JC Decaux a total disaster for Paris in just 18 Months. What hope for Dublin

Run_to_da_hills · 10-02-2009 11:33PM #1

The JC decaux bicycle rental scheme that has transformed travel in the cityof Paris has run into serious problems just 18 months after its successful launch.

Over half the original fleet of 15,000 specially made bicycles have been nicked, more vandalized, some ending up in eastern Europe others in Africa.

JC Decaux, says it can no longer afford to operate the city-wide network.

Championed by Paris Mayor Bertrand Delanoe, the bikes were part of an attempt to "green" the capital.

Parisians took to them enthusiastically. But the bikes have suffered more than anticipated, company officials have said.

What hope has this bicycle scheme got for Dublin, the old saying goes, "In a Jiffy its in the Liffy", :eek:

Facts from Velib

20,000 bicycles
1,250 stations
Cost 400 euros each to replace
7,800 "disappeared"
11,600 vandalized
1,500 daily repairs
Staff recover 20 abandoned bikes a day
Each bike travels 10,000 km a year
42 million users since launch

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7881079.stm

Chips Lovell · 10-02-2009 11:39PM

Saw that today. Weren't DCC's bikes meant to arrive by now?

Halfrauds · 10-02-2009 11:42PM

we are compeditive, we will have em ALL wrecked in a week:D

who cares, they are a waste of time, big heavy crap bikes, they will put people off cycling. They should put work into the cycle to work scheme and sell people decent bikes that dont break, and are a joy to cycle.

cant wait to see the ****e they put in the city, single speed, brazed steel frames bought from surplus soviet stocks, rancid internal brakes, plastic tyres, no lights, no maintenance and will be totally ****ed in a week by out local scumbag population. a enviromental disaster as we will have to pay to ship the remains of 1000 or so BSO to china for recycling.

Green my arse.

whatever way you look at it no way those bikes in paris cost e400. no way. and DCC are even bigger gob****es and will settle for the bike described above.

sorry for the rant but trading ad space worth millions in the city for **** bikes isnt a good deal at all.

Run_to_da_hills · 10-02-2009 11:47PM

Worse still, they will probably round up the surviving Paris bikes and send them over here.

Sorry Mods, Didnt realise this was posted. Merge or Lock.

petethedrummer · 11-02-2009 12:50AM

Je largely agree with monsieur halfrauds. They managed to get those abominable advertising hoardings up within weeks of the announcement of this scheme. And how long before the bikes actually arrive?? They will all be robbed or wrecked, far quicker than in Paris because we can't be trusted with anything in this country.

Then Jcdeacx will say its unprofitable and can't run their scheme anymore. They will get to keep the adverts and the bikes will never be heard of again.

If events unfold any different to this I will eat my hat. and all your hats.

bealbocht · 11-02-2009 01:10AM

could be a lot of hat eating.

With this cold weather, everyone is wearing one.

Although, I thought more wheelie bins would be (looks around to see if little scumbags listening ..) set on fire.

Think I have only seen one, burnt out.

With the bikes, I'd say its just as much a case of "every student house will have one.. to go with the traffic cone"

But if/when the bikes go (assuming they arrive) would like to see a campagne to get rid of the advertising.

kenmc · 11-02-2009 08:33AM

Halfrauds wrote: »

who cares, they are a waste of time, big heavy crap bikes, they will put people off cycling. They should put work into the cycle to work scheme and sell people decent bikes that dont break, and are a joy to cycle.

Thats not the primary purpose of the bikes; they are mainly aimed at people who commute to the city by metro or train or bus or whatever, they can then get to their final destination by bike once dropped from the public transport, without the hassle of having to own and maintain a bike. It's basically free for the first 30 mins (there's a yearly or once-off registration fee of 20 odd euro or so), and you only start getting charged for longer durations.

Have to wonder though how the missing bikes cannot be traced back to the last recorded renter, since you have to be a registered user to take one in the first place.

blorg · 11-02-2009 09:03AM

I don't think it's fair to call it a "total disaster", the scheme is very popular and heavily used and there are plenty of bikes and plenty of stations. It has contributed to the transformation of Paris traffic, the city is a hell of a lot more pleasant now. Ken has the point of the thing.

Even taking the 18-month numbers above, and speculating:

7,800 bikes gone, replaced @ €400 a go = €3,120,000
11,600 bikes vandalized, repaired @ €50* = €580,000
Total cost over 18 months = €3.7m
Yearly cost = €2.5m
Yearly mileage = 20,000 bikes x 10,000km each = 200 million km
Cost per km = 1.2 cent

Seems not bad value to me

*guess

Run_to_da_hills · 11-02-2009 09:09AM

kenmc wrote: »

Have to wonder though how the missing bikes cannot be traced back to the last recorded renter, since you have to be a registered user to take one in the first place.

You could also put a lot of thefts down to credit card cloning and scamming.

kenmc · 11-02-2009 09:11AM

Is it credit card based? I thought it was a smartcard type thing like the luas card, where you top it up in advance; you'd imagine that you could then report your card stolen/lost and have it disabled. Never having used it though, I'm open to correction.

