-2009 11:37PM #1

I decided to run my tank down to near zero.Then I filled it up with Tesco petrol to see was it true that the rumour in the motors forum in boards that MPG using Tesco petrol was crap was true .

Well the first thing I noticed a sluggishness in the car compared to my normal mix using some 10% E85 added to the mix to give a bit of ummph

Then one morning I had to adjust something which used eletric power in the car so I started the engine to supply the electric power and started to adjust power.I got a bad smell and thought the car had gone on fire so shut down fast locate the fire extingusher and search for the fire .
I Couldnt find the fire and smell dissapered after ten minutes started the engine again. After a few minutes bad burning smell so this time I left engine running and went around the car and found the source .It was the exhast emmissions and man it was evil .
I dont know what Tesco puts in thier Petrol but for me SABENA such a bad experience never again .Also seemed to me the MPG was lowwer than other fuels.
I have noticed that MPG vary a lot with different fuels ,I get about 40MPG town travel using mix of 80% E85 and 20% .petrol. Pure petrol is about 43 to 45 MPG in typical town traffic .
My car a 98 suziki swift isnt a Flex fuel car ,its a normal petol car but i found it runs no problem on E85 or any mix of the two fuel petrol or E85.

So with E85 at €0.95 and petrol at €1.04 its still interesting to use mostly E85 fuel for me .So if i use Petrol it wont be Tesco crap .

Varios attempts show the running costs come out very similar with either fuel so i prefer to use the E85

At least the E85 fuel is reputed to burn cleanly and leave less gunge in the engine and certainly the engine loves it and power is up mayby 10% over petrol

Derry

Johnboy Mac · 01-04-2009 01:36AM

I'm very susprised that you consider Tesco's petrol to be of poor quality.

As I understand Tesco buy their petrol from major oil companies so I would expect ot to be of the same quality?

Can't imagine Tesco requeating a cheaper brew to made soley for their garages. From what I know a RON rating is the same no matter who manufactures the petrol.

DaMonk · 01-04-2009 02:12AM

sounds to me that running your tank to nothing could have cause all the crap at the bottom of your tank to enter your engine, not the petrol

jhegarty · 01-04-2009 02:17AM

Unless you are suggesting that Tesco spike their fuel (for no good reason) , it wouldn't make any sense.

Gary ITR · 01-04-2009 02:18AM

I don't think tesco maintain their tanks and pumps as well as other supppliers. Not having them cleaned leads to a build of of moisture and 'gunk'.

starbelgrade · 01-04-2009 02:20AM

Tescos petrol? Which aisle do I get that from?

DaMonk · 01-04-2009 02:23AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Tescos petrol? Which aisle do I get that from?

next to the fire lighters and matches

starbelgrade · 01-04-2009 02:33AM

Handy. I'll get a few bottles next time i'm in.

DaMonk · 01-04-2009 02:42AM

starbelgrade wrote: »

Handy. I'll get a few bottles next time i'm in.

:rolleyes:

Robbo · 01-04-2009 08:10AM

Ah Derry and your E85. Tell me, did you run the electricity off the gas and the gas off the electricity and save €10 a week?

Ever care to quantify some of your assumptions on the efficacy of your adventures in bioethanol with say with a dyno run or a statistically sound study?

Bandara · 01-04-2009 09:03AM

Derry, with respect you really need to just let it go mate, your crusade of fantasy is worrying to be honest.

And for the record you are completely and utterly incorrect in EVERYTHING your saying.

Tesco no longer bring their fuel in via the north (like they used too up to 6 months ago) or any other different methods. They are nowe drawing out of TOP in the Docks for pretty much all their fuel which means (devasting as it will be to you) that they are drawing from the same single gantry that Esso, Applegreen, Corrib, Campus, Great Gas, most of Maxol and a lot of Topaz draw out off.

Which means then that about 90% of the garages in the country are selling the identical product from the identical tanker that docks and offloads into the same identical holding tanks in Dublins docks.

ie ALL fuel sold in Dublin forecourts is IDENTICAL.

but hey, why let the truth spoil a good conspiracy theory, no matter how bullsh!t it is.

I expect you'll now do your usual and reply with some 5 paragraph rambling that makes no sense and makes no point. Or else you'll do what you always do when your bull is proved to be just that..............vanish.

stealthyspeeder · 01-04-2009 09:13AM

Hammertime wrote: »

Derry, with respect you really need to just let it go mate, your crusade of fantasy is worrying to be honest.

And for the record you are completely and utterly incorrect in EVERYTHING your saying.

