Why are people not livid about this?

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 12:36PM #1

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexaminer/pages/story.aspx-qqqg=ireland-qqqm=ireland-qqqa=ireland-qqqid=83548-qqqx=1.asp

Tuesday,February 03, 2009
Ministers’ trip to Dell HQ costs taxpayer €164,000

By Pat Flynn
THE cost of flying Tánaiste Mary Coughlan and Defence Minister Willie O’Dea to Texas to meet with Dell boss Michael Dell last December has been confirmed to be more than €164,000, even though the cost per person on a scheduled service would have been less that €1,000.

Figures released by the Department of Defence in response to a question by Fine Gael TD Jim O’Keeffe, show that Mr O’Dea made eight overseas trips and used the Government jet for three domestic flights at a cost to the taxpayer of over €500,000.

Some of those trips were to destinations in Europe, including Brussels and Paris, which are served by airlines from Ireland.

The longest journey undertaken on a Government jet by Mr O’Dea last year was on December 14, when he accompanied Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment Mary Coughlan to Texas to meet Michael Dell ahead of the an announcement that 1,900 would be lost at the company’s Limerick plant.

The trip was taken in the Government’s Gulfstream IV jet, which travelled from Baldonnel to Austin, Texas, via Knock and Bangor (Maine). The time spent on board the aircraft was 1,250 minutes (20hr 50min), and at €7,890 per hour to operate the aircraft, the trip cost the taxpayer €164,375.

Member of the Dáil Public Accounts Committee, Jim O’Keefe said: “During the course of the Fás enquiries I came across evidence that foreign travel guidelines established by the Department of Finance were not being followed. I asked every minister to confirm what was spent on travel by their officials, persons, offices or bodies under their remits on foreign travel in the period January 1, 2008 and December 31, 2008.”

The total cost of the 11 overseas trips and three domestic flights undertaken by Mr O’Dea in 2008 was €515,141. These included three trips from Baldonnel to Shannon and back, which cost €7,866. The Taoiseach or other ministers accompanied Minster O’Dea on each of these trips.

The Department of Defence confirmed the “average total cost” per hour of the Government jets is €7,890 for the Gulfstream and €2,950 for the Learjet.

€164,000 would have paid social welfare for nearly 1000 people for 1 week and Tánaiste Mary Coughlan and Defence Minister Willie O’Dea could both have flown to Texas in comfort for less than E1000 each

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 12:36PM

I can't understand why people are not up in arms over this.
Most people just shrugged their shoulders.

Have we really become so spineless and so powerless that we cannot do anything about his?

If I did this in my job (private sector), I would be fired, possibly face jail.
Why does a government minister get away with it?

What is the point in all public sector workers taking a 10% Paycut if the government are blowing it before its even collected?

ejmaztec · 04-02-2009 12:42PM

Is it some kind of international "look at us" snobbery that the **** "running" this country have got a private jet in the first place? Useless dickheads.

MIN2511 · 04-02-2009 12:47PM

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

Riamfada · 04-02-2009 12:51PM

yeah it would .

old boy · 04-02-2009 12:52PM

it was public knowlage that dell would not change direction, that journeyshould have being undertaking while dell were planning their factory in poland

zeusnero · 04-02-2009 12:54PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I can't understand why people are not up in arms over this.
Most people just shrugged their shoulders.

I think people are so used to Fianna Fail raping the country that we've become nonchalent towards their abuse. This and the FAS expenses controversy are just two drops in the ocean.

Also, we're a country of moaners not doers - In other countries the public might sit up and take notice, strike and generally make themselves heard until something gets done about it. Not so here (apart from pensioners and only then when it comes down to having less money in the pocket)

It's very sad to see but if we're honest, Ireland is a nation of crooks, moaners and begrudgers. I think the general consensus is "This is the way things are, they're not going to change..."

IMO it would take a crisis of epic proportions to make things change here...

biko · 04-02-2009 12:56PM

Entourage.