Caroline_ie · 11-02-2009 09:20AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

You could also put a lot of thefts down to credit card cloning and scamming.

There are much more 'profitable' things to do using skimming and clonning CCs than using them to steal these bikes.

I think the classic stolen CCs fraud by minors would be the most likely to happen.

blorg · 11-02-2009 09:20AM

You use the credit card to subscribe, there are daily and weekly subscriptions available. You need a Chip & PIN card though so would have thought that would reduce the card cloning problem.

To be honest I reckon a lot of this article comes down to JC Decaux's desire to spend less money for their advertising space.

Run_to_da_hills · 11-02-2009 09:23AM

kenmc wrote: »

Is it credit card based? I thought it was a smartcard type thing like the luas card, where you top it up in advance; you'd imagine that you could then report your card stolen/lost and have it disabled. Never having used it though, I'm open to correction.

Not too sure, I think they could be dual, I know the Bordeaux scheme will operate on a transit smart card.

What I cannot understand, they claim that these cost e400 each, when you look at the specs they are a pile of sh*t, IE steel wheels, no gears, They don't even have an alloy cotterless and weigh a ton. The single bar frame is also a weak point I have seen pictures of these broken in half.

I have seen better spec cycles in Halfords for less than the ton. My guess is that these are manufactured in China for buttons. e400 would buy a danm good mountain bike.

blorg · 11-02-2009 09:28AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not too sure, I think they could be dual, I know the Bordeaux scheme will operate on a transit smart card.

What I cannot understand, they claim that these cost e400 each, when you look at the specs they are a pile of sh*t, IE steel wheels, no gears, no alloy cotterless, weigh a ton. I have seen better spec cycles in Halfords for less than the ton.My guess is that these are manufactured in China for buttons. e400 would buy a good mountain bike.

There is also all the electronics that actually run the thing, and plenty of accessories (lock, basket, mudguards, lights etc.) They are actually pretty solid bikes with decent components, Schwalbe Marathon tyres, etc. The aim is to make them as solid and indestructible as possible and suitable for short trips. €400 is certainly not unreasonable.

Run_to_da_hills · 11-02-2009 09:42AM

Can anyone tell me will there be a city limit for these bikes? IE could one rent one in town and cycle it home to Greystones if they miss the nightlink. ?

blorg · 11-02-2009 09:47AM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Can anyone tell me will there be a city limit for these bikes? IE could one rent one in town and cycle it home to Greystones if they miss the nightlink. ?

You could, but presuming the rental rates are similar to Paris it would not be very economical, the amount charged increases exponentially to encourage the intended use of short trips and to keep the bikes in circulation:

time	30 min	1 h	1 h 30	2 h	5 h	10 h	20 h
rate	free	1 &#8364;	3 &#8364;	7 &#8364;	31 &#8364;	71 &#8364;	151 &#8364;

petethedrummer · 11-02-2009 11:08AM

bealbocht wrote: »

could be a lot of hat eating.

Although, I thought more wheelie bins would be (looks around to see if little scumbags listening ..) set on fire.

It would be great if this works out, but I really can't see it. I've seen too many bikes beaten to bits on the streets of Dublin. But just in case, I'm going to bake you all bread hats.

Halfrauds · 11-02-2009 12:29PM

blorg wrote: »

There is also all the electronics that actually run the thing, and plenty of accessories (lock, basket, mudguards, lights etc.) They are actually pretty solid bikes with decent components, Schwalbe Marathon tyres, etc. The aim is to make them as solid and indestructible as possible and suitable for short trips. €400 is certainly not unreasonable.

no way in hell does it cost e400 to manufacture a heap of gick like that.:o, if it does they are bieng ripped.

Those bikes cost e100 max to produce.

the company is pulling a fast one as far as i can see, they want the ad space, but dont wanna pay, sure they are trying to worm out of a contract because its costing too much

, well they can take their ****ty ad boards with them,:mad:, infact maybe if the scum had intelligence they would destroy the ads and keep the bikes:rolleyes:.

schwable marathons aint that expensive, e400 these days will get you a deore groupset, hydraulic brakes, sealed bearings, butted aluminium and a half decent suspention fork........infinatley better than the crap they are offering.

The price to use them BTW:eek::eek:, so we are giving up public space, and pretty much paying for the pleasure, who do we have negotiating those deals???.....probably a ex banker.

Caroline_ie · 11-02-2009 01:15PM

Hey ,,, I am 100% sur ethese bikes won't last however ... Unless we try, we'll never know how crap it's going to be working. Plus think of the job opportunities there, they will need people to look after these bikes and that will create jobs, which we need at the moment.

I had no idea Bordeaux was going to have the velib bikes

In Bordeaux a good part of the city centre has been car free for a few years now. I have cycled there last summer with my road bike, and it was lovely

( not biased ...but my hometown is great )

blorg · 11-02-2009 01:38PM

Halfrauds wrote: »

schwable marathons aint that expensive, e400 these days will get you a deore groupset, hydraulic brakes, sealed bearings, butted aluminium and a half decent suspention fork.....

