Corporate Greed during the Tiger Decade

Eglinton · 26-01-2009 11:08PM #1

I'm interested to hear what people suggest doing about the fat cats of this country - The likes of Sean Fitzpatrick of Anglo Irish and repayment of his loans. Will anything actually happen to them? Will the Government cop out or will they enact legislation that will bring these sort of people to account (pardon the pun!)

Sean Fitzpatrick is at the top of of my list for investigation.

But there's also the people who paid staff below minimum wage to their workers and this hilarious paradox of this CEO who simultaneously set up a Non profit charitable organisation thats preaches corporate responsibility whilst not paying his own staff for the last few months http://exstaffinlimbo.blogs.ie/

Will Ireland change it's attitude to White Collar cronyism?

Biggins · 26-01-2009 11:12PM

Eglinton wrote: »

...Will Ireland change it's attitude to White Collar cronyism?

No. Long story short.
The two main parties would lose out on contributions and they know it big time!
They are not going to shoot themselves in the foot or bite the hand that feeds it!

galwayrush · 26-01-2009 11:14PM

I get annoyed when i see people in high places get rewarded for their inefficency and greed. Massive golden handshakes and massive pensions when they should be in jail, or at least stripped of the financial rewards.
Latest one is the financial regulator who can step down next week with one amazingly generous pension plus lump sum. He didn't do his job, what the **** is he being rewarded for?

. FAS and the HSE two more examples.:mad:

pablomakaveli · 26-01-2009 11:26PM

No. We never learn. It'll continue. Politicians might make noise about cutting this out but nothing will be done. Cronyism just seems to be embedded in Irish politics and getting rid of it just seems unlikely.

BornToKill · 27-01-2009 12:21AM

An Auto de Fé. A procession down O'Connell Street then tie 'em to the Spike - finally get some use out of it. It won't solve the recession but it will make everyone feel better. Televised instead of the St. Patrick's Day parade (which will be cancelled for lack of funds).

farva · 27-01-2009 12:52AM

Its all about risk and reward, I agree with you that when someone takes a risk, gets a reward and then it goes t1ts up that they should be held accountable. Anglo were taking far greater risks than the other banks and it has gone t1ts up so in my view there should be a fair few of the people in Anglo's commercial lending department let go.

In my opinion, I see no problem with someone earning say €1m a year if they are invaluable to a firm and generating massive revenues for their employer. For example an investment banker working their ass off for up to 20+ hours a day to close deals, they are generating the firm money and should earn aportion of what they make! Traders can make a fixed percentage of what they make, which in London can/(could) run into millions but the second that you stop making money/start losing money your out on your ass!

I know that some people wont agree with me on that one.

FlutterinBantam · 27-01-2009 01:12AM

I agree with you on that.

They ,however, shouldn't ride roughshod over corporate rules and regulations either.

FlutterinBantam · 27-01-2009 01:14AM

galwayrush wrote: »

I get annoyed when i see people in high places get rewarded for their inefficency and greed. Massive golden handshakes and massive pensions when they should be in jail, or at least stripped of the financial rewards.
Latest one is the financial regulator who can step down next week with one amazingly generous pension plus lump sum. He didn't do his job, what the **** is he being rewarded for?. FAS and the HSE two more examples.:mad:

That's it, bottom line ,we cannot afford the Public Service we have built up.

The_Minister · 27-01-2009 02:24AM

Eglinton wrote: »

The likes of Sean Fitzpatrick of Anglo Irish and repayment of his loans. Will anything actually happen to them? Will the Government cop out or will they enact legislation that will bring these sort of people to account (pardon the pun!)

:rolleyes:It is unconstitutional to make something retrospectively illegal.
If what they did was legal we can do nothing, if it was illegal then we might do something. But it is doubtful that Fitzpatrick and chums could be incarcerated, since what they did may have been (by the skein of their teeth) legal.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 27-01-2009 03:22AM

Well I don't think the regulator is to blame so much. It's impossible to forecast an economic crisis like we have. We can go on past trends. An economy will have a natural recession, it cannot go on forever. So I don't hold the regulator accountable.

I do believe that the fat cats, the CEO's and directors of the companies that helped bring down the economy should be held accountable for their actions.

When something goes wrong, people always look for someone to blame. Makes you feel better doesn't it? But it doesn't make the problem go away. I wish these threads would stop... like really soon.

bleg · 27-01-2009 03:28AM

/gets pitchfork ready

tony1kenobi · 27-01-2009 03:33AM

bleg wrote: »

/gets pitchfork ready

Is it kicking off? I dunno what we're all on about but I'm up for a lynching.

FlutterinBantam · 27-01-2009 11:03AM

And while you are at it round up all these tradesmen who fleeced the public in the boom years and show the rope to them too.

I'll kick the chair!!

mountainyman · 27-01-2009 11:22AM

The_Minister wrote: »

:rolleyes:It is unconstitutional to make something retrospectively illegal.

The people are sovereign and through the constitution can make retraoctive law.

Jaysoose · 27-01-2009 11:22AM

Samson Purple Surgeon wrote: »

Well I don't think the regulator is to blame so much. It's impossible to forecast an economic crisis like we have. We can go on past trends. An economy will have a natural recession, it cannot go on forever. So I don't hold the regulator accountable.

I do believe that the fat cats, the CEO's and directors of the companies that helped bring down the economy should be held accountable for their actions.

When something goes wrong, people always look for someone to blame. Makes you feel better doesn't it? But it doesn't make the problem go away. I wish these threads would stop... like really soon.

The regulator did not do his job, he either knew and looked after his cronies or he was incapable of doing his job to the most basic level. Either way he is partially to blame and should not be rewarded with a payoff and pension.

