Au Pairs - the great debate.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 08:47PM

Dudess wrote: »

Well then you need to be a bit clearer.

Hmmm... you specifically said "mother".

she is the mother of their child no?

Dudess wrote: »

Well when it comes to the loneliness/boredom, that's not much use because this is experienced particularly acutely on weekdays.
A break from the child will make the parent appreciate them more too.

huh? if they're working weekends they're two days away, you think asking a parent to mind their own child 9-5 for 5 days is asking too much?

Dudess wrote: »

The "career" sh1t is always thrown out (also, see opening post) - it's more about sanity really... oh and the need for a second income in some cases.

So work evenings? work weekends? both do part time? as i said 101 ways to do it

Dudess wrote: »

What about the mortgage? Mortgages went nuts in the past few years - and please don't mouth off your usual sh1te about people being stupid with money during the boom. Even a reasonably priced house had an insane mortgage up to the recession.

Well no one puts a gun to your head to buy a home, you can always rent? works for most european countries but not here?

the boom is only the last couple of years? what about before it? what about now? if you saved up a decent deposit and didn't want a 3 bed

again it comes back to the point of if you can't afford it then wait?
or make the adjustments so you can? it's fairly straight forward

Dudess wrote: »

If one parent works two or three mornings a week, then yeah, that to me constitutes being minded now and again... hardly "being brought up" - such melodrama... "yeah?"
Are you even a parent? You say you are, but your views on parenthood are so simplistic, I'd have my doubts.

well i would of thought most people with au pairs are working 5 days no? thats the idea of them usually?

no some men come on the internet and pretend to be girls for lesbian sex

I come on to it to pretend I'm a parent to piss people off:rolleyes:

CathyMoran · 22-03-2009 08:51PM

When I was younger I nievely thought that I would love to stay at home and mind kids, if and when I had them...then I looked back and saw what staying at home did to my mum, she never got back into the swing of things after having us and ended up being very isolated, she never worked again which was very tough on her, she was a very bright individual...

In an ideal world I would love if my husband could stay at home if and when we are lucky enough to have another child (we miscarried our first), I am not very maternal and my husband is a wonderful carer. I did not do what some women do and go for the richest guy who could let me stay at home with kids, I went for the man I love, should I be punished for that and not be allowed to have kids?

Having said that, when we were expecting our child I did look at creche and the thought of putting our child there upset me a great deal - maybe my opinions will change if I hold our baby in my arms. We could just about do it financially but it would be a struggle, I would like to send any child to private school...I think that we would compromise and both work 4 day weeks...as to an au-pair, it might be good for the child/children to pick up new language skills but I would be scared that the au-pair would not be good enough with children to look after mine.

22-03-2009 08:52PM

ntlbell wrote: »

So work evenings? work weekends? both do part time? as i said 101 ways to do it

when do you expect the child to spend time with BOTH parents at the same time? Do you not think that this is a necessity? A FAMILY should spend time as such and if there is always one parent working how can they do this? where is there time for the marriage (or relationship) if they can never spend any time together?

Hardly a healthy family life.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 08:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

when do you expect the child to spend time with BOTH parents at the same time? Do you not think that this is a necessity? A FAMILY should spend time as such and if there is always one parent working how can they do this? where is there time for the marriage (or relationship) if they can never spend any time together?

Hardly a healthy family life.

the same way they do when they're both working?

when they're both not?

22-03-2009 08:57PM

ntlbell wrote: »

the same way they do when they're both working?

when they're both not?

alot less time together as a family then!

Right now, I get to spend the whole weekend and every evening from 5 o'clock with my husband and Daughter. If I decided to work evenings and weekends I would be running out the door when my husband was coming in and then at weekends be out of the house while they are spending time together. That's not right for us.
So, I would get to spend the two weekend evenings with my daughter and husband. Yeh, real good family life.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 08:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

NTL bell. You live in cuckoo land.

I am a working mother. My husband has a very well paid job. We don't have a big house. I left work last May and returned in January because it was crippling us trying to live on one salary. It was also very unfair that my husband; who has worked so very very hard to get where he is, who does exams every few months to keep on top of his career, who gets paid good money; to have to think about whether or not he could afford to go for a couple of pints after work or buy a t-shirt! It was stressful.

