Is This Right?

Turd Ferguson · 30-03-2009 01:08PM

Terry wrote: »

I honestly do not believe that someone would go to th lengths of adopting a child just to get maternity leave. It makes no sense.

If they leave the child in the Phillipines (where the cost of living is very low) then she can get child support here. She'd only need to send 1/4 of the child support monies back because I'm sure that would cover any expenses her parents have.

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 01:09PM

Nodin wrote: »

By which astute logic I could select any random pregnant woman and accuse her of same.

You don't seem too up on the lengths people have to go to to survive in this world.

1/ The pregnant woman is carrying the child and should be entitled to some form of maternity leave, if only to allow her recover from childbirth. The woman in this case has gone through none of that.

2/ If its so tough to survive then why buy a new baby?

the_dark_side · 30-03-2009 01:19PM

Magnus wrote: »

One slipped though a loophole, no biggie. Although it's mad how she left the child back in the Flippins, what's the point in adopting then?

The point of adopting is obvious to me, 'adopt' a child in your home country... as in sign the papers and all the legalities.. leave the child with guardians (original family) and come to some arrangement where the €€'s claimed for the child in Ireland can be divided between the adoptive parent and the childs present guardians... probably goes on paying for a quick holiday to USA etc etc. WE ARE BEING RODE

oleras · 30-03-2009 01:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Source......http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/act/pub/0030/sec0006.html#zza30y1998s6

Why did you quote this ? If it was for me, my query was the 2 weeks paid leave.

beth-lou · 30-03-2009 04:56PM

All adoptive mothers are entitled to the same maternity leave as birth mothers, that is the law and it is there to ensure that there is adequate time for mother and child to bond and adapt. The majority of adoptive parents legitimally need this time for both them and the child.

I am not sure about your wifes friends situation as we only have your word and hers. But from a legal point of view she is entitled to the time off.
Since she is not a member f the EU I would imagine that she will not be paid while on her leave. I would also imagine, that she is not entitled to child benefit either, as she is not a member of the EU, although the fact that she pays tax here may qualify her to receive such benefits. If this is the case, well then legally I see no propblem.

As far as her leaving the child, this is all too common in poor countries. Parents go away to work and the Grandparents raise the kids, until the parents can return with enough money to make a life for them and their children. The harsh realities of poverty.

It is a bit strange that she has choosen to go to the states before eading back to her baby, and it is her baby, contrary to theidiotic statement made so far, but again that's going on stories from your wife and the girl in question isn't here to defend her position.

A guy I worked with is married to a nurse and I have to say the way she spoke about the foreign nurses was pretty nasty and hard to listen to and there was a lot of back biting and begrudgery going on and it seemed pretty rampant throughout the nursing establishment. so there could be a bit of exaggeration and bitchy nit picking going on. Or she could be telling the whole truth. Either way, what's the big deal. She has adopted a baby and is entitled to her leave. She pays taxes just like the rest of us. The rest is hearsay.

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 05:20PM

beth-lou wrote: »

All adoptive mothers are entitled to the same maternity leave as birth mothers, that is the law and it is there to ensure that there is adequate time for mother and child to bond and adapt. The majority of adoptive parents legitimally need this time for both them and the child.

I am not sure about your wifes friends situation as we only have your word and hers. But from a legal point of view she is entitled to the time off.
Since she is not a member f the EU I would imagine that she will not be paid while on her leave. I would also imagine, that she is not entitled to child benefit either, as she is not a member of the EU, although the fact that she pays tax here may qualify her to receive such benefits. If this is the case, well then legally I see no propblem.

As far as her leaving the child, this is all too common in poor countries. Parents go away to work and the Grandparents raise the kids, until the parents can return with enough money to make a life for them and their children. The harsh realities of poverty.

It is a bit strange that she has choosen to go to the states before eading back to her baby, and it is her baby, contrary to theidiotic statement made so far, but again that's going on stories from your wife and the girl in question isn't here to defend her position.

A guy I worked with is married to a nurse and I have to say the way she spoke about the foreign nurses was pretty nasty and hard to listen to and there was a lot of back biting and begrudgery going on and it seemed pretty rampant throughout the nursing establishment. so there could be a bit of exaggeration and bitchy nit picking going on. Or she could be telling the whole truth. Either way, what's the big deal. She has adopted a baby and is entitled to her leave. She pays taxes just like the rest of us. The rest is hearsay.

Go back and have a re read of my original post. I said i couldn't care less where she's from. As regards this topic being hearsay, i point to your above emboldened text and say the same. This is just your word and your friends wife isn't here to defend your accusations against her.

You say its a bit strange that she's going on holiday, well its equally strange that she adopted the child nearly a year ago and has yet to spend any time with it, but you still think she should get maternity leave to bond with it. If she wanted to bond with it then she should have done it at the start instead of dumping it on the relatives.

Like i said before, i'm not here to argue the Legality of it. I just think what she has done is morally and ethically wrong. I didn't ask is this legal, I asked is this right.

xOxSinéadxOx · 30-03-2009 05:31PM

let me get this straight, she's not going home to the child during her maternity leave?