Darragh29 · 04-02-2009 12:58PM

Even the notion of going on a mission like that, to save jobs, in a private jet is crazy! If you are going over looking for a result, you need to play every card, including the smypathy card! I'd have been going over there with holes in the knees of my trousers, turning up in a private jet that Dell Corporation Tax was paying for, was sending the wrong message to begin with...

madmik · 04-02-2009 01:00PM

MIN2511 wrote: »

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

come on

theyve took the piss completely on this one

theyre traveling like billionaires at the expense of the taxpayer

who in any company needs to spend 164,000euro on a single flight?

they should be fired for that at the very least

there is no way people should be losing their homes while govt fat cats are wasting hundreds of thousands

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 01:06PM

MIN2511 wrote: »

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

Most definitely.

Read the first paragraph.
Alternatives were available at a combined cost for both ministers at less than E2000.

So per minister - where they could have got a flight in comfort for E1000, instead they chose to spend E82,000.

Is this some kind of sick joke?
Did I just dream the whole Charlie Haughey thing?

We are going round in circles.

banshee_bones · 04-02-2009 01:07PM

Were jaded.

Comon after the e-voting fiasco, the thing about berties shirts and makeup, the bertie bowl, another thing about the ridiculously expensive curtains in some ministers office somewhere....

are you actually SURPRISED at this outlandish waste of tax payers money???

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 01:11PM

zeusnero wrote: »

I think people are so used to Fianna Fail raping the country that we've become nonchalent towards their abuse. This and the FAS expenses controversy are just two drops in the ocean.

Also, we're a country of moaners not doers - In other countries the public might sit up and take notice, strike and generally make themselves heard until something gets done about it. Not so here (apart from pensioners and only then when it comes down to having less money in the pocket)

It's very sad to see but if we're honest, Ireland is a nation of crooks, moaners and begrudgers. I think the general consensus is "This is the way things are, they're not going to change..."

IMO it would take a crisis of epic proportions to make things change here...

But what can we actually do?
(aside from not voting for them next time round, which is a foregone conclusion I'm sure)

Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.

I read in the paper last week that 300 people were jailed for not paying loans.
How many of that 300 could have been helped if the Tanaiste and the minister bought a ticket like every other politician in Europe, instead of a private jet?

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 01:15PM

banshee_bones wrote: »

Were jaded.

Comon after the e-voting fiasco, the thing about berties shirts and makeup, the bertie bowl, another thing about the ridiculously expensive curtains in some ministers office somewhere....

are you actually SURPRISED at this outlandish waste of tax payers money???

Those was during the 7 Fat years.
Now we're in the 7 Famine years, I think this is beyond excusable.

Seriously, if you share a joint account with 5 other people and 1 of those people is contributing the least but spending significantly more than other people, would you just lie down and take it?

c0rk3r · 04-02-2009 01:15PM

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

This is similar to the same people who moan about the extortionate amount of money footballers earn per week but fail to see the amount of money these footballers generate for the club.

Dell is a big ****ing deal

madmik · 04-02-2009 01:19PM

c0rk3r wrote: »

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

This is similar to the same people who moan about the extortionate amount of money footballers earn per week but fail to see the amount of money these footballers generate for the club.

Dell is a big ****ing deal

DEll would still be a big deal if they spent 1000 on the flight instead of €164,000

they probably landed in the same airport as well

jdivision · 04-02-2009 01:20PM

MIN2511 wrote: »

Would this bother you if they had been sucessful with Dell?

The Dell decision had already been made, and a newspaper had carried a report to that effect. They flew out the next day to try and make themselves look good, to be able to say they had tried everything. Well they didn't. They should have gone over in September when the review started, not when it had ended.

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 01:21PM

c0rk3r wrote: »

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

This is similar to the same people who moan about the extortionate amount of money footballers earn per week but fail to see the amount of money these footballers generate for the club.

Dell is a big ****ing deal

How do you work that one out?
There is no comparison. At all.

The ministers flew to meet Michael Dell at about E10,000 per hour and got told 'sod off'. Their meeting resulted in nothing but expenditure.

What could not have been done for E2000 that was done for E164,000?

