The Brian O'Driscoll thread

Stev_o · 24-01-2009 01:40PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I was about to agree that I think the argument that forwards make better captains is stupid but then I tried to think of great captains who played in the backs as a counter arguement and I am struggling. George Gregan is the only one who came to mind straight away.

Augustin Pichot

tbaymusicman · 24-01-2009 01:42PM

i like him but think it should be paul o connels turn to captain ireland

ManofMunster · 24-01-2009 03:49PM

the back captains that spring to mind tend to be scrumhalves: pichot, gregan, galthie, nichol, farr-jones, edwards, howley and to a lesser extent dawson, van der westhuizen, yachvili. their physical proximity to the pack puts them in a better position to lead - and better gauge the physical ebb and flow of a game - than outside centre. in my opinion at least.

munster leinster schedule clash tomorrow. annoying.

tughfc · 24-01-2009 08:15PM

i would of said mortlock was a fairly good captain

24-01-2009 08:17PM

tughfc wrote: »

i would of said mortlock was a fairly good captain

As well as Tana Umaga

freyners · 24-01-2009 08:24PM

O'Driscoll shouldn't captain Ireland any more

O'Connell is by far a better captain but i would think if O'Driscoll was relieved of captains duty he would rediscovered that magic touch that used to make him the player he once was

He is still a brilliant defender though

RugbyFanatic · 24-01-2009 09:38PM

freyners wrote: »

O'Driscoll shouldn't captain Ireland any more

O'Connell is by far a better captain but i would think if O'Driscoll was relieved of captains duty he would rediscovered that magic touch that used to make him the player he once was

He is still a brilliant defender though

Out of interest who started this burden of captaincy on O'Driscoll malarky?

Has O'Driscoll ever admitted this or are people assuming? It wasn't a burden all those years he was playing some of the best rugby in the world the fact that he is not as good as he once was is nothing to do with the burden of captaincy and everything to do with age, heavy marking and a misfiring backline all around him

phog · 24-01-2009 10:13PM

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Out of interest who started this burden of captaincy on O'Driscoll malarky?

Has O'Driscoll ever admitted this or are people assuming? It wasn't a burden all those years he was playing some of the best rugby in the world the fact that he is not as good as he once was is nothing to do with the burden of captaincy and everything to do with age, heavy marking and a misfiring backline all around him

TBH, I never rated him a good captain, though he had big boots to fill after Woody. He was an exceptional player and still is a very good player, did have a dip in form but has pulled himself out of that rut.

To be even more honest I couldn't give fiddlers who's captain as long as Ireland gets back to winning ways. We've had an exceptional squad of players available for the last number of years and what have we won - 2 Triple Crowns and beat a few of the big guns in the NH and SH along the way, big deal, look at an average Wales team, they have 2 Grand Slams behind them in the same period.

Benny Cake · 25-01-2009 10:39AM

John_C wrote: »

O'Driscoll kicked the ball 5 times last weekend. 4 of them were very good kicks and one of them wasn't bad but was very short any easy to deal with.

Kicks from O'Driscoll have led to 2 of Leinster's tries in this years 'ken

O'driscoll should leave the kicking to those around him, he should know his strengths, and kicking aint one of them.............

old boy · 25-01-2009 04:38PM

the biggest prob with him as captain is that he is too quick to criticise on the pitch stringer in france, where od should have been in place to take the pass, having a go at bowe are two that comes to mind, sportspeople must NEVER ctiticise others on the pitch, applaud and encourage yes, I.M.O. he has lost pace, is loosing concetration, then having a go at others for their mistakes.

anonymous_joe · 25-01-2009 04:45PM

old boy wrote: »

the biggest prob with him as captain is that he is too quick to criticise on the pitch stringer in france, where od should have been in place to take the pass, having a go at bowe are two that comes to mind, sportspeople must NEVER ctiticise others on the pitch, applaud and encourage yes, I.M.O. he has lost pace, is loosing concetration, then having a go at others for their mistakes.

I disagree entirely. Criticism has to be a part of being a pro. If you can't take it, why play?

RugbyFanatic · 25-01-2009 04:49PM

old boy wrote: »

the biggest prob with him as captain is that he is too quick to criticise on the pitch stringer in france, where od should have been in place to take the pass, having a go at bowe are two that comes to mind, sportspeople must NEVER ctiticise others on the pitch, applaud and encourage yes, I.M.O. he has lost pace, is loosing concetration, then having a go at others for their mistakes.

:eek: Are we talking about the same pass?

I.M.O he is still one of Ireland's best players.

