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Fixing the problems associated with the crappy Jazzmaster/Mustang bridge

  • 23-01-2009 08:28AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭


    As some of ye know, I picked up a Bigsby equipped Tele recently, complete with the much maligned Jazzmaster bridge. It's every bit as bad as legend tells, it was a bit of a surprise to see just how badly designed the whole thing was. There's a lovely gentle vibrato to the Bigsby but when the ****er goes wildly out of tune every time you breathe on it, it sucks the fun right out of it.

    tele1.jpg


    Anyone who has this bridge knows all about the rattles, the strings popping out and its inability to stay in tune for more than five seconds. It's really ****, I can't put into words just how clearly the design as it is simply cannot stay in tune, as long as the laws of physics apply to planet Earth.

    tele2.jpg


    This pic illustrates the problems - the string touches both the intonation screw and the back of the bridge baseplate, before it makes contact with the saddle. The string angle over the saddle is so shallow there is next to no force pushing the string down over the saddle, so the height adjuster nuts come loose easily, the saddles rattle around, the strings pop out of the shallow saddle grooves and there's so much friction when you use the Bigsby it won't ever go back to the pitch it was. Plus, the saddle height adjusters stick up and rip lovely soft palm flesh with ease as you strum.

    tele3.jpg


    As if that wasn't bad enough, the entire bridge sits precariously balanced on two of these fine points, happily wobbling back and forth with nothing but the tension of the strings lightly resting on top of it to keep it upright. There's about 1cm of travel back and forth in the ferrules as they are and the whole thing moves with the strings when you operate the Bigsby. When you think of how much friction is affecting the string due to it grinding off the intonation screw and bridge baseplate there is no way the tension can be constant to return the bridge back to its zero point. This also screws up the intonation as the position of the saddles isn't constant in relation to the nut and, of course, general tuning too. The Mustang bridge is essentially the same design but with different saddles with just one big groove in them. Other than that, they share every other flaw and they're just as **** as the Jazzmaster design.

    tele4.jpg


    Happily, a quick twist of an allen key retracts these back up the shaft which is shorter than the ferrule it sits in, meaning the arse of the bridge will sit flush on the body of the guitar when fully retracted. I've put some aluminium tape (copper shielding tape would do the same thing) around the top of each shaft, enough to require a bit of force to fit it in the ferrule and this prevents the bridge moving back and forth. Stability at last.

    tele5.jpg


    OK, so the bridge will sit low and flat on the body and won't move around anymore. That's half the battle.

    tele8.jpg


    Adding a shim to the neck will slightly increase the angle of the neck against the body, meaning the saddles will need to be raised to give sufficient action. A small bit of business card folded over will add about 3mm to the required height of the strings over the bridge. I use Animal Welfare Veterinary Hospital brand business cards, they've got the best tone and make you play faster and rock harder, like scallops. I tired other brand business cards but they just didn't have the warmth I needed in my tone. I hear Steve Vai is bringing out a signature business card shim, we'll wait and see how good that is.

    tele6.jpg


    With the neck re-attached you can see you barely notice the angle change in the neck pocket.

    tele7.jpg


    But you can see the difference in string height now, they're way too low, so the saddles will need to be raised a fair bit, which will increase the string angle and get them up over the baseplate and intonation screws.

    tele10.jpg


    Before you string it up turn the intonation screws anti-clockwise to move the saddles towards the nut. As you raise the saddles to get the action sorted, the angle of the screw head against the baseplate will pull them back towards the Bigsby, screwing up the intonation.

    John, this is what I was talking about, the ear plug used to keep the string on the post, it makes stringing the Bigsby so much easier and won't damage the finish.

    tele9.jpg


    With the saddles raised so the action is the same as it was before you can see how the strings now clear the intonation screw and the bridge baseplate.

    tele11.jpg


    The angle over the saddle is also much greater, meaning there's more force pushing the string down into the saddle grooves. Now the strings won't pop out.

    tele12.jpg


    The bridge height adjusters are also recessed into the saddle, so your hand won't get chafed again. Plus, there's plenty of pressure on them now so they won't rattle or come loose.

    tele13.jpg


    Compare this to the second pic, you can see how much more clearance there is over the bridge baseplate. You might need to raise the pickup height to compensate, but it's a minor adjustment. You'll get used to the slighlty different feel in a couple of minutes.

    tele14.jpg


    That's it. No more rattles, no more strings popping out, no cuts and bruises and, best of all, it stays in tune when you use the Bigsby. Honestly. Rock on!

    tele15.jpg


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭Johnny Storm


    Doctor J wrote: »
    ..... I use Animal Welfare Veterinary Hospital brand business cards, they've got the best tone and make you play faster and rock harder...