Yes, I would like to to pick my daughter up from school every day and take her home/out for the afternoon etc but it's not an option. You have no right to call people who don't spend every waking moment with their children, a disgrace.

I dunno not being able to go to the pub after work to drink pints wouldn't concern me if I was able to spend more time with my child

I guess my priorities are offski.

beer - kids beer kids...your right, it's a tough choice.

You're a very lucky woman.

JC 2K3 · 22-03-2009 08:59PM

CathyMoran wrote: »

I would like to send any child to private school...

This attitude depresses me.

But that's another topic, I guess...

S.I.R · 22-03-2009 09:02PM

MagicMarker wrote: »

A post in another forum got me thinking about this.

What are people's opinions on Au Pairs? Or more to the point, parents who feel the need to hire one? Firstly, you're trusting a complete stranger to come into your home and practically raise your kid(s). Now I don't have any kids, but I don't know if i'd be comfortable with my kid 'bonding' with someone the way they should be bonding with me, all because I'm ''career driven''.

For all the women AND men out there, would you prefer to stay career focused and hire an au pair if it was financially viable? Or would you prefer to be a stay at home mum/dad?

paying someone to stroke stuff from your gaf over the space of several weeks...

sounds like a good job.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

alot less time together as a family then!

Right now, I get to spend the whole weekend and every evening from 5 o'clock with my husband and Daughter. If I decided to work evenings and weekends I would be running out the door when my husband was coming in and then at weekends be out of the house while they are spending time together. That's not right for us.
So, I would get to spend the two weekend evenings with my daughter and husband. Yeh, real good family life.

Well lets look at the options.

Both go to work full time and let your child be brought up by a stranger

get to spend a small amount of "familiy" time together in the evening before they go to bed.

or

both work part time?

both bring up your child, both get to spend time in the evenings and weekend?

one work full time, one work 2/3 nights a week

you get your child brought up by their parent daily and spend weekends and 2/3 nights a week together?

there is lots of ways to do it and adjust that will benifit the child rather than pawning the child off to strangers

iDontReallyCare · 22-03-2009 09:04PM

Dudess wrote: »

Well then you need to be a bit clearer.

Hmmm... you specifically said "mother".

Well some parents just can't afford that.

Well when it comes to the loneliness/boredom, that's not much use because this is experienced particularly acutely on weekdays.
A break from the child will make the parent appreciate them more too.

The "career" sh1t is always thrown out (also, see opening post) - it's more about sanity really... oh and the need for a second income in some cases.

That was your choice - it doesn't have to be others'.

What about the mortgage? Mortgages went nuts in the past few years - and please don't mouth off your usual sh1te about people being stupid with money during the boom. Even a reasonably priced house had an insane mortgage up to the recession.

If one parent works two or three mornings a week, then yeah, that to me constitutes being minded now and again... hardly "being brought up" - such melodrama... "yeah?"
Are you even a parent? You say you are, but your views on parenthood are so simplistic, I'd have my doubts.

The modern choices are,

Have kids, worry about them later. One must still have a life?
Buy a house, sure we can't afford it but we should have one.
Read above for kids.
We are stupid and should have thought this all out.
I am fat but I'll convice everone my size is ok.
I must be all about me.

So many choices but so many more excuses.

22-03-2009 09:04PM

ntlbell wrote: »

I dunno not being able to go to the pub after work to drink pints wouldn't concern me if I was able to spend more time with my child

I guess my priorities are offski.

beer - kids beer kids...your right, it's a tough choice.

You're a very lucky woman.

ha! yeh you focus on the beer. Jeez you'd swear he was a raging alcoholic!!! Funny thing is my husband never goes out after work for beers but wouldn't it be nice to have the choice after working so hard? Oh by the way, my daughter attends private school, does guitar lessons, french class, drama class, so I think it's clear where our priorities lie, a happy child.

Yeh, you're right, your priorities are offskis! you clearly don't think all that much of spending time as a full family unit. You're partner is a very lucky woman ha!

Dudess · 22-03-2009 09:04PM

ntlbell wrote: »

you think asking a parent to mind their own child 9-5 for 5 days is asking too much?

It's isolating and lonely for many of them, yes (all, in the cases of the mothers of young children whom I know).

