Starting up a take away business

travellers · 11-03-2009 1:54pm #1

I've join Boards.ie recently and I'm amazed how helpful everyone is

Now what I have to say:

I'm in the process of opening a take away (for now it's just planning).
I've read some booklets on how to start your own business and am doing some marketing research and studying the competition before I decide where to open and what to have in my take away.

I'm also in the process of writing my business plan.

What I'm not 100% sure is what licenses will I need to open the business and where and in what part of the process should I apply for them and how hard and how long they will take to be granted.
I suppose I can only apply for them once I have a place rented but once I am paying for a place I would like to open as soon as possible (as you can imagine).

I would also appreciate any tips on:
- food suppliers
- kitchen equipment (for take away) suppliers (new and second hand)

And any tips you would like to share with me

murphaph · 11-03-2009 2:08pm

travellers wrote: »

What I'm not 100% sure is what licenses will I need to open the business and where and in what part of the process should I apply for them and how hard and how long they will take to be granted.
I suppose I can only apply for them once I have a place rented but once I am paying for a place I would like to open as soon as possible (as you can imagine)

You'll need to at least have planning permission for fast food use on your prospective premises. You do NOT have to be the landlord or tenant to apply for planning permission but it would be advisable to talk to the prospective landlord about your intentions to lodge a planning application on his property and get a letter of consent from him. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain from getting PP on his property for fast food.

He would obviously be under no obligation to 'hold' the premises for you however and your application will cost app. €1500 if you get a decent deal from a architect to draw it up and submit. Architects are crying out for work though, so plenty of scope to haggle.

You could ask the landlord to hold the premises for a specified time frame (you'll have a PP decision within 12 weeks at the latest.) for a fee or if it's been vacant for ages he might sign a contract to hold it for you for free so long as you commit to a lease if you are succeful with your planning app. There are no 'rules' about how you approach it-the landlord may be flexible or inflexible and you won't know until you approach him with your idea.

One other option would be to ask the landlord for a lease with a break clause for you. This would allow you to break the lease if you are unsuccessful in getting planning permission.

You could also take a chance and rent the place outright but this is extremely risky and I would not do that if I were you.

The easiest thing to do of course is rent a place which already has the permissions you need, but this will likely be more expensive and hard to come by. When were you hoping to get up and running?

YellowSheep · 11-03-2009 2:26pm

Hi Traveller

There are big questions? In order to get some sound and useful advise this needs to be structured.

Planning Stage (Budget, Forecast, Planning, License, Legal etc)

Pre-Opening (Sourcing, Design, Developing Concept & Menu, Fine-tune of same)

Opening
:cool: Post-Opening (Analyzing of F&B/Wage/Operating Costs, Proper Inventories and Open to Change where necessary etc)

Any help I can give you, please feel free to ask. Cheers Oliver

travellers · 11-03-2009 7:01pm

murphaph wrote: »

You'll need to at least have planning permission for fast food use on your prospective premises. You do NOT have to be the landlord or tenant to apply for planning permission but it would be advisable to talk to the prospective landlord about your intentions to lodge a planning application on his property and get a letter of consent from him. He has nothing to lose and everything to gain from getting PP on his property for fast food.

He would obviously be under no obligation to 'hold' the premises for you however and your application will cost app. €1500 if you get a decent deal from a architect to draw it up and submit. Architects are crying out for work though, so plenty of scope to haggle.

You could ask the landlord to hold the premises for a specified time frame (you'll have a PP decision within 12 weeks at the latest.) for a fee or if it's been vacant for ages he might sign a contract to hold it for you for free so long as you commit to a lease if you are succeful with your planning app. There are no 'rules' about how you approach it-the landlord may be flexible or inflexible and you won't know until you approach him with your idea.

One other option would be to ask the landlord for a lease with a break clause for you. This would allow you to break the lease if you are unsuccessful in getting planning permission.

You could also take a chance and rent the place outright but this is extremely risky and I would not do that if I were you.

The easiest thing to do of course is rent a place which already has the permissions you need, but this will likely be more expensive and hard to come by. When were you hoping to get up and running?

Thanks a lot those are really great tips

I was hoping to open around September 09 when everyone is back from their holidays and the kids back in school. Of course that will be dependent on finding the right place and dealing with all the legal aspects of the business and raising finance... This will be my first business and therefore I lack the experience... hope everything goes well :rolleyes:

murphaph · 11-03-2009 11:41pm

well, best of luck with your business and I'm sure the other guys here who are in the food retail business can help you further with the aspects of food hygiene and equipment and so on. Undoubtedly getting finance will be your biggest hurdle to getting open (staying open will really be your biggest hurdle!) so you'll need a convincing business plan. If you have no experience in the sector....try to get some! Opening a high start up cost cash business you know absolutely nothing about is not a good idea IMO.

travellers · 12-03-2009 10:06am

murphaph wrote: »

Opening a high start up cost cash business you know absolutely nothing about is not a good idea IMO.