Frankie Lee · 27-01-2009 11:28AM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

And while you are at it round up all these tradesmen who fleeced the public in the boom years and show the rope to them too.

I'll kick the chair!!

No, no, no!! Focus on the lynching of the fat cats first, we can't get distracted. Don't forget about them dodgy solicitors and most members of the PD's, I say we cook Mary Harney like a pig and put an apple in her mouth and put her on one of those spinaround thingies over a fire of old ESRI quarterly forecast reports.

biko · 27-01-2009 11:38AM

Hopefully The Citizen will bring them to mob justice.

27-01-2009 11:45AM

Jaysoose wrote: »

The regulator did not do his job, he either knew and looked after his cronies or he was incapable of doing his job to the most basic level. Either way he is partially to blame and should not be rewarded with a payoff and pension.

If the loans were hidden from auditors, hard to do.. how the fuk is the financial regulator gonna know?

Adam · 27-01-2009 11:50AM

biko wrote: »

Hopefully The Citizen will bring them to mob justice.

not enough bold, needs moar!!!

Frankie Lee · 27-01-2009 11:50AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the loans were hidden from auditors, hard to do.. how the fuk is the financial regulator gonna know?

They were all in cahoots, thats another shower to be done away with, the top people in the big four accountancy firms, should make them work as slave labour, digging ditches would be good punishment for them.

MIN2511 · 27-01-2009 11:54AM

We are a country filled with corruption, the leaders bend side ways to make things happen. Every country is like this, there is nothing we can do about it.
We are never going to get a Goverment 100% dedicated to doing things by the book.

Frankie Lee · 27-01-2009 11:55AM

MIN2511 wrote: »

We are a country filled with corruption, the leaders bend side ways to make things happen. Every country is like this, there is nothing we can do about it.
We are never going to get a Goverment 100% dedicated to doing things by the book.

Exactly why we need mob rule.

el_tiddlero · 27-01-2009 12:36PM

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Exactly why we need mob rule.

can anyone lend me a copy of the mob rule handbook??

SEPT 23 1989 · 27-01-2009 12:52PM

Ochlocracy (Greek: οχλοκρατία or okhlokratía; Latin: ochlocratia) is government by mob

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 27-01-2009 12:58PM

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

And while you are at it round up all these tradesmen who fleeced the public in the boom years and show the rope to them too.

I'll kick the chair!!

Were you bitching 10 years ago when you had to pay higher prices for the service? Don't blame the tradesman, they only charge what stupid people pay.

Jaysoose wrote: »

The regulator did not do his job, he either knew and looked after his cronies or he was incapable of doing his job to the most basic level. Either way he is partially to blame and should not be rewarded with a payoff and pension.

Nah, my experience is that he does do his job. Can you give any cases where he didn't? Where he neglected his obligation to regulate? Remember, we could afford 100% pensions a few years back.

The_Minister · 27-01-2009 03:23PM

mountainyman wrote: »

The people are sovereign and through the constitution can make retraoctive law.

The Constitution specifically forbids it, so it would involve a referendum.

A referendum which would never pass, because by and large the Irish people are not facists.

Nolanger · 27-01-2009 05:36PM

Samson Purple Surgeon wrote: »

It's impossible to forecast an economic crisis like we have.

Actually many of us knew this would happen:

overlending by the banks
100% mortgages
new housing estates being built on the outskirts of crap towns in the middle of nowhere
oversupply of training courses such as law with little prospects of finding work
too many foreigners coming here
overcharging by the retail stores

Samson Purple Surgeon wrote: »

An economy will have a natural recession, it cannot go on forever.

This is not a natural recession - it's a disaster.
Won't go on forever but will last years.

mountainyman · 27-01-2009 06:32PM

The_Minister wrote: »

The Constitution specifically forbids it, so it would involve a referendum.

A referendum which would never pass, because by and large the Irish people are not facists.

Where laws which should have been made were not made because of political corruption or where a law was made because of political corruption there can be no injustice in framing a law with retroactive effect (with approval by referendum) to redress the injustice.
MM

mountainyman · 27-01-2009 06:33PM

Samson Purple Surgeon wrote: »

Were you bitching 10 years ago when you had to pay higher prices for the service? Don't blame the tradesman, they only charge what stupid people pay.

Nah, my experience is that he does do his job. Can you give any cases where he didn't? Where he neglected his obligation to regulate? Remember, we could afford 100% pensions a few years back.

Ireland was described as the 'Wild West' by the EU a couple of years ago. Neary wasn't doing his job. His pension should be stopped.

stovelid · 27-01-2009 07:10PM

Typical threads during boom: meritocratic stuff about execs deserving a huge wage. Charlie and Bertie might be crooks, but sure, didn't they do the business for us. Burn the unemployed.

Typical AH thread during recession: pitchfork and torches stuff about execs and their huge wages. Charlie and Bertie are crooks. Burn the unemployed.

Capt'n Midnight · 27-01-2009 10:33PM

farva wrote:

In my opinion, I see no problem with someone earning say €1m a year if they are invaluable to a firm and generating massive revenues for their employer. For example an investment banker working their ass off for up to 20+ hours a day to close deals, they are generating the firm money and should earn aportion of what they make! Traders can make a fixed percentage of what they make, which in London can/(could) run into millions but the second that you stop making money/start losing money your out on your ass!

I know that some people wont agree with me on that one.

Traders should be told that if you loose money doing something illegal then we will pay 5% of that loss to the hitman. Far too many traders who have lost over a Billion and gotten away with a jail sentence that isn't a deterent judging by all the evidence.

Each million lost in revenue by a government can roughly be equated with a life being lost through things like health funding or road safety.

Corporate Greed during the Tiger Decade

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