Northern Ireland.. Whats the big deal?

PK2008 · 22-03-2009 03:09PM

fingerbob wrote: »

I hope that with the above, along with the "getting one over the prods" statement, people are realising you have no idea what you are talking about.

So enlighten us then, what would be the real differences for Northern people if they became part of ROI?

fingerbob · 22-03-2009 03:15PM

PK2008 wrote: »

So enlighten us then, what would be the real differences for Northern people if they became part of ROI?

What are you talking about? What you said had nothing to do with the differences for northern nationalists if they joined the south. You think nationalists here have some romantic 1916 idea of the south, and talked some other bull about wanting to get one over on the prods. It just shows that you are clueless on the views of the average nationalist in the north. At the minute I'm quite happy for things to stay as they are as with the current political and economic climate a united ireland would cause far too many problems. Your views on what the northern nationalist wants are completely dillusional.

PK2008 · 22-03-2009 03:19PM

fingerbob wrote: »

What are you talking about? What you said had nothing to do with the differences for northern nationalists if they joined the south. You think nationalists here have some romantic 1916 idea of the south, and talked some other bull about wanting to get one over on the prods. It just shows that you are clueless on the views of the average nationalist in the north. At the minute I'm quite happy for things to stay as they are as with the current political and economic climate a united ireland would cause far too many problems. Your views on what the northern nationalist wants are completely dillusional.

So enlighten us about the northern nationalist viewpoint then as you claim to be more informed

fingerbob · 22-03-2009 03:26PM

PK2008 wrote: »

So enlighten us about the northern nationalist viewpoint then as you claim to be more informed

Well as I see it now even though a catholic majority is impending even when that happens I can't see any referendum swinging in the favour of a UI, as with the way things are going people won't want to put themselves in a worse situation financially. Nationalists at the minute want things in NI to move on and start to work properly, and we are seeing this beginning to happen albeit the setbacks recently. I seem to be just suggesting only nationalists want this, but really everyone wants it but a small minority. The sooner NI becomes undivisive the sooner a united ireland can happen at the right time. The unionist community needs to lose the siege mentality and this will happen eventually if we can continue to progress socially and politically.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-03-2009 03:52PM

Big problem with a 32 county republic for our politicians is that the balance of power would probably be held by the Unionists since a lot of parties would be reluctant to deal with SF and a FF-FG coalition is unthinkable.

galwayrush · 22-03-2009 05:24PM

Northern Ireland certainly feels more like part of the UK than part of Ireland. if ever we were to control the 6 counties and integrate them as part of the Republic, we would have to destroy most of it's infrastructure to make it seem more like here. It would take an enormous amount of money to drag them back to our standards.:rolleyes:

Karlusss · 22-03-2009 06:42PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Big problem with a 32 county republic for our politicians is that the balance of power would probably be held by the Unionists since a lot of parties would be reluctant to deal with SF and a FF-FG coalition is unthinkable.

So? What's wrong with the Unionists being in government?

Jim236 · 22-03-2009 09:48PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I wouldn't expect a swift response around here.

We could not afford to support NI in the style they have become accustomed to.
Better Healthcare and housing.
Real schools, not pre-fabs, not paying for the running of a school that you have to build yourself. And free school books.
Proper traffic policing.
Total broadband coverage, if you can't get ADSL they give you satellite for the same price.

Sounds more like a stab at the government than a valid point on whether we could afford the North.

TomRooney · 23-03-2009 03:25PM

flangdiddy wrote: »

I know theres a lot of history there, but what are they fighting for?
No offense to NI, but i visited the other day, and its certainly not worth 100 years of sweat!

I mean Dublin's much larger than Belfast, Cork's not even far behind,

I don't even think the Irish government would have the money to be in control of all those extra schools and hospitals etc

..Not that i agree with it being part of Britain either, I guess it should be a state in its own right or they should have a vote on what country it should be part of? (that would be true democracy). And then all the people who didn't get the result they wanted would just have to: a. get over it or b. move.

We all know it used to be part of Ireland, but many countries used to be part of one another (many of them a lot more recently than EIRE and NI, and they've gotten over it!)

Im not going to get into the divide between catholics and protestants because that is just wrong, they differ on such small matters.. certainly not worth a war anyways. Also, it seems a bit weird that Christians treat Muslims better than Christians treat each other because of these denominations of one faith

Whats wrong with us lads? Were making fools of ourselves
or should I say theyre making fools of us..

RIP all those who have died over something so silly as a flag or a border

are you 5 years old, this is the most simplistic view on the 6 countys i have ever heard.

what about the injustice of the fact it is historicly the irish nation, or the 600,000 irish people who live there under foreign rule...?

as for the cost of keeping the infrastructure of the 6 countys going, you seem to follow the myth that it would have a negative effect on the 26 countys. it would not, and the 6 countys economy is doing better than the welsh or the north of england, the 6 countys has the highest level of employment in the "uk"

culturally, practicly, and economicly unity of Ireland makes more sense than partition.

also the conflict in Ireland was never a religious one, the whole prod and catholic thing was just a smoke screen invented by the british gov to prevent the real issue of british occupation from coming to light.