I'm fully aware of how important Dell were to Ireland. That is not at dispute.
The issue at hand is the appalling government waste.
Please don't change the topic.

zeusnero · 04-02-2009 01:22PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But what can we actually do?
(aside from not voting for them next time round, which is a foregone conclusion I'm sure)

Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.

Good question - they say one person can make a difference but that's usually down to hard graft or sheer good luck.

In this situation, what you're doing is helping - Bringing this to people's attention will help to turn people against Fianna Fail. You might think FF getting kicked out of Govt the next time is a foregone conclusion but there are a hell of a lot of idiots out there that vote for the same candidate election in/out just because that's who they/their family votes for.

Priority number one has to be getting FF out of Government as that's one of the very very few ways we can try to eliminate this kind of superfluous spending at a time when it is the government who should be setting the belt tightening trend...

Btw, I don't hate Fianna Fail, though I do hate the way they've run Ireland into the ground. (shower of corrupt a**holes

)

Dudess · 04-02-2009 01:24PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I can't understand why people are not up in arms over this.

Plenty of people are. What difference is our rage going to make?

Most people just shrugged their shoulders.

Like who?

Have we really become so spineless and so powerless that we cannot do anything about his?

What do you suggest we do and why aren't you doing it? It's hardly spinelessness when there's nothing that can be done. They were voted in, the horse has bolted. Yep, we are powerless. Blame those who voted FF.

zeusnero wrote: »

Also, we're a country of moaners not doers

Indeed.

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But what can we actually do?
Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.

A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 01:25PM

zeusnero, is that the only thing we can do?

Is there no other way to challenge this?

zeusnero · 04-02-2009 01:25PM

c0rk3r wrote: »

"to meet Michael Dell". As a result of this trip how much money have they generated for Irish people? Id say 1000x the cost of the flight

Absolutely feck all - Do you read up on current events at all?

NEWSFLASH - DELL ARE MOVING TO POLAND!

homerjay2005 · 04-02-2009 01:27PM

why do we even have a government jet in the first place?

f*cking shocking.

aerlingus currently do flights to america for €300 return, and shannon to dublin is about €20, ffs.

Our President was on a flight to Berlin few months ago that i was on,Aer Lingus. she had 3 or 4 lads with her and the german president met her on the runway before we all got off.

if its good enough for a woman whos an excellent embassador of this country, then its good enough for a shower of plebs that are screwing us over left right and center. that Jet should be sold and them shower should should be made to queue like the rest of us.

steof1984 · 04-02-2009 01:29PM

This is a farce once again the TD'S of this country are living the champagne lifestyle on public funds.

People should write a letter to the government demanding an explanation and also to the opposition so that they can highlight this in the next Dail debate

The problem seems to be that people don’t want to make a fuss the people of the politicians constituencies should ask next time they canvass the area WHY THE F**K DID IT COST YOU 80,000 TO FLY TO THE STATES

Dannyboy83 · 04-02-2009 01:29PM

Dudess wrote: »

Plenty of people are. What difference is our rage going to make?
It was the apathy I was trying to highlight, not rage.
People are just accepting this, like its a government right to tell the country tighten the belt while they grab all the food they can.

Like who?
Colleagues, Friends. Only my family were as disgusted as I was.

What do you suggest we do and why aren't you doing it? It's hardly spinelessness when there's nothing that can be done. They were voted in, the horse has bolted. Yep, we are powerless. Blame those who voted FF.
I'm not suggesting anything.
If you read my post carefully, you will see that I am asking "WHAT CAN I DO?"

A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.
First, I'm not moaning.
Second, I didn't say nothing can be done.
I am asking "WHAT CAN BE DONE?"

Do we really have no way to challenge this?
Do we need to change the law?

I would have guessed after all the scandals in recent years, there would have been some legislation to deal with these things.

zeusnero · 04-02-2009 01:31PM

Dudess wrote: »

A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.

As far as I can see the OP had done nothing except try to find out if there is anything that can be done.

On that topic, find out if there's any organisation that you can join (or maybe even found) to get involved. Change requires passion - If you're that passionate about how FF are ruining the country try to make a difference.

