Afghanistan and the history of Islamic terrorism against the west

Fratton Fred wrote: »

After the Russians left there were something like 15 different factions fighting for control of Kabul, the ultimate winners were the ones funded heavily by Muslim fundementalists, called the Taliban. I heard that from a former member of the Afghan Army, not the media.

Who created the Taliban?

Hookey wrote: »

You can moan about the evils of Western capitalism all you like (and I sympathise in many ways), but Islamic fundamentalism, and particularly Wahhabism, isn't just a response to those nasty Americans and Brits, and actually pre-dates their involvement in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia (e.g. its from the late 18th, early 19th centuries). Its a religious viewpoint that simply doesn't tolerate alternative ideologies (its convert or die basically), and its this kind of teaching that's infected all the Madhrassas in north west Pakistan. And you're right its about money, but unfortunately its about Saudi money (the home of Wahabbism), which is paying for this. If you want on "non-media view", read Bin-Laden's own writings; he's basically Hitler in a jelabba; advocating war against the West, but actually he's more concerned about wiping out Hinduism (hence the recent Mumbai attacks).

Bottom line is that their view of the world is fundamentally incompatible with ours; the problem is that we're attacking the symptom (Afghanistan), not the cause (Saudi Arabia). And that is because of money.

As for the "War on Terror" being a "bunch of crap", I agree, but probably not for the same reasons as you. I've been living in the UK for years until recently and I've seen how The War on Terror is being used to bring in restrictions and controls on the British population. Its the perfect enemy if you want to control your own population; vague, you'll never actually "win", and it can be anything you want it to be; far more useful than those Soviets with their nuclear weapons and giant armies. But just because its a load of **** doesn't actually stop islamic fundamentalism from being a real enemy...

Oh, and the author of that book I mentioned is a Brit historian born in India.

So there are islamic fundamentalists ot to get s westerners, for no reason? what do they dissagree about the west.

Since I'm aware I know human beings dont decide for no reason to dissagree with something for no reason.


You seem to project it as so, why? Religion is the reason you say? what exactly do they want? Could you give me non media based sources?

Bottom line is that their view of the world is fundamentally incompatible with ours

This is exactly the kind of crap I hear from Washington, T.V, George Bush/his sex buddies, Fox news and Bill O Reilly and any uninformed American.

Who is "our" and what is it, that is incompatitable to you? Who is with "you" on this sentiment. What exactly is righteous about the west over the east in this stance? There are alot of fundamentally and I mean really absurd wrongs that the west has been doing for the last 50years towards the east.

So what right do you and your "group" have to "allies" or the "west good people" over the east and whatever "enemy" that your blabbing on about.


You know this is exactly the problem in this world. We are all human, we all have desires, needs and wants. and one thing we all surely do is we all shi"t out of a pottee, but some people tend to think that thier sh!t never smell's, To the point, of sticking the finger at the person beside them. Put the head in the sand like an ostrich. This is what the west is doing. This is what your doing. Your making our sh!t like it's apologetic, and it doesn't affect the external factors to the world around us. We have an enormous and poignanntly negative impact on the east for the last 50years. The west is creating monsters over there intentionally.

I really have no paitence to sit and listen to you, point fingers and nit pick problems over there, when the west now is creating far more damage intentionally. All for the biggest curse in the world. MONEY.

We live in an imperfect world. Please don't insult the east and other regions like this knowing what the fundamentalist idealogy of what the west is doing there locally. The west is no better, and no example for the world by any means. This crap really riles me. It just is not acceptable. it is infact so hypocritical coming from us west to spew such judgments and imposure on other people just because we don't fundamentally agree with thier way of life. Ever hear of cleaning up your own backyard? This is what you should be doing before your all on the judging of what is going on in Pakistan etc. This is an imperfect world. Why constantly point out problems in other countries, when you have problems in your own country. I can sit here and point out many good things about Pakistan. I can sit here and realise what is currently wrong with the world, because I'm simply aware of what happens around me, I'm aware of what I do. I'm aware of my responsilibity. Once I keep a check on this I don't need to go pointing out other people's problem's. The USA love doing this.