Britain has no right to govern any part of Ireland, they never had the right and they never can have the right.

TomRooney · 23-03-2009 03:32PM

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Big problem with a 32 county republic for our politicians is that the balance of power would probably be held by the Unionists since a lot of parties would be reluctant to deal with SF and a FF-FG coalition is unthinkable.

that is true, it is partly the reason the 26 county administration are complicit in the act of partition and upholding it so vehemently.

the only realistic solution would seem the be a federal 32 county Republic, with provincial governments and a central government at the head of it all.

RaverRo808 · 23-03-2009 03:56PM

The big deal is that 6 counties of Ireland are forcibly occupied by a foreign power,and are refusing to accept the will of the people of Ireland,and we have a state down South that refuses to adknowledge the Norths sovreignty,and as a result we have civil war that will be waged until moves are made by Britain to withdraw,simple as

javaboy · 23-03-2009 03:58PM

RaverRo808 wrote: »

The big deal is that 6 counties of Ireland are forcibly occupied by a foreign power,and are refusing to accept the will of the people of Ireland

The will of the people of Ireland was expressed when they voted on the Good Friday agreement. Sounds to be like you're the one refusing to accept the will of the people of Ireland.

Fratton Fred · 23-03-2009 03:58PM

TomRooney wrote: »

are you 5 years old, this is the most simplistic view on the 6 countys i have ever heard.

what about the injustice of the fact it is historicly the irish nation, or the 600,000 irish people who live there under foreign rule...?

as for the cost of keeping the infrastructure of the 6 countys going, you seem to follow the myth that it would have a negative effect on the 26 countys. it would not, and the 6 countys economy is doing better than the welsh or the north of england, the 6 countys has the highest level of employment in the "uk"

culturally, practicly, and economicly unity of Ireland makes more sense than partition.

also the conflict in Ireland was never a religious one, the whole prod and catholic thing was just a smoke screen invented by the british gov to prevent the real issue of british occupation from coming to light.

Britain has no right to govern any part of Ireland, they never had the right and they never can have the right.

The economy is doing well because the UK government (Or english tax payer to be more precise) is contributing £6Bn per year to keep it going. the low unemployment is because the government moved a whole load of public sector jobs over there, all of which would go.

So, if the "26 Counties" can cough up several billion euro, (actually maybe that should be doubled because there would be 30% unemployment up there) to fund the place then sure, it might just work.

That is, of course, on the assumption that the people up there are happy to see stamp duty treble, their weekly groceries go up by 25% and their gas and electricity bills double. Not to mention having to pay to see the doctor.

RaverRo808 · 23-03-2009 04:07PM

javaboy wrote: »

The will of the people of Ireland was expressed when they voted on the Good Friday agreement. Sounds to be like you're the one refusing to accept the will of the people of Ireland.

The Good Friday Agreement has nothing to do with the status of the North or Ireland sovreignty,merely to do with the Norths administration and compromises on all sides to allow this to happen

RaverRo808 · 23-03-2009 04:18PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The economy is doing well because the UK government (Or english tax payer to be more precise) is contributing £6Bn per year to keep it going. the low unemployment is because the government moved a whole load of public sector jobs over there, all of which would go.

So, if the "26 Counties" can cough up several billion euro, (actually maybe that should be doubled because there would be 30% unemployment up there) to fund the place then sure, it might just work.

That is, of course, on the assumption that the people up there are happy to see stamp duty treble, their weekly groceries go up by 25% and their gas and electricity bills double. Not to mention having to pay to see the doctor.

Money is a small factor in this country being united,freedom and sovreignty is what is wanted not greed,yes there will be problems with the transition but thats a worthy sacriface

javaboy · 23-03-2009 04:20PM

RaverRo808 wrote: »

The Good Friday Agreement has nothing to do with the status of the North or Ireland sovreignty,merely to do with the Norths administration and compromises on all sides to allow this to happen

So there's nothing there about relinquishing the territorial claim to Northern Ireland in our constitution?

Fat_Fingers · 23-03-2009 04:35PM

RaverRo808 wrote: »

Money is a small factor in this country being united,freedom and sovreignty is what is wanted not greed,yes there will be problems with the transition but thats a worthy sacriface

Maybe for you its a small matter but not for the vast majority of people who are struggling right now. People might not accept maybe another 4% income levy to have united Ireland. Then think about budget we would have to have to police north.
Maybe you need to visit places like Ballymena and then consider your glorious reunification.

RaverRo808 · 23-03-2009 04:47PM

javaboy wrote: »

So there's nothing there about relinquishing the territorial claim to Northern Ireland in our constitution?

