The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

monkey9 · 22-01-2009 10:48PM

joe123 wrote: »

The only reason were so close to the top in years is quite simply Chelsea and United are under performing.

We've been underperforming as well, yet we've managed to beat the above two.
Maybe another reason we're near the top is because we have only lost one league game all season. We've only lost three league games in 2008.
And Rafa according to some just can't seem to grasp the Premiership!

mayordenis · 22-01-2009 10:48PM

joe123 wrote: »

You wouldnt like robinho at Liverpool?? For ****s sake...:cool:

True maybe your right about lucas against newcastle he had a good game but seriously one game hasnt made him. Watch him next time, his passing at times is woeful.

And having no strikers left on (kuyt would striker more fear into a brick wall than he would any centre backs) was bascially giving Everton the incentive to just come at us.

As much as I like Benitez and dont want him out of the club I do take off my rose tinted glasses at times and ask myself "Rafa what the **** are you at".

And if you havent asked yourself this then your lying to yourself.

The only reason were so close to the top in years is quite simply Chelsea and United are under performing.

wow great points really well thought out

Robinho would be great but we couldn't afford him - end of that discussion

Lucas is a ****ing excellent talent and if you can't see that, it's not everyone else's problem, it's yours, his passing at times is sublime.

Oh good some Kuyt bashing - fair play.

At times I'm not 100% sure of every decision the man makes but that's true of every manager because I'm not him. He's very much stuck between a rock and a hard place, Robbie had a terrible game, and Torres had his 1st start (read that again 1st start since injury) and was knackered, what if he had of left them on and they still got the goal because our attack would of been knackered and useless - you would still find a stick to beat Rafa with.

Last time I'm going to say this Liverpool Like Chelsea and United are also underperforming - and missing our best player for most of the season thus far with a good helping of boardroom turmoil in there.

Why do you feel the need to only look at the ****ing negatives? please guys ban me now.

mayordenis · 22-01-2009 10:51PM

Warper wrote: »

He buys an awful lot of average players, players that simply will not improve the team. He also seems to be still unsure of what his best team is? I mean what manager excludes a centre-half for the Champions League and then proceed to play him in every match even when he has a full squad to choose from? Ya im talking about you Sami. So all in all is he really the man to guide Liverpool to the Premiership - I think not.

Bar Gerrard and Carra the whole squad is esentially new - are you saying it hasn't improved?

CivilServant · 22-01-2009 11:00PM

BastardPrince wrote: »

pretty sure you are wrong here and it is Mourinho who is being looked at to replace ferguson. cue another fail image...

I wish there was a no thanks button so I could put it under all your posts this thread.

mormank · 23-01-2009 07:44AM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

The point is that the way things have gone for us (other top 4's results), we have not taken advantage, and we won't get a better chance.

Skrtel injury was not a problem as we had Agger in cover, unlike last season when Agger got injured and Hyppia had to fill in. Torres was a huge loss, but pushing Gerrard up front made up for this.

I wouldn't usually reply to a sad post like yours, but it raises an interesting point: Liverpool's league positions under Benitez.

It is a fact that Rafa came out this season admitting that his policy of rotation was a failure. Took him long enough!

Also, before the Chelsea game he was talking about defending deep etc., only for Gerrard to rightly undermine him by saying that other teams have put all their men behind the ball against Chelsea and it hasn't worked, and that it was time to take the game to them. Also, there was the comedy of playing Gerrard in all those different positions and expecting him to be the best left or right winger in the world. We're lucky that Gerrard wields such a strong influence.

We haven't challenged for the league under Rafa because of his misguided tactics. Now that we have been lucky enough to get in pole position, he is messing it up. Plonker!!!

Stoke. Lucas. Kuyt.

how od you make this point?? i hope you were laughing when yu wrote this. if simply pushing gerrard up front makes up for losing out on possibly the best striker on the planet right now why did we bother buying him in the first place instead of just pushing gerrard up front all along!! total dross. reading this thread makes my head hurt and my ears bleed. complete tripe being spoken here and im a pool fan that is quite unsure about rafa's ability to ever win a league title with his current tactics...

Warper · 23-01-2009 12:47PM

mayordenis wrote: »

Bar Gerrard and Carra the whole squad is esentially new - are you saying it hasn't improved?

Thats is exactly what i am saying - prove to me how they have improved -
They say the league table doesnt lie so here is their finishing position for the last number of years

07-08 - fourth
06-07 - third
05-06 - third
04-05 - fifth -(Rafa's first season)
03-04 - fourth
02-03 - fifth
01-02 - second

Go figure - Liverpool have not looked capable at any time since Rafa took over of winning the League. Improved - dont make me laugh.

kida · 23-01-2009 12:54PM

Warper wrote: »

Thats is exactly what i am saying - prove to me how they have improved -
They say the league table doesnt lie so here is their finishing position for the last number of years

07-08 - fourth
06-07 - third
05-06 - third
04-05 - fifth -(Rafa's first season)
03-04 - fourth
02-03 - fifth
01-02 - second

Go figure - Liverpool have not looked capable at any time since Rafa took over of winning the League. Improved - dont make me laugh.