The lack of experience in the food business is definitely my greatest weakness (that's one for my SWOT analysis ). Nevertheless I have experience in managing shops and groups in other areas of business and most of all I'm willing to take a step forward at take a risk (knowing I might loose what I invest)

I should be able to gather 60k of my own capital, I still need to do some projections but I'm hoping I won't be too much dependent on banks to raise more finance to start up. I planning to start small with a small place and a staff of 1 or 2 people plus me and my partner (part-time since we are not leaving our day jobs)

YellowSheep · 12-03-2009 10:45am

As I said. Let me know what you need, as I have plenty of experience. But one thing you really need to get a handle on is your cash control management from the start. especially as both of you only work part time. You get this wrong you might not open at all. Cheers Oliver

travellers · 12-03-2009 11:16am

YellowSheep wrote: »

You get this wrong you might not open at all. Cheers Oliver

Thanks Oliver.

Not opening is always a possibility if in any part of the planning process we realize opening a business will just be a disaster... But keeping that in mind we are committed to it!

Like I said we are at the moment doing market research in order to have and idea of what will be the best location for the business.

Now I'm trying to find out what licences do I need to open a food business and maybe wine.
- planning permition for change of use
- HSE inspection
- Fire inspection
- Wine licence

Do you know how hard, how long, and how expensive they are to get? Am I missing anything? I've read rules for a Wine licence have changed. Where can I find out for sure?

Do you also know how do I go to source suppliers both for food and equipment? So I can have an idea of all the costs I will incur for my budget.

YellowSheep · 12-03-2009 4:01pm

Yes location is important but so is quality. I know a guy who has three kitchens in three industrial estates and does 90% of his revenue in delivery. To be considerate.

Firstly you need change of planning for take away. With this in mind you have to ask yourself what product are you serving and what are the operating hours, which will be definitely a concern for any planner. The fire cert is part of your change of planning process. Should you buy an exciting premises make sure the fire cert is up to date.
HSE is simple enough. The kitchen supplier will draw the kitchen and your architect will do the rest. All depends on how big, what food, fresh or frozen....how long is a piece of string. Wine license is just applied for.

Regarding the cost of the unit. To furnish a restaurant from shell and core, which includes kitchen and all FF&E you are taking in the region of €190 per SQ". Now thats only a guideline. Go second hand equipment, cheap furniture etc and of course it will cost less.

Set-up costs are all subject to menu and offering. I have a couple of companies you could use.....but I guess do your market research first and than come back to me. Also have a look at http://www.owenscommercial.ie/

Cheers Oliver

travellers · 13-03-2009 1:12pm

YellowSheep wrote: »

Yes location is important but so is quality. I know a guy who has three kitchens in three industrial estates and does 90% of his revenue in delivery. To be considerate.

Cheers Oliver

To deliver or to deliver from the start is one of the thing I'm not sure.
If go for a location in residential place probably will only start by openning 5 to 10pm and with no deliveries and review after 6 months.

But what you said is a thing to consider...

And quality will defenitly be the mainstay of my business more than offering the lowest prices. I want to position myself as a provider of tasty and healthier meal than what you would get in your usual chipper. A place where you don't feel guilty going to and where you can get an healthy meal for the whole family.

delllat · 13-03-2009 1:44pm

travellers wrote: »

To deliver or to deliver from the start is one of the thing I'm not sure.
If go for a location in residential place probably will only start by openning 5 to 10pm and with no deliveries and review after 6 months.

But what you said is a thing to consider...

And quality will defenitly be the mainstay of my business more than offering the lowest prices. I want to position myself as a provider of tasty and healthier meal than what you would get in your usual chipper. A place where you don't feel guilty going to and where you can get an healthy meal for the whole family.

it will be tough to deep fry evreything in a healthy way

i think its a great idea though since i usually avoid that type of food for its unhealthyness

not necessarily how much it costs (although u dont wanna take the pi$$ completely)

I dont mind paying 20 quid for a decent steak dinner etc but i wouldnt pay 20 quid for a burger + chips etc

travellers · 13-03-2009 4:00pm

delllat wrote: »

it will be tough to deep fry evreything in a healthy way

i think its a great idea though since i usually avoid that type of food for its unhealthyness

not necessarily how much it costs (although u dont wanna take the pi$$ completely)

I dont mind paying 20 quid for a decent steak dinner etc but i wouldnt pay 20 quid for a burger + chips etc

Of course I'm waiting for the results from my market research to assess customers receptivity to the idea but am thinking of avoiding deep frying everything. My take-away will be more based on a BBQ kind of cooking - of course I'll have to have chips and some range of fast food but what I'll be betting in will be quality healthy food - the major weaknesses I see is cooking time. And I'll aim for prices above the traditional chipper but way below the restaurant scale.