Tesco no longer bring their fuel in via the north (like they used too up to 6 months ago) or any other different methods. They are nowe drawing out of TOP in the Docks for pretty much all their fuel which means (devasting as it will be to you) that they are drawing from the same single gantry that Esso, Applegreen, Corrib, Campus, Great Gas, most of Maxol and a lot of Topaz draw out off.

Which means then that about 90% of the garages in the country are selling the identical product from the identical tanker that docks and offloads into the same identical holding tanks in Dublins docks.

ie ALL fuel sold in Dublin forecourts is IDENTICAL.

but hey, why let the truth spoil a good conspiracy theory, no matter how bullsh!t it is.

I expect you'll now do your usual and reply with some 5 paragraph rambling that makes no sense and makes no point. Or else you'll do what you always do when your bull is proved to be just that..............vanish.

I have no knowledge about the petrol distribution network, but I was wondering if you could help my curiousity hammertime?

How can Topaz advertise "better" or "greener" fuel if they are all the same in Dublin? are they talking sh*te?

Maxol E85 whats the deal with it in your experience/opinion? (I know its been covered in other threads but seems to be quite a difference in opinion and I reckon you might know someting as a garage owner?)

Why can we not get 98 RON petrol in the south?

Thanks!

Seth Brundle · 01-04-2009 09:28AM

Hammertime wrote: »

Derry, with respect you really need to just let it go mate, your crusade of fantasy is worrying to be honest.

And for the record you are completely and utterly incorrect in EVERYTHING your saying.

Tesco no longer bring their fuel in via the north (like they used too up to 6 months ago) or any other different methods. They are nowe drawing out of TOP in the Docks for pretty much all their fuel which means (devasting as it will be to you) that they are drawing from the same single gantry that Esso, Applegreen, Corrib, Campus, Great Gas, most of Maxol and a lot of Topaz draw out off.

Which means then that about 90% of the garages in the country are selling the identical product from the identical tanker that docks and offloads into the same identical holding tanks in Dublins docks.

ie ALL fuel sold in Dublin forecourts is IDENTICAL.

but hey, why let the truth spoil a good conspiracy theory, no matter how bullsh!t it is.

I have outlined this many times and yet again I was talking to the guys in the two Topaz Terminals over the last few days and repeated this discussion.
Topaz supply Tesco and like Esso and some other retailers, they get raw unleaded.
Topaz, Maxol and some others sell ULG mixed with ethanol and other additives.
Some Texacos order additives such as Techron whereas other Texaco's don't order additives and get the same stock as Tesco.

I also queried the possibility of the scenario where raw unleaded orderd by Tesco is delivered to say Topaz (as Tesco's tanks couldn't hold it) or vice versa and the response was that whilst it could happen, its very, very unlikely.

Just because a tanker is filled at a gantry doesn't mean that its getting the same product as the last tanker that filled there! The additives are added to the product at the gantry.

Bandara · 01-04-2009 09:33AM

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I have no knowledge about the petrol distribution network, but I was wondering if you could help my curiousity hammertime?

How can Topaz advertise "better" or "greener" fuel if they are all the same in Dublin? are they talking sh*te?

A paper never refused ink !

Maxol E85 whats the deal with it in your experience/opinion? (I know its been covered in other threads but seems to be quite a difference in opinion and I reckon you might know someting as a garage owner?)

To be honest I'm not expert in it, its a bit of a pointless product I think as 99% of people don't give a toss what they put in thier car as long as it the cheapest they can find. "Saving the environment" is not really a strong selling point where petrol is concerned sadly.

Why can we not get 98 RON petrol in the south?

Zero market for it, waste of a pump on a forecourt. the old Super-Unleaded was the same, complete waste of time, not least helped by most stations putting regular unleaded into the Super-Unleaded tank and creaming the profits (alegedly of course )

Thanks!

No prob

Mitch Connor · 01-04-2009 09:36AM

Myself and two people I know filled up at the tesco in Dundrum a few months ago (posted about it on here) and we all experienced a very noticable drop in fuel economy, for the same driving we would normally do. For the record, I filled with Diesel, the other two lads filled with Petrol, but the drop in performance was noticable for all of us.

Tipsy Mac · 01-04-2009 09:36AM

Onkle wrote: »

I don't think tesco maintain their tanks and pumps as well as other supppliers. Not having them cleaned leads to a build of of moisture and 'gunk'.

Id imagine given the quick turnover of fuel at Tesco stations it would likely have the least moisture and gunk buildup problems

Bandara · 01-04-2009 09:36AM

kbannon wrote: »

I have outlined this many times and yet again I was talking to the guys in the two Topaz Terminals over the last few days and repeated this discussion.
Topaz supply Tesco and like Esso and some other retailers, they get raw unleaded.
Topaz, Maxol and some others sell ULG mixed with ethanol and other additives.
Some Texacos order additives such as Techron whereas other Texaco's don't order additives and get the same stock as Tesco.