    I knew it! :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,020 ✭✭✭68 lost souls


    Again some nice work Doc. Thanks for the tutorials as ever. Ill be working on my own soon hopefully. I would have thought that you had to adjust the nut aswel if you shimmed the neck sinc the angle of the strings will change relitave to the fretboard?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    No, when you bring the bridge saddles up the strings run along the neck in the same way as before, you adjust the bridge so it is in the same position in relation to the nut as before.

    If the strings were at a different angle that would mean the action would to too high or too low like this

    tele10.jpg

    but raising the saddles relative to the body only brings them back in line with the neck. The nut's position in relation to the neck never changes, nor does the general angle the strings will hit it at.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 23,365 Mod ✭✭✭✭feylya


    Very good tutorial. I've copied the first post into the Resources thread for future reference.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,367 ✭✭✭spoonbadger


    Clever idea with the neck shim doc!!. I've never heard of someone using that to fix jazzmaster-cancer (errr,the bridge :)) before!.

    One thing i will never understand is what the deal is with spikes on bigsby bridges. It'd be soooo much easier to just drill 6 holes through the bar and pass the strings through them before tuning up!.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Glassheart


    I had absolutely no tuning problems with that guitar...

    I used 10's on that guitar but just before the trade i tried a set of 9's and there was a bit buzzing of it.
    Sorry about the hassle.I hope you are enjoying it now!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    i replaced the saddles on my jag with the tusq ones from graph tech
    they have individual height adjustment screws on there which is great,really improves the movement of the string across the saddle,no more popping out!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16 johnny12345


    hey need advice, want to change over a fender acoustic from Lh to rh, big sentemental value, suppose it needs a new nut and saddle and would'nt mind lowering the action a touch, new strings and a general clean,its been in an attic for 5 years or so, quoted 150 plus seems a bit steep, to hard to do myself? recomend anyone? any advice welcome..........thanks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Glassheart wrote: »
    I had absolutely no tuning problems with that guitar...

    I used 10's on that guitar but just before the trade i tried a set of 9's and there was a bit buzzing of it.
    Sorry about the hassle.I hope you are enjoying it now!
    Don't worry, it's grand, it's something that affects every one of them :)
    Clever idea with the neck shim doc!!. I've never heard of someone using that to fix jazzmaster-cancer (errr,the bridge :)) before!.

    One thing i will never understand is what the deal is with spikes on bigsby bridges. It'd be soooo much easier to just drill 6 holes through the bar and pass the strings through them before tuning up!.
    Yeah, there are a few things that you'd scratch your head over alright :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    Great job man - I just dunno where you find the patience & stamina for this type of work!

    Oooh, that last pic with the Tele against the Bassman is making me feel all funny...:pac:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Ancient1 wrote: »
    Oooh, that last pic with the Tele against the Bassman is making me feel all funny...:pac:
    That one was just for you, man, I knew you'd appreciate it. You'll notice the Fulltone, Tremolo and Holy Grail up there too ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    Doc J is that my old Bassman? can't remember who i sold it to on here?
    I miss that one :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    I don't think so... the guy I got it off said he had it for years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    hmmm can't remember who i sold it to!,
    i always found it was fussy with what fuzz pedals it would take
    great cleans though


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Yeah, I've had that before where you think, who are you? I sold what to you? :pac:

    Yer man said it was an early 90's one, one of the original reissues? would you believe I've never actually checked :o I listened to it, liked the sound and that's good enough for me.

    It doesn't like lots of thick fuzz or a heavy distortion that's for sure, but a Tubescreamer or especially the Fulltone giving it a playful little kick in the hoop makes it sing. Honestly, it sounds amazing with the OD, some tremolo and some reverb.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭fish-head


    You're a clever bugger, Doc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Heh heh heh, cheers man. When it comes to paying 150 quid for a Mastery bridge or being a cheap bastard but resourceful, you may call me Scrooge :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    Doctor J wrote: »
    That one was just for you, man, I knew you'd appreciate it. You'll notice the Fulltone, Tremolo and Holy Grail up there too ;)

    I did man, I did....*sigh* :pac:

    So what's the deal with the Jazzmaster bridges then - is this a common problem or was yours just a dud?
    Can't say I ever played one, although an incorrigibly bad Hoefner I had about 15-16 years ago had some such contraption...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,815 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    Its the same on all of them, except the J Mascis signature. That one comes with a tune-o-matic bridge. :)

    fender_mustang_JMascis_inpage5.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭eoin5


    The Classic Player Jags are like that too I think.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Ancient1 wrote: »
    So what's the deal with the Jazzmaster bridges then - is this a common problem or was yours just a dud?
    Jazzmasters, Jaguars and Mustangs all have it, by the looks of it, although the Mustang saddles just have one big string slot so the strings don't pop out quite as easily. They all share the problem of the baseplate the saddles sit in being U shaped, the saddles just don't come up high enough above the baseplate for the strings to clear the baseplate and the intonation screw. Plus the whole thing sits on two fine points with nothing to hold it steady, no zero point for want of a better term, and rattles back and forth like a spoon in an empty cup. The idea is the strings hold it in position by resting on it... just a terrible idea really. So first idea was to fix the bridge in place to take that huge variable out of it and then see what I could do to get the saddles high enough over the baseplate so the strings would have a clear run from the Bigsby to the saddle. It doesn't help that the intonations screws are in line with the middle of the saddle and, therefore, the strings too.

