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[Article] Eircom to cut off Music File Sharers ..

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    #362
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    Cabaal wrote: »
    I never at any time said that Limewire or any other P2P was illegal in anyway, I did however state that downloading copyright material is against the law.

    You can try and justify it all you want but its illegal,

    TECHNICALLY you are correct! But in reality its not how things work. Communism on paper is a great idea. In practice...epic Misery!

    Moderator or not, i disagree absolutely!

    Why are moderators, pushing THEIR view, which amazingly, agrees and is on message with the record companies on this, i find that interesting.


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    #363
    generalmiaow
    Registered Users Posts: 865 ✭✭✭generalmiaow


    Tony Broke wrote: »
    Rapidshare, megashares etc are safe?

    Probably. What you do with rapidshare is between your browser and rapidshare. I don't think eircom are going to be opening every XXXlesbianhorseporn.rar with a password that you download to see if it is copyrighted. This is the responsibility of the copyright holder and they have no access to rapidshare's logs.


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    #364
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    generalmiaow wrote: »
    Sony are hardly the best example. but I agree otherwise.

    yeah i hate their "pc software" ,it turns things to snails.

    Deadly name by the way:D


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    #365
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    AntiRip wrote: »
    I'm talking about a 7 year old kid here.

    Age doesn't matter, if your 9 or 90 if your download copyright material and you do not have permission to do so it is breaking the law.

    You can twist it and justify it and lay down as many examples as you want but that does not change that very fact that it is illegal.

    In addition to this you signed up to your ISP in which their T&C's very clearly state that downloading copyright material is against the service agreement, if you are reported for downloading copyright material then your ISP is well within its rights to terminate your service.

    If you don't like these terms then don't subscribe to the service, if you don't like these copyright laws then move to some country with extremely lax copyright laws.


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    #366
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    I very much doubt people would spend money like they would download.
    It's high alright ,but no one really nows what money is lost and why. If there wasn't the p2p ,they would blame the recession.

    The evidence has been available for years now with the fall in the sale of cds and the closure of so many record shops all over the world.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/arts/music/18reco.html?_r=1&sq=record%20stores%20closing&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=10&adxnnlx=1233277241-dxkRgLl+Bct82eJP1eqVQg

    And this is not a victim less act remember. Think of all the people who worked in record stores all over the world who have lost their jobs over the past years. Not to mention the large number of record stores that have closed in Dublin over the past 10 years or so.


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    #367
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    telemakus wrote: »
    TECHNICALLY you are correct! But in reality its not how things work. Communism on paper is a great idea. In practice...epic Misery!

    Moderator or not, i disagree absolutely!

    Why are moderators, pushing THEIR view, which amazingly, agrees and is on message with the record companies on this, i find that interesting.

    LOL
    telemakus, your one of the first users in this thread to put on a tinfoil hat....good job :rolleyes:

    Mods in league with the ISP's and music companys.....you just keep thinking that. :rolleyes:

    My view is simply that which is legal, your comparing copyright material to Communism?..your kidding me right.

    Ok say you write a book and you plan on making a living from writing, wouldn't you be pissed if somebody scanned it and then allowed people to download it so you didn't get a penny. But they did it because books are so expensive, after all it was 15e to buy your book. Lets see how you'd feel then.
    AntiRip wrote: »
    I totally agree with you that its illegal. I was just saying that my neice was using my wifi using this and she doesn't know it wasn't illegal. Thats all

    Fair enough, but thats down to education.
    Ignorance is not an excuse to the laws......and is not a defense


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    #368
    generalmiaow
    Registered Users Posts: 865 ✭✭✭generalmiaow


    jor el wrote: »
    I've seen these numbers bandied about before, and I do believe that they are not accurate. The way they calculate losses, is to put a value on every single song that was being shared, and multiply by the number of times they believe it was shared. This only gives a real result, in terms of loss of sales, if every single person that downloaded a track illegally, would have bought that track anyway. In a lot of cases, IMO, these wouldn't have translated into sales, had the track not been available illegally. So the figures are distorted, by a large amount I would say.

    Also, from listening to representatives of IRMA and the RIAA, etc, they seem to be garnishing the illegal track sharing figures somewhat. They often make reference to individuals who were sharing tens of thousands of tracks, to tens of thousands of other Internet users, on a weekly basis. Now, a person may have this number of music tracks in their share folder, but it's not likely that you could upload that many songs, to that many users, in such a period of time. It just couldn't happen.

