Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

redout · 08-02-2009 04:16PM

PiE wrote: »

Seriously? lol, just lol.

Are you for real ?

Mancini has won 3 Serie A titles and 4 Coppa Italia in his seven years as a manager.

Rijkaard won 2 la liga's and the Champions league at Barca.

The fact you LoL at this means you are clueless brother !

PiE · 08-02-2009 04:20PM

The fact that Rijkaard had several of the best players the world has ever seen and Mancini didn't have to worry about Juventus or Milan for most of his reign might have something to do with their successes, don't you think "brother"?

redout · 08-02-2009 04:27PM

malice_ wrote: »

Nobody's debating whether you have an opinion or whether this is a messageboard or not. What I posted was that you said you didn't care but then went and formed an opinion and debated it which to me implies that you do care...

Look Pool can keep him and keep ending up trophyless and that suits me down to the ground to be honest. I have an opinion yes but no I dont really care at the end of the day whether he leaves or not. I think he should yes but I wont lose sleep if he doesnt.

So that would be Frank Rijkaard who got Sparta Rotterdam relegated and was sacked from Barcelona after finishing 3rd in 2007/2008? From what I saw of Barcelona under him they could be awesome going forward but when put up against teams built around a strong defensive spine they quickly showed that they didn't really have alternative options and were often then undone by defensive lapses. Their Champions League exit to Liverpool is a perfect case in point.

Refer to my above post to Pie

As for Mancini, I know even less about him. Inter were pretter poor when Liverpool knocked them out of the Champions League last season though.

Refer to my above post to Pie

It's an old saying in football that you make your own luck. Specifically referring to yesterday's game you could argue that the Portsmouth defence was crap but then Liverpool still had to put the ball in the net!

Could argue Liverpool scraped past a team who they should have had no trouble doing so. Luck runs out sooner or later.

Why do you have to refer to them negatively using the word "odd"? Again to refer to yesterday's game in a non-negative way: Couldn't it be argued that it was a sensible tactical ploy to try to utilise Aurelio's range of passing in a more central role or that it made sense to play just 3 defenders under the assumption that Liverpool would have most of the posession? You can be certain that Tony Adams wasn't expecting to see Torres, Kuyt and Reira on the bench.

They are "odd", "strange", "baffling" pick up a newspaper and you will read them words or watch Sky and Setanta !

Finish

colly10 · 08-02-2009 04:29PM

SantryRed wrote: »

They won yesterday so technically his decisions were justified.

Not really, it was only after he brought on 3 of the 4 players he rested that we looked like playing, if he hadn't we would have lost. Whatever you say scoring the winner in injury time is luck and the odds are stacked against you doing it. A goal in the final seconds does not justify his decision, they were muck in defense and if we had have began with the strongest side the game would be over in no time, we could have rested our player then.
We were BLESSED, thats not tactical genius

redout · 08-02-2009 04:29PM

PiE wrote: »

The fact that Rijkaard had several of the best players the world has ever seen and Mancini didn't have to worry about Juventus or Milan for most of his reign might have something to do with their successes, don't you think "brother"?

Ok so then every manager who wins does so because they have great players ! Didnt Greece win Euro 2004 ? A team can only beat those who are put in front of them brother.

Malice · 08-02-2009 04:38PM

They are "odd", "strange", "baffling" pick up a newspaper and you will read them words or watch Sky and Setanta !

Ah! Now we hit the nail on the head. Redout is obviously one of the many people who get the biased information from the papers and Sky and Setanta and regurgitate them as fact without making their own mind up. Out of curiousity redout, do you think Rafa's press conference from Jan 9th was a rant just like the newspapers and Sky and Setanta?

redout · 08-02-2009 04:43PM

malice_ wrote: »

Ah! Now we hit the nail on the head. Redout is obviously one of the many people who get the biased information from the papers and Sky and Setanta and regurgitate them as fact without making their own mind up. Out of curiousity redout, do you think Rafa's press conference from Jan 9th was a rant just like the newspapers and Sky and Setanta?

