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Travel 90 bus tickets

  • 12-02-2009 01:31AM
    #1
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭


    What's the deal with the Travel 90 tickets ? I've bought them in town and at the airport - one ticket valid for 90mins (last journey must be validated with the ticket within the 90mins of the first validation). My local shop wants to charge me €18 for a "10journey Travel 90" ticket.

    I've asked and asked and the manager says that that's all Dublin bus do - she had a Dublin Bus rep in and he told her they're the only travel 90 tickets they're selling.

    Is anyone else confused ?I'm in a suburb near Tallaght/M50. Are Dublin Bus trying to only sel these Travel 90 tickets in town/airport and sell the more expensive ones in the cornershop?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    anotherlostie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭anotherlostie


    Your shop is correct. The ticket is valid for 10 journeys at a cost of €1.80 per use. It used to be strip off tickets but now is a single ticket that you present to the validator on each use.

    They are great value once you are paying more than €1.80 for a single journey. My fare is €2.00, the bus is fast and regular, and I have gotten into town, picked something up and got the return bus all for the €1.80. I also know someone who gets into town from where I live and then gets a second bus out to UCD.


  • #3
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    The Travel90 was never sold individually,or if it was then the ticket agent was playing hookey.
    The original mag-stripe card was sold in a book of ten,however the smart card does it all with a single chip.

    It is one of the hidden gems of the Bus Atha Cliath network.

    Take for example somebody living in Newtownmountkennedy and working in the City Centre.
    They can make that return journey using 2 T90 validations for €3.60 when the cash fare is 3.50 EACH WAY....A no-brainer one would imagine......maybe....yet it amazes me how many continue to pay €2.50 and €3.50 Cash every day... :)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #4
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Cheers guys. The newsagent in the airport opposite the Dublin Bus info desk sells single Travel 90 tickets. going ot the airport tomorrow so I have to wing it on a 2easy (they only had the 2X €1.50 eeekk....)


  • #5
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    They may be clearing out the stock of old tickets.

    The Travel 90 ticket is now a smartcard which holds 10 individual journeys on it.


  • #6
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    They can make that return journey using 2 T90 validations for €3.60 when the cash fare is 3.50 EACH WAY....A no-brainer one would imagine......maybe....yet it amazes me how many continue to pay €2.50 and €3.50 Cash every day... :)

    I'd totally agree. The thing is, DB could do a better job of advertising it. :)


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  • #7
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Paulm17781,You have it in a Nutshell !

    Minister Dempsey has been on a Grande Tour of Irish Media lately attempting to spin "his" Deloitte report on Dublin Bus.

    Notwithstanding the fact that Deloitte could not find any evidence of seriously deficient Dublin Bus management practices of the type alluded to by the Minister,the reports authors did however make some rather interesting comments on the MINISTERS policies in relation to the Fare collection règeime which Dublin Bus is REQUIRED to operate.

    Deloitte recommends either the full REGULATION of ALL fares OR the full DEREGULATION of ALL Fares to replace the current Civil Service controlled cash-fare règieme.
    I note that Mr Dempsey has not referred in any of his reported statements to the Deloitte recommendation re HIS Departments shortcomings in this BASIC issue of Public Transport operation.

    In addition I am aware of Dublin Bus middle management attending local community meetings and wringing their hands about maintaining the level of Expresso departures with such low numbers....this attitude falls outside what I would describe as "management" as it totally fails to admit to the almost non-existent ongoing promotion of what by any standards is a VERY marketable Public Transport OPTION for long-distance commuters.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #8
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    I didn't know that they attacked the fare system so much in that report.

    Typical Dempsey, it's not broken so whinge and make no effort to improve it. He did that in telecoms and now he'll do it to transport.


  • #9
    Heart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 188 ✭✭Heart


    The Travel90 was never sold individually,or if it was then the ticket agent was playing hookey.

    The ticket machines in Dublin Airport sell one Travel 90 ticket for €2.20, this is the only place you can buy 1 single T90 ticket and I presume it was in an effort to try and get less people paying cash on board the bus.

    H


  • #10
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The Travel90 was never sold individually,or if it was then the ticket agent was playing hookey.
    The original mag-stripe card was sold in a book of ten,however the smart card does it all with a single chip.

    I'm fairly sure I got them as individual tickets in 95/96 back when you could get ten journey tickets


  • #11
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Just hijacking this thread for a moment - I regularly take the bus, but my fare is E1.60. From looking at the Dublin Bus website, I can't find any monthly ticket or smart card that would suit my usage (5 x 2 trips daily).