These bikes are for cycling around the city you know, not being taken out the trails. Suspension fork FFS!

Halfrauds · 13-02-2009 12:31AM

blorg wrote: »

These bikes are for cycling around the city you know, not being taken out the trails. Suspension fork FFS!

i was saying what you COULD get for e400 at RETAIL price:)

Take the fork off then ,add a rigid chromo one and upgrade the wheels with the saving:P

I was just pointing out that at e400 cost price its alota ****, they are clearly just bull****ting the price so they dont have to pay as much:eek:

Halfrauds · 13-02-2009 12:32AM

blorg wrote: »

These bikes are for cycling around the city you know, not being taken out the trails. Suspension fork FFS!

or stick a set of corsas or sids at the front:p

Diarmuid · 13-02-2009 06:55AM

Halfrauds wrote: »

no way in hell does it cost e400 to manufacture a heap of gick like that.:o, if it does they are bieng ripped.

Those bikes cost e100 max to produce.
.

I don't agree, these bikes are built to last (I've ridden them). The crap you pick up for €100 wouldn't last a fraction of the distances these put in. 10,000 km on average!

tpedoussaut · 13-02-2009 11:26AM

They say 15k bikes disappeared, and 42M trips, that's one stolen bike for 3000 trips. Take average commuter, 400 trips a year, that means he get his bike stolen every 7.5 years, not too bad I would say.

Caroline_ie · 13-02-2009 11:35AM

If it wasn't viable, they wouldn't do it. They've insurance, they buy bike in bulk from the factories and ... they probably don't pay VAT.

Halfrauds · 13-02-2009 11:56AM

Diarmuid wrote: »

I don't agree, these bikes are built to last (I've ridden them). The crap you pick up for €100 wouldn't last a fraction of the distances these put in. 10,000 km on average!

I'd have to disagree with all those points.... I'm talking about bikes that have a COST Price of e400. Thats bikes that will RETAIL at the e600 mark. Are you telling me youd spend e600 on those bikes and be happy???!

Your right about e100 bikes, but thats things ain't far off.

They key to a bike lasting big mileage and heavy use is MAINTENANCE.

Dublin bikes will not get 10k a year, no way. Thats about 30kms a day, the longest trip in Dublin would be 2kms. Either way the council is being ripped and these bikes are going to renforce the publics view that all bikes are heavy and crap. They will turn people off cycling IMO.

I've seen good bikes for e200 cost that would do a much better job, and if buying e400 in bulk and spares then you could negotiate a great deal.

This deal is half arsed tbh.

Diarmuid · 13-02-2009 12:03PM

Halfrauds wrote: »

Are you telling me youd spend e600 on those bikes and be happy???!

If I was buying 20,000 bikes I know I would do my homework , buy a bike that would suit my requirements and would be in a position to negotiate a good price. If you think these guys wandered in off the street asked for a 20k bikes and handed over the money without doing some research you're naive.

HashSlinging · 13-02-2009 12:07PM

42 million users since launch, and they are saying its a disaster, 7500 missing bikes.. thats nothing.. the prices that people are paying should pay for the missing bikes 10 fold...

Halfrauds · 13-02-2009 12:21PM

Diarmuid wrote: »

If I was buying 20,000 bikes I know I would do my homework , buy a bike that would suit my requirements and would be in a position to negotiate a good price. If you think these guys wandered in off the street asked for a 20k bikes and handed over the money without doing some research you're naive.

There ain't gunna be 20,000 bikes in Dublin.

You don't understand what I'm trying to get across.

This is a joint venture between DCC ( with somthing the ad company wants but doesnt wanna pay what its worth) and the jc decaux.

The ad company tells us these bikes cost e400 so DCC in their clueless aprosch to everything bike related, thinks they have negotiated a good deal. What they done understand is the ad company pulled a fast one and now has a load of ad space which is making them a fortune. A fortune taken from DCC and the tax payer.

Yes those bikes will do the job, but foe e400 I'd want alot more tbh.

Clearly like mr. Lenihan DCC didnt do their homework.

I think youd be the naieve one to believe a corporate company was more concerned about the bike being appropriate than the bottom line.

Halfrauds · 13-02-2009 12:25PM

HashSlinging wrote: »

42 million users since launch, and they are saying its a disaster, 7500 missing bikes.. thats nothing.. the prices that people are paying should pay for the missing bikes 10 fold...

its just bollix, the ad company job is to make as much profit as possible by whatever means. They could see the chance to screw over taxpayers and took it. Wait till you see they will get aload of ad space ,making them a fortune and won't pay for it.

Halfrauds · 13-02-2009 12:32PM

Diarmuid wrote: »

If I was buying 20,000 bikes I know I would do my homework , buy a bike that would suit my requirements and would be in a position to negotiate a good price. If you think these guys wandered in off the street asked for a 20k bikes and handed over the money without doing some research you're naive.

so youd be happy to spend e600 on one of them?? Bike shops must love you!!

JC Decaux a total disaster for Paris in just 18 Months. What hope for Dublin

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