No its about the 26 county state relinquishing its territorial claim through articles 1 and 2,not the Irish peoples territorial claim

Fratton Fred · 23-03-2009 05:45PM

RaverRo808 wrote: »

The big deal is that 6 counties of Ireland are forcibly occupied by a foreign power,and are refusing to accept the will of the people of Ireland,and we have a state down South that refuses to adknowledge the Norths sovreignty,and as a result we have civil war that will be waged until moves are made by Britain to withdraw,simple as

blah blah blah 800 years blah blah occupied 6 counties blah blah blah palestine blah blah.

Christ mate, Ireland started it and lost, get used to it. Stop being such a sore loser.

(tee hee hee)

javaboy · 23-03-2009 05:48PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Christ mate, Ireland started it and lost, get used to it. Stop being such a sore loser.

(tee hee hee)

Stop trolling.

Fratton Fred · 23-03-2009 06:18PM

RaverRo808 wrote: »

Money is a small factor in this country being united,freedom and sovreignty is what is wanted not greed,yes there will be problems with the transition but thats a worthy sacriface

Freedom I would argue has already been achived both sides of the border. Sovreignty is nice, but it doens't pay the rent which is a far bigger consideration to people these days.

javaboy wrote: »

Stop trolling.

Apologies, I thought i would get away with it on AH:o

I will seek other ways to engage in meaningful discussions with the Republican Brethren.

Dudess · 23-03-2009 10:36PM

It's wonderful things are at peace (in general) now but I do find there is a considerable amount of... "revisionism" perhaps, from people down here: in their eagerness to be all anti "chucky" and tolerant of the unionist community, they practically dismiss the injustices that went on up there until the 1990s. I find that quite dismaying.

PK2008 · 23-03-2009 10:42PM

Dudess wrote: »

It's wonderful things are at peace (in general) now but I do find there is a considerable amount of... "revisionism" perhaps, from people down here: in their eagerness to be all anti "chucky" and tolerant of the unionist community, they practically dismiss the injustices that went on up there until the 1990s. I find that quite dismaying.

Maybe we just dont care anymore- its a pretty worn out story

Dudess · 23-03-2009 10:44PM

It's one thing to not care, but to sneer at anyone with a vaguely nationalist leaning, in a Conor Cruise O'Brien like manner, is just... I don't know what the purpose of it is.

Svalbard · 23-03-2009 10:54PM

javaboy wrote: »

So there's nothing there about relinquishing the territorial claim to Northern Ireland in our constitution?

That was voted for, yes, as part of implementing the GFA. The Irish demonstrated they wanted peace above all else. It does not mean we accept that NI should be part of the UK for ever more.

PK2008 · 23-03-2009 10:55PM

Dudess wrote: »

It's one thing to not care, but to sneer at anyone with a vaguely nationalist leaning, in a Conor Cruise O'Brien like manner, is just... I don't know what the purpose of it is.

Probably the same purpose as sneering at unioinists- pointless

philologos · 23-03-2009 10:59PM

Dudess wrote: »

It's wonderful things are at peace (in general) now but I do find there is a considerable amount of... "revisionism" perhaps, from people down here: in their eagerness to be all anti "chucky" and tolerant of the unionist community, they practically dismiss the injustices that went on up there until the 1990s. I find that quite dismaying.

Dudess, I think the Unionists suffered, as Nationalists did. However, having learned a bit of the Northern government of Craig in Politics at uni, I have to say, it was a rather repressive setup.

Fratton Fred · 23-03-2009 11:07PM

Dudess wrote: »

It's one thing to not care, but to sneer at anyone with a vaguely nationalist leaning, in a Conor Cruise O'Brien like manner, is just... I don't know what the purpose of it is.

There is a big difference between fighting for people's rights and fighting over a line on a map. The important war is over, there is peace and ever increasing tolerence. Ok, most people aspire to a united Ireland but people who bang on about it as though it is the most important thing in the world need a reality check, especially those tucked up on their barstool in Dublin.

Jim236 · 23-03-2009 11:12PM

javaboy wrote: »

So there's nothing there about relinquishing the territorial claim to Northern Ireland in our constitution?

No both sides of the border voted on 2 very different things. The North voted on whether or not to accept the GFA which was seen as a path to peace. The South voted on whether or not to remove the constitutional claim over the North of Ireland, but like someone else said just because people voted to do this doesn't mean the people want the North part of the UK. At the time it was seen as the necessary thing to do to get peace in the North, as Unionists would've been unwilling to engage in any peace process as long as we maintained our claim over the North. The public's support of a United Ireland was shown in a Sunday Business Post poll taken back in 2006 when around 80% said they supported a United Ireland.

PK2008 · 23-03-2009 11:20PM

One big difference that a United Ireland would bring about would be the end of all these kind of threads

What would all the armchair republicans complain about then though??

Northern Ireland.. Whats the big deal?

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