    I saw an advertisement on Dublin Bus for some monthly tickets, whose name I can't remember, but I can't find them on the Dublin Bus website.

    Does anyone know if there is a better option than paying E1.60 in cash each trip?


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  • #12
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,353 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Hmm, they used to sell 2easy tickets for €3 each that would suit you. But it seems they're no longer available. You could try a few shops to see if they still sell them...


  • #13
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,150 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Stark wrote: »
    Hmm, they used to sell 2easy tickets for €3 each that would suit you. But it seems they're no longer available. You could try a few shops to see if they still sell them...

    spar on parliment street (sp) still had them last friday, i will be checking again tomorrow.
    i bought 20 of them as they were still selling their old stock!
    4 weeks worth for me, so saved a few bob and dont have to worry about exact fare at all!


  • #14
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    I don't like the new Travel 90 at all, as a non-regular bus user. With the old ones you could give them to multiple people - ideal if we had houseguests and wanted to get the bus into town. Now it's all on one card which I'm likely to lose before I've made 10 90 minute journeys.

    There was a time when I used the bus all the time but they were just too unreliable and I had to switch to the car.


  • #15
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    dudara wrote: »
    Just hijacking this thread for a moment - I regularly take the bus, but my fare is E1.60. From looking at the Dublin Bus website, I can't find any monthly ticket or smart card that would suit my usage (5 x 2 trips daily).

    I saw an advertisement on Dublin Bus for some monthly tickets, whose name I can't remember, but I can't find them on the Dublin Bus website.

    Does anyone know if there is a better option than paying E1.60 in cash each trip?
    Stark wrote: »
    Hmm, they used to sell 2easy tickets for €3 each that would suit you. But it seems they're no longer available. You could try a few shops to see if they still sell them...
    athtrasna wrote: »
    I don't like the new Travel 90 at all, as a non-regular bus user. With the old ones you could give them to multiple people - ideal if we had houseguests and wanted to get the bus into town. Now it's all on one card which I'm likely to lose before I've made 10 90 minute journeys.

    There was a time when I used the bus all the time but they were just too unreliable and I had to switch to the car.


    I think most people are angry at Dublin Bus at the minute. I don't like their smart cards for one second. In the UK private companies want to tie their users/customers down to these type of tickets and they do that by charging insane prices for single fares. I hate it to be honest. Dublin Bus is apublic service that should be owned and operated by the public.


  • #16
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,468 ✭✭✭markpb


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    I think most people are angry at Dublin Bus at the minute. I don't like their smart cards for one second. In the UK private companies want to tie their users/customers down to these type of tickets and they do that by charging insane prices for single fares. I hate it to be honest. Dublin Bus is apublic service that should be owned and operated by the public.

    I can't speak for other cities but TfL charge insane prices to single cash fares to stop people paying cash. It's expensive and slow and holds everyone else up. It's entirely possible to own a smartcard in London and not have it registered.


  • #17
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,438 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Travel90 should be the base ticket for all Dublin Bus services (and maybe all Dublin public transport in general). They should put parking-meter type machines at the bus stops just selling individual Travel90s for (say) €2 and scrap cash fares altogether. The cash fare system is an over-complicated mess and causes a lot of delays when people are boarding the bus. </my2cents>

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  • #18
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    markpb wrote: »
    I can't speak for other cities but TfL charge insane prices to single cash fares to stop people paying cash. It's expensive and slow and holds everyone else up. It's entirely possible to own a smartcard in London and not have it registered.

    Tfl ??
    In Glasgow First Travel charge £1.50 for a single and £3.20 for an all day ticket with a "return" being about £2.85.

    Considering that most of the UK's prices would have refered to when the Sterling was strong, convert these fares using the €1 = £.65 exchange rate
    loyatemu wrote: »
    Travel90 should be the base ticket for all Dublin Bus services (and maybe all Dublin public transport in general). They should put parking-meter type machines at the bus stops just selling individual Travel90s for (say) €2 and scrap cash fares altogether. The cash fare system is an over-complicated mess and causes a lot of delays when people are boarding the bus. </my2cents>

    The cash fare system may seem a bit messy but any sort of uniform blanket fare and/or card system basically cuts out casual users of the bus and no one should ever be cut out. I appreciate there's people who get it everyday and want it to run smoothly. Some people get on my 150 bus at St Patricks Cathedral and the bleedin bus terminates at Doyles Corner!!