    If you look at the second and third pics you'll see just how badly the baseplate and intonation screw interfere with the string which is the problem with these bridges. The string comes over the saddle almost horizontally and, as a result, makes very little contact with the saddle which contributes to the puny tone a lot of people give out about. Once the string has a clear line of travel it's in contact with a lot more of the surface area of the saddle, better transfer, win win win.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,815 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    Ok so now you have it sorted J, you need to go play some Television. It's the rules! :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    Television? Hell no, I need to get some Danny Gatton chops together :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭rcaz


    Wouldn't one of the main reasons you had such a rubbish time with it be that Jazzmaster bridges were designed to work with Jazzmaster vibratos? With the Bigsby, the break angle over the back of the bridge is way too severe, it wasn't designed for that. A Jazzmaster wouldn't have the strings running over the back of the bridge like on this Tele.

    And what guage strings are you using, Doc?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,592 ✭✭✭Ancient1


    Doctor J wrote: »
    Jazzmasters, Jaguars and Mustangs all have it...

    Well, going by what you said and how bridge designs have evolved since, I can't think of a single reason why they're still producing them except for the nostalgic and "wow, sixties" factor.
    El Pr0n wrote:
    And what guage strings are you using, Doc?

    I wouldn't be surprised if the crazy bastard strung up that poor Tele with 13s, except he calls them "man strings". :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭fish-head


    Doctor J wrote: »
    Television? Hell no, I need to get some Danny Gatton chops together :pac:

    Better chuck out the computer and come back in ten years and tell us how you're doing!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭punchdrunk


    Ancient1 wrote: »
    Well, going by what you said and how bridge designs have evolved since, I can't think of a single reason why they're still producing them except for the nostalgic and "wow, sixties" factor.



    I wouldn't be surprised if the crazy bastard strung up that poor Tele with 13s, except he calls them "man strings". :D

    I've got 14's on the jag :D

    and a wound G :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,135 ✭✭✭✭John


    Heavy strings are the only strings.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,815 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    I'm so brewtal, I use 45's! :cool:















    .... on my basses :p


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,848 ✭✭✭✭Doctor J


    El Pr0n wrote: »
    Wouldn't one of the main reasons you had such a rubbish time with it be that Jazzmaster bridges were designed to work with Jazzmaster vibratos? With the Bigsby, the break angle over the back of the bridge is way too severe, it wasn't designed for that. A Jazzmaster wouldn't have the strings running over the back of the bridge like on this Tele.

    And what guage strings are you using, Doc?

    Hmmm, my experience with them is limited but the fella on the Mastery bridge site suggests this is a common problem with them and seems to be making a living out of it being a common problem. Given that when set at a reasonable action the saddles come barely 1mm over the bridge baseplate I can see it being an issue on the others too, even if the angle isn't as steep from the other trem. The strings would nearly want to be coming in horizontally to avoid the screw and baseplate but then you're back to the whole strings popping out issue. I don't believe you should be forced into using a gauge of strings by bad design, you set the guitar up the way you want it to play and it should be able to accomodate any gauge of string. If anyone with a Jag/Mustang/Jazzmaster has pics of theirs I'd be interested to see it. I don't know how many threads I've seen here with people whining about that spiral bridge. The point of this thread being that it's fixable. Plus, the idea of the bridge balancing on two sharp points is laughable, how can it ever be correctly intonated or stay in tune when the bridge moves back and forth at will with no constant zero point? The only thing keeping it in place being the pressue of the strings pushing down on the saddle which is a recognised weakness too. So while the angle over the back might not be quite the same, the height adjusters coming loose due to lack of downward pressure, them being too high in the first place and the saddles being too low, the rattling saddles, the small surface are the strings make contact with which leads to popping out and the floating bridge issues can all be at least improved on non-Bigsby guitars with this bridge using the steps above.

    That's a set of 10's on there :o There'll be 11's on long term, I wanted to test it with a lighter gauge of string, the same strings that were on it when it buzzed, rattled and went out of tune so gloriously. Don't have any 11's in the house at the moment to set it up proper like. Shame on me :pac:

    I've got 14-68's on the Empire though :P


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