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 06:28PM

xOxSinéadxOx wrote: »

let me get this straight, she's not going home to the child during her maternity leave?

She is, but after her holiday in the states first, and then she's coming back without the child again.

fred funk }{ · 30-03-2009 08:02PM

You and your wife should mind your own business.

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 08:06PM

fred funk }{ wrote: »

You and your wife should mind your own business.

Of course we should. And we should stand by with our arses in the air meekly waiting to be rode:rolleyes:
Any other gems?

Gummy Panda · 30-03-2009 08:25PM

Wait.. why would the Irish state be paying child benefits to this woman?

She is not an EU citzen and neither is the child. I thought that child benefits for kids in country only applied within the EU and with its citzens.

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 08:32PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Wait.. why would the Irish state be paying child benefits to this woman?

She is not an EU citzen and neither is the child. I thought that child benefits for kids in country only applied within the EU and with its citzens.

She's an irish citzen now. Been here for years.

Actually, she got her citzenship early late 2007, before the adoption.

mahamageehad · 30-03-2009 08:41PM

There are way more irish people riding the system than foreigners.

If we don't know the full story how can we judge?!

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 08:45PM

mahamageehad wrote: »

There are way more irish people riding the system than foreigners.

If we don't know the full story how can we judge?!

Like i said before, i dont care where she's from.
My point is that she is legally using the system but more importantly is getting maternity leave for a child she has neither given birth to nor made any attempt to be with.

pierrot · 30-03-2009 08:49PM

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

A Filipino nurse from the Phillipines

EDIT: Just checked and that is the correct spelling...how odd

But maybe Filipina for feminine? I dunno, who speaks Spanish?

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 09:00PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Wait.. why would the Irish state be paying child benefits to this woman?

She is not an EU citzen and neither is the child. I thought that child benefits for kids in country only applied within the EU and with its citzens.

Just thinkin that through and I'd say you have a very good point regardless of whether she has her citizenship or not. Is she still entitled to the benefits for a child who is not living in the EU? If she's not but she's claiming then she's fibbing about where the child is. Prior to this i just had issue with the whole Holiday/Maternity/Dump the child with the relatives thing. Now its quite posible she is doing something illegal. I shall enquire further

mahamageehad · 30-03-2009 09:06PM

Daroxtar wrote: »

Like i said before, i dont care where she's from.
My point is that she is legally using the system but more importantly is getting maternity leave for a child she has neither given birth to nor made any attempt to be with.

No sorry, my fault i wasn't very clear.

My point was that she's using what seems to be a legal loophole and taking advantage of laws and benefits that the majority of adoptive mothers rely on. It sucks but we have no definitive proof that she's doing anything illegal.

Before we start worrying about this we should be thinking about the Irish people who scam, rip-off and ride the system here.
Illegally.

Daroxtar · 30-03-2009 09:16PM

mahamageehad wrote: »

No sorry, my fault i wasn't very clear.

My point was that she's using what seems to be a legal loophole and taking advantage of laws and benefits that the majority of adoptive mothers rely on. It sucks but we have no definitive proof that she's doing anything illegal.

Before we start worrying about this we should be thinking about the Irish people who scam, rip-off and ride the system here.
Illegally.

I agree with you, we have no proof and it does seem to be some loophole or other. Doesn't make it right though. Anyone scamming the system should have their hole kicked.

P.S. Sorry for being so high and mighty in AH, but the politics/ humanities type forums are a bit fukn uppity so this thread wouldn't have normal responses from normal people.

not that everyone here is normal either

Nodin · 31-03-2009 08:41AM

Daroxtar wrote: »

1/ The pregnant woman is carrying the child and should be entitled to some form of maternity leave, if only to allow her recover from childbirth. The woman in this case has gone through none of that.?

So you're proposing discrimination against adoptive parents.

Daroxtar wrote: »

2/ If its so tough to survive then why buy a new baby?

Now this may come as a shock, but the wimmin (and occassionally the men) have the urge to have 'teh babies'....

Daroxtar wrote: »

She's an irish citzen now. Been here for years.?

So now you're begrudging an Irish citizen what they're legally entitled to?

Quazzie · 31-03-2009 08:48AM

Nodin wrote: »

So you're proposing discrimination against adoptive parents.

Not adoptive parents, just adoptive parents that have nothing to do with the child they adopted. It is my understanding that maternity leave is time to give the mother to adjust to parental duties, and to bond with the new arrival. She is doing neither (if what the OP says is right) then why should she be given maternity leave?

CreepingDeath · 31-03-2009 09:02AM

You are all making the assumption that there is even a real child involved.
See could've just made the whole thing up... had some forged papers or a relative working in an adoption department in the Phillipines who would vouch for her.

All ye seen was a piece of paper so far.

Quazzie · 31-03-2009 09:20AM

CreepingDeath wrote: »

All ye seen was a piece of paper so far.

We haven't even seen that

Fratton Fred · 31-03-2009 10:09AM

oleras wrote: »

You sure of this ? Links ?

No.