I also queried the possibility of the scenario where raw unleaded orderd by Tesco is delivered to say Topaz (as Tesco's tanks couldn't hold it) or vice versa and the response was that whilst it could happen, its very, very unlikely.

Just because a tanker is filled at a gantry doesn't mean that its getting the same product as the last tanker that filled there! The additives are added to the product at the gantry.

and we've butted heads over this before my friend

I'm telling you catagorically that I REGULARY (ie once a week at least) get fuel routed to me from either Topaz, Maxol or Applegreen as they cannot take the full load (I have a very large storage capacity).

From the top of my head I know in the past 10 days I've got a 14k unl load left from an AppleGreen, another 8k derv load from Applegreen and a 21k Topaz load.

Bandara · 01-04-2009 09:38AM

Onkle wrote: »

I don't think tesco maintain their tanks and pumps as well as other supppliers. Not having them cleaned leads to a build of of moisture and 'gunk'.

I'm not 100% but I think Tesco actually have a standing 3 month service done on their lines and filters by Forecourt Systems, which would pretty much make them the best maintained sites in the country as most places do it yearly (or never).

Seth Brundle · 01-04-2009 09:40AM

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Why can we not get 98 RON petrol in the south?

What is the Octane Rating of E5 compared to ordinary Unleaded
The Octane Rating of Ordinary unleaded ranges from 95.0 to 95.9 – average 95.5. The Octane rating of E5 is higher and has been measured at 99.

http://www.maxol.ie/general-content/e5-questions-answers.html#What%20vehicles%20can%20use%20E5

However, I have heard that this is the same as the Topaz stuff which is 95RON so I'm not quite sure which to believe!

Bandara · 01-04-2009 09:55AM

kbannon wrote: »

http://www.maxol.ie/general-content/e5-questions-answers.html#What%20vehicles%20can%20use%20E5

However, I have heard that this is the same as the Topaz stuff which is 95RON so I'm not quite sure which to believe!

I'm neither Maxol or Topaz and E5 is the bog standard fuel delivered to me and everyone now.

You don't get an option, you just get E5 delivered to you.

claiva · 01-04-2009 10:07AM

Its all in the additives guys. however, I'd say the fuel economy issues are morte to do with the calibration of the pumps being used and the time of day that they are being used. there can be massive variances in the volume pumped from a nozzle from a pump at different times of the day.

fuel expands and therefore the hotter the tank is the more expanded the fuel. therefore when it goes into your car - your car tank may be full, but the next morning it will be a lot less full.

Also, the weights and measures equivalent here is a joke. they never do checks and this means that when you pump 20 litres into your car, you could quite easily only get 18 litres.

By the way, the whole cleaner, more efficient thing that company are bangin on about at the moment is complete horse manure. Shell invented the concept (by adding cleaners as additives) but never dared to brag about it as it would be impossible to prove.

Bandara · 01-04-2009 10:12AM

claiva wrote: »

Its all in the additives guys. however, I'd say the fuel economy issues are morte to do with the calibration of the pumps being used and the time of day that they are being used. there can be massive variances in the volume pumped from a nozzle from a pump at different times of the day.

fuel expands and therefore the hotter the tank is the more expanded the fuel. therefore when it goes into your car - your car tank may be full, but the next morning it will be a lot less full.

Also, the weights and measures equivalent here is a joke. they never do checks and this means that when you pump 20 litres into your car, you could quite easily only get 18 litres.

By the way, the whole cleaner, more efficient thing that company are bangin on about at the moment is complete horse manure. Shell invented the concept (by adding cleaners as additives) but never dared to brag about it as it would be impossible to prove.

How?

Farls · 01-04-2009 10:49AM

Hammertime wrote: »

How?

If your bored it explains it in here

claiva · 01-04-2009 10:51AM

Hammertime wrote: »

How?

it can vary because fuel expands. this means that at 7am you will get 20 litres of fluid from the pump. at 4pm on a hot day, the fuel in the ground will have expanded and when you pump 20 litres through the nozzle into your car tank you will actually have less that 20 litres when it contracts (cools down).

the best time to fill your car is in the morning.

This is the reason that tank level gauges are calibrated to 80-85%. to allow for this environmental variance. It is also the reason the tanks themselves are triple skinned and insulated etc etc.

Old garages do not have such technology.