Get real brother. Anyone who watches football see's them as odd. Go and review this thread and see how many of your own fellow supporters share the opinion.

colly10 · 08-02-2009 04:49PM

redout wrote: »

Get real brother. Anyone who watches football see's them as odd. Go and review this thread and see how many of your own fellow supporters share the opinion.

+1 - Yes, setanta, sky and the tabloids talk alot of ****, just cause they say something doesn't automatically make it false, I find it funny reading how some of the fans try to justify his bizarre decisions, just cause we get away with something does not make it right

Malice · 08-02-2009 04:52PM

redout wrote: »

Get real brother. Anyone who watches football see's them as odd. Go and review this thread and see how many of your own fellow supporters share the opinion.

I assure you I'm being perfectly realistic. I watch enough football to be able to form my own opinion. Are you going to answer my question? Dodge it if you want because I think we both know the answer you're going to give.

Ruskie4Rent · 08-02-2009 05:02PM

malice_ wrote: »

Ah! Now we hit the nail on the head. Redout is obviously one of the many people who get the biased information from the papers and Sky and Setanta and regurgitate them as fact without making their own mind up.

While i would call some of the criticism directed at rafa harsh, but i don't understand why you would call the opinions on sky and setanta biased. Why would they be biased?

redout · 08-02-2009 05:05PM

malice_ wrote: »

I assure you I'm being perfectly realistic. I watch enough football to be able to form my own opinion. Are you going to answer my question? Dodge it if you want because I think we both know the answer you're going to give.

Rafa's press conference was a mistake. It was a preordained attack on a fellow manager which be it a coincidence or not has led to his team to 2 victories, 4 draws and 1 loss in the time since. Now one can interpret it whatever they like but I am sure if you were to ask Stevie G now would he rather the gaffer kept his comments to himself then he would probably say yes.

Jazzy · 08-02-2009 06:44PM

redout wrote: »

ask Stevie G now would he rather the gaffer kept his comments to himself then he would probably say yes.

irony

noodler · 08-02-2009 07:09PM

Jazzy wrote: »

irony

Not really.

PiE · 08-02-2009 07:24PM

redout wrote: »

Ok so then every manager who wins does so because they have great players ! Didnt Greece win Euro 2004 ? A team can only beat those who are put in front of them brother.

What's that got to do with anything? For Liverpool to be within a shout of competing this year is a huge thing. Put Rijkaard or Mancini in charge of Liverpool for this season and we would NOT be 2pts off Utd right now - we'd be sparring with Newcastle for most laughable team.

redout · 08-02-2009 07:32PM

PiE wrote: »

What's that got to do with anything? For Liverpool to be within a shout of competing this year is a huge thing. Put Rijkaard or Mancini in charge of Liverpool for this season and we would NOT be 2pts off Utd right now - we'd be sparring with Newcastle for most laughable team.

How could you possibly know that ? Simple you cant. All you can do is offer what you consider to be what would be the situation. One of those guys could just as easily have Pool top of the league. We dont know and can only speculate.

~Rebel~ · 08-02-2009 07:35PM

regardless how odd the team that was put out yesterday was, its madness for anyone to think he actively did it for the craic or something. Obviously he would have liked Alonso and Torres to be perfectly healthy to start, but they weren't, thats life. Pool had to start with a bit of a makeshift team so he picked the fittest guys out there. With 35mins to go and still at 0-0 he brought on the fittest of the guys on the bench, who had an immediate impact only for Babel to mess up. Poor defending cost us at the other end, but thats nought to do with his selection, considering at the back was where we should have been strongest yesterday.

Pools best players made the difference when they came on as we would have expected they would.

Its worth considering that it was probably the plan to just make sure we were at least at 0-0 (if not winning) later in the game when the better players could make their best impact against more weary players. As it happened our 5 at the back made an uncharacteristic error for the first, and Reina made a very rare error for the second. Thankfully Rafa was indeed correct that our better players, a bit refreshed and only needing to run around for 30ish mins were indeed good enough to get the win.

