Where are all the props and wingers?

Junior · 30-01-2009 04:18PM

Holy thread reserruction batman !

Speaking of this since I missed it the first time round, I'm sure we had a converted shot putter playing for Ireland at one stage that I can't remember the name of for love nor money ?

I suppose we just don't have well developed sporting programs across the board doesn't help - i.e. someone can't swap from 100 Metres sprinter to Rugby etc, because there aren't really any good development programs for athletes full stop in Ireland.

Is there anyone looking at GAA midfielders that might make full backs ?

Eoin · 30-01-2009 04:20PM

Victor Costello represented Ireland in shotput event of the Barcelona Olympics I believe.

Junior · 30-01-2009 04:37PM

Has to be old age setting in, thanks Eoin, couldn't remember Vic's name at all.. I know one of my mates used to shot putt against him ..

anonymous_joe · 30-01-2009 05:30PM

Junior wrote: »

Holy thread reserruction batman !

Speaking of this since I missed it the first time round, I'm sure we had a converted shot putter playing for Ireland at one stage that I can't remember the name of for love nor money ?

I suppose we just don't have well developed sporting programs across the board doesn't help - i.e. someone can't swap from 100 Metres sprinter to Rugby etc, because there aren't really any good development programs for athletes full stop in Ireland.

Is there anyone looking at GAA midfielders that might make full backs ?

Actually I think our problem is we've too many sports programmes.

The second most common nationality in the Premiership (football) is Irish. In a country that plays Gah, hurling, football and rugby, we've got some decent cyclists, and our athletes aren't that bad either. (One of our's is the 13th best at the 500 metres in the world or something. And he's not black!) We've too many athletes spread too thin, so that we perform far above the level we should, but we never realise it.

piby · 30-01-2009 07:20PM

I think the problem with out-and-out wingers is that with the advent of the professional era players have been encouraged to bulk up more and more and this has trickled down now to the underage levels. I believe we now have a culture of young players focusing more on packing on muscle and size than developing speed and agility at a time in their life when they'll make the biggest gains in that capacity (SAQ). Add to that the pressure on both coaches and players to win the Cup etc. which often results in a lot of teams opting to play a safer, less expansive game with wingers getting involved less than they should be.

Podge_irl · 31-01-2009 01:29AM

Junior wrote: »

Holy thread reserruction batman !

Speaking of this since I missed it the first time round, I'm sure we had a converted shot putter playing for Ireland at one stage that I can't remember the name of for love nor money ?

Though presumably not who are thinking of, Court was a shot putter until quite recently was he not?

[Jackass] · 31-01-2009 12:28PM

Cian Healy looks set to take over the No.1 Jersey probably next season. Hopefully he'll get a run in the 6 nations though.

Jamie Hagan is another very promising Leinster prop who featured against Queensland reds at the start of the season and was superb...also heard good things about Royce Burke Flynn who Le Roux brought over to South Africa to train him with the Super 14 side.

As for wingers, there was an interesting article on Shane Monahan this week (possibly yesterday or day before in indo or times, can't remember) touting him as the "next big thing in Irish rugby", He's also the top try scorer in the AIL division 1. I haven't seen him play though so I don't know how good he is.

Leinster academy seems to be really upping it at the moment and taking in more players than ever. Can only be good for the development of the domestic and international game.

piby · 31-01-2009 01:40PM

Played with Shane Monahan very briefly. He was always a big boy for a winger but he's also pretty quick and wouldn't be surprised to see him break into the set up soon. That said on top of the regular back three players in the senior squad there are also other emerging talents like McFadden and Jones and I don't know how he's getting on but that Russian chap Artemiev is *^"* fast but whether he'd qualify for Ireland I don't know.

Podge_irl · 31-01-2009 04:07PM

piby wrote: »

that Russian chap Artemiev is *^"* fast but whether he'd qualify for Ireland I don't know.

Finished in the academy last year and wasn't offered a senior contract. Playing AIL only at the moment as far as I know. Was called up to the Russian squad recently for a tour of somewhere or other.

Leinster certainly seem to be bringing through an awful lot of promising players in their academy, but none of them are actually breaking through into the first team bar Fitz and Kearney, and Fitz didn't even go through the academy. McFadden, McCarron, Jones etc seem to have completely fallen off the radar (I know one of them has taken a break from rugby, can't remember which).

Junior · 31-01-2009 08:53PM

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Actually I think our problem is we've too many sports programmes.

The second most common nationality in the Premiership (football) is Irish. In a country that plays Gah, hurling, football and rugby, we've got some decent cyclists, and our athletes aren't that bad either. (One of our's is the 13th best at the 500 metres in the world or something. And he's not black!) We've too many athletes spread too thin, so that we perform far above the level we should, but we never realise it.

