What do you have to do to get convicted of murder these days?

Pub07 · 12-02-2009 12:52PM #1

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gardas-son-guilty-of-killing-traveller-1636784.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0202/breaking74.htm

And remember that other case recently where some 18/19 year old ran out of his house with knives and killed a guy who was standing outside thehouse with some friends, he got done for manslaughter too.

And then there was the case of the guy who shot his friend from point blank range with a shotgun in a car and left him in a permanent vegetative state - he gets 9 years, prob out in 6 years.

The justice system in this country is a joke, it's almost as bad as the political system, what do you have to do to get convicted of murder in Ireland these days...do you have to tie someone up and use a blowtorch on them or something?

Borneo Fnctn · 12-02-2009 01:01PM

Kill a guy.

destroyer · 12-02-2009 01:02PM

or a gal

Professey Chin · 12-02-2009 01:05PM

jackpalance wrote: »

Kill a guy.

destroyer wrote: »

or a gal

Or a tranny

Puddleduck · 12-02-2009 01:05PM

In front of a judge, some cops, and a solicitor...

you also have to prove that you werent just really tired or something...

thebman · 12-02-2009 01:06PM

Reminds me of Blackadder TBH.

He was witnessed at the scene stabbing the man yelling "I'm glad I killed the b*stard".

Not only did he get off but the judge ordered the families of the victim to wash the blood stains off his clothes.

The best lawyer in London, apparently just a half arsed judicial system in Ireland can have the same effect.

Robbo · 12-02-2009 01:06PM

jackpalance wrote: »

Kill a guy.

With the intention to kill or seriously injure them or whilst being reckless as to whether you kill seriously injure them.

longshanks · 12-02-2009 01:08PM

Puddleduck wrote: »

In front of a judge, some cops, and a solicitor...

you also have to prove that you werent just really tired or something...

if you kill a fella with three of your posh mates you only get a couple of years, and time off (from prison) to do your exams

gamblor1975 · 12-02-2009 01:08PM

The son of the Garda, had a knife in his possession, Took it out after the traveller had bettered him with his fists and then got one good "Stab" in. How is this not murder in its most vile, petty form?

Danbo! · 12-02-2009 01:09PM

"McGovern told gardai that he was shocked that he had pulled a knife on somebody and had only taken out the knife to scare Michael Doherty and didn't mean to make contact."

Well fair enough, he didn't think he'd pull a knife on someone :rolleyes:

CiaranC · 12-02-2009 01:12PM

Murder is planned and premeditated.

Smart Bug · 12-02-2009 01:13PM

In the second case it's clear pre-meditation, how the fcuk did he not go down for 20?!

Lads get refused from a party, go back to their house, arm themselves, return and stab a chap to death. Manslaughter my bollix.

biko · 12-02-2009 01:23PM

When even the sons of Guards *have to* carry knifes you know it's getting rough out there on the mean streets.

cornbb · 12-02-2009 01:23PM

Beats me. Also remember the case of a certain mayo farmer who shot a fleeing man in the back and got away with it...

Smart Bug · 12-02-2009 01:29PM

cornbb wrote: »

Beats me. Also remember the case of a certain mayo farmer who shot a fleeing man in the back and got away with it...

Only thing is with this case - the farmer was being serially victimised & abused by the cretins involved. I'd leave him off over that.

ARGINITE · 12-02-2009 01:31PM

Smart Bug wrote:

Only thing is with this case - the farmer was being serially victimised & abused by the cretins involved. I'd leave him off over that.

QFT.

Pub07 · 12-02-2009 01:31PM

jackpalance wrote: »

Kill a guy.

obviously not.

cornbb · 12-02-2009 01:35PM

Smart Bug wrote: »

Only thing is with this case - the farmer was being serially victimised & abused by the cretins involved. I'd leave him off over that.

Oh right. My neighbour's dog regularly sh*ts on my lawn. Maybe its ok for me to slit its throat on that basis.

Murder is murder, it can't be negated with excuses like that. By "letting him off" you would set a nasty precedent that its ok to kill somebody in cold blood for a reason other than self defence.

longshanks · 12-02-2009 01:37PM

biko wrote: »

When even the sons of Guards *have to* carry knifes you know it's getting rough out there on the mean streets.

i remember back to when i was in secondary school, the sons of guards were always the ones who'd be fighting, drunk or taking acid in school, robbing stuff etc.
its like they were trying to prove they were hard or crazy or whatever, whereas everyone knew that anytime they were caught doing anything they would get away with it cos daddy would step in

ARGINITE · 12-02-2009 01:57PM

cornbb wrote:

Oh right. My neighbour's dog regularly sh*ts on my lawn. Maybe its ok for me to slit its throat on that basis.