Ah Here, don't be raing on their parade

The Chessplayer · 23-01-2009 01:06PM

Boggles wrote: »

In hindsight selling Alonso would have been a bad idea.

As for Martin O'Neill, Liverpool could do alot worse, then again they could do alot worse than Benitez, Ramos comes to mind.

Unbelievable the way Rafa made a public show of Alonso during the ill-fated Barry saga. I just wonder could he not try and conduct himself with more dignity, the old Liverpool way. Thankfully Alonso stuck around.

MO'N is a steady pair of hands, no doubt...but it's true that there is no point in getting rid of Rafa and getting another unknown quantity. Premiership experience is paramount.

Mr Alan · 23-01-2009 01:09PM

Warper wrote: »

Thats is exactly what i am saying - prove to me how they have improved -
They say the league table doesnt lie so here is their finishing position for the last number of years

07-08 - fourth
06-07 - third
05-06 - third
04-05 - fifth -(Rafa's first season)
03-04 - fourth
02-03 - fifth
01-02 - second

Go figure - Liverpool have not looked capable at any time since Rafa took over of winning the League. Improved - dont make me laugh.

i'm really biting my tongue here.

but i'll do this sensibly.

2004/2005-58 points (Rafas first season) ****e squad-Champions League final

2005/2006-82 points (out of Europe early) improved squad concentrates entirely on league (also notches up FA cup win) and finsishes with our clubs record PL points tally.

2006/2007-68 points (CL Final,points thrown towards seasons end,ask Neil Warnock about this)-squad improves again, attaining CL qualification at a canter while coming within a gee hair of a CL win.

2007/2008-76 points (while also getting to a CL semi final) improved squad competes better on all fronts and puts in another improved league performance.

all the while adding players like Alonso,Keane,Torres,Skrtel,Agger,Reina & Mascherano

are you really saying you cant see any improvement between this team that regularly competes as near the best in Europe & the team that Rafa inherited?

are you really saying you cant see the improvement?

The Chessplayer · 23-01-2009 01:17PM

mormank wrote: »

how od you make this point??

I accept my point about Torres wasn't great, but it is a fact that Gerrard's new, more advanced, role has been a revelation...and Stevie has really excelled this season in that position, which has slightly negated Torres's absence.

Hasn't been a bed of roses for Keane, but Rafa hasn't made it easy for him...in his attempts to turn Robbie into a new Dirk Kuyt. A seasoned pro in the premiership, you would have to ask questions as to how Rafa deploys Keane. I hope to God that senior management at Liverpool have been hauling Benitez over the coals over his buffoonish behaviour.

MO'N with our resources would be well clear at the top. Moyes is another very good manager, but there would be doubts as to whether he could handle the pressure at Anfield. Would be a mighty sickener to the toffees though...

:cool:

zing · 23-01-2009 01:23PM

Any improvement is relative really. Our league position may not have improved significantly year on year but when you look at any overall improvement to the team you've also got to look at it in relation to how the teams that have finished ahead of us have also improved. There's no denying that they have also strengthened their sides during that period.

I do believe we have improved but that we're still effectively playing catch up as the others are also improving so are always a step or two ahead of us. The goal posts themselves are a moving target here.

eagle eye · 23-01-2009 01:29PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I accept my point about Torres wasn't great, but it is a fact that Gerrard's new, more advanced, role has been a revelation...and Stevie has really excelled this season in that position, which has slightly negated Torres's absence.

Hasn't been a bed of roses for Keane, but Rafa hasn't made it easy for him...in his attempts to turn Robbie into a new Dirk Kuyt. A seasoned pro in the premiership, you would have to ask questions as to how Rafa deploys Keane. I hope to God that senior management at Liverpool have been hauling Benitez over the coals over his buffoonish behaviour.

MO'N with our resources would be well clear at the top. Moyes is another very good manager, but there would be doubts as to whether he could handle the pressure at Anfield. Would be a mighty sickener to the toffees though...

:cool:

:rolleyes:

So Martin O'Neill who has never won a League would be miles ahead with the money Liverpool has. The fact that he has just as much money at Villa does not seem important to you.

Frankie Lee · 23-01-2009 01:32PM

First of all criticism of Kuyt is unfair, he works his socks off and creates a lot of space for Gerrard and Torres to hurt teams. However Pennant was always a better option for breaking down defensive teams.

Letting Crouch leave was a big mistake also, if had the service in the box he would get from Riera he would have scored a lot this season.