Men are not entitled to paid Parental Leave in Ireland, i think that is at odds with the EU guidelines. That does surprise me.

In the UK, which I understood to be in line with EU guidelines, Men are entitled to 2 weeks paid Parental leave and up to 14 weeks unpaid parental leave.

The mother in this case, btw, is getting Adoptive Benefit, not Maternity leave.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/social-welfare-payments-to-families-and-children/adoptive_benefit

31-03-2009 01:05PM

Daroxtar wrote: »

2/ If its so tough to survive then why buy a new baby?

That's a very disingenuous comment to make. For all you know she is infertile or unable to conceive for some reason. Without the full picture, you're just p1ssing into the wind.

Daroxtar wrote: »

....getting maternity leave for a child she has neither given birth to nor made any attempt to be with....

Again, you have no idea of her financial / monetary situation.....how do you know she hasn't made any attempt?

Nodin wrote: »

So now you're begrudging an Irish citizen what they're legally entitled to?

Exactly. Is she essentially "riding herself" because she's abusing the taxes that she pays? Cop yourself on and ask yourself why you're assuming the worst case scenario when you nor your wife have no idea of the full facts.

Thinly veiled racism masquerading as irate tax-payer, ftw. I know you did say "i dont care where she's from" but I don't care that you said it. If you're such a champion of the taxpayer why aren't you out catching dole cheats and "enquiring further" into other sh1t that actually matters?

Gummy Panda · 31-03-2009 01:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Exactly. Is she essentially "riding herself" because she's abusing the taxes that she pays? Cop yourself on and ask yourself why you're assuming the worst case scenario when you nor your wife have no idea of the full facts.

Thinly veiled racism masquerading as irate tax-payer, ftw. I know you did say "i dont care where she's from" but I don't care that you said it. If you're such a champion of the taxpayer why aren't you out catching dole cheats and "enquiring further" into other sh1t that actually matters?

I don't see any racism in the OP questioning this womans actions. Also the OP stating he doesn't care where she is from is usually due to people running into threads being the mis-guided champions of the minorities.

You have to admit if what he says is true it seems a bit suspect to adopt a child, return to Ireland without the child and when you have a chance to see the kid go to America instead. Its probably a case of the woman adopting her sisters kid and sending the child benefit home. Legally i don't have a problem with this as she has to take full responsibility for the kid and 200e a month would go a long way to help that kid in his home country.

Claiming adoptive leave and flying around the world on holidays does seem to be morally cheating a good will system though.

OP if you have a problem with this woman's actions then report it to the revenue/social welfare. It may be legal but your report might be used as feedback to refine some of this systems and procedures.

31-03-2009 05:59PM

Gummy Panda wrote: »

You have to admit if what he says is true it seems a bit suspect to adopt a child, return to Ireland without the child and when you have a chance to see the kid go to America insteadas well. Its probably a case of the woman adopting her sisters kid and sending the child benefit home.

1st off....when he says "we should stand by with our arses in the air meekly waiting to be rode"....it sounds to me like a standard run-of-the-mill response from somebody who thinks "foreigners" are here to do nothing but abuse the system and fleece us, the tax-paying public. That, in my book, equals thinly-veiled racism.

2nd, I've put a line through a word in your post quoted above and replaced it with a more accurate one. As i said above, nobody here can surmise what amount of cash this person brings home. It makes perfect (financial) sense to me to combine going home to your new kid with a holiday you've been planning/saving for as opposed to doing one then the other within a couple of months. Same goes for bringing the kid over here to pay someone a small fortune to look after them all day, when you have a family full of free babysitters back home in your own country.

My main snagging point is that nobody has a f*cking clue about anything to do with this woman's life. The person who said that the OP and his wife should mind their own business is fucking spot on. Instead, he now has half the story (if he's lucky), and is planning on taking this further. Is he "The Citizen" in disguise?

I just don't understand why he's getting his knickers in a twist and has made 15+ posts on why he thinks we're "getting rode"? Would he have the same reaction if it was an Irish person doing a nixer and not paying tax or one of his uncles was scamming the dole?

Just because it, admittedly, seems a bit odd to you and I does not mean she is on the fiddle.

Lastly, this part of your post

Its probably a case of the woman adopting her sisters kid and sending the child benefit home.

belongs in the conspiracy theories forum.

Gummy Panda · 31-03-2009 06:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Lastly, this part of your post belongs in the conspiracy theories forum.

Actually no it doesn't.

IIRC relative adoption is easier then agency adoption in the Philippines and bypasses the 6 month agency supervised custody period.

Flowergirl80 · 03-06-2017 01:53PM

I don't know this applies also to maternity leave or benefit but in order to avail the child benefit, the child actually must live in the country. It is a requirement and a letter usually gets send out from time to time to ensure the child is living with the parent at the said address. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/social_welfare_payments_to_families_and_children/child_benefit.html?

Tomatoheadfred · 03-06-2017 02:01PM

Don't pay child allowance to non Irish children. Problem solved.

pjohnson · 03-06-2017 02:05PM

Boards was around in 2009. Cool.

Is This Right?

Comments