    Not saying that it doesn't hurt the music industry, but the figures they quote are way off the mark, in my opinion.

    Not to mention that the same people believe that the American campaign of suing file-sharers for $100,000 for a few songs is a mathematically sound approach. Those dollar amounts are derived from figures similar to those quoted above.


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    #369
    AntiRip
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭AntiRip


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Age doesn't matter, if your 9 or 90 if your download copyright material and you do not have permission to do so it is breaking the law.

    You can twist it and justify it and lay down as many examples as you want but that does not change that very fact that it is illegal.

    In addition to this you signed up to your ISP in which their T&C's very clearly state that downloading copyright material is against the service agreement, if you are reported for downloading copyright material then your ISP is well within its rights to terminate your service.

    If you don't like these terms then don't subscribe to the service, if you don't like these copyright laws then move to some country with extremely lax copyright laws.


    It's true what the previous poster said above about mods here. I'm not trying or twist anything. I'm not saying it's not illegal or anything. Lets leave it at that.


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    #370
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    Cabaal wrote: »
    sigh
    They are not, your connect to a P2P source that they are connected to, they log your IP which is available to EVERY website you visit anyway.

    What they are doing is perfectly legal,

    wow, your arrogant arent you! *sigh*

    I understand how it works! But how do YOU know that's all they are not doing??

    In the US they paid for a company to break and enter in to machine to gather so called evidence!! And i Imagine, in order to NOT appear like fools in front of a judge, they will have some pretty Sterling evidence for that final kick off! An IP address wont just cut it i dont think! Certainly it has not in the US. But then Ireland......


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    #371
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    AntiRip wrote: »
    I'm talking about a 7 year old kid here.

    More like a 7 year old I would say:rolleyes:

    A seven year old with a compulsion to fill a 160gb ipod?

    Funnily enough don't adults usually point out to 7 year olds what they can and cannot do?


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    #372
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    telemakus wrote: »
    Why are moderators, pushing THEIR view, which amazingly, agrees and is on message with the record companies on this, i find that interesting.

    Why is it interesting? Practically everyone on this thread is pushing their opinion. Am I not allowed to have an opinion then, or is there something wrong with me not thinking this is actually a bad thing at all?

    As a moderator, it's doubly important that I'm not seen to be pro-piracy, as it would land this website in a whole lot of trouble, regardless of my personal opinions on the matter.

    Now, off to Conspiracy Theories with you.


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    #373
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    Cabaal wrote: »
    LOL
    telemakus, your one of the first users in this thread to put on a tinfoil hat....good job :rolleyes:

    Mods in league with the ISP's and music companys.....you just keep thinking that. :rolleyes:

    My view is simply that which is legal,



    Fair enough, but thats down to education.
    Ignorance is not an excuse to the laws......and is not a defense

    Im just saying! And Mods using their position to call someone a tinfoil hat wearer is not very impressive!! I mean do you really think, an emboldened IMRO will stop and present evidence to a judge based on just IP?????

    From my knowledge, thats where it goes!! Theres nothing tinfoil about seeing what will eventually happen!! But what do i care!


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    #374
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    jor el wrote: »
    Why is it interesting? Practically everyone on this thread is pushing their opinion. Am I not allowed to have an opinion then, or is there something wrong with me not thinking this is actually a bad thing at all?

    As a moderator, it's doubly important that I'm not seen to be pro-piracy, as it would land this website in a whole lot of trouble, regardless of my personal opinions on the matter.

    Now, off to Conspiracy Theories with you.

    Fair enough! Pro-Piracy i agree you cannot be seen to be! No need to go to conspiracy theories! The ISPs and WRECKord Co's have already agreed.


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    #375
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    dub45 wrote: »
    The evidence has been available for years now with the fall in the sale of cds and the closure of so many record shops all over the world.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/arts/music/18reco.html?_r=1&sq=record%20stores%20closing&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=10&adxnnlx=1233277241-dxkRgLl+Bct82eJP1eqVQg

    I can only comment on things I know about ,my CD collection is still going strong. Lately I am getting lazy though and really feel the need for a decent choice in music online.
    It can feel like you are a horse with blinders on ,i believe people should be allowed download five albums or so. Given 24 hours with them and pay for the one the want.


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    #376
    neilk32
    Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭neilk32


    i think what a lot of people are not realising is it is not the bands that are losing money its the big companies. Bands make their money from playing live shows and if people download there music because of a friends recommendation and go to their shows and they recommend their friend its like a rollover effect. Infact i think it is fair to say that a lot of bands that are big today wouldnt be if all the bandwagon didnt hop on and download their music.