Lucas is a good prospect and again the abuse he gets is completely unfair.

Another mistake in the transfer market was the signing of Degen at right back when it is clear he is 4th choice behind Arbeloa, Carragher and Skrtel.

On the topic of the comparison between Benitez and O'Neill, comparing the achievements between Leicester and Valencia is a bit much and O'Neill could not have been any more successful at Celtic. I'd rate the level of improvement at Villa greater than the improvement at Liverpool under Benitez greater. I think O'Neill is a better manager capable of getting more out of players.

spockety · 23-01-2009 01:37PM

Frankie Lee wrote: »

Letting Crouch leave was a big mistake also, if had the service in the box he would get from Riera he would have scored a lot this season.

Crouch wasn't 'let go'. He left.

Another mistake in the transfer market was the signing of Degen at right back when it is clear he is 4th choice behind Arbeloa, Carragher and Skrtel.

He was free.

I'd rate the level of improvement at Villa greater than the improvement at Liverpool under Benitez greater. I think O'Neill is a better manager capable of getting more out of players.

Exhibit A : Djimi Traore's Champions League medal.

The Chessplayer · 23-01-2009 02:25PM

Frankie Lee wrote: »

First of all criticism of Kuyt is unfair, he works his socks off

How many times have I heard united fans say something along the lines of "maybe liverpool will win the league if dirk kuyt keeps running his socks off".

PiE · 23-01-2009 02:41PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

I just wonder could he not try and conduct himself with more dignity, the old Liverpool way.

Hahahaha. Now I know you're taking the micky swiss. Well played though, for a moment there I actually thought you were a Liverpool fan.

monkey9 · 23-01-2009 03:50PM

This is a ridiculous thread, but it's sunk to new depths of lunacy with claims that the Liverpool squad is no better than that of 2004!!!

Third_Echelon · 23-01-2009 04:03PM

The Chessplayer wrote: »

<snip>

Moyes is another very good manager, but there would be doubts as to whether he could handle the pressure at Anfield. Would be a mighty sickener to the toffees though...

:cool:

Here... hands off Moyes... :P

I think the man has enough tact not to do the dirt

Boggles · 23-01-2009 04:27PM

spockety wrote: »

He was free.

No such thing as free, wages, medical, bills, insurance, also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

eagle eye · 23-01-2009 04:39PM

Boggles wrote: »

, also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

Yeah thats been a huge problem at United over the years.:rolleyes:

PiE · 23-01-2009 04:39PM

Boggles wrote: »

also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

Which FM guidebook did you read that in?

Boggles · 23-01-2009 04:40PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah thats been a huge problem at United over the years.:rolleyes:

Well just last year Pique, Rossi.

Boggles · 23-01-2009 04:41PM

PiE wrote: »

Which FM guidebook did you read that in?

You know PiE when I typed that I knew someone would say that, fair play. :pac:

eagle eye · 23-01-2009 04:43PM

Boggles wrote: »

Well just last year Pique, Rossi.

Yeah thats two and you forgot Eagles as well. But United have an enormous roster and to say about an extra player at Liverpool is nonsense really. They can easily turf one out on loan just like United.

PiE · 23-01-2009 04:45PM

Boggles wrote: »

You know PiE when I typed that I knew someone would say that, fair play. :pac:

So... wait. You know you're typing rubbish yet you post it anyway?

Boggles · 23-01-2009 04:47PM

PiE wrote: »

So... wait. You know you're typing rubbish yet you post it anyway?

So wouldn't agree with any of it?

PiE · 23-01-2009 04:56PM

Oh sure, I completely agree with the first part. Mainly because it's hard to argue with a pedantically mundane statement that everyone in the history of the world, ever, is already aware of.

Your actual original input to the post is rubbish though.

Boggles · 23-01-2009 04:57PM

PiE wrote: »

Oh sure, I completely agree with the first part. Mainly because it's hard to argue with a pedantically mundane statement that everyone in the history of the world, ever, is already aware of.

Your actual original input to the post is rubbish though.

Thank you for your honesty, I will take it and board and try do better. :pac:

monkey9 · 23-01-2009 05:19PM

Boggles wrote: »

No such thing as free, wages, medical, bills, insurance, also unnessary competition for limit places drags down morale.

No he was free as in he wasn't doing anything else that day so he just decided 'ah sure, i may as well sign for Liverpool seeing as i'm lounging about'

Ardent · 23-01-2009 05:52PM

mayordenis wrote: »

Lucas is a ****ing excellent talent and if you can't see that, it's not everyone else's problem, it's yours, his passing at times is sublime.

Lucas may be a decent player but you're getting totally carried away there - he wouldn't make it into the teams of our rivals and he doesn't add anything we haven't already got to ours.

The Problem with Rafa Benitez...

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