On another day with some very slight changes in fortune Pool could have won that game 4 nill. It didn't work out that way, but even with a lot of things going against us (not just decisions, but general errors, bounce of the ball etc), they still did get the 3 points, which is all that matters.

Mr Alan · 08-02-2009 07:36PM

why were people talking about a replacement for Rafa in this thread earlier?

Liverpool fans wanted to be involved in the title race after Christmas this year, and guess wat, its the middle of Feb & we are.....so unless you think our squad is so much better than Utds and Chelseas that we should be running away with the league, then surely Rafa is doing a top job?

mystifying.

shotamoose · 08-02-2009 07:38PM

This thread is being killed by idiots.

opr · 08-02-2009 07:38PM

PiE wrote: »

The fact that Rijkaard had several of the best players the world has ever seen and Mancini didn't have to worry about Juventus or Milan for most of his reign might have something to do with their successes, don't you think "brother"?

This is one of the worst rebuttals i have ever read.

Opr

SantryRed · 08-02-2009 07:39PM

colly10 wrote: »

Not really, it was only after he brought on 3 of the 4 players he rested that we looked like playing, if he hadn't we would have lost. Whatever you say scoring the winner in injury time is luck and the odds are stacked against you doing it.

I don't get this? He did rest them. They only had to play 20 minutes. Yous won. I don't get it:rolleyes:

jesus_thats_gre · 08-02-2009 07:42PM

SantryRed wrote: »

I don't get this? He did rest them. They only had to play 20 minutes. Yous won. I don't get it:rolleyes:

I don't get 50% of the posts on this thread..

PiE · 08-02-2009 07:47PM

Mancini's first title was given to him by default when Juve and Milan were going through that whole match-fixing scandal. The second he won when Juve were in Serie B & Milan were docked 10pts. The third he won when Juve had just been promoted and lost a huge chunk of their squad. That's akin to Liverpool winning the PL because Utd and Chelsea went into administration.

You're bashing Rafa for "odd decisions" while others are saying that the team are where they are because of the players, not Rafa when Rijkaard's Barcelona were the perfect example of a team succeeding despite a manager's tactics.

Seriously, take malice's advice stop regurgitating Sky/Sun opinions.

redout · 08-02-2009 07:58PM

PiE wrote: »

Mancini's first title was given to him by default when Juve and Milan were going through that whole match-fixing scandal. The second he won when Juve were in Serie B & Milan were docked 10pts. The third he won when Juve had just been promoted and lost a huge chunk of their squad. That's akin to Liverpool winning the PL because Utd and Chelsea went into administration.

You're bashing Rafa for "odd decisions" while others are saying that the team are where they are because of the players, not Rafa when Rijkaard's Barcelona were the perfect example of a team succeeding despite a manager's tactics.

Seriously, take malice's advice stop regurgitating Sky/Sun opinions.

Its amazing what a spare 5mins and wikipedia can spurt out ! :rolleyes:

~Rebel~ · 08-02-2009 08:10PM

redout wrote: »

Its amazing what a spare 5mins and wikipedia can spurt out ! :rolleyes:

seemed fair enough comments to me. Mancini's life was made much much easier by the antics of Juve and Milan.

Rijkaard I do like, but he definately relied a lot on his teams inventiveness. Tactically he wasn't the best and when his players flair seemed to wane, he didn't seem to have a plan B. Pool dont have the money or the players to simply tell them to go out and express themselves, and still challenge over the full season. That type of approach is what cost us in the Evans years. There has to be a balance between flair and tactics.

Pep has Barca playing totally different and much better. The attacking flair is the same, but just watch them harry and close down teams this year, they swarm and move around the pitch wth fantastic workrate.

redout · 08-02-2009 08:16PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

seemed fair enough comments to me. Mancini's life was made much much easier by the antics of Juve and Milan.

Rijkaard I do like, but he definately relied a lot on his teams inventiveness. Tactically he wasn't the best and when his players flair seemed to wane, he didn't seem to have a plan B. Pool dont have the money or the players to simply tell them to go out and express themselves, and still challenge over the full season. That type of approach is what cost us in the Evans years. There has to be a balance between flair and tactics.

