Phase 2 students totally unprepared

eroo · 16-02-2009 08:23PM

I've been watching this thread for a while now, and all I want to say is this;

For those of you lucky enough to be on Phase 2, be very careful about posting complaints on a public internet forum. You run the risk of getting in serious trouble imo. As Gardai here have already said, so many have gotten through it in the past, ye probably will too. Even if ye had protective/self defense equipment there is a good chance you would still get injured every now and then.

That's just my 2c folks!

Btw, stay safe and good luck!

Haz33 · 16-02-2009 09:20PM

I take your point and assure you I know "complaining" about any Garda issue is not going to solve it especially on here.
I am just curious as to peoples opinions on the matter and and how they form them. I am getting the views of the people who dont have them(asps) but feel they need them and opinions from people who have experience in using them and why they feel we dont need them. All this so I can form an educated opinion on it as opposed to an uneducated one I suppose.
Is this not what phase two is all about? Asking questions and getting the answers?
I hope the powers that be in Garda Siochana would take a positive view of this and if I were to be asked why I had a bee in my bonnet I would be more than able to justify my actions.........accountability and all that.
Thanks for your good wishes.

deadwood · 16-02-2009 09:34PM

Well said, eroo. Students should pay heed.

O.P.,
it might seem like members are a bit dismissive of your concerns. We all had this discussion before as we did with uniform, lights out in the "third level college", lack of i.t., station allocations (feckin dubs) etc.

I suppose we know it won't change because we don't like it and have, to a large degree, become resigned to that fact. The people who get on in our job are not the people who bring about change but those who conform.

Good luck with your training. Phase 2 is the best part. It'll fly by too quickly and you'll be on here complaining about paperwork then!

TheNog · 16-02-2009 09:50PM

I have deleted some posts on this thread after clarifying a point with a poster. Just in case any of ye are wondering where your posts are gone to.

Eru · 16-02-2009 10:44PM

Haz33 wrote: »

you better be taking the piss here. This his very helpful!!!!

You cant say whether having a asp would have saved injury here any more than anyone else but by all accounts it wouldn't have done any harm.
Everyone in GS gets the same training with an asp so students with that training would have the same as guards.
It seems to me the only ones against this are the ones who are carrying them. How ironic.

pvt.joker wrote: »

Ah come off it! I know id rather be able to defend myself than take a serious hiding and pocket a few quid!

And I deduce that neither of you have actually had the experience of being kicked up and down the street by a criminal. Ask senior lads, a few smacks knocks the arrogant superman complex out of you.

Haz,
The reason why people against you having an asp are the qualified gardai is because we know what we speak off. The ones for you having an asp have not as of yet actually been there or that. I listen to my doctor a lot more than a 1st year medical student. You have Gardai covering your ass so being assaulted is unlikely. Not saying you wont need to get stuck in but guess what? Most of the time its your own weight, strenght and ability that is used against a violent prisoner or suspect.

As you havent been on phase 2 yet I will give you some clear and good advise. When you go on phase 2 shut your mouth, keep your arrogant opinions to yourself, open your eyes and listen to the senior, qualified and above all, experienced Gardai when they try to give you some advise. Otherwise your in for a very very rough and unpleasant Phase 2. Plus a lot of phase 2 reputations will follow you to phase 4.

Especially if your sent on the beat with me and you take this attitude with you7.

the locust · 16-02-2009 11:11PM

pvt.joker wrote: »

Try preaching your "is the guards for you" to the chinese phase 2 student in cabra a while back who got their arms broken with an iron bar for "observing", with nothing but a radio for protection.:mad:

I think thats chinese whispers, i know that chinese member personally, and he was attacked after his tutor got her asp taken off her (thats the iron bar).

He got punched... no arms broken or anything...
Heck i got punched the other night at the start of my shift, no biggie. Punch em back and get on with the job.

deadwood · 16-02-2009 11:56PM

I think this thread has peaked.

If O.P. is satisfied with the responses, it should be locked. Discussing individual cases doesn't have any bearing on his original point.

Roger that · 16-02-2009 11:59PM

I'm always reading through these threads and I've finally decided to post something.

Haz,
You came on complaining about not having an asp, handcuffs, pulse access, and powers. YOUR A STUDENT! get over it.
Then you changed your argument to solely about not having an asp and your sidekick pvt. joker (guessing he/she also is freshly out on phase 2) joined the band wagon with you. What I'll say is, this is a public domain and you come on complaining about the garda training system for the public to see. Ye should have more professionalism here.
It's a dangerous job lad and you are going to have many more complains. Coming on here saying your 34 and have live experience and a know everything attitude is ridiculous. As you said in one comment, I'm 34 and seen death etc etc, and this meant the guards was for you! Didn't get that point at all. You might be 34 but you are still a student in training, there to be thought and observe as much as possible.

I wish you all the best with your career and your sidekick.

pvt.joker · 17-02-2009 12:06AM

Roger that wrote: »

I'm always reading through these threads and I've finally decided to post something.

your sidekick pvt. joker (guessing he/she also is freshly out on phase 2) joined the band wagon with you.