So work evenings? work weekends? both do part time? as i said 101 ways to do it

If it's because of loneliness, that's no use - weekday mornings are the killer.

the boom is only the last couple of years?

Last "couple of years" yeah? That implies two years. If I recall correctly, this country was swimming in money in 2001.

what about before it? what about now? if you saved up a decent deposit and didn't want a 3 bed

The women I know who have young children became mothers between 2002 and 2008 - when property was extremely expensive. As you know. A 3-bed will be needed for a family.

again it comes back to the point of if you can't afford it then wait?

Oh right - til the woman's 45 maybe? Oh wait... menopause time.

well i would of thought most people with au pairs are working 5 days no? thats the idea of them usually?

Au pairs aren't childminders - the OP got mixed up. And this thread has changed course to simply focusing on the second parent going out to work at all - even just part-time. I think full-time for both parents would be too much all right - but I'm not going to judge those who have that going on without knowing their situation. It could be a myriad of other things besides career focus - parents are so exhausted all the time anyway, I'm sure they'd prefer not to have to work full-time hours if they could avoid it.

I come on to it to pretend I'm a parent to piss people off:rolleyes:

Well you do say things to contradict it/come across as inconsistent in that regard. I'm not saying I'm fully confident you're not a parent, but I have my doubts - merely going by what you post yourself.

CathyMoran · 22-03-2009 09:06PM

JC 2K3 wrote: »

This attitude depresses me.

But that's another topic, I guess...

Its not the be all and end all, no...all schools cost money nowadays in any case...I ended up getting a better start because I was home schooled for a lot of my first year because I was ill...which I suppose brings us back to au-pairs, ideally a 5 year career break when the children are young?

iDontReallyCare · 22-03-2009 09:08PM

CathyMoran wrote: »

Its not the be all and end all, no...all schools cost money nowadays in any case...I ended up getting a better start because I was home schooled for a lot of my first year because I was ill...which I suppose brings us back to au-pairs, ideally a 5 year career break when the children are young?

Interesting. How do you feel you turned out as a person? Did it help you for life?

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

ha! yeh you focus on the beer. Jeez you'd swear he was a raging alcoholic!!! Funny thing is my husband never goes out after work for beers but wouldn't it be nice to have the choice after working so hard? Oh by the way, my daughter attends private school, does guitar lessons, french class, drama class, so I think it's clear where our priorities lie, a happy child.

Yeh, you're right, your priorities are offskis! you clearly don't think all that much of spending time as a full family unit. You're partner is a very lucky woman ha!

eh?

if your both in work and when we were doing it only one of us were working how do we spend less time?

with all that private buisness going on it doesn't look like you were stuck for money then?

your story has some serious holes.

22-03-2009 09:11PM

ntlbell wrote: »

Well lets look at the options.

Both go to work full time and let your child be brought up by a stranger

get to spend a small amount of "familiy" time together in the evening before they go to bed.

or

both work part time?

both bring up your child, both get to spend time in the evenings and weekend?

one work full time, one work 2/3 nights a week

you get your child brought up by their parent daily and spend weekends and 2/3 nights a week together?

there is lots of ways to do it and adjust that will benifit the child rather than pawning the child off to strangers

First of all, part time jobs are very difficult to come by (I tried very hard to find one). Unless you want to work in tesco on minimum wage or something and if that's the case you clearly need to do alot more hours to make up the difference so that argument fails.

secondly, I personally don't "pawn my child off to strangers" she gets looked after by her grandmother. BUT, if a child does happen to be cared for by a non family member. If they are there from the time the child is born then they're not a stranger to the child.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:17PM

Dudess wrote: »

It's isolating and lonely for many of them, yes (all, in the cases of the mothers of young children whom I know).

again it's about finding a way to do, not not to do.

You go to a friends? a mother/fathers group? local coffee mornings? there's always something that can be done dash of creativity, bit of imagination, and if there's NO group, fecking start one.

Dudess wrote: »

If it's because of loneliness, that's no use - weekday mornings are the killer.

Oh right, I wasn't aware it only came on weekday mornings, that sounds like a meidcal issue more than anything else, maybe they might want to see a GP.

Last "couple of years" yeah? That implies two years. If I recall correctly, this country was swimming in money in 2001.

