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Government close to scrapping 7,500 unused electronic voting machines

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Comments

  • #32
    ART6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭ART6


    sunshinegirl wrote: »
    ah sure no doubt they will be thrown into landfill, rather than be recycled.

    Under the EU Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive (WEEE) they can't be landfilled, so if the government did that they would be considered to be taking the p*ss.:P


  • #33
    kowloon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,186 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    They could be put in schools and used as the centrepiece on 'governmental ineptitude: the age of corruption and self-interest'. :pac:.


  • #34
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    DonJose wrote: »
    7,500 electronic voting machines which cost €50 million to purchase and €650,000 to store between 2004 and 2007 may be scrapped. The reason the machines were never used was because of "concerns about the possibility of tampering with the machines and the lack of a paper trail". "the possibility of tampering with the machines and the lack of a paper trail" should have been the first question asked before spending €50,000,000 unbelievable :eek:

    What the fukk were Fianna Fail thinking :confused:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0210/breaking76.htm

    There was absolutely nothing wrong with them. The "concerns" did not come from computer scientists, they came from normal people who really don't have a clue about technology and how it works. Sure they use electronic voting all the time in America, when was the last time you heard of concerns about the software or about possible hacking?

    Zaph wrote: »
    My issue with them was less about vote rigging and more about personal choice. I used them one when they tested them in 3 or 4 constituencies for a referendum or local elections, can't remember what exactly. While I didn't actually want to do so, there was no option for me to deliberately spoil my vote if that had been my voting intention. I think it's important that people should retain the right to a "non-vote" if they wish to express their dissatisfaction with all the candidates offered or the chouices in a referendum.

    If there is no option for you....then don't vote. It's not like you don't know your choices before you go to the polling station.

    And referendum....the choices are generally yes or no. What other choices do you want?

    You can write whatever you want on it: "None of the above" or "I don't have a clue" or draw a nice little picture of how you think the government are useless. The government and candidates won't see it or hear about it. They'll just see the amount of spoilt votes, regardless of what you wrote on it. If you really aren't happy with any candidates, then go run for the election yourself if you care that much.


  • #35
    cherryghost
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 17,159 Mod ✭✭✭✭cherryghost


    I demand as an apology to the nation, they split the 50 millions with us, the taxpayers.

    i believe that will get us somewhere in the region of 12 euro each! wewt! what would you spend yours on?


  • #36
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    cherryghost wrote: »
    I demand as an apology to the nation, they split the 50 millions with us, the taxpayers.

    i believe that will get us somewhere in the region of 12 euro each! wewt! what would you spend yours on?
    Bullets for my Dragunov 7.62 mm semi-automatic sniper rifle and point it at certain useless elected officials!


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  • #37
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    With the increasing dole queues the Government should take the opportunity to adapt and install these machines in all the labour exchanges across the country. It would be far more efficient than signing on and will save significantly on paperwork and administration. :D


  • #38
    old gregg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,245 ✭✭✭old gregg


    hmm... there were plenty of concerns raised by IT professionals at the time, the most obvious being the fact that a Microsoft Access database formed part of the software solution. Those from a DB programming background will probably agree that much and all as M$ Access has its uses for small projects you'd hardly want to pass several million records through an Access DB and trust it not to spew.


  • #39
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    old gregg wrote: »
    hmm... there were plenty of concerns raised by IT professionals at the time, the most obvious being the fact that a Microsoft Access database formed part of the software solution. Those from a DB programming background will probably agree that much and all as M$ Access has its uses for small projects you'd hardly want to pass several million records through an Access DB and trust it not to spew.

    Security access from an Access database architecture platform is a joke.
    If they (the purchasers) had ANY kop-on, the very least they should have went with Oracle, MySQL, DB2, or Paradox to begin with.

    Not a tweaked and ramped up simplistic Access! Jeeze...