Jesus man don't get me talking about cycling I could have you and me both in tears ! I would say two out of our three professionals were brought through systems that aren't Irish (Roche and Martin).

Goodluck2me · 02-02-2009 01:08AM

We have lots of props in Ireland, they just dont get the chance to perform in this country.
Leinster will ruin rugby in this country, the irish Perpignon, as they constantly buy in talent, rather than blood their own.
CJ? Nacewa etc.

anonymous_joe · 02-02-2009 01:27AM

goodluck2me wrote: »

We have lots of props in Ireland, they just dont get the chance to perform in this country.
Leinster will ruin rugby in this country, the irish Perpignon, as they constantly buy in talent, rather than blood their own.
CJ? Nacewa etc.

Munster have as many foddiners. :pac:

And Ulster. ^^

Chucky the tree · 02-02-2009 01:40AM

Can people stfu about Leinster not developing talent? They have plenty of good backs coming through and a few potential back and second rowers. There no worse then Munster.

irishbucsfan · 02-02-2009 02:10AM

goodluck2me wrote: »

We have lots of props in Ireland, they just dont get the chance to perform in this country.
Leinster will ruin rugby in this country, the irish Perpignon, as they constantly buy in talent, rather than blood their own.
CJ? Nacewa etc.

Wow.. what an inaccurate comment...

The fact that Leinster have produced Luke Fitzgerald, Rob Kearney, Cian Healy Devin Toner (not an international yet, but one of leinsters outstanding players during the first half of the season, and an excellent prospect) and Johnathan Sexton, shows that they're ruining rugby?

Currently with Mike Ross and Cian Healy playing well and with the Bull and Horan as good as ever I think we're fine for depth at prop in this championship. And going forward we have more and more talent emerging in the front row, especially with Le Rouz casting his gaze over young Leinster men and Corrigan helping out Gary Longwell with young Ulster men. Munster hopefully will continue making their contribution.

On the wing, I'm disappointed that we aren't producing more fast wingers out of our academies, even when there is some talent being neglected. Case in point, Fionn Carr being shipped off to Connacht last season when Leinster turned their back on him. He's a full-back, sure, but he's fast when played on the wing, and has been very effective there playing in green this year (two tries last time out). Instead of signing him up and developing him further, the Leinster coaches decided to go with McFadden and Jones, neither of whom have a future on the wing for Leinster.

Fitzgerald's not fast enough, Kearney is too good at full-back to put on the left, Horgan (who is deceptively fast) is nearing the end, and never had the skills anyway, D'arcy will move into center and fight with Contepomi for the 12 jersey. There are no wingers in Leinster! Apart from Simon Keogh of course. Hopefully there's a short and long term solution to that.

Munster and Ulster don't exactly regularly produce young internationals, Darren Cave and Keith Earls are fabulous prospects though.

irishbucsfan · 02-02-2009 02:20AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Can people stfu about Leinster not developing talent? They have plenty of good backs coming through and a few potential back and second rowers. There no worse then Munster.

13 of 24 current under 20 players are Leinster-affiliated.

Certainly compares well to the 4 from both Ulster and Munster and 3 from Connacht and Overseas combined.

What's really interesting to note is that there's just the one Munster forward in the squad... Worrying for Munster rugby. Hopefully it's just a hiccough

02-02-2009 04:21AM

goodluck2me wrote: »

We have lots of props in Ireland, they just dont get the chance to perform in this country.
Leinster will ruin rugby in this country, the irish Perpignon, as they constantly buy in talent, rather than blood their own.
CJ? Nacewa etc.

Ah,
The casual leinster born Munster fan.Very easy to spot in the wild.Dont have a clue.
Are Perpignon the only club that do this?
Cause from the top 14 statistics every team bar Tolouse and stade (at a push) have more foreigners than French players.

We do have props.Not many are good enough though.

For you information son,under 24 yrs leinster have developed

Healy,Sexton,Fitzgerald,Kearney,Toner,O'Brien,Keatley (connacht),Carr(Connacht),Willis(Ulster),Ronan(Munster) and more.
every one bar willis and carr have ireland call ups or caps.
Alot more than any other province.

Your ignorance is disgusting.

Goodluck2me · 02-02-2009 02:21PM

Mira Green Scam wrote: »

Ah,
The casual leinster born Munster fan.Very easy to spot in the wild.Dont have a clue.
Are Perpignon the only club that do this?
Cause from the top 14 statistics every team bar Tolouse and stade (at a push) have more foreigners than French players.

We do have props.Not many are good enough though.