Dudess wrote: »

The women I know who have young children became mothers between 2002 and 2008 - when property was extremely expensive. As you know. A 3-bed will be needed for a family.

well if you restrict yourself to only being capable of raring a child in a 3 bed then yes a 3 bed is what you need.

I would of thought 2 would be fine with a view to going to 3 at a later stage maybe? but again, you find the way to do not not to do.

Dudess wrote: »

Au pairs aren't childminders - the OP got mixed up. And this thread has changed course to simply focusing on the second parent going out to work at all - even just part-time. I think full-time for both parents would be too much all right - but I'm not going to judge those who have that going on without knowing their situation. It could be a myriad of other things besides career focus - parents are so exhausted all the time anyway, I'm sure they'd prefer not to have to work full-time hours if they could avoid it.

Well you do say things to contradict it/come across as inconsistent in that regard. I'm not saying I'm fully confident you're not a parent, but I have my doubts - merely going by what you post yourself.

I don't know what to say, I've never heard of someone pretending to be a parent before and I've never been accused of it.

lets go with I'm a troll with no kids I pretend I do for fun.

22-03-2009 09:18PM

ntlbell wrote: »

eh?

if your both in work and when we were doing it only one of us were working how do we spend less time?

with all that private buisness going on it doesn't look like you were stuck for money then?

your story has some serious holes.

oh yeh, serious holes! cos I'm lying about being stuck for cash, yeh, that makes sense! I want the best for my daughter. Why shouldn't she learn an instrument, learn another language, have the best education? and because I was paying for these things with only one parent working I was literally smashed, we could barely afford food come pay day. So, should I stay at home, tell her no you can't play the guitar, you can't do drama, you can't go to that school, instead, you can stay at home all day with me? Why should I? She's happy and that's what is most important.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

First of all, part time jobs are very difficult to come by (I tried very hard to find one). Unless you want to work in tesco on minimum wage or something and if that's the case you clearly need to do alot more hours to make up the difference so that argument fails.

secondly, I personally don't "pawn my child off to strangers" she gets looked after by her grandmother. BUT, if a child does happen to be cared for by a non family member. If they are there from the time the child is born then they're not a stranger to the child.

Oh I see working in tesco is above you, but I thought it was to have a break from the kids it wasn't about trying to aspire in a career? so which is it?

Well I'm glad it's a familiy member it makes a really bad sitaution not so bad.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

oh yeh, serious holes! cos I'm lying about being stuck for cash, yeh, that makes sense! I want the best for my daughter. Why shouldn't she learn an instrument, learn another language, have the best education? and because I was paying for these things with only one parent working I was literally smashed, we could barely afford food come pay day. So, should I stay at home, tell her no you can't play the guitar, you can't do drama, you can't go to that school, instead, you can stay at home all day with me? Why should I? She's happy and that's what is most important.

No, you go to work while she's in school?

it's never that complicated.

22-03-2009 09:25PM

ntlbell wrote: »

Oh I see working in tesco is above you, but I thought it was to have a break from the kids it wasn't about trying to aspire in a career? so which is it?

Well I'm glad it's a familiy member it makes a really bad sitaution not so bad.

Point out to me where on earth I said that
1. Working in Tesco was above or below me? nope, I simply pointed out that due to the wages you would need to work more hours? but I guess that I mustn't be very good at maths if I'm incorrect.
2. When did I say I wanted a break from my kids?? or a career? again, nope, never did, what I did say was that I would LOVE to be able to stay at home - hence I did try it for a number of months. What I said was, for me, it was a necessity to go back to work to be able to afford to live. I also don't have a career, I have a job which is a relatively good one but if I wanted a career I would be on much better money but would also have to think about work after 5pm.

22-03-2009 09:27PM

ntlbell wrote: »

No, you go to work while she's in school?

it's never that complicated.

any chance of you reading my posts no? I already pointed out that it's extremely difficult to get a part time job - as stated I TRIED!
Try and keep up.

Dudess · 22-03-2009 09:28PM

ntlbell wrote: »

again it's about finding a way to do, not not to do.

You go to a friends? a mother/fathers group? local coffee mornings? there's always something that can be done dash of creativity, bit of imagination, and if there's NO group, fecking start one.

That is true. But when an extra income is needed, you kill two birds with one stone.