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    #377
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    Why are you talking about judges and courts, telemakus? This was brought into effect so as to avoid all that.


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    #378
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    telemakus wrote: »
    TECHNICALLY you are correct! But in reality its not how things work. Communism on paper is a great idea. In practice...epic Misery!

    Moderator or not, i disagree absolutely!

    Why are moderators, pushing THEIR view, which amazingly, agrees and is on message with the record companies on this, i find that interesting.

    If you find that interesting you lead a sad life. Mods pushing THEIR view? Are mods not permitted to contribute like anyone else to a debate.

    Is anyone who disagrees with you pushing THEIR view?

    Oh yeah I confess PR people from Universal - Sony BMG - Emi tracked down my identity via specially installed snooping devices on boards and have offered me large bribes and tickets to far away places so long as I stay 'on message' with them.

    Shock Horror payola hits boards!!!:rolleyes:

    http://www.history-of-rock.com/payola.htm


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    #379
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    Cabaal wrote: »
    So your basing your paranoia on pure speculation on stuff that is likely to never happen in Ireland given that European laws are very different to the US.


    Ha! Paranoia?? its my experience!!! But I see how your trying to paint my messages!! (tinfoil hat, paranoid, etc etc)

    This announcement, has come as a great shock! Especially since the UK etc, poo-poo'd the notion. I mean are the people who were against this (before it was thrown out as a measure) in the UK/US, are they paranoid as well? Do they wear tinfoil hats?

    Its a logical thought progression to be honest. To be even more honest im just embarrassed to be Irish at this point!


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    #380
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    dub45 wrote: »
    Oh yeah I confess PR people from Universal - Sony BMG - Emi tracked down my identity via specially installed snooping devices on boards and have offered me large bribes and tickets to far away places so long as I stay 'on message' with them.

    Icks nay on the ibes-bray, dub...


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    #381
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    yoshytoshy wrote: »
    I can only comment on things I know about ,my CD collection is still going strong. Lately I am getting lazy though and really feel the need for a decent choice in music online.
    It can feel like you are a horse with blinders on ,i believe people should be allowed download five albums or so. Given 24 hours with them and pay for the one the want.

    I have a huge collection too - and I don't know what laziness has to do with your apparent perception of the absence of music on line. There is an amazing amount of music to listen to on line without having to download anything legitimately or illegitimately. The choice of radio stations from all over the world is quite extraordinary not to mention the variety of musical podcasts available.


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    #382
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    neilk32 wrote: »
    i think what a lot of people are not realising is it is not the bands that are losing money its the big companies. Bands make their money from playing live shows and if people download there music because of a friends recommendation and go to their shows and they recommend their friend its like a rollover effect. Infact i think it is fair to say that a lot of bands that are big today wouldnt be if all the bandwagon didnt hop on and download their music.

    Perhaps they wouldn't have been initially made big I'd agree, however bands can;t make much money from free music downloads and instead the record companys pick them up and money is made from CD and download sales.

    You can't have one without the other, you'll notice even Radiohead tried to do the sell music on their own and it seemed like a great idea but in the end they ended up selling the new album through normal channels


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    #383
    jor el
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,713 ✭✭✭✭jor el


    telemakus wrote: »
    This announcement, has come as a great shock! Especially since the UK etc, poo-poo'd the notion. I mean are the people who were against this (before it was thrown out as a measure) in the UK/US, are they paranoid as well? Do they wear tinfoil hats?

    No one's saying your paranoid because of the agreement that was made. We're saying your paranoid over your insinuation that the moderators are somehow in league with the record industry, to push their opinions regarding music piracy onto the the good people of this forum. Which is just plain bizarre.


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    #384
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    telemakus wrote: »
    Ha! Paranoia?? its my experience!!! But I see how your trying to paint my messages!! (tinfoil hat, paranoid, etc etc)

    This announcement, has come as a great shock! Especially since the UK etc, poo-poo'd the notion. I mean are the people who were against this (before it was thrown out as a measure) in the UK/US, are they paranoid as well? Do they wear tinfoil hats?

    Its a logical thought progression to be honest. To be even more honest im just embarrassed to be Irish at this point!

    I am embarrassed that you are Irish too so we can agree on something.:rolleyes:


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    #385
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    dub45 wrote: »
    If you find that interesting you lead a sad life. Mods pushing THEIR view? Are mods not permitted to contribute like anyone else to a debate.

