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What do you have to do to get convicted of murder these days?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭conlonbmw


    Pub07 wrote: »



    As I said, it was gone beyond speculation when he beat the crap out of him. Go ask someone in the guards who has experience dealing with criminals of Wards calibre, someone living in the real world, what they think he wouldve done if Nally hadn't shot him.

    I can answer this in theory only.

    He would have come back and robbed him, tied him up and educated one of his 14 kids on how to do things properly.

    As I said in an earlier post Nallys mistake was picking him up and throwing him over the wall.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭conlonbmw


    cornbb wrote: »



    Ward should have been harshly punished for what he did but not by getting shot dead in the back. I can see why people say "he got what he was coming to him" but that doesn't mean it was fair or just. No-one came out a winner in this case, whereas if the law had dealt with Ward and put him behind bars at least we could say that justice was done.

    Ward has 4 benchwarrants against him.

    Even if he was charged with burglary he would have been free for a year till it came to trial, then he would have got about 1 month max.

    The Law is a fuc*ing joke in this country


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Jeapy


    conlonbmw wrote: »
    As I said in an earlier post Nallys mistake was picking him up and throwing him over the wall.

    Can you find a reference for this? It's the first I've heard about a wall in the incident. Looking at reports and can't see it anywhere.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭conlonbmw


    Jeapy wrote: »
    Can you find a reference for this? It's the first I've heard about a wall in the incident. Looking at reports and can't see it anywhere.

    On the day Mr Ward came into his farmhouse Mr Nally got the gun from the shed and as he confronted him at the back door, he claims it went off accidentally. He said he did not aim at Mr Ward and his hand was shivering as the trigger went off.
    The defendant said Mr Ward took the gun off him and tried to hit him with it but he got it back. And in an ensuing scuffle he hit Mr Ward at least ten blows with a stick.
    He then reloaded the gun and followed Mr Ward down the road and fired a second shot at him. Mr Nally said he meant to frighten the Traveller and the shot accidentally hit him. He then pulled John Ward's body over a ditch and into a field.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭conlonbmw


    Direct quote from Nally



    Although Mr Nally said the experience has left him nervous and broken, he said he has received worldwide messages of support from people who understood his predicament.



    "I got cards from every part of the world and I have met people since I have come out who have supported me. It was unreal like what has happened, they couldn't understand why I was jailed for protecting my property and for protecting my home."


    But, he says, although he feels he had no choice but to defend himself, he regrets killing Mr Ward.


    "Looking back on it, I suppose I wouldn't have done what I did, but, then again, I was put to what I did at the time. When a man attacks you, you have to protect yourself, you have no choice. And I was attacked. The man had every intention of fighting it out," he said in an interview with Damien O'Reilly on RTE radio's Farm Week.


    "You have to [realise that] there were four bench warrants out for his arrest and the authorities should have done their job a bit better, and you have to have sympathy for the man who lost his life as well. You have to think that what you did was wrong under all circumstances but, at the same time, he went overboard in what he was doing.


    "He attacked me in my own home, at my own back door. I didn't go looking for him to fight with me; he came to me to fight. So I had no choice. I had to do what I did. I couldn't back away from it, if I did, I was gone, and there was no more about me."


    - NIAMH HORAN


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭conlonbmw


    The court heard on Monday about John ‘Frog’ Ward’s previous convictions, which numbered 80 and were spread over 38 court appearances. All court appearances, bar two, were in district courts. Mr Ward served a number of prison sentences.

    At the time of his death he was awaiting trial arising out of an incident at Carrowbrowne Halting Site on April 15, 2004 when he was alleged to have produced a slash hook to gardaí.

    The court also heard how there were four bench warrants issued for the arrest of Mr Ward that were not executed at the time of his death. It was explained by gardaí that the warrants were not executed because Mr Ward was receiving psychiatric treatment at the time.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    Dudess wrote: »
    Is it moreso because they can afford the best legal representation possible rather than a pro wealthy and powerful status quo?