>>>or you could read the 63 pages in the report Farls posted<<<

woody33 · 01-04-2009 11:04AM

Anybody know where the Suzuki garage opposite WIT on the Cork road in Waterford get their petrol? They are usually cheaper than Tesco, and they're a lot less expensive than the two garages in Tramore owned by the same bloke.

Bandara · 01-04-2009 11:36AM

claiva wrote: »

it can vary because fuel expands. this means that at 7am you will get 20 litres of fluid from the pump. at 4pm on a hot day, the fuel in the ground will have expanded and when you pump 20 litres through the nozzle into your car tank you will actually have less that 20 litres when it contracts (cools down).

the best time to fill your car is in the morning.

This is the reason that tank level gauges are calibrated to 80-85%. to allow for this environmental variance. It is also the reason the tanks themselves are triple skinned and insulated etc etc.

Old garages do not have such technology.

>>>or you could read the 63 pages in the report Farls posted<<<

hmmmm

then how does this happen when the fuel in my tanks, which are buried a good way underground, is always between fixed temperature limits (otherwise an alarm sensor goes off)

Kind of messes up the theory a bit.

MYTH BUSTERS

Morning fill-ups. A common tip is to buy gasoline in the morning, when the air is cool, rather than in the heat of the day. The theory is that the cooler gasoline will be denser, so you will get more for your money. But the temperature of the gasoline coming out of the fuel nozzle changes very little, if at all, during any 24-hour stretch. Any extra gas you get will be negligible.

Air conditioning vs. opening windows. Some people advise you not to run the air conditioner because it puts more of a load on the engine, which can decrease fuel economy. But others say that opening the windows at highway speeds can affect gas mileage even more by disrupting the vehicle's aerodynamics. Our tests show that neither makes enough of a difference to worry about. Using air conditioning while driving at 65 mph reduced the Camry's gas mileage by about 1 mpg. The effect of opening the windows at 65 mph was not even measurable.

A dirty air filter. Our tests show that driving with a dirty air filter no longer has any impact on fuel economy, as it did with older engines. That's because modern engines use computers to precisely control the air/fuel ratio, depending on the amount of air coming in through the filter. Reducing airflow causes the engine to automatically reduce the amount of fuel being used. Fuel economy didn't change, but the Camry accelerated much more slowly with a dirty filter.

Liquids, like everything else, do expand and contract with temperature, but not by much. Since gas is stored in large tanks underground, the temperature doesn't vary enough to make any significant difference in volume. Your fuel economy, however, does vary with temperature. Most engines will burn more gas when it's cold, because the engine computer keeps the A/F ratio in stoichimetric balance. Colder air contains more oxygen, so the computer will inject more fuel. The difference isn't much, though, unless you drive at high speeds and/or accelerate hard most of the time.

Zube · 01-04-2009 11:58AM

claiva wrote: »

fuel expands and therefore the hotter the tank is the more expanded the fuel. therefore when it goes into your car - your car tank may be full, but the next morning it will be a lot less full.

From that report:

2ºC will result in 0.25% volume change for a typical petrol and 8ºC will
result in a 1% change.

So fuel buried in underground insulated tanks would have to change temperature by 8 degrees over the course of a day to change volume by 1%, which you wouldn't notice anyhow.

In other words, you're talking nonsense.

derry · 01-04-2009 01:35PM

Hammertime wrote: »

Derry, with respect you really need to just let it go mate, your crusade of fantasy is worrying to be honest.

And for the record you are completely and utterly incorrect in EVERYTHING your saying.

Tesco no longer bring their fuel in via the north (like they used too up to 6 months ago) or any other different methods. They are nowe drawing out of TOP in the Docks for pretty much all their fuel which means (devasting as it will be to you) that they are drawing from the same single gantry that Esso, Applegreen, Corrib, Campus, Great Gas, most of Maxol and a lot of Topaz draw out off.

Which means then that about 90% of the garages in the country are selling the identical product from the identical tanker that docks and offloads into the same identical holding tanks in Dublins docks.

ie ALL fuel sold in Dublin forecourts is IDENTICAL.

but hey, why let the truth spoil a good conspiracy theory, no matter how bullsh!t it is.

I expect you'll now do your usual and reply with some 5 paragraph rambling that makes no sense and makes no point. Or else you'll do what you always do when your bull is proved to be just that..............vanish.

seeing the other replies above you can no more prove that petrol in ROI is Identical

In fact petrol is never identical from batch to batch
look wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

and make your own petrol

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Your-Own-Gasoline

Petrol Fuel in winter is differnt to summer fuel.There are many additives added to fuels for all sorts of comersial reasons

The part of the petrol that does the work is the Naphta and the naphines, The rest of the stuff is sorta along for the ride as sorta controlers of the fuel eg change the octane and other stuff.