  • #19
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    Tfl ??
    The cash fare system may seem a bit messy but any sort of uniform blanket fare and/or card system basically cuts out casual users of the bus and no one should ever be cut out. I appreciate there's people who get it everyday and want it to run smoothly. Some people get on my 150 bus at St Patricks Cathedral and the bleedin bus terminates at Doyles Corner!!

    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves? Just have it vend out 90 minute tickets for €2 (no change given, no change receipts, just take it or leave it)? This way, you give a bonus to those who purchase the tickets in advance (€18 for 10), have a simple 1-coin approach for those who didn't get their tickets in advance, and get rid of the stages rubbish that makes it so difficult to figure out how much it costs? Personally I use an annual bus&rail ticket, so it doesn't affect me that much, except that the queues would run a lot quicker, and if/when friends ask me how much the fare costs, a simple answer of €2 is a lot easier than trying to guess the current system! For those who think €2 is too much for the really short journeys - if you're disabled / old, you get a free travel pass, so won't be affected, and if you aren't - then if your journey is that short, just walk?


  • #20
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,438 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves? Just have it vend out 90 minute tickets for €2 (no change given, no change receipts, just take it or leave it)? This way, you give a bonus to those who purchase the tickets in advance (€18 for 10), have a simple 1-coin approach for those who didn't get their tickets in advance, and get rid of the stages rubbish that makes it so difficult to figure out how much it costs? Personally I use an annual bus&rail ticket, so it doesn't affect me that much, except that the queues would run a lot quicker, and if/when friends ask me how much the fare costs, a simple answer of €2 is a lot easier than trying to guess the current system! For those who think €2 is too much for the really short journeys - if you're disabled / old, you get a free travel pass, so won't be affected, and if you aren't - then if your journey is that short, just walk?

    exactly - though I think having the machines at the stops would be preferable, otherwise you would have casual users getting on, fumbling for change, trying to figure out the machine etc and at busy stops this could cause a queue. Better to have all this happen before they get on the bus, then they just have to wave the ticket at the sensor.

    Whenever people mention ticket machines, they think of the complicated computerised behemoths used by Irish Rail and the Luas but if you're only vending one type of ticket the machines can be very simple - it would also present an opportunity to rationalise some of the bus stops (too many, too close together).

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  • #21
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves? Just have it vend out 90 minute tickets for €2 (no change given, no change receipts, just take it or leave it)? This way, you give a bonus to those who purchase the tickets in advance (€18 for 10), have a simple 1-coin approach for those who didn't get their tickets in advance, and get rid of the stages rubbish that makes it so difficult to figure out how much it costs? Personally I use an annual bus&rail ticket, so it doesn't affect me that much, except that the queues would run a lot quicker, and if/when friends ask me how much the fare costs, a simple answer of €2 is a lot easier than trying to guess the current system! For those who think €2 is too much for the really short journeys - if you're disabled / old, you get a free travel pass, so won't be affected, and if you aren't - then if your journey is that short, just walk?

    I half agree and half don't. Dublin bus should issue a 90 minute rambler as standard. No more "pay per bus". I think they should do as London does and have ticket machines at bus stops. I am also not against charging higher fares for cash as cash transactions cause too much delay. "How much to <place>?" and then root through change. I used to always get 1.80 in change out before the bus arrived so I could cover any fare, sadly most people don't do this.


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  • #22
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    loyatemu wrote: »

    Whenever people mention ticket machines, they think of the complicated computerised behemoths used by Irish Rail and the Luas but if you're only vending one type of ticket the machines can be very simple - it would also present an opportunity to rationalise some of the bus stops (too many, too close together).

    I'm not afraid of ticket machines :)
    I agree that there's too many bus stops too close together. To be honest Dublin Bus needs to be revolutionised, not just a few knee jerk reactions here and there. The whole thing needs redoing.


  • #23
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    loyatemu wrote: »
    exactly - though I think having the machines at the stops would be preferable, otherwise you would have casual users getting on, fumbling for change, trying to figure out the machine etc and at busy stops this could cause a queue. Better to have all this happen before they get on the bus, then they just have to wave the ticket at the sensor.

    Whenever people mention ticket machines, they think of the complicated computerised behemoths used by Irish Rail and the Luas but if you're only vending one type of ticket the machines can be very simple - it would also present an opportunity to rationalise some of the bus stops (too many, too close together).

    Yes, having them at the stops would be preferable, unfortunately I don't trust the people of this fine nation to not trash them in a drunken stupor :mad: Can you imagine the state of one of those machines in the middle of Tallaght?