    The top criminal law solicitors and barristers are available on legal aid. If they weren't they wouldn't be able to make a living. There could even be a situation where someone on legal aid gets better representation than someone who is not rich enough to afford the best legal representatives, but equally not poor enough to qualify for legal aid.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,566 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    conlonbmw wrote: »
    Ward has 4 benchwarrants against him.

    Even if he was charged with burglary he would have been free for a year till it came to trial, then he would have got about 1 month max.

    Not in Mayo, maybe 6 months assuming he doesn't plead guilty.
    conlonbmw wrote: »
    The Law is a fuc*ing joke in this country

    Go on then, devise a better system for the same amount of money.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 230 ✭✭JohnGalt


    I was nearly in hot water recently. I was having a house party, and two guys who I didn't know turned up, heavily inebriated. I didn't want to spend my evening watching them, so I confronted them at the door. They got pretty boisterous, so I went back inside, grabbed a screw driver and reemerged brandishing it, informing them that if they didn't promptly remove themselves from my property I would stab them. They refused, so I stabbed one of them in the chest. He recoiled and they both stepped back. He then unzipped his shirt and dropped a bag of cans on the ground, one of which was spurting beer from a neat screwdriver shaped hole. They both ran. I regretted it subsequently as I knew that I had let my anger get the better of me and that I could have been locked up had it gone only slightly differently.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 159 ✭✭ilovecars


    JohnGalt wrote: »
    I was nearly in hot water recently. I was having a house party, and two guys who I didn't know turned up, heavily inebriated. I didn't want to spend my evening watching them, so I confronted them at the door. They got pretty boisterous, so I went back inside, grabbed a screw driver and reemerged brandishing it, informing them that if they didn't promptly remove themselves from my property I would stab them. They refused, so I stabbed one of them in the chest. He recoiled and they both stepped back. He then unzipped his shirt and dropped a bag of cans on the ground, one of which was spurting beer from a neat screwdriver shaped hole. They both ran. I regretted it subsequently as I knew that I had let my anger get the better of me and that I could have been locked up had it gone only slightly differently.
    oooooooooooooh.. if you ever kill someone and claim self defence you'll regret posting that..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Jeapy


    conlonbmw wrote: »
    He then pulled John Ward's body over a ditch and into a field.

    Never knew about that detail. Thanks.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 562 ✭✭✭utick


    conlonbmw wrote: »
    Brilliant:D

    , when he went to rob Nally for the 6th time, the real figure is much higher, .

    ok ward robbed nally 6 times that we know about, justice system seems to be non existent from what i see at some point if the justice system doesnt stand up for victims, the victims have to stand up for themselves i feel.


    anyway the real reason i feel the justice system rarely puts repeat offenders away for a long time is because its too profitable keeping them out on the streets


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Tom Trojan


    Murder your brain watching too many CSI soaps. Or is that suicide?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭conlonbmw


    utick wrote: »
    anyway the real reason i feel the justice system rarely puts repeat offenders away for a long time is because its too profitable keeping them out on the streets

    Absolutely, where would the law firms who charge more than €1 million in legal aid fees p.a. be.

    What would the judges get up too. About 60-70% of all district court cases in Dublin are a waste of time, each not guilty please takes up to 1 year and 4 separate court dates.

    Gardai on 3 hours guaranteed overtime for appearing in court. If you wonder why you see F*ckall garda on the street between 10am and 1pm it's because they are sitting on their arses in court wasting time and money.

    Not in Mayo, maybe 6 months assuming he doesn't plead guilty.

    You would only serve a month for a small burglary max, assuming that you just didn't get bound to the peace, and fined.

    Go on then, devise a better system for the same amount of money.

    There are many countries that have excellent legal systems.