The petrol in europe has less Naphta and the Naphines than petrol in the USA so european petrol fuels supply less MPG than USA fuel even factoring in the differnt size gallon measures.

Best I can tell the petrol fuel in ROI is even worse then the rest of the petrol in europe as it has even less Naphta and the naphines

When you remove Naphta and the naphines you increase the other stuff which makes the fuel less good for MPG

If my MPG from ethanol is so similar to the petrol MPG and in USA often the MPG for cars using ethanol is 20% less than petrol suggests the petrol fuel in ROI is crud.So As a experment I made a gallon of fuel with extra Naphta and the naphines in it and the MPG went up a whopping 20%,

But bad as the other petrol was for MPG it didnt have such a foul smell so that suggested for me that real gungde was inside Tesco petrol

E85 which is 85% ethanol is a product made from crops like corn ,sugar beet ,sugarcane and most any crop includding spuds even tends to burn cleanly and if accidentely spilt wont damage nature as much.I really only like E85 because its cheaper and probly creates less gunge in the engine is harder to adulterate with padding like petrol can be made to higher padding rates and growing fuel in ROI will give jobs to Irish workers,The eco green trip isnt that interesting if it costs me money

The biggest problem when using E85 when the car is cold is that it smells like a brewery until the engine gets hot but its not a foul odour smell

If they put 20cents on the liter in the ROI in the budget expect to see a load of cars switching over to cheaper E85 often with retro E85 kits or if they are lucky the non flex fuel car they own will like my non flex fuel car be happy running on E85 without to change anything like tuning or advancing the ignition whatever.

Derry

Johnboy Mac · 01-04-2009 01:55PM

derry wrote: »

seeing t5he other replies above you can no more prove that petrol inROI is Identical

In fact petrol is never identical from batch to batch
look wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

and make your own petrol

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Your-Own-Gasoline

Petrol Fuel in winter is differnt to summer fuel.There are many additives added to fuels for all sorts of comersial reasons

The part of the petrol that does the work is the Naphta and the naphines, The rest of the stuff is sorta along for the ride as sorta controlers of the fuel eg change the octane and other stuff.

The petrol in europe has less Naphta and the Naphines than petrol in the USA so european petrol fuels supply less MPG than USA fuel even factoring in the differnt size gallon measures.

Best I can tell the petrol fuel in ROI is even worse then the rest of the petrol in europe as it has even less Naphta and the naphines

When you remove Naphta and the naphines you increase the other stuff which makes the fuel less good for MPG

If my MPG from ethanol is so similar to the petrol MPG and in USA often the MPG for cars using ethanol is 20% less than petrol suggests the petrol fuel in ROI is crud.So As a experment I made agallon of fuel with extra Naphta and the naphinesin it and the MPG went up a whopping 20%,

But bad as the other petrol was for MPG it didnt have such a foul smell so that sugggested for me that real gungde was inside Tesco petrol

E85 which is 85% ethanol is a product made from crops like corn ,sugar beet ,sugarcane and most any crop includding spuds even tends to burn cleanly and if accidentely spilt wont damage nature as much.

The biggest problem when using E85 when the car is cold is that it smells like a brewery until the engine gets hot but its not a foul odour smell

Derry

I'm far from an expert on this subject but are you advising me after all the comments made in this thread that I should avoid Tesco's petrol even though I use it on a high performance engine and have never found any ill effects? When in the U.K. using the same car several times a year, I've never had an increase in performance or M.P.G.......................

Let's just say you are correct and Tesco's petrol is not of good quality how come nobody has investiagted ie the AA, Consumer Agency, Fleet owners etc?

I'll grant you this: Multi nationals like Tesco are money hungry and I sure if they could cut the cost of purchasing petrol in bulk they would but as already stated Tesco tankers fill up from the same tanks as other brands, so presuming this information is correct you point seems null and void?

maxwell smart · 01-04-2009 01:57PM

The only problem with using E85 is the terrible fuel economy. I use a flexi fuel focus regularly going from Kildare to Cork and I get 450 km per tank, when I use E5 I get 635km per tank. Both bought in Maxol. There is a bit of a boost with the E85 alright, but the kmpg suffers badly.

anonymousjunkie · 01-04-2009 02:07PM

derry wrote: »

If they put 20cents on the liter in the ROI in the budget expect to see a load of cars switching over to cheaper E85 often with retro E85 kits or if they are lucky the non flex fuel car they own will like my non flex fuel car be happy running on E85

Derry

What kinda car you drive? Didn't know a non-flexi would run on bioethanol.

No More crap Tesco petrol for me

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