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19/1/2009 Irish bank shares plummet this morning...

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Comments

  • #62
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,506 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    ManFromAtlantis wrote: »
    seems like a good name to me. :D

    well it can be yours for about €9.99 a year, surley worth a few quid in the years to come....can i be a silent partner.....to busy doing other stuff at the moment:)

    AIB@ 39 cent and BOI@ 31 cent....WHO SAID AIB LOOKED TEMEPTING YESTERDAY:rolleyes:


  • #63
    Mark200
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    AIB@ 39 cent and BOI@ 31 cent....WHO SAID AIB LOOKED TEMEPTING YESTERDAY:rolleyes:

    They did. Now they look even more tempting...


  • #64
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    If an ordinary punter such as myself wanted to buy some shares (risky I know, but it wouldn't be much) where can I go (preferably not online) to do so?


  • #65
    ManFromAtlantis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭ManFromAtlantis


    if u have an aib account i think its fairly straight forward just walk into a aib bank.
    otherwise trying the likes of davy stockbrokers , they say its easy, but i got the apploication form, took a look at it and gave up! if u come across a handy easy way i'll be listening.


  • #66
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Really, you can just walk into the bank and do it? Hmnn I'll be giving that a go tomorrow so.


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  • #67
    who007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 711 ✭✭✭who007


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    Really, you can just walk into the bank and do it? Hmnn I'll be giving that a go tomorrow so.

    IF you are an AIB customer and they set up an account for you to buy sheares - even at that I spoke to them earlier in Maynooth and was told they charge an exorbitant €100 transaction fee!!! :eek:


  • #68
    Fizman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,605 ✭✭✭Fizman


    Kintarō Hattori wrote: »
    If an ordinary punter such as myself wanted to buy some shares (risky I know, but it wouldn't be much) where can I go (preferably not online) to do so?

    You may have already been aware of it, but this thread may help:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054963350


  • #69
    Kintarō Hattori
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    Fizman wrote: »
    You may have already been aware of it, but this thread may help:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054963350

    I wasn't aware of that thread. I'll have a good read of it tonight, thanks.


  • #70
    BERarchtech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭BERarchtech


    :confused:ok well I have no shares and Im only starting out at looking into the whole thing. can someone explain what happens say if I have 1000e worth of shares in BOI and the state takes them over like anglo irish? are my shares wiped or will they be unaffected or what? in 10 years time could they be worth more?:confused:


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,079 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    BERarchtech wrote: »
    :confused:ok well I have no shares and Im only starting out at looking into the whole thing. can someone explain what happens say if I have 1000e worth of shares in BOI and the state takes them over like anglo irish? are my shares wiped or will they be unaffected or what? in 10 years time could they be worth more?:confused:

    The usual is for shareholders to be wiped out.


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  • #72
    0utshined
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,746 ✭✭✭0utshined


    redtom wrote: »
    So if ye have a coupla quid in BOI in plain old accounts and are starting to feel you don't trust them as far as you could throw them, where is a good place to put your money?

    The govt. have guaranteed deposits up to €100,000 so if you have <= that you'll be ok. I mean, you trust the govt. right? No chance of them bankrupting themselves...


  • #73
    Nehaxak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,717 ✭✭✭Nehaxak


    I'm seriously thinking about asking for my redundancy money in cash :eek:


  • #74
    BERarchtech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭BERarchtech


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The usual is for shareholders to be wiped out.


    so all my shares would be gone. just like that? and nothing I could do about it? how is that fair? :confused:


  • #75
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    BERarchtech wrote: »
    so all my shares would be gone. just like that? and nothing I could do about it? how is that fair? :confused:

    That's why the share price has gone down so low -- some people are unwilling to take that risk of the price going to zero. In the long term, it's probably unlikely, but there's always that chance. Shares always have a risk aspect to them.


  • #76
    BERarchtech
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18 ✭BERarchtech


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    That's why the share price has gone down so low -- some people are unwilling to take that risk of the price going to zero. In the long term, it's probably unlikely, but there's always that chance. Shares always have a risk aspect to them.


    true! but there's a good chance the state will end up doing to BOI what they did to Anglo and my potential shares would be gone. I cant see a time when there's no BOI or AIB but they might just be state owned and we'd all have nothing left to show??


  • #77
    Lump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭Lump


    In the paper today it appears that the government wouldn't nationalise BOI or AIB..... They know the banks are too important to the country. They'll offer loans/help/buy up to 49% of the shares.