    Perhaps our government could have used "consultants" to pick out the most effecient countries, and sent delegation's their instead of trousering brown envelopes at our nations developmental expense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    CiaranC wrote: »
    Murder is planned and premeditated.

    Unless you are a woman


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 76 ✭✭paul larry


    really pisses me off!!!!!!!!! the fact he's the son of a garda has nothin to do with it. if he's guilty he's guilty. after a gangland murder, do ya hear the news "john, 32, the son of a dole claimant, last night murdered mick, 25, the son of an unemployed drug user in finglas." so who really cares if someone is the son of a guard?!:mad:


  • Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    he got done for manslaughter, that's what it was.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    he got done for manslaughter, that's what it was.

    What about the Chip Shop Owner who got shotgunned. They got the shooter a 15 yo girl (from memory) and loads of witnesses.

    No conviction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    One of my nephews knew the garda's son, story goes that the now deceased member of the travelling community punched the lads lights out and when the lad came around he pulled out a swiss army knife and stabbed him once, the fella died because it was during a fair and it took the ambulance a crazy amount of time to get to him.


  • Posts: 18,046 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    ya my friend knows him nd apparently he went into brandons afterwards nd threw the knife over a wall out back?

    CDfm, i don't know what case you've mentioned.. i only know details of the ennis case


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    Heres another case to add to this debate :eek:

    Latvian who killed compatriot walks free from court

    A 36 year-old Latvian fisherman who killed a fellow countryman in a fight and threw his body over the side of a fishing trawler into Howth Harbour has walked free from the Central Criminal Court after being sentenced to time already served.

    Mr Justice Paul Carney said that the public interest would not be served by further imprisoning Sergejs Lavrinovics, who choked 35 year-old Igors Bondarenko to death.

    Mr Justice Carney said the deceased had criminal convictions of a "highly unsavoury character" and was an extortionist, according to gardaí.

    Lavrinovics threw his victim's body overboard with the help of two co-accused, Andrijans Ubelis (aged 32) and Freddy Grenzman (aged 36). Grenzman was also sentenced to time already served on remand. Ubelis, who had not spent any time in custody, was given a 12-month suspended sentence.

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/mhsnsnkfsngb/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    ya my friend knows him nd apparently he went into brandons afterwards nd threw the knife over a wall out back?

    CDfm, i don't know what case you've mentioned.. i only know details of the ennis case

    Anna Maria Sacco was the case.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    "Mr Bondarenko was jailed in July 1990 for the rape of an underage female and for charges of theft and hooliganism. He was released in 1994 but returned to prison the next year to serve 11 years for robbery.

    The victim then came to Ireland"


    yay for our EU membership... give me your poor huddled rapist scumbags


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Bambi wrote: »
    yay for our EU membership... give me your poor huddled rapist scumbags

    For every rapist scumbag that comes over we get thousands of productive members of society. And we've been exporting plenty of our own scumbags to england and spain.

    But yeah, its very wrong that this particular scumbag is walking the streets again.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,470 ✭✭✭DonJose


    Bambi wrote: »
    "Mr Bondarenko was jailed in July 1990 for the rape of an underage female and for charges of theft and hooliganism. He was released in 1994 but returned to prison the next year to serve 11 years for robbery.

    The victim then came to Ireland"

    yay for our EU membership... give me your poor huddled rapist scumbags
    cornbb wrote: »
    For every rapist scumbag that comes over we get thousands of productive members of society. And we've been exporting plenty of our own scumbags to england and spain.

    But yeah, its very wrong that this particular scumbag is walking the streets again.

    What the FUKK, he is walking the streets again :eek::eek::eek:

    To think I used to laugh at the forum below :eek:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1079


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,649 ✭✭✭✭CDfm


    But these crimes were not in Ireland - the Sacco case was -and the verdict was perplexing.

    The guy got shotgunned -the shooter confessed saying the wife persuded he to do it. One of a string of people she asked.

    No one was convicted of anything.:confused:


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