  • #40
    smellslikeshoes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭smellslikeshoes


    I would have thought it would have made more sense to have done away with them back then when they decided they weren't to be used instead of storing them. It really does seem like a royal **** up of judgment to be to be thinking about getting rid of them now with the current economic climate and the governments poor approval rating.


  • #41
    limklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    I am against electronic Voting as it currently stands for all Elections as it can be riged/tampered or misprogrammed or curropted. by numberous of senerios and most importantely it has no backup system i.e. No paper trail to verify the accuracies of votes. also no ability of protest vote. i.e. Candities are not of good enough quality., Voters should express that right and yet carry out the duty to vote.

    As a programmer, I know how easily unententional mistakes can happen and also who to gerry rig the voting instruments If I got access to them and find out how it works then rewrite some code for it. Voting Machines are not that complex!! Your Diswasher, mobile Phone, Watch and Microwave are far more complex to program these Days.

    Maybe if Voting Machines used printed Votes and then ballot the printed vote into a sealed box as present votes are placed. Th Voter can Verify if there vote was casted correctly and then cast the Printed backup vote into the Box.

    Samples Boxes are opened to statisticly verify the election results before Election anouncements results and it would help to prove the accuracties of votes.
    Any Tight Results then all boxes be open and counted to verfiy the Results beyond Doubt.

    Also If there is any decrepacies or disputes then the Paper vote can be used to verify results.

    The Backup Voting can be also be used to Election Day Media Photo's instead of the Electronic dark Hide and vote box and come out and be dazalled into google eye face by then flashing lights of Cameras, etc.


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  • #42
    limklad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭limklad


    Biggins wrote: »
    Security access from an Access database architecture platform is a joke.
    If they (the purchasers) had ANY kop-on, the very least they should have went with Oracle, MySQL, DB2, or Paradox to begin with.

    Not a tweaked and ramped up simplistic Access! Jeeze...
    I agree and I would question any election result if Microsoft software is been used. I would not used it in an election with 10 voters!!
    You do not need complex databases for Voting Machine. A simple Database on each machine with Duplicate each electronic Vote on two electonic Database on the Electronic voting and can be used as a quick check if every thing is going alright at the polling booth and the vote is printed on the Backup ballot sheet when the voter votes and it would be a great backup if things go awry.


  • #43
    thebigcheese22
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,379 ✭✭✭thebigcheese22


    Mark200 wrote: »
    Sure they use electronic voting all the time in America, when was the last time you heard of concerns about the software or about possible hacking?.

    I lol'd so hard at this!!! Yeah sure the Florida vote in 2000 wasn't rigged at all! :rolleyes:


  • #44
    marcsignal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,072 ✭✭✭marcsignal


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Could we not sell them to Zimbabwe.....?

    naw, sure that's where we bought them :D


  • #45
    blackbox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,918 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Step 1 - they should put them up on EBay - some people/institutions will buy them out of curiosity.

    Step 2 - Put them up on Dublinwaste.ie - some people will take them out of curiosity.

    Step 3 - Try to get someone to recycle them.

    Step 4 - Throw whatever is left in a hole in the ground.


  • #46
    Cuddlesworth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,030 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    thebigcheese22 wrote: »
    I lol'd so hard at this!!! Yeah sure the Florida vote in 2000 wasn't rigged at all! :rolleyes:

    In fairness, it was rigged mainly through the media. The same could happen through electronic or paper.


  • #47
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    old gregg wrote: »
    hmm... there were plenty of concerns raised by IT professionals at the time, the most obvious being the fact that a Microsoft Access database formed part of the software solution. Those from a DB programming background will probably agree that much and all as M$ Access has its uses for small projects you'd hardly want to pass several million records through an Access DB and trust it not to spew.
    The US ones were using a 16 bit check sum, so worst case you only had to generate 66,000 fake results to get one that matched the genuine one. Shouldn't take too long on a quad core cpu that can process 12 billion instructions per second, then again the GPU in an Xbox 360 might be even faster


  • #48
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    jester77 wrote: »
    So what does one do with 7500 unused electronic voting machines?

