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Lenihan May Be Gone By Week End - Now What?

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  • 12-02-2009 12:45am
    #1
    Zynks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭


    Mr. Lenihan may be a good politician, but he wouldn't have survived a full week running any serious financial institution.

    Now there is a strong chance he will be gone very soon. Problem is that another financially challenged TD has to take his place. Not good news for us really because we would be getting rid of a bad fit and putting another in place until he/she screws up at a cost of several more billion yo-yos. That is, of course, assuming any of them is willing to commit political harakiri for the good of FF, ahem, the country.

    Can anyone confirm if there is any legislation that allows a non TD to take the role? If not, it may be time to hit the roads and demand an emergency change in the legislation, this is an national emergency after all....


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    #2
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Zynks wrote: »
    Mr. Lenihan may be a good politician, but he wouldn't have survived a full week running any serious financial institution.
    Thankfully, the only financial situation he ran, the good old Irish economy, turned out to be one big joke...


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    #3
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,559 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Now there is a strong chance he will be gone very soon

    Why is this considered likely? Theres no general election coming up is there?


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    #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,348 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Zynks wrote: »
    Can anyone confirm if there is any legislation that allows a non TD to take the role?
    While I think up to three cabinet members can be non-TDs, the Taoiseach (and by implication Tainiste) and MoF must be TDs.


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    #5
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    Zynks wrote: »
    Mr. Lenihan may be a good politician...

    Herein lies the problem. Mr. Lenihan is a well qualified Senior Council. His whole working life has revolved around denying and refuting liability and covering up with agreed settlement payments, anything that might look unsavory if it gets into the High Court or the Supreme Court.

    I can't think of a man more unqualified to deal with our economic disaster than a man who has operated at one profession below the trade of prostitution when it comes to honour, integrity and value for money...


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    #6
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    Zynks wrote: »
    Now there is a strong chance he will be gone very soon.

    And this is based on? If you're going to say to something like this on this forum state whether it's just your unsubstantiated belief or if there's something to back up the assertion.


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    #7
    marcsignal
    Registered Users Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    rats, titanic, and the greens are lining up the deckchairs..........


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    #8
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    marcsignal wrote: »
    rats, titanic, and the greens are lining up the deckchairs..........

    I think the Titanic was sinking at a slower a rate than our economy and luckily found herself in milder waters...

    EDIT: Oh, and at least the Titanic had deckchairs!


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    #9
    Tristram
    Registered Users Posts: 3,589 ✭✭✭Tristram


    Where is he going? When? How? Please refrain from posting bolox if you're not gonna back it up.


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    #10
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Herein lies the problem. Mr. Lenihan is a well qualified Senior Council. His whole working life has revolved around denying and refuting liability and covering up with agreed settlement payments, anything that might look unsavory if it gets into the High Court or the Supreme Court.

    I can't think of a man more unqualified to deal with our economic disaster than a man who has operated at one profession below the trade of prostitution when it comes to honour, integrity and value for money...

    Jaysus, lose the chip in your shoulder about lawyers.

    Senior Counsel for the record.

    Anyway, claiming Lenihan is some sneaky divvil trying to cheat us all out of our hard-earned money is moronic. I don't like Fianna Fáil, but most of their current problems are due to ineptitude, not malice.

    I'd have serious complaints with an expert in the legal field being taken from the Ministry of Justice and given Finance. It'd make far more sense for him still to be the Minister for Justice.


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    #11
    Darragh29
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,097 ✭✭✭Darragh29


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    Jaysus, lose the chip in your shoulder about lawyers.

    Senior Counsel for the record.

    Anyway, claiming Lenihan is some sneaky divvil trying to cheat us all out of our hard-earned money is moronic. I don't like Fianna Fáil, but most of their current problems are due to ineptitude, not malice.

    I'd have serious complaints with an expert in the legal field being taken from the Ministry of Justice and given Finance. It'd make far more sense for him still to be the Minister for Justice.

    Grand, Counsel. no matter how you spell the word, the last person who should be asked to solve any problem is a Barrister or a Solicitor, these professions spend their whole working lives sweeping problems under the carpet and denying that black is black and white is white. We are lamped with not one useless legal c*nt but two, as Cowen is a Solicitor....


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    #12
    sceptre
    Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    Victor wrote: »
    While I think up to three cabinet members can be non-TDs, the Taoiseach (and by implication Tainiste) and MoF must be TDs.
    AFAIR you're right, part of the reason being that the Seanad can't initiate money bills, which are obviously squarely DoF matters. It's been relatively rare to have any senior ministries occupied by a senator - though I assume there were others, James Dooge is the only one I remember (Foreign affairs for a few months in 1981).

    All ministers have to be either TDs or senators. There's no prohibition on appointing someone to the Seanad just to appoint them as a minister though (that's how Dooge got the job), though not to Taoiseach, Tanaiste or MoF, assuming we both remember the rule correctly.