It is frankly none of our business anyway. It is about money and money is the only reason the west are imposing on the east for the last 50 years. This is what is creating muslim extremist's that your dicusssing in the above. This is where the hate against the west stems from.

To be quite blunt. I'm sick and tired of the west ass shining all the time. For the last 8 years, I don't think we the west has any place to judge or give views on what's fundamentally wrong with the world.

We are all human, we all come with ****. And this notion that the east want to destroy us, is propaganda and paranioa to the highest degree. It is the greatest load of balony we have been spoon fed by the media for the last 40 years. We in the west generally have this perception that all people from third world regions are bitter,crazy and extremists.

It's quite idiotic on our part. I'm not all proud to be in this divide complex at all. It's for animilistic mindset. I.e dog eat cat, me vs you, Rep vs Dem, West vs East, Rich vs poor. This is all chaos and unlateral, unmodern and quite primiative behaviour of early man.

I wish I could sit here, and say we have evolved and bekoned to be better. Have we? I don't think we have, or well there is still alot of people so cot up with this conflict and division. They forget. So it's understandable.

diverdriver wrote: »

s.
I'm afraid Hookey is right Mysterious, you just need to do your research better. T

What kind of research should i go for, eh. I know far more about this topic than I need to express here. I'm just laying down a few principals and basics facts of what is reallly going on, and why there is muslim extremism. You and hookey seem to be the ones who know little and go on the bias here.

the west did not cause Islamic extremism because it predates western interest in the region. Yours is a typical viewpoint of someone with a west-centric point of view.

No it isn't I just have a better perspective on both sides. Your focused on what the media say, and what the west says. I've sat back and observed and now I've observed you, and your know different to the west stereotypes.

It goes back a lot further than that. You are insulting the east by assuming that the root of all their problems and disputes lie in the west.

Your really pissing me off now. Do do not twist my words. I made this point to hookey. I.E stop focusing on other's people's problems and focus on your own. I made my point specifically clear on this board. That the east has it's own problem's without the west causing more strife and hatred. Right now the only thing that is fuelling the hatred, is the west loathing in greed.

Quite honestly we are not that important to them. Currently they have a baleful interest in us but mostly their fellow Muslims attract most hatred.

Since you said that as a point, your clearly brainwashed, what you said was ignorant and insulting, I shall not have to dicuss that further, that was just embarrassing.

We are infidels after all and barely worthy of a bullet.

Who exactly? Did fox news tell you this? Just want to clarify an important point.

There are human beings living in other parts of the world. can I ask are you from the UK or America? dare I say Ireland even?

I'm afraid you are fairly typical of many in the west who attribute a viewpoint to people that fits your own agenda.

My agenda, rofl. What is my agenda. You obviously don't understand what the real issue is here. Watch to much T.V I guess. Could you tell me about this sterotype, most people don't fit my sterotype at all.

Frankly the extremists would put a bullet in your head quicker than the avearage American Republican born again Christian. You are exactly the sort of people they hate.

Nobody hates for no reason, bet you think they do, cus thats what fox news beats into their viewers everyday. I have many muslims friends and I never met one hateful person at all.

One or two people went to Iraq and Afghanistan and found that out to their cost. Go and study the subject then come back an lecture us.

Please tell me who they are, otherwise your waffling. I have seen many reports of Iraq veterans coming back saying they were disgusted of this war. They wished they never went in the first place. There were no terorrist target, Iraq was not a threat to America. Finally just to end this paragraph snappy, you might want to google a few horrific stories of solidiers coming back with their stories of been brainwashed to hate and kill any civilian they see, since there was no target they had to just kill everything in their sight. Many solidiers came back feeling remorsed, sick and guilty.

You obviously have no idea why America went into these countries. I don't need to lecture you, cus if I did, you would have alot more knowledge on this topic already. I'm just giving you a bit of actuallity.

cuppa wrote: »

mysterious your ideas seem crazy to me.

What was, in which part.

I never knew sense would seem crazy. But at least I try to make sense out of reality. This is a crazy world. With much deception to go around.

Maybe your just not aware.

diverdriver wrote: »

Mysterious you are a classic modern 'expert', who has 'educated' themselves via the internet. It's always illuminating, illuminati? to check out other posts by people debate with. I came across this cracker in the conspiracy forum which you started: Hmm:rolleyes: Judging by the number of links you have indeed done a fair bit of research. It explains your point of view and indeed state of mind!