TBH I could give the dog a boot in the rear end a few time and if it still didn't learn it's lesson then I would have dispatching it.

If the mayo farmer was your father how would you feel about the subject?

My parents live not to far away from the man and if people were serially victimising and abusing then, then I think my father would have every right to put a stop to it.

cornbb · 12-02-2009 02:00PM

ARGINITE wrote: »

TBH I could give the dog a boot in the rear end a few time and if it still didn't learn it's lesson then I would have dispatching it.

I hope you don't move to galway so or the streets will be littered with slaughtered pooches :pac:
EDIT: just read that you are already in Galway, nevermind

If the mayo farmer was your father how would you feel about the subject?

If the farmer was a relative of mine I would be in no fit state to pass judgement on the man that killed him. I certainly wouldn't be allowed to sit on the jury in that case. I really don't think any justice system should revolve around "how would you feel if?" scenarios. Don't you think it would be fairer on everyone if judges, juries and observers did their best to remain impartial and impassionate?

12-02-2009 02:09PM

i think it was grand that the farmer shot that guy in the back.. better if he'd kneecapped him first.

victimisation is not cool, just cause the guy had his back turned doesn't take away all he had done before.

ARGINITE · 12-02-2009 02:13PM

cornbb wrote: »

I hope you don't move to galway so or the streets will be littered with slaughtered pooches :pac:
EDIT: just read that you are already in Galway, nevermind

If the farmer was a relative of mine I would be in no fit state to pass judgement on the man that killed him. I certainly wouldn't be allowed to sit on the jury in that case. I really don't think any justice system should revolve around "how would you feel if?" scenarios. Don't you think it would be fairer on everyone if judges, juries and observers did their best to remain impartial and impassionate?

My philosophy has always been "shoot them all and let god sort them out"

I didn't ask about the judges, juries and observers and how they stayed impartial. I asked how would you feel?

Svalbard · 12-02-2009 02:16PM

Murder is an acceptable form of revenge? In Mayo, perhaps, but not in the civilized world.

ARGINITE · 12-02-2009 02:17PM

But victimisation is?

Svalbard · 12-02-2009 02:20PM

ARGINITE wrote: »

But victimisation is?

Oh of course, Arginite, top argument.
Thou shalt not kill...unless you are being victimized. Yes I forgot that addendum. How can people actually have opinions like that in this day and age?

12-02-2009 02:25PM

Svalbard wrote: »

Murder is an acceptable form of revenge? In Mayo, perhaps, but not in the civilized world.

the farmer didn't plan a revenge. he reacted to victimisation which was sure to happen again unless he took action.

revenge is a different kettle of fish.

cornbb · 12-02-2009 02:26PM

ARGINITE wrote: »

My philosophy has always been "shoot them all and let god sort them out"

I didn't ask about the judges, juries and observers and how they stayed impartial. I asked how would you feel?

I would be devastated of course! But your question is pointless. How would you feel if you were the widow or child of the man who was shot?

conlonbmw · 12-02-2009 02:28PM

Deleted User wrote: »

i think it was grand that the farmer shot that guy in the back.. better if he'd kneecapped him first.

victimisation is not cool, just cause the guy had his back turned doesn't take away all he had done before.

He shot him in the back, picked him up, then carried him on his back and threw him over a wall and left him to die.

He should have said he fired a warning shot, and then shot him dead, then he would have been fine.

The great thing is that if someone robs your house and you have a shotgun, put a shot in the ceiling before or after you shoot them. CSI could not tell you which shot was first.

BTW crime in Nally's area went down over 40% after Frog was shot.

S.I.R · 12-02-2009 02:29PM

biko wrote: »

When even the sons of Guards *have to* carry knifes you know it's getting rough out there on the mean streets.

their aint no mean streets...

ive walked through finglas, The mun, heck even dollymount strand without having any trouble with the travellers or the local eejits

only dundrum has the lads with something to prove... :rolleyes:

12-02-2009 02:29PM

cornbb wrote: »

I would be devastated of course! But your question is pointless. How would you feel if you were the widow or child of the man who was shot?

who's gonna sell all those gates?

What do you have to do to get convicted of murder these days?

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