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    #13
    monkfish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11 ✭monkfish


    OP: Now there is a strong chance he will be gone very soon.

    After yesterday's revelations, I completely agree with the OP. There is no way to spin this lack of oversight in an emergency. 7 bn. Yet on the radio this morning, he was waffling about how banks move money around all the time. 7bn. If the opposition has any energy left, he is now a sitting duck.


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    #14
    Sleipnir
    Registered Users Posts: 5,514 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    Don't think he will be gone. If CJ Haughey got away with all the stuff he did, and Bertie Ahern the same with all his shenannigans, this "not telling the boss" something is peanuts.


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    #15
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,978 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    "it might not have jumped off the page at him"


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    #16
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Zynks wrote: »
    Mr. Lenihan ... Now there is a strong chance he will be gone very soon.
    Not a chance, he's part of the ruling dynasty passed on from father to son. He'll still be here at the next election and he will be voted back in by the faithful regardless of how he performs now. It's Ireland get real, we have a hidden monarchy.


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    #17
    Zynks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Zynks


    nesf wrote: »
    And this is based on? If you're going to say to something like this on this forum state whether it's just your unsubstantiated belief or if there's something to back up the assertion.

    There was a €7 billion blunder uncovered on Tuesday and the opposition leaders have called for his resignation. If you saw the Lenihan's body language on RTE News last night after speaking, you may have noticed he looked very shaken. I think I have enough arguments to suggest he MAY be gone soon.

    The country is already in turmoil for €2 billion "savings", what will €7 billion do?

    Not identifying addressing this massive issue is either severe incompetence or he plainly mislead the Dail and the public. Wait until the reality sinks in.

    It is my opinion that he might and should go soon. There certainly is pressure in that direction:

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/pressure-on-minister--to-resign-over-report-blunder-1636908.html

    Note the inclusion of the word "may" in the title of the thread. Having said that, the main subject I wanted to discuss was that we are stuck to a pool of TDs from where the cabinet is defined, and this is not in the country's interest in my view.


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    #18
    voxpop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,800 ✭✭✭voxpop


    Zynks wrote: »
    Having said that, the main subject I wanted to discuss was that we are stuck to a pool of TDs from where the cabinet is defined, and this is not in the country's interest in my view.


    Are you saying that you'd prefer an unelected person to be minister of finance ?


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    #19
    Zynks
    Registered Users Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭Zynks


    voxpop wrote: »
    Are you saying that you'd prefer an unelected person to be minister of finance ?

    I am saying I would like a qualified person appointed...by the Taoiseach (for which position I would like to vote directly incidentally).

    Nobody in the Dail was elected for their financial knowledge. Why should we then be restricted to one of them to run the DoF?

    There is a better chance of a good financial head being picked in the "open market" than of a TD proving to be a good MoF.


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    #20
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    voxpop wrote: »
    Are you saying that you'd prefer an unelected person to be minister of finance ?

    In my opinion you could pick the the average schoolchild off the streets and put them in Brian Lenihan's Office.

    - I'm sure they could fail to read reports that they themselves had requested in much the same moronic, imbecilic manner. Perhaps they could do an even better job of not reading them?

    - I bet they would be too busy on their Xbox to even think of taking medical cards off senior Citizens who had paid their taxes for 60+ years.

    I could go on......


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    #21
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    I think I have enough arguments to suggest he MAY be gone soon.

    With the emerging news of Minister Lenihan`s lack of interest in the PWC reports specifics we can safely concur with the OP`s original assertion.

    As has been pointed out elsewhere Brian Lenihan is a qualified Barrister and as such would be very much au-fait with the structure and form of such reports and their inate ability to conceal bombshells deep in addendum or indicies etc.

    However he`s not alone in this disability as it has been an ongoing developing trait in Irish Parliamentarians since we decided to employ "Consultants" to perform the work previously done by shrewd Political brains themselves..

    One need look no further than Ms Harney,Mr Dempsey,Mr O`Dea and Ms Hanifin for yet more examples of Govermental over reliance on the "What my experts tell me" form of Governance.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #22
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    it amazing conincidence that something happened that could easily have been at the behest of anglo led cabal occured.


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    #23
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    Darragh29 wrote: »
    Grand, Counsel. no matter how you spell the word, the last person who should be asked to solve any problem is a Barrister or a Solicitor, these professions spend their whole working lives sweeping problems under the carpet and denying that black is black and white is white. We are lamped with not one useless legal c*nt but two, as Cowen is a Solicitor....

    Again your post is nothing more than an attack on the legal profession. As I said, lose the chip in your shoulder.

    If you're so convinced lawyers are evil, what profession would you like to see 'cleaning up'?


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    #24
    rugbyman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,783 ✭✭✭rugbyman


    anonymous_joe wrote: »
    Again your post is nothing more than an attack on the legal profession. As I said, lose the chip in your shoulder.