Maybe you should go back to lurking rather than posting, if that's the quality of your contributions :rolleyes:

Roger that · 17-02-2009 12:15AM

pvt.joker wrote: »

Maybe you should go back to lurking rather than posting, if that's the quality of your contributions :rolleyes:

Joker, I'm not going to get dragged into these childish things you want to start.
Didn't mean anything bad by the sidekick thing (just a little joke), just noticed the way you had to thank all his posts.

good luck

metman · 17-02-2009 02:18AM

the locust wrote: »

Heck i got punched the other night at the start of my shift, no biggie....

I'm sure if you make the tea once in a while your unit might treat you better....:D

goldie fish · 17-02-2009 06:13AM

metman wrote: »

I'm sure if you make the tea once in a while your unit might treat you better....:D

I was beaten up during Phase 2.

Thats the last time I'll tell bad jokes in the back of the patrol car!:p

ScubaDave · 17-02-2009 08:04AM

Thats for not buying a round at the unit night out!

mcguiver · 17-02-2009 02:21PM

Whats the old saying "if you join the army, you wear the boots".

There are thousands of people who havent got through to phase 1, who would love to.

I agree that coming out on phase 2 is daunting, and your right, the bad guy sees the uniform, not the blue tips. You do have a power of arrest, which you should know by now. Having cuffs/baton, well we could argue that one either way.... for the moment grin and bear it....if you go up the ranks...change it!

You will be amazed how much protection that uniform gives you, in Ireland most people will not put it up to a Garda. Phase 2 is the best part of your training, you get the action without the paperwork!! Experienced members will tell you how seldom they use a baton, I know many who went their whole career without having to.

Enjoy phase 2, I gaurantee by the end of it you'll either decide your in the wrong career or know you've done the right thing.

Best of luck

daithip · 17-02-2009 04:41PM

Those of you heading out on Phase 2 should note, in my opinion, the person you will learn from most will be the member who can negotiate with an aggressor and calm a situation by communication, not the guy wading in baton drawn flaking all round him. Imo not carrying a baton will help you think your way through a situation quicker. Remember the majority of Irish people are decent and no matter what background still respect the Gardai. Those of you who think differently, you're entitled to your opinion, but remember that there are not too many areas in the country where Gardai can't go.

donvito99 · 17-02-2009 04:44PM

In a situation where a Stage 2 Garda and an attested garda are confronted by a violent individual, would the Garda not stand back (ie. not engage in an arrest with the person) realising that he has an unarmed colleague with him/her?

daithip · 17-02-2009 05:23PM

It would all depend on the situation, as Happy as stated. But in the event of an arrest, imo, most members would expect the student to assist. Take it from me and any other member who has tried to cuff a violent offender by themselves, either big or small (that's offender not Garda

), if they don't want to be cuffed, you're not going to cuff them by yourself.

Haz33 · 17-02-2009 05:39PM

Deadwood has suggested this tread has peaked and I wouldn't have a problem with that.
A few people seem to think that this is about complaining the problem away. If everyone goes back and reads the first post they will see that i am comparing the training of those who have asps with those who dont and want to know the answers and reasons for these.
I am more than willing totake everyones opinion on this and would hold the opinions of serving members in the highest regard as they are the ones with experience.
To clarify, I do not for a second think I know everything and am wise enough to admit it. I have gotten more beatings than I care to remember and live to tell the tale. I know from learning the hard way to walk away, sure its all character building stuff. I also know how to keep my mouth shut and learn and observe which is what I am doing and I hope I do walk the beat with you some day cause you couldn't be more wrong about me.
There were a few people concerned about airing on a public forum. The majority of the people in the country know we dont have asps cuffs or powers so its hardly a surprise to people that we want them.
Because of some posters inability to read posts properly and jump to conclusions about people the only "us against them" divide that will happen here is between Gardai and students and that couldn't be further from what I intended to start so I am 100% behind deadwood and finish this tread.
Thanks to all who posted. It's been emotional.

metman · 17-02-2009 06:22PM

Haz33 wrote: »

i am comparing the training of those who have asps with those who dont and want to know the answers and reasons for these.

On a practical note, I imagine a big part of it is down to insurance and litigation avoidance.

As a Garda you are licensed and covered to carry an offensive weapon and use it in the course of your duty (within reason). As a civilian you would be committing an offence by being in possession and could be open to litigation for using it. By equipping civilians (sans police powers) with cuffs or sticks the job could be held to account for encouraging 'untrained civilians' to get physically involved when they are meant to be acting as jafos (just another f-ing observer

).

Haz33 · 17-02-2009 06:32PM

metman wrote: »

On a practical note, I imagine a big part of it is down to insurance and litigation avoidance.

As a Garda you are licensed and covered to carry an offensive weapon and use it in the course of your duty (within reason). As a civilian you would be committing an offence by being in possession and could be open to litigation for using it. By equipping civilians (sans police powers) with cuffs or sticks the job could be held to account for encouraging 'untrained civilians' to get physically involved when they are meant to be acting as jafos (just another f-ing observer ).

Do you see this is the kind of posting I was expecting to get. Common sense, plain and simple language. No backbiting . Here's your answer.
Thanks metman!

metman · 17-02-2009 06:50PM

TheNog · 18-02-2009 12:39AM

Time to say goodnight

Phase 2 students totally unprepared

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