Podge_irl · 25-01-2009 04:49PM

old boy wrote: »

the biggest prob with him as captain is that he is too quick to criticise on the pitch stringer in france, where od should have been in place to take the pass

You're having a laugh with that. It was an appalling pass and Jesus himself couldn't have been in a position to stop the intercept.
And of course you should criticise people on the pitch - its knowing when to criticise and when to encourage that is the skill.

louthandproud · 25-01-2009 04:56PM

Podge_irl wrote: »

You're having a laugh with that. It was an appalling pass and Jesus himself couldn't have been in a position to stop the intercept.
And of course you should criticise people on the pitch - its knowing when to criticise and when to encourage that is the skill.

Knowing how to criticise on the pitch is also important, we all know it was an appalling pass, what came next wasn't much better.

Serenity Now! · 25-01-2009 04:57PM

old boy wrote: »

the biggest prob with him as captain is that he is too quick to criticise on the pitch stringer in france, where od should have been in place to take the pass, having a go at bowe are two that comes to mind, sportspeople must NEVER ctiticise others on the pitch, applaud and encourage yes, I.M.O. he has lost pace, is loosing concetration, then having a go at others for their mistakes.

Oh ffs.
Nobody has ever had a go onfield especially skippers? You've got to be taking the proverbial there.

RugbyFanatic · 25-01-2009 05:17PM

louthandproud wrote: »

Knowing how to criticise on the pitch is also important, we all know it was an appalling pass, what came next wasn't much better.

He criticised a player for a god awful pass on the pitch it was such a lapse of concentration on Stringer's part that he need to be waken up. O'Driscoll didn't go to the media after the game however and scapegoat Stringer or even mention the pass. I am sorry but a lot of people here obviously have never played serious rugby and seem to think that your captain should only encourage etc. and its such bull**** if your repeatedly making mistakes or are not in the game then your captain will make sure it doesn't happen again. This isn't U12s rugby.

RugbyFanatic · 25-01-2009 05:18PM

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Oh ffs.
Nobody has ever had a go onfield especially skippers? You've got to be taking the proverbial there.

He actually tried to blame O'Driscoll for the intercept so you can draw your own conclusions on that fact alone.

thehighground · 25-01-2009 05:19PM

Serenity Now! wrote: »

Oh ffs.
Nobody has ever had a go onfield especially skippers? You've got to be taking the proverbial there.

I've seen Contempomi rip into Sexton - and is one of the reasons why I think Sexton has obviously lost confidence imo and playing so badly.

As regards BOD having a go at Stringer at the world cup - that would not have inspired the confidence of the other 13 to take any risks on the pitch (because if you mess up, you will probably have your captain bawling you out in front of a couple of million people). And the other thing - it was unusual for him to do that, so he was obviously rattled. What is definition of a good leader .... keeps the head when all around are losing it ... BOD was the first to lose it there!

BOD great player - but just a good captain when everything is going well!

freyners · 25-01-2009 05:23PM

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

:eek: Are we talking about the same pass?

I.M.O he is still one of Ireland's best players.

i could name 5 better players on the irish squad than o'driscoll
O'gara
O'Connell
Kearney
Wallace
Reddan

RugbyFanatic · 25-01-2009 05:24PM

thehighground wrote: »

I've seen Contempomi rip into Sexton - and is one of the reasons why I think Sexton has obviously lost confidence imo and playing so badly.

As regards BOD having a go at Stringer at the world cup - that would not have inspired the confidence of the other 13 to take any risks on the pitch (because if you mess up, you will probably have your captain bawling you out in front of a couple of million people). And the other thing - it was unusual for him to do that, so he was obviously rattled. What is definition of a good leader .... keeps the head when all around are losing it ... BOD was the first to lose it there!

BOD great player - but just a good captain when everything is going well!

Sorry your so far off. If you ever watch Leinster whenever Fitzgerald tries something smart and it doesn't quite come off O'Driscoll always applauds him. I don't think anyone on that pitch thought ''Oh **** better play it safe just in case the big, bad O'Driscoll shouts at me'' more so ''I better ****ing concentrate on my game''

He wasn't rattled he was pissed off how a player could come into a world cup game with such little concentration and make such a ridiculous error.

Edit : Your off on Sexton by the way. Nothing to do with Contepomi who actually took him under his wing more to do with Cheika bringing in Howell

sock puppet · 25-01-2009 05:25PM

freyners wrote: »

i could name 5 better players on the irish squad than o'driscoll
O'gara
O'Connell
Kearney
Wallace
Reddan

Wtf?

RugbyFanatic · 25-01-2009 05:25PM

freyners wrote: »

i could name 5 better players on the irish squad than o'driscoll
O'gara
O'Connell
Kearney
Wallace
Reddan

I could only name 3 currently playing better than O'Gara and they are

Kearney
Wallace
O'Connell

Theres not a chance O'Gara or Reddan are playing better.