For you information son,under 24 yrs leinster have developed

Healy,Sexton,Fitzgerald,Kearney,Toner,O'Brien,Keatley (connacht),Carr(Connacht),Willis(Ulster),Ronan(Munster) and more.
every one bar willis and carr have ireland call ups or caps.
Alot more than any other province.
STFU you clown.

Your ignorance is disgusting.

Lol again.

I am far from ignorant on the topic, and know full well the situation there.

Of the players you mentioned how many will start in the Heineken Cup quarters if EVERY player is fit. Obviously Keatley and Carr dont count as they were rejected by Leinster( the province who "developed" them).
Kearney definitely would, fitzgerald might possibly not, Healy Toner and OBrien won't.
Willis wasn;t given a fair crack either, shipped away, Ronan shipped away.

Of the 10 you named only ONE will actually start for the province in Heineken cup, that's hardly develoing youth to international level is it?

Leinster have the highest player base, and SHOULD have more Irish players than anyone else, but In my opinion, and have it on good authority that Cheika will much rather buy an international that play a young irish player to blood him in for fear he mightn't work out.
I mean why the hell did he buy Nacewa if he is pro-young irish talent?

Goodluck2me · 02-02-2009 02:28PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

13 of 24 current under 20 players are Leinster-affiliated.

Certainly compares well to the 4 from both Ulster and Munster and 3 from Connacht and Overseas combined.

What's really interesting to note is that there's just the one Munster forward in the squad... Worrying for Munster rugby. Hopefully it's just a hiccough

The fact that 13/24 are leinster affiliated goes to show how hight he proportion of best Irish talent are coming through Leinster yet they have so little on the field at the top level.
I agree that Ulster/Munster aren't brilliant either, but Munster for some reason, (and I'm a complete neutral here) seem like they will blood player more quickly, I can't think of the last good player to leave Munster due to not getting game time, Reddan perhaps, but Stringer was the Irish #9 at the time.

02-02-2009 02:36PM

goodluck2me wrote: »

Lol again.

I am far from ignorant on the topic, and know full well the situation there.

Of the players you mentioned how many will start in the Heineken Cup quarters if EVERY player is fit. Obviously Keatley and Carr dont count as they were rejected by Leinster( the province who "developed" them).
Kearney definitely would, fitzgerald might possibly not, Healy Toner and OBrien won't.
Willis wasn;t given a fair crack either, shipped away, Ronan shipped away.

Of the 10 you named only ONE will actually start for the province in Heineken cup, that's hardly develoing youth to international level is it?

Leinster have the highest player base, and SHOULD have more Irish players than anyone else, but In my opinion, and have it on good authority that Cheika will much rather buy an international that play a young irish player to blood him in for fear he mightn't work out.
I mean why the hell did he buy Nacewa if he is pro-young irish talent?

They will have a much active role next year.They are all still very young for rugby players.

Obrien and Toner could well start that Heineken match as could healy,fitzgerald definitely will.Cheika has already shown faith with all of them.
Would you start a 21yr old prop?
Its well known they develop much later.

Do you consider Leinster not developing these players if they dont start in this heineken cup?
So what if they dont break through this year,they will next year or year after.
Cheika has already given Healy,Toner and O'Brien lots of gametime this season and they have already shown improvement.

Keatley was not rejected,he was loaned or transfered with a gentlemans agreement and Leinster will be actively seeking to get him back next year,Same with Carr.
Why do you think they were rejected?

Leinster used Connacht like they are supposed to,as a development province.
It seems we are the only province to do this.

Willis was deemed surplus and If he develops at Ulster and makes the irish team it will be because of the training he got at Leinster,be it at schools level or the academy.

Ronan wanted to leave and in an interview basically said he did not bother training properly at leinster and only made the effort when he arrived at Munster,thats his agenda but if he makes it its 1 more player leinster will have developed.

It was a stupid comment from you because out of every province bar Ulster,Leinster provide alot more players.

What you wrote was just ignorant and you are just trying to worm your way out of it.

Also its clear from your comments above you are trying to stir more provincial crap.You have come on here and showed complete ignorance.You should stop before you make yourself look even more clueless.

anonymous_joe · 02-02-2009 03:02PM

What's the point of all this?

There's a limit of (I think) 6 foreign players in each province squad, and Leinster and Munster have certainly reached that limit.

Munster are the team with Tipoki, Mafi and Howlett starting in their backline after all.

Such a silly argument.

02-02-2009 03:04PM

Theres no point.
I just took exception to the utter rubbish that was said.

Leinster,the perpignon of ireland yet we develop the most players?

(thats not a dig at any other province,its clear the quality players that have come from Munster and Ulster but to say Leinster will ruin this country because they dont develop players,is crazy talk and other province fans would agree with me.)

Where are all the props and wingers?

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