Pep has Barca playing totally different and much better. The attacking flair is the same, but just watch them harry and close down teams this year, they swarm and move around the pitch wth fantastic workrate.

Aye, Scolari won a world cup but his superstars done it for him and he didnt have a clue ! Players dont win on their own. I suppose United won the Champions league and League last year because of Ronaldo and nothing at all got to do with Fergie. :rolleyes:

opr · 08-02-2009 08:16PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

seemed fair enough comments to me. Mancini's life was made much much easier by the antics of Juve and Milan.

Rijkaard I do like, but he definately relied a lot on his teams inventiveness. Tactically he wasn't the best and when his players flair seemed to wane, he didn't seem to have a plan B. Pool dont have the money or the players to simply tell them to go out and express themselves, and still challenge over the full season. That type of approach is what cost us in the Evans years. There has to be a balance between flair and tactics.

Pep has Barca playing totally different and much better. The attacking flair is the same, but just watch them harry and close down teams this year, they swarm and move around the pitch wth fantastic workrate.

Exactly you can do both.

Some managers like Rijkaard as you say go too far one way and are unbalanced but on the flip side of that people will argue that Rafa goes too far the other way and is unbalanced for different reasons but essentially the same reason.

Opr

~Rebel~ · 08-02-2009 08:24PM

redout wrote: »

Aye, Scolari won a world cup but his superstars done it for him and he didnt have a clue ! Players dont win on their own. I suppose United won the Champions league and League last year because of Ronaldo and nothing at all got to do with Fergie. :rolleyes:

what in gods name are you talking about, did you even read what i said!? I said that I like Rijkaard for gods sake. I just dont think he's a top top manager, he did rely a little too much on his players ability, and his success within that job was in providing them the freedom to attack freely switching positions and covering for each other. A lot of the attacking ethos was down to him, but thats not enough to challenge consistently if anything happens to the confidence of the players - theres no ethic to back it up, and thats Exactly what happened to Barca under him. Again, as i said, i like him, i've just never seen any real all round tactical nous from him. And as such, I wouldn't want him at Liverpool. Its not a right fit at all for his style.

Fergie incidentally is a case in point for the exact opposite, Having a solid base in your team to work off of, and as such has created exactly the balance i was talking about. Ferguson too, has shown a lot more intelligence in his subs, selections and changes then i've ever seen from Rijkaard.

Ardent · 08-02-2009 08:27PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

dont particularly like the idea of Rio Ferdinand being allowed to rough Torres up & and i really think he is capable of an intentional dirty tackle to hurt him

Serious question here - how old are you?

redout · 08-02-2009 08:40PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

what in gods name are you talking about, did you even read what i said!? I said that I like Rijkaard for gods sake. I just dont think he's a top top manager, he did rely a little too much on his players ability, and his success within that job was in providing them the freedom to attack freely switching positions and covering for each other. A lot of the attacking ethos was down to him, but thats not enough to challenge consistently if anything happens to the confidence of the players - theres no ethic to back it up, and thats Exactly what happened to Barca under him. Again, as i said, i like him, i've just never seen any real all round tactical nous from him. And as such, I wouldn't want him at Liverpool. Its not a right fit at all for his style.

Fergie incidentally is a case in point for the exact opposite, Having a solid base in your team to work off of, and as such has created exactly the balance i was talking about. Ferguson too, has shown a lot more intelligence in his subs, selections and changes then i've ever seen from Rijkaard.

Speculation. We really dont know.

~Rebel~ · 08-02-2009 08:46PM

redout wrote: »

Speculation. We really dont know.

We dont know what? We Do know that Rijkaard's team had none of the fighting spirit that Peps does. We do know they didn't have the same work ethic of getting the ball back as soon as possible after losing it. We do know he wasn't the most adept at changing the system to cope with the unexpected.

We do also know what the system he did use as successful most of the time and produced beautiful footbal. But when that beautiful football didnt work, we know that he never really produced a workable plan B.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread

Comments