    I agree though, the machines should be equivalent to the condom machines in pubs :)


  • #24
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    But why don't Dublin Bus operate a smart card a la Luas. Tag on, tag-off and you're charged accordingly.

    But I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Dublin Bus couldn't find their own arses, never mind trying to manage a large fleet of buses and deliver anything approaching an efficient service.


  • #25
    anotherlostie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭anotherlostie


    TfL, Transport for London, has the right idea with the Oyster Card. The fares are so much lower using this card, and you don't need it to be registered (although it helps if it's lost). Before Christmas, fares were £1.50 on tube using Oyster, compared to £3.50/£4 cash, and 90p on bus compared to £2 cash. And if you exceed the daily 'rambler' ticket charge, it charges you no more than that. If that's not incentive to get one, I don't know what is. My other half is working over there at the moment and I have saved a fortune with my unregistered card!

    I agree totally that a single Transfer 90 ticket fare would be a worthy midterm solution and save so much time with buses delayed picking up passengers.


  • #26
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,468 ✭✭✭markpb


    dudara wrote: »
    But why don't Dublin Bus operate a smart card a la Luas. Tag on, tag-off and you're charged accordingly.

    But I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Dublin Bus couldn't find their own arses, never mind trying to manage a large fleet of buses and deliver anything approaching an efficient service.

    My understanding is that the department of transport would only allow them sell smart card tickets that exactly replaced existing tickets. They don't want any other smart card products because the RPA are procuring one for everyone.


  • #27
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    I think the fact that you have to buy 10 "travel 90" tickets can put many off. If they were sold in shops for €1.80 and advertised properly (the amount of people I've explained the benefit of this ticket to is unreal) then it would be a success and I think Travel 90 could be the biggest selling ticket for the company.

    Look at Luas. Everybody uses the on street ticket machine without any problems. What is stopping Dublin Bus installing 2 or 3 machines on busy streets in the city centre? If O'Connell Street, Dame Street, Westmoreland Street and College Green became cashless areas and passengers had to pre-purchase a travel 90 ticket at the nearby machine, then it would speed up boarding times immensely in these areas and allow buses move much quicker cross city.


  • #28
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,438 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Yes, having them at the stops would be preferable, unfortunately I don't trust the people of this fine nation to not trash them in a drunken stupor :mad: Can you imagine the state of one of those machines in the middle of Tallaght?

    parking meter machines seem to survive quite well in towns all over the country, they're generally solar powered these days too. Stick a gsm device in them so they can report back to base when they're running low on tickets, or are out of order. If the standard ticket is €2 then they don't need to issue change either.

    The benefits of this would be enormous - as Alan says though, it needs to be accompanied by a ground-up retooling of the entire network. Far too many meandering, legacy routes, route duplication, too many stops. If you were designing a bus network for Dublin today, only a maniac would choose the one we currently have....

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  • #29
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,002 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    My understanding is that the department of transport would only allow them sell smart card tickets that exactly replaced existing tickets. They don't want any other smart card products because the RPA are procuring one for everyone.


    Yes indeed,as markpb says,this "Procurement" process was referred to by Minister Dempsey last week on RTE Radio 1`s News at One prog.

    Taking full advantage of a compliant disinterested interviewer Mr D got to waffle on about Sustainable Initiatives and even got to praise the "Work" of the Integrated Ticketing Group which he described as having been set up 3 years ago and which,with luck would have it`s first product on the shelves by Q4 2010.

    So even though Dublin Bus has a system up and running,it is specifically precluded from introducing any NEW iniatives in order to facilitate the Ministers Pal`s.

    It should be noted that the Deloitte report DID make reference to this aspect of Dublin Bus operations in its report,but Mr Dempsey appears to be unaware of that page....
    I agree totally that a single Transfer 90 ticket fare would be a worthy midterm solution and save so much time with buses delayed picking up passengers.

    This could be done NOW and it should be done NOW....however this is TOTALLY a reserved function of the Minister for Transport and it would appear that he prefers the traditional methods best.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #30
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭Polar101


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves?

    Because it would be exactly the same as buying the ticket from the driver - the worst prepaid ticket in the world.

    Also, having ticket machines at every bus stop would also make no sense - there are too many bus stops, so the cost would be astronomical. Even if some stops were removed, it still wouldn't work very well.

    No need to try and come up with anything too complex - make the price of a driver issued ticket more expensive, and offer a good smartcard solution that people will want to use instead. It works in many other European cities.


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  • #31
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,904 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Some more changes: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055489181


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