Inset Stove

foxirl · 11-11-2008 11:00PM #1

Hi,
Moved into a new house about 2 months ago. It has an open fire which has been lit about 10 times but doesn't give out much heat. Decided to put in an inset stove. Was looking at the Riva 40 or Esse 300. Anyone have any feedback on it?

As for installing it, is it a big job. Is there a need to remove the existing fire surround to install it.

Fox

Carawaystick · 11-11-2008 11:14PM

I've been looking to see about a inset stove for a while, seems to be way more stoves that sit proud of the fireplace than inset ones.

I saw some place in Kildare selling them (riva) for several grand, which seems a bit steep.

let us know if you find out more.

foxirl · 11-11-2008 11:22PM

This is an image of the current fireplace
http://picasaweb.google.com/foxirl/RecentlyUpdated?authkey=wyAnmhehgFE#5267528094730584754

You can get the Riva 40 for about 900 stg in the UK.

I dont mind spending the money on the stove as it will pay for itself over the next few years but I just want to find out how much hassle it will be to install. Like will I have to take down the existing surround

fmcc · 11-11-2008 11:58PM

Hi Fox you dont need to take down surround you have two choices of inset.
Chinese type Tr4 about €550 just push againest the existing fireback or more like the esse 350/ riva 40 expect to pay about 1300 and 1600 respectivly.

both require the fireback to come out and then it depends on the height of your lentil/gather hood. on the riva there is a spigot that you can connect to your flue via adapter if the height is there other wise you need to flaunch off all 4 sides of the stove when its installed sloping them up so there are no flat spots for ash/soot to gather. You do this by removing the baffles and sliding your hand up and around its labour intensive. make sure the sides are well packed and insulated as well.

the riva may show a little of your existing frame that may need to be painted or ordere the wide frame. theres also the stockton 7 inset convector for around 1300 from the same makers of the riva but with a higher output. These stoves are excellent and are selling very well at present we have had nothing but good reports from all of them even the cheap chinese cast which for the money is an excellent little stove but if its not in stock expect a 6-8 week lead time on a lot of them. there are some other models from other companies available but may not be as common in ireland just yet.

foxirl · 12-11-2008 11:10AM

Hi fmcc,

Was hoping you would reply as I had read some of your earlier posts which were very informative.

My room is about 18' by 16' so which inset stove would you reccomend.
I know that the stockton 7 has a higer output but I am not sure if I have the depth in my fireplace for it.

In relation to the fireback can it just be taken out with a hammer and chissel. ie smash it out.

The house is only recently built so can I just connect to the existiong flue with a flue adapter or do I need to buy a flue liner.

Lastly can you PM me the details of your shop as if its close I might as well purchase from you as anybody else. Was goin to go to UK but might be too much hassle.
Thanks

Eurorunner · 12-11-2008 11:34AM

foxirl wrote: »

My room is about 18' by 16' so which inset stove would you reccomend.

Theres a calculator here

foxirl · 12-11-2008 11:42AM

Cheers Eurorunner

fmcc · 12-11-2008 02:46PM

Hi fox glad you find the posts informative.
The fireback needs to be broken out like you said with hammer/chisel but there should be mix of sand/lime behind it some or all of which may come away if it does it need to be repacked when installing the stove.
The stockton does fit into most standard opes you would be surprised how much depth is there when the fireback and fill is removed.

You dont need a liner for the flue if the height is there use the adpater and double skin flexi or rigid flue if the lentil/gatherhood is too low to fit these you can only flaunch off the tops and sides with a sand lime mix. If using flexi it needs to be secured by self tappers or something as it can be pulled apart by a cleaning brush if not done securely.

Biggest prob is getting these guys at present I had 5 stocktons expected on a delivery from stovax today and 2 landed!!!
I,ll pm the details of the shop but we may be a bit far as we are in the north west.

foxirl · 12-11-2008 04:42PM

Thanks fmcc.

Vidcon · 30-12-2008 04:18PM

Hi,
I'm thinking of fitting one of these too.

Fmcc or anyone that has a tr4: is there any information about this stove online?, is it a convector like the Riva 40 and esse 300?, 4kw?, efficiency? multi fuel?
If anyone has a link to it I would be gratefull as I can't find anything about it.
Or maybe someone that has one could scan a few pages of the booklet that comes with it.

One other question about the insert stoves, is the area where the stove meets the marble insert sealed to prevent heat being drawn back up the chimney.

Thanks

demanufactured · 31-12-2008 02:12PM

Id wonder why your fire dosent throw out much heat it looks like a decent fire opening , do you only light a small fire?
Also what fuel are you using?

fmcc · 01-01-2009 08:03PM

Hi Vid we have sold a lot of tr4s they are ok but not a huge heat output as the firebox is very small. they do convect and block off the chimney well but only for a small room. I had to change one of them to a bigger stove for someone as they felt they were not getting enough heat from it but it was a pretty big room. these stoves are not fully sealed to the granite/marble insert and even if thyere were there wll always be a bit of air running through as there are other smaller vents in stove also. They are about half the price of the other stoves though.