    Wonder if they can play crisis :confused:
    CiaranC wrote: »
    Bit OT, but does anyone actually know what hardware is in these machines?
    On line demo ;)http://www.1mho.com/evoting/


    boards.ie > Hosted > Society > E-Voting > Electronic voting
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=425



    IIRC they are the same as the Dutch machines and yes they can be programmed to play chess, but they are obsolete from every point of view


  • #49
    evoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 183 ✭✭evoke


    The specs of the voting machine are low then. Is that correct?

    Are they touch screen monitors that are on them. Does anyone know exactly where they are stored?


  • #50
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    evoke wrote: »
    ...Does anyone know exactly where they are stored?

    They are being stored around the country in a number of places.
    Primetime last year did a piece on them. They have to be stored in special environmental rooms to ensure that the circuit boards do not become corrupt due to lack of use.
    Primetime also brought up the topical area of some the stored location buildings were coincidently owned by TD's and government officials.
    Both of whom were charging and getting HUGE amounts to store them.


  • #51
    hedgeh0g
    Closed Accounts Posts: 393 ✭✭hedgeh0g


    Biggins wrote: »
    They are being stored around the country in a number of places.


    Primetime also brought up the topical area of some the stored location buildings were coincidently owned by TD's and government official.
    Both of whom were charging and getting HUGE amounts to store them.

    fcukers


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  • #52
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    The good news is that 60% the machines were moved into central storage space at Gormanstown army camp after much, much bad publicity.
    The rest however are still out there costing a fortune in power (for maintaining the environmental conditions), storage, rent space costs, etc.

    2qurarp.jpg


  • #53
    Sparks
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,038 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Mark200 wrote: »
    There was absolutely nothing wrong with them. The "concerns" did not come from computer scientists, they came from normal people who really don't have a clue about technology and how it works. Sure they use electronic voting all the time in America, when was the last time you heard of concerns about the software or about possible hacking?
    • The concerns were valid
    • The concerns did come from computer scientists and engineers
    • There are very deep concerns about electronic voting in the US and a long history of complaints about their systems
    • We've seen actual hacking demonstrated in the US, as well as actual modification of the software during an election as well as modification of the data during an election, all done over a standard 802.11 wireless connection; we've also seen complaints about the programmers of the diebold system not being vetted, and one having a criminal record including a conviction for fraud.


  • #54
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Sparks wrote: »
    • The concerns were valid
    • The concerns did come from computer scientists and engineers
    • There are very deep concerns about electronic voting in the US and a long history of complaints about their systems
    • We've seen actual hacking demonstrated in the US, as well as actual modification of the software during an election as well as modification of the data during an election, all done over a standard 802.11 wireless connection; we've also seen complaints about the programmers of the diebold system not being vetted, and one having a criminal record including a conviction for fraud.

    Correct. For example just look up the info and videos on youtube ("e-voting machine", etc in search engine) that explain the above many times. News items, documentaries, etc.


  • #55
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 99,589 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Slightly OT but Scotland is very similar to ourselves.

    70,000 votes reject by machines in 2007

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/6975346.stm
    First Minister Alex Salmond described the development as "astonishing" and deeply disturbing.

    "I was under the impression - until this revelation - that the ballots that were rejected were actually seen by the election agents as part of the process," he said.

    More than 140,000 ballots were spoilt on 3 May when votes were held for the Scottish Parliament.

    Tens of thousands more ballots were rejected for the local authority elections, which were held on the same day, under a separate electoral system.

    One of the enduring images of election night was of candidates and agents scrutinising screens showing the rejected ballots.

    However, the BBC has learned that in some contests, more than half of all the "spoilt" ballots were rejected without any human adjudication.

    The machines were set to auto-adjudicate if they thought they had a Holyrood ballot paper with a cross in one column but apparently no mark in the other.


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