And the next time that elections are on the Horizon - do something. Take a leaf out of the US - passionate supporters get involved, canvas for their political party (in this case it would be anti FF canvassing)

MIN2511 · 04-02-2009 01:35PM

madmik wrote: »

come on

theyve took the piss completely on this one

theyre traveling like billionaires at the expense of the taxpayer

who in any company needs to spend 164,000euro on a single flight?

they should be fired for that at the very least

there is no way people should be losing their homes while govt fat cats are wasting hundreds of thousands

I am not saying the spending is justified, i am asking if they had saved the Dell jobs would you be this livid?

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Most definitely.

Read the first paragraph.
Alternatives were available at a combined cost for both ministers at less than E2000.

So per minister - where they could have got a flight in comfort for E1000, instead they chose to spend E82,000.

Is this some kind of sick joke?
Did I just dream the whole Charlie Haughey thing?

We are going round in circles.

You do know it was an entourage, not just the two of them?

jdivision wrote: »

The Dell decision had already been made, and a newspaper had carried a report to that effect. They flew out the next day to try and make themselves look good, to be able to say they had tried everything. Well they didn't. They should have gone over in September when the review started, not when it had ended.

Yes they should have but they probably thought Dell would remain in Ireland(tax purposes).

Everytime we rant about the way FF has failed us, yet we put them in power every election:rolleyes:

I didn't vote in the last election, i wasn't sure of my right to vote as a foreigner....

FG/Labour i don't know if either would have made a difference

Wagon · 04-02-2009 01:44PM

Dudess wrote: »

A couple of posts ago you were moaning about people not doing anything, yet now you're acknowledging there isn't anything that can be done.

Actually, he's doing the opposite. He wants to know if something can be done.

Unfortunately, apart from car bombs and some clever assisinations, I don't have any useful ideas but would be well up for getting them out of power or protesting if I had any clue on how to start one properly.

To be fair, i didn't vote last election. I couldn't make up my mind on time and decide who would damage the country the least, and I didn't want to vote for an independant on principle. I was using logic and assumed after all the previous cock ups, frivolous spending and inemptitude they showed at their jobs (not to mention people saying how they were absolute crap and wanted them out) that they wouldn't be voted back into power. And somehow it happened and I couldn't believe it. WHO voted from them?! The elderly? the rich?

marcsignal · 04-02-2009 01:49PM

Dudess wrote: »

They were voted in, the horse has bolted. Yep, we are powerless. Blame those who voted FF.

I agree Dudess, but you can bet there are still plenty of total and utter gobshites out there who will vote for them again regardless. After the whole Beverly Cooper Flynn debacle there were still lackeys singing her praises. She should have been very publicly discraced, the fckn greedy slimey arrogant bitch :mad::mad:

god help anyone from FF who turns up at my door during the run up to the next election, so help me god I'll run amok with a blunt instrument. What really pisses me off are the Greens, if they had any spine at all they'd walk out and leave Cowan high and dry.

I hope neither party get in again this side of 2050 :mad:

rant over

gleep · 04-02-2009 01:49PM

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

But what can we actually do?
(aside from not voting for them next time round, which is a foregone conclusion I'm sure)

Can we actually do something?
Thats what I want to know because I want to do something about it.

I read in the paper last week that 300 people were jailed for not paying loans.
How many of that 300 could have been helped if the Tanaiste and the minister bought a ticket like every other politician in Europe, instead of a private jet?

If we want the government to take notice the only way to do this is by public protests and civil disobedience. I would totally support civil servants going on strike, I havent bought into the theory that we're in this mess because of the public sector.
We're her because ff have made a balls of running the country and politicans are not politicians because they want to improve the country.
Look at France, if the government there make a balls of something, people take to the streets and get results

sassa · 04-02-2009 01:50PM

To be honest I think I'd be more annoyed at Willie O'Dea telling the irish people they have to make cut backs and suffer now for a better future but used the government jet last year for 8 overseas trips and 3 domestic at a cost of €515,141. :mad::mad:
As for the meeting with dell it reminds me of someone that gets dumped by phone and wants that face to face rejection. It's ridiculous surely they knew they weren't going to be changing anyones mind.

Why are people not livid about this?

Comments