Oh right, I wasn't aware it only came on weekday mornings, that sounds like a meidcal issue more than anything else, maybe they might want to see a GP.

Oh yeah, weekday mornings are when partner/spouse is at work and friends are at work. Evenings, they're generally at home, free to visit.

well if you restrict yourself to only being capable of raring a child in a 3 bed then yes a 3 bed is what you need.

I would of thought 2 would be fine with a view to going to 3 at a later stage maybe? but again, you find the way to do not not to do.

A two-bed is enough at the start, yes. So then you need to move house/build an extension... increase on the mortgage, need for more income.

I don't know what to say, I've never heard of someone pretending to be a parent before and I've never been accused of it.

I'm not "accusing" you of not being a parent, just speculating - based on stuff you yourself have said/not said.

lets go with I'm a troll with no kids I pretend I do for fun.

That's quite plausible

. The first part is certainly true... I mean, you're obviously trolling whoopsadaisydoodles.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Point out to me where on earth I said that
1. Working in Tesco was above or below me? nope, I simply pointed out that due to the wages you would need to work more hours? but I guess that I mustn't be very good at maths if I'm incorrect.
2. When did I say I wanted a break from my kids?? or a career? again, nope, never did, what I did say was that I would LOVE to be able to stay at home - hence I did try it for a number of months. What I said was, for me, it was a necessity to go back to work to be able to afford to live. I also don't have a career, I have a job which is a relatively good one but if I wanted a career I would be on much better money but would also have to think about work after 5pm.

I mistook "unless you want to work in tesco'" as it was above you, my bad.

You didn't but it's the argument here for most that the parents were getting bored looking after thier kids?

my suggestion? get a part time job?

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

any chance of you reading my posts no? I already pointed out that it's extremely difficult to get a part time job - as stated I TRIED!
Try and keep up.

do you have a car?

do you live in dublin or any big city?

just about every take away in ireland is looking for drivers?

did you try tesco?

22-03-2009 09:35PM

ntlbell wrote: »

do you have a car?

do you live in dublin or any big city?

just about every take away in ireland is looking for drivers?

did you try tesco?

Again, please keep up.

You have just brought me back to the point of needing to work alot more hours to make up the money difference, thereby decreasing family time. For a start, you don't even get minimum wage delivering take aways. Also, seeing as you told me to work while my daughter is at school your arguments are, yet again, failing!

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:36PM

Dudess wrote: »

That is true. But when an extra income is needed, you kill two birds with one stone.

but the point is if the finacial sitaution is evaluated before then this shouldn't be an issue at least until the child is og school going age.

it doesn't kill the stranger bringing up your kids bird tho.

most people don't look at finances when trying for kids, they have them then go WTF having kids is pricey! it is!!

Dudess wrote: »

Oh yeah, weekday mornings are when partner/spouse is at work and friends are at work. Evenings, they're generally at home, free to visit.

Back to the first point, get out of the house with the child then.

Dudess wrote: »

A two-bed is enough at the start, yes. So then you need to move house/build an extension... increase on the mortgage, need for more income.

You might choose to do that but you won't NEED to do it, or you could at least put it off untill going back to work is more suitable to the kids ages

Dudess wrote: »

I'm not "accusing" you of not being a parent, just speculating - based on stuff you yourself have said/not said.

That's quite plausible . The first part is certainly true... I mean, you're obviously trolling whoopsadaisydoodles.

Can you point me to this "stuff" and i might be able to clear it up for you?

Dudess · 22-03-2009 09:37PM

Well you said your daughter was 13 and you're 30 - you say here you were financially set before having a child... at 17?

22-03-2009 09:38PM

Dudess wrote: »

Well you said your daughter was 13 and you're 30 - you say here you were financially set before having a child... at 17?

haha! I must have missed that. Brilliant.

ntlbell · 22-03-2009 09:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, please keep up.

You have just brought me back to the point of needing to work alot more hours to make up the money difference, thereby decreasing family time. For a start, you don't even get minimum wage delivering take aways. Also, seeing as you told me to work while my daughter is at school your arguments are, yet again, failing!

how?

do tesco not open while your kids are in school?

I know people making 700e a week working 36 hours doing delivery's that doesn't sound like minimum wage to me.

more than double in fact.

Au Pairs - the great debate.

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