    If you're so convinced lawyers are evil, what profession would you like to see 'cleaning up'?

    Joe, in EVERY legal case in the world, there is a losing side, therefore ,in Ireland, at least one losing solicitor and perhaps a Barrister. This implies that 50 % of the lawyers who take a case get it wrong. It is not unreasonable for darragh to suggest the legal agents,who can fight either side of any case, are glib, sleight of tongue types(my words). i see no reason to suggest he has a `chip``.

    re Brian Lenihan

    I do not vote FF
    I quite like Brian Lenihan
    I think he is quite capable.
    The gaffe over the 7 bn however, hard to overlook. While Brian has to shoulder the blame.some of his advisors need demotion.


    I would not like to see him resign
    regards,Rugbyman


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    #25
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,010 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Assuming that neither Cowen, Lenihan, or anyone else in the government, know feck all about economics, I'd like to know who the "economists" are that are calling the shots. Any ideas?


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    #26
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    Who in FF would manage this better than Brian Lenihan?

    If he's being thrown out, we need a replacment. I don't think there is one in FF or (hahaha) the greens.


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    #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Most politicians when you look at their background would be in way over their head doing this job.
    By it's very nature they have to rely heavily on their senior civil servants who lets be honest,while they may have a fair grasp of the legilslature and tools that are used in the dept of Finance...they are too removed from the real world of business to be able to do the thing half right either.


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    #28
    timbel
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭timbel


    thebman wrote: »
    Who in FF would manage this better than Brian Lenihan?

    If he's being thrown out, we need a replacment. I don't think there is one in FF or (hahaha) the greens.

    Ok, I went through the FFers in Dail and looked at their profiles.
    There are 5 former accountants that are now FF TDs:

    Sean Ardagh
    Michael Ahern
    Brian Keneally
    Niall Collins
    Michael McGrath

    None of these TDs are in the cabinet (junior or senior).

    Surely someone who has experience in accountancy/financial control would be a more suitable in the Dept of Finance than say Minister of State Martin Mansergh (Former Special Adviser to the Taoiseach (Charles Haughey)!).


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    #29
    old boy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,658 ✭✭✭old boy


    hagar is correct, nothing changes, he will not resign, plus the opposition do not have the know how to force his or any others resignation, not alone do i detest f.f i actually despise them, but to me the opposition could have a carboard cut out for a leader and they would fare out no worse or no better than they are at the moment, this country is crying out for a leader, what have we, only grey clueless bemonths, i am in the autumn of my life and i have given up the hope that i will see this country with a leader, are all the years of people going to collage end in waste, young people put your knowlage to productive use, do not waste the oppertunitys that i and my equals worked and suffered to put in place go to waste, (and were unadvailable to us), elect a leader, please forgive my rant.


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    #30
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    rugbyman wrote: »
    Joe, in EVERY legal case in the world, there is a losing side, therefore ,in Ireland, at least one losing solicitor and perhaps a Barrister. This implies that 50 % of the lawyers who take a case get it wrong. It is not unreasonable for darragh to suggest the legal agents,who can fight either side of any case, are glib, sleight of tongue types(my words). i see no reason to suggest he has a `chip``.

    re Brian Lenihan

    I do not vote FF
    I quite like Brian Lenihan
    I think he is quite capable.
    The gaffe over the 7 bn however, hard to overlook. While Brian has to shoulder the blame.some of his advisors need demotion.


    I would not like to see him resign
    regards,Rugbyman

    Is it not the case that his department saw the significance of the event and reported to the Financial Regulator? It is unbelievable that Lenihan could not have known about this. Personally I think it is just another instalment in the Anglo Irish cover up.


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    #31
    anonymous_joe
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭anonymous_joe


    rugbyman wrote: »
    Joe, in EVERY legal case in the world, there is a losing side, therefore ,in Ireland, at least one losing solicitor and perhaps a Barrister. This implies that 50 % of the lawyers who take a case get it wrong. It is not unreasonable for darragh to suggest the legal agents,who can fight either side of any case, are glib, sleight of tongue types(my words). i see no reason to suggest he has a `chip``.

    re Brian Lenihan

    I do not vote FF
    I quite like Brian Lenihan
    I think he is quite capable.
    The gaffe over the 7 bn however, hard to overlook. While Brian has to shoulder the blame.some of his advisors need demotion.


    I would not like to see him resign
    regards,Rugbyman

    Oh I know what you mean about 50% being wrong, but the guy I was quoting seems to dislike Lenihan because of his legal background and has a hangup over that. From another perspective, it's lawyers who make sure the law is obeyed, plenty of lawyers are good people, Barack Husein Jesus Obama's a lawyer after all. I see no point in denigrating an entire profession as evil monsters.

    The obvious complaint I have is someone being in charge of a field they lack expertise in.


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