Podge_irl · 25-01-2009 05:28PM

thehighground wrote: »

As regards BOD having a go at Stringer at the world cup - that would not have inspired the confidence of the other 13 to take any risks on the pitch (because if you mess up, you will probably have your captain bawling you out in front of a couple of million people).

Its not as if Stringer was trying something special that didn't quite come off. It should have been a bog standard pass and he completely screwed it up. If the rest of the team are that nervous about being shouted at then they shouldn't be professional sportsmen.

freyners · 25-01-2009 05:28PM

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

I could only name 3 currently playing better than O'Gara and they are

Kearney
Wallace
O'Connell

Theres not a chance O'Gara or Reddan are playing better.

I'll presume you meant o'driscoll there
O'driscoll is great defender but hes lost all his attacking power.
'gara is nearly central to all of irelands/munster scores so of course hes a better player
Reddan has more of an attacking game than o'driscoll

Noopti · 25-01-2009 05:30PM

freyners wrote: »

i could name 5 better players on the irish squad than o'driscoll
O'gara
O'Connell
Kearney
Wallace
Reddan

Reddan?? :pac:

Serenity Now! · 25-01-2009 05:32PM

thehighground wrote: »

I've seen Contempomi rip into Sexton - and is one of the reasons why I think Sexton has obviously lost confidence imo and playing so badly

I've seen Nick Farr-Jones almost kick Campese up the heiny in a Bledisloe test. Bad for his confidence? Was it balls. Great players don't let the yips get to them. Ordinary players do and fade away. If the growl of a senior teammate was the reason for Sexton's form, then its up to him to get over it and prove himself.

thehighground wrote: »

As regards BOD having a go at Stringer at the world cup - that would not have inspired the confidence of the other 13 to take any risks on the pitch (because if you mess up, you will probably have your captain bawling you out in front of a couple of million people). And the other thing - it was unusual for him to do that, so he was obviously rattled. What is definition of a good leader .... keeps the head when all around are losing it ... BOD was the first to lose it there!

Its called pressure and it affects every sportster out there. As you will no doubt remember, the RWC in 2007 was not exactly a great occasion in Irish rugby union history. Even great leaders onfield such as Gregan or Johnson have flipped off.

Podge_irl · 25-01-2009 05:34PM

freyners wrote: »

'gara is nearly central to all of irelands/munster scores so of course hes a better player
Reddan has more of an attacking game than o'driscoll

Your first argument is simply ridiculous. Of course O'Gara is central to a lot of scores, he's the fly-half and both Munster and Ireland play a game that very much depends on him as a playmaker (somewhat too dependent on him imo). You could equally say that BOD has scored more tries then O'Gara so is obviously a better player. They're both way too simplistic arguments.
Your second argument is unfathomably nonsensical.

Serenity Now! · 25-01-2009 05:34PM

freyners wrote: »

'gara is nearly central to all of irelands/munster scores so of course hes a better player

You're comparing apples and oranges (to coin a phrase).
O'Gara is a pivot. He's usually the first back outside the ruck area to get the ball so he obviously gets involved. He's also the kicker.
:rolleyes:

RugbyFanatic · 25-01-2009 05:37PM

freyners wrote: »

I'll presume you meant o'driscoll there
O'driscoll is great defender but hes lost all his attacking power.
'gara is nearly central to all of irelands/munster scores so of course hes a better player
Reddan has more of an attacking game than o'driscoll

LOL.

Also how can you say the top try scorer in the Heineken Cup has lost all his attacking power?

louthandproud · 25-01-2009 05:37PM

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

He criticised a player for a god awful pass on the pitch it was such a lapse of concentration on Stringer's part that he need to be waken up. O'Driscoll didn't go to the media after the game however and scapegoat Stringer or even mention the pass. I am sorry but a lot of people here obviously have never played serious rugby and seem to think that your captain should only encourage etc. and its such bull**** if your repeatedly making mistakes or are not in the game then your captain will make sure it doesn't happen again. This isn't U12s rugby.

I've played AIL rugby, I accept criticism needs to be meated out, but I didn't like the nature of it in that particular case. It was probably caused by frustration more than anything, and I doubt it did anything positive for Stringer on that occasion. However I wouldn't be judging BO'D's captaincy on that one incident.

My own opinion on the matter is that if he wants to remain on as captain he should be allowed to do so, the only reason I can think of for dropping him would be if his place in the team weren't guaranteed, and although he might not have the pace he had a few years ago, I think his place is pretty assured.

Hence only BO'D should be deciding on weather he want to be captain for another year or not. Weather he wants it, I have no idea. Does it affect his game being captain? I seriously doubt it.

The Brian O'Driscoll thread

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