    Linky: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0121/1232474671364.html


  • #78
    Shiny
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,259 ✭✭✭Shiny


    Lump wrote: »
    In the paper today it appears that the government wouldn't nationalise BOI or AIB..... They know the banks are too important to the country. They'll offer loans/help/buy up to 49% of the shares.

    Linky: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0121/1232474671364.html

    Share price is going up already on that announcement.

    I bought £100k worth of BOI shares on this site yesterday.

    Its only a monopoly money stock site so it isn't "real" money
    but everything else such as prices, commissions etc, is the same
    as a normal stock site.

    Its a good way to learn without loosing money.


  • #79
    dmcg90
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,731 ✭✭✭dmcg90


    49% of their shares? So the government must be giving them about 5 grand of a loan at this stage then?


  • #80
    galwayrush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,816 ✭✭✭✭galwayrush


    An oft repeated quote at the moment "What's the difference between Iceland and Ireland - 1 letter and about 6 months"


  • #81
    road_2_damascus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 125 ✭✭road_2_damascus


    Mark200 wrote: »
    How exactly do you go about buying shares...?


    Lets be honest, the chances of BOI or AIB going bust are extremely slim. We'll get out of this recession eventually. I'm seriously tempted to invest now, it's unlikely I'll ever get a better deal.

    they may not go bust, they'll probably merge, although dont rule out them both folding


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  • #82
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    road_2_damascus wrote: »
    they may not go bust, they'll probably merge, although dont rule out them both folding

    Yes, it's still extremely volatile. I think that there are a lot of businesses out there with loans and overdrafts that are just about ticking over at the moment. The ones that don't survive are going to be leaving these debts behind. In the meantime, the banking shares are going to be up and down like a whore's drawers. :eek:


  • #83
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    I can't see how either can survive with the amount of bad debts they probably have.

    I know I use the word probably there but if you think about all the 100% mortgages (and probably anyone with a mortgage more than 5 times their income) and developer loans of people now unemployed then you see why the house of cards can only fall down.

    Not that I'm fooking happy about it. Especially since they will try to take half the businesses in the country with them.


  • #84
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    brim4brim wrote: »
    I know I use the word probably there but if you think about all the 100% mortgages (and probably anyone with a mortgage more than 5 times their income) and developer loans of people now unemployed then you see why the house of cards can only fall down.

    Well they could repossess any properties that are in arrears, and rent them back out to the current "owners" at reduced (but longer term rates). If the owners don't continue to pay rent, then just put them on the rental market?

    Also, the banks have a lot more in their portfolio than just property. They also have a massive international base that will keep them going. Remember that BOI announced a "drop in profits" last October to a "mere" €650m for 6 months last November. That's still a lot of money!


  • #85
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Well they could repossess any properties that are in arrears, and rent them back out to the current "owners" at reduced (but longer term rates). If the owners don't continue to pay rent, then just put them on the rental market?

    Also, the banks have a lot more in their portfolio than just property. They also have a massive international base that will keep them going. Remember that BOI announced a "drop in profits" last October to a "mere" €650m for 6 months last November. That's still a lot of money!

    I suppose, I certainly haven't taken that into account. Still it is a matter of if that can offset the massive mistakes they've made on the domestic market.

    Don't know what they were thinking. It is really annoying.


  • #86
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    brim4brim wrote: »
    Don't know what they were thinking. It is really annoying.

    I guess a sign that the banks knew what was coming was when AIB sold their own properties and leased them back -- they knew that the property market was ready to collapse; they were just grabbing the last few euro while they could.

    And it isn't 100% the banks fault -- there has to be an aspect of personal responsibility to the whole affair. A lot of people took on several loans -- each one of which may be individually manageable, but the stress of all these loans combined becomes unmanageable. I haven't seen one - but do the credit-rating reports list all current outstanding loans (both secured and unsecured)?

    My take on it - to prevent issues like this happening in the future:
    1. When applying for a loan (including credit cards), ensure that you have to list your complete financial status (debts, dependants, etc.).
    2. If your circumstances change (e.g. you lose your job, get another mouth to feed, etc.), make it a legal requirement to notify any "variable credit" organisations (credit card companies, bank overdraft facilities, etc.) so that credit supply is controlled. Make the penalty for non-compliance severe enough to not make people "chance" it.
    3. Require the bank/credit card companies verify all possible information via a central credit-rating agency.
    4. If the applicant gets something wrong on their form, give them an immediate D- rating (don't know their own state - can't be trusted).
    After that, if the agency still gives them an unsecured loan with all the facts presented to them, and the debtor can't pay for whatever reason (after going via bankruptcy courts etc), then the creditor must swallow the debt.


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