It's good to know some likes the idea and is in fact willing to pay a bit more for better food.

And would you be willing to wait longer for your food than in a chipper?

fiscalstudent · 14-03-2009 3:34am

It's good to know some likes the idea and is in fact willing to pay a bit more for better food.

And would you be willing to wait longer for your food than in a chipper?

If you deliver menus in peoples doors, it is a lot easier for them to just call for a delivery then go to the effort of driving and finding your chipper just to try out the food, when they can stick with fast food places they know.

(part-time since we are not leaving our day jobs)

Considering you are investing sixty thousand, I do not think it prudent to be there only part time particularly at the beginning. While I'm not suggesting quitting your day job, opening hours should be considered to allow one of ye on premises at all times at the start.

The food business can be very tricky in that, if someone has a bad meal they are unlikely to go back. The extraordinary success of franchises in this industry can in part be attributed to the fact that the customer knows exactly what they'll get at every mcdonalds/4star/burger king. You will need to be on hand to deal with teething problems

FINAL POINT
takeaway is a cash heavy business, and people on the till can have quick hands!

______________________________
www.fiscalstudent.com

travellers · 14-03-2009 10:22am

fiscalstudent wrote: »

If you deliver menus in peoples doors, it is a lot easier for them to just call for a delivery then go to the effort of driving and finding your chipper just to try out the food, when they can stick with fast food places they know.

Considering you are investing sixty thousand, I do not think it prudent to be there only part time particularly at the beginning. While I'm not suggesting quitting your day job, opening hours should be considered to allow one of ye on premises at all times at the start.

The food business can be very tricky in that, if someone has a bad meal they are unlikely to go back. The extraordinary success of franchises in this industry can in part be attributed to the fact that the customer knows exactly what they'll get at every mcdonalds/4star/burger king. You will need to be on hand to deal with teething problems

FINAL POINT
takeaway is a cash heavy business, and people on the till can have quick hands!

______________________________
www.fiscalstudent.com

Those are all valid points that will need to be addressed.

The delivery issue is a big decision:
1. increase costs by hiring a van and driver for deliveries and cover a all city.
2. stick to the walk in customers - lower costs, lower risk, lower profit...

I realize the need of being present at the start of the business not to deal the issues we would expect but maily to deal with the unexpected. Me and my partner are keeping our day jobs but we are planning of openning the take away from 5-22pm which would allow us to be there most of the time.

It won't be easy to go from one job to another, having very litle holidays and free time but those are sacrifices needed when we chace a dream :rolleyes:

Another issue is the staff (and the quick hands) - That is always an issue in any business... We are thinking of hiring a friend of ours who at the moment is out of work... most people tells us it will most likely ruin the friendship... lets hope their wrong...

YellowSheep · 14-03-2009 4:11pm

Tell me. Who is actually going to cook and design your quality food? As without a good chef it wont work. Oliver

travellers · 14-03-2009 5:57pm

YellowSheep wrote: »

Tell me. Who is actually going to cook and design your quality food? As without a good chef it wont work. Oliver

It will be quality food but nothing too fancy (it won't be a restaurant)... My partner will be in charge of the design and writting the procedures and she and the person who we want to hire will be doing the cooking.

YellowSheep · 15-03-2009 2:17pm

Well Travellers. Good luck on your travels!

travellers · 15-03-2009 5:26pm

Well I am aiming for success but am prepared for failure...

Travelling is essencial to open your mind to new ideas and concepts. I am actually going to Egypt next month and to Croatia in June...

wyndham · 15-03-2009 6:27pm

travellers wrote: »

Those are all valid points that will need to be addressed.

The delivery issue is a big decision:
1. increase costs by hiring a van and driver for deliveries and cover a all city.
2. stick to the walk in customers - lower costs, lower risk, lower profit...

Why would you be hiring a van and driver? I may be wong but I was under the impression that deliveries in take-aways worked as follows:

-Driver supplies transport, pays for fuel, etc
-Receives a basic remuneration, ie €6-€8 per hr to be on call, meaning 5pm-11pm would be €30-€40.
-Take-away charges for delivery €1.50-€2 and driver keeps this charge.
-Driver keeps any tips.

There should be no shortage of local kids with mopeds or unemployed solicitors and architects willing to take on the job on these terms.
Don't see it as a big decision. The only aspect of concern is their insurance cover on the vehicles for commercial purposes, but I don't know if thats your problem or theirs. You can find out from your broker/company when planning yours employers liability.

You may also want a company-owned branded vehicle for deliveries, which would be good advertising when the neighbours see what the Jones are having for dinner and think, mmm, I'll have some of that, but thats a different kettle of fish.

Starting up a take away business

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