    Is anyone who disagrees with you pushing THEIR view?

    Oh yeah I confess PR people from Universal - Sony BMG - Emi tracked down my identity via specially installed snooping devices on boards and have offered me large bribes and tickets to far away places so long as I stay 'on message' with them.

    Shock Horror payola hits boards!!!:rolleyes:

    http://www.history-of-rock.com/payola.htm

    Was it boards that buckled to XXX and banned discussion of XXX related stuff etc? Was it? or am i getting that wrong?

    I agreed that mods cant be seen to be biased, but ALL mods having the same opinion is noted! thats all im saying! No need for hysterical reaction!! Its just an opinion. I dont like how you are calling me sad!! I dont understand why you are abusing a board memeber for pointing out something, which is an opinion!

    You have your opinion, i said mine, and you and other mods have called me tinfoil hat wearer, sad, conspiracy theorists etc! while i have said nothig to you lot!!! - all i can say to that is interesting! :)


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    #386
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    telemakus wrote: »
    Ha! Paranoia?? its my experience!!! But I see how your trying to paint my messages!! (tinfoil hat, paranoid, etc etc)

    This announcement, has come as a great shock! Especially since the UK etc, poo-poo'd the notion. I mean are the people who were against this (before it was thrown out as a measure) in the UK/US, are they paranoid as well? Do they wear tinfoil hats?

    Its a logical thought progression to be honest. To be even more honest im just embarrassed to be Irish at this point!

    Your kidding me right?
    The movie and music industry has been notify ISP's for years in Ireland, UK and the US that users have been downloading copyright material. ISP's normally wouldn't be too pushed but if they got enough reports they'd contact the end user and warn them.

    This move is nothing new its simply being streamlined to satisfy the owners of the copyright material....they merely want to protect their investment


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    #387
    FruitLover
    Registered Users Posts: 2,534 ✭✭✭FruitLover


    telemakus wrote: »
    Huge blah blah blah rant...

    Congratulations on completely missing the point :rolleyes:
    telemakus wrote: »
    Why are moderators, pushing THEIR view, which amazingly, agrees and is on message with the record companies on this, i find that interesting.

    Eh... moderators are also regular posters. Yet I don't see you giving out about regular non-mod posters "pushing" their view.
    telemakus wrote: »
    Mods using their position to call someone a tinfoil hat wearer is not very impressive!!

    You sound like a tinfoil hat wearer.

    See? Non-moderators can do this too. What "position" have I abused by doing that? You're making yourself look silly.

    (OK mods, I'll take my brown envelope now....)
    dub45 wrote: »
    The evidence has been available for years now with the fall in the sale of cds and the closure of so many record shops all over the world.

    You may as well blame that on the likes of Amazon, Play and (legal) commercial mp3 sites. I'm not convinced in the slightest that high-street media shops losing money is down to piracy.

    Case in point:

    Number of records and CDs I've bought in the last year:
    zero

    Number of mp3s I've bought in the last year:
    probably around 50


  • Options
    #388
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    jor el wrote: »
    Why are you talking about judges and courts, telemakus? This was brought into effect so as to avoid all that.


    well, as per usual, a blocked user inevitably WILL appeal against a ban!!! Where then? the carpark?


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    #389
    yoshytoshy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,305 ✭✭✭yoshytoshy


    dub45 wrote: »
    I have a huge collection too - and I don't know what laziness has to do with your apparent perception of the absence of music on line. There is an amazing amount of music to listen to on line without having to download anything legitimately or illegitimately. The choice of radio stations from all over the world is quite extraordinary not to mention the variety of musical podcasts available.

    Laziness i'm referring to is that of getting cd's out as oppose to listening to music I've ripped to the pc.
    I've not ever tried internet radio (apart from RTE),sounds like a great idea.
    I do like to listen through albums though ,even if I don't like them I like to make my own opinion on them. It's very hard online to do this I feel ,with all the protection and bitterness towards listeners/customers.:(


  • Options
    #390
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,470 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    telemakus wrote: »
    Was it boards that buckled to XXX and banned discussion of XXX related stuff etc? Was it? or am i getting that wrong?

    I strongly suggest you cease all discussions on this matter for your own good. This is your ONLY warning!
    Any further discussions on that subject will get you banned, the rules are VERY clear!

    Cabaal,


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    #391
    telemakus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭telemakus


    dub45 wrote: »
    I am embarrassed that you are Irish too so we can agree on something.:rolleyes:

    wow nasty!!!!


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