Back in the real world, go and find some books to read. Not those kind of books but real books written by scholars who've researched the topic.

Indeed that would the answer I would give to the OP. There is no one book to read. You need to consult several, many indeed are out of print. You have to be wary of recently published books written on the back of recent events. Often the best explanations come from books written before it all kicked off. I mentioned the 'Seven Pillars of Wisdom'. Lawrence gained a great insight into the Arab mind and more importantly was able to explain it to us. No need for conspiracy theories and end of times fantasies.

You are classic of the people who point fingers all the time, and never see yourself behaving.

It's actualy classic. When you dissagree with me, you insult and put me into a bracket and labels. You get angry and say I get my sources from so and so.

The classical things about that, is you actually don't know anything about me at all.

So this leaves me the conclusion, you will not understand or become aware of what most people can.:rolleyes:

Hookey wrote: »

Mysterious, you've already decided that the poor old islamic world is simply reacting to western greed and and you're not going to be diverted from your anti-capitalist, anti-globalisation slant. The very fact that you insist on asking for non-media sources on the internet (they're all media sources!),

No I rather look for my own questionings, reasonings and facts. I also look to other people and thier views. I read books. I look up history. I look at how wars are created today. I look at what is the trigger.

I watch all news based sources. I watch the ones I don't agree with, purely to observe the agenda. For example I can look at fox news and use my awareness and see how they brainwash the people via their agenada of war mongering. I aslo study human behaviour and why people react and do the things they do. I do not believe the west goes in to attach the east for no reason. I do not believe the west are there for the good will. I do not believe the east want to attack the west for no reason. I do not believe that the west are not people, the same way with the east.

I can just see things in better perspective than you or driver. :P

Communication is a vital tool on gaining information. Travelling, meeting people and asking from their experiences. So your wrong. I don't depend on the media for my only sources.

makes your mindset clear. I could throw articles at you all day and all night about islamic philosophy (its by definition a proselytising religion, just like Christianity, which immediately puts into conflict with western pluralistic tradition), about the most recent rises in islamic fundamentalism (look up Sayyid Qutb), about the very basic differences in belief that mean sharia law will ALWAYS be in conflict with democratic principles, and I'd be completely wasting my time, because you've already made your mind up.

What about your own country and what the west does to the east too with their fundamentalism.

You keep forgetting the bigger picture. You keep pointing flaws outside yourself. See the dysfunction here.

As I said in an earlier post, I'm not defending the so-called "War on Terror", but it doesn't alter the fact that there are people in the middle east who hate us like poison, not because the USAF bombed their granny, but simply because of who we are.

Oh yes you are.

Your defending them. I'll prove it. because your on the offensive on every stance. This means your pointing out problems elsewhere all the time, in order to deflect the attention on what the west does.

This is the same propaganda the war on terror mofos use.


People in the east don't hate us like poisoin, Your so brainwashed on this it's embarrassing. BUt if your country America bombed my home and killed my family, Yes I sure will hate you for it. Logic is clear, not nonsense like you keep spewing.

wake up.

Duffers wrote: »

Mysterious, everything after the point where you failed to spell Capitalism correctly, I just skipped, barring the odd bit of lunacy that jumped out at me. You're the type of guy people meet at a party, talk to briefly, and spend the rest of the night trying to avoid.
English is clearly not your first language, I'm not judging you on that, but when you are spouting crackpot bullscheisse at least try to make sense dude.

'The aliens, the aliens, judgement day, etc baaah, it's all a conspiracy' etc:(

Well from now on I think you should be avoided, One for making a personal attack, the other reason I don't think my spelling or my personal life has anything to do with the topic.
The third reason, is your judgment is actually absurdly false and people don't avoid me. That is quite insulting. I don't talk about aliens. Nor do I talk about serious matters when I'm out socialising. There is a time and place for everything.

Right now I'm talking about The East/west conflict on this current thread. Your the only person an first to mention aliens on this thread.

You should take a look at your own post. :rolleyes:

Duffers, pointing out someones spelling mistakes because you can't argue your point across is really childish.