Dilbert75 · 05-01-2009 09:56PM

Our front room is approx 4m x 5m x 2.1m, so requires about 3kW. Green Stoves build a 3kW insert which (I believe) doesn't require removal of the fireback. Local shop here is selling it for €499 - they've only sold one so far but haven't had any complaints back. Anyone heard of them or any experience of them?

ludermor · 21-01-2009 04:32PM

Sorry to hijck this thread!
I have recently fitted a Esse 350 into my new build. I fitted it pretty tight into the opening ( less than an inch all around the box) with the opening into a flue starter ( ie no flue coming from the unit itself).
It doesnt seem to be working that productively, the fire starts up very quickly but burns very quickly also. I have reduced the levels on the levers after the fire is going as per the manuals but it doesnt have a great effect. There doesnt seem to be that much heat coming through the vents either and there is more heat thrown out if the door is left open.
Am i doing something wrong either in the installation or operation? I rang the supplier ( Murphys in galway who are very helpful generally) and the thing he could add was the box not been packed tight but some material, im not sure how i could do that in such a tight space!

fmcc · 21-01-2009 05:35PM

HI Lud, theres not much you can be doing wrong in operation unless your fuel is poor like wet wood. The stove should not be used with door open as this defeats the purpose but I,m sure your just trying everything at present. The guys in Murphys are prob right. Even if there is an inch or half inch space all round the stove that will affect it. You can use something like vermiculite which is a granule type insulation whcih you should be able to pour/scoop into that space by taking out the baffle in the roof of the stove and filling it from there. three elbows can help in this operation. you could also try packing with rockwool but the vermiculite is a better job. Finally did you slope up the sides to leave no flat spot for soot build up? Slope up a mix of sand lime cement 7:1:1 from the spigot right up to the flue gather at 45 degrees or steeper. Not only does this avoid chimney fires in the future from a soot build up but if its open at present most of your heat will be going up the flue too and this mix will act as another insulator.

ludermor · 21-01-2009 11:14PM

fmcc wrote: »

HI Lud, theres not much you can be doing wrong in operation unless your fuel is poor like wet wood. The stove should not be used with door open as this defeats the purpose but I,m sure your just trying everything at present. The guys in Murphys are prob right. Even if there is an inch or half inch space all round the stove that will affect it. You can use something like vermiculite which is a granule type insulation whcih you should be able to pour/scoop into that space by taking out the baffle in the roof of the stove and filling it from there. three elbows can help in this operation. you could also try packing with rockwool but the vermiculite is a better job. Finally did you slope up the sides to leave no flat spot for soot build up? Slope up a mix of sand lime cement 7:1:1 from the spigot right up to the flue gather at 45 degrees or steeper. Not only does this avoid chimney fires in the future from a soot build up but if its open at present most of your heat will be going up the flue too and this mix will act as another insulator.

Hi fmcc,
Am i right in thinking that if i take out the baffle at teh top i should be trying to fill all the gaps around the sides of the stove? I have fairly stout arms so i get what your saying bout the 3 elbows

No i didnt slope the sides there is a flue gatherer above the stove ( think that the word! i was originally going to have a open fire there) so once i have filled the gaps should i try and fill up to the slope on the gatherer and moe or less leave no open space at the back of the stove?
Cheers again fmcc

fmcc · 22-01-2009 10:13AM

Hi Lud yeah 3 elbows help if you can get any packing in and push the stove in it might reduce the amount you need to fill through the baffle. You do need to slope up to the gather though as this other wise will be a flat spot where ash/soot can gather and lead to chimney fires at a later date as a normal sweep of the chimney wont get it out so imagine the flue gather in reverse/upside down and thats kinda what your trying to achieve on all 4 sides but it should make the heat from the stove a lot better. Anyone we put one in for is literally raving about them.

ludermor · 22-01-2009 10:36AM

Fmcc,
Thanks for the advice, it will be a nice project for me one of these weekends.
Just one more question about sealing around the stove at the wall. The stove came with a rope but im not sure where it was supposed to be fitted, i tried to pack it around the outside face of the stove but it was leaving a gap , is it to be fitted tot eh sides of the stove and is it supposed to be completely airtight? Last week during the storms there was quite a big howling noise going into vent at the top ( i am on the Atlantic coast so i was getting the brunt of the wind) is this normal?

fmcc · 22-01-2009 10:59AM

Yeah the rope can be used to seal but normally we dont use it as we get a good seal to the fireplace. You can get a whistleing noise with high winds which should according to esse calm down after a few months of settling in.
The stoves will never be completly airtight as there are some air spaces in the stove that allow air through even if you have all vents of the stove closed but it does close off 95% of air loss.

ludermor · 22-01-2009 11:36AM

Cheers for that.

foxirl · 23-01-2009 09:06PM

Stove should be arriving next week so will post up pics once its done.

On a seperate matter bought a thermometer today and temp in room was 15 degrees at 6PM. I then switched on the heating (Gas boiler heating radiators) and its now 8 and the temperature in the room is only 20. Still seems cold. Anyone know what temperature in a room should roughly be in most houses fot it to be comfortable.

Measured the room and its 15 foot by 12.
One door in the room to hall and one large window 5 by 6
There is one double radiator measuring 4.5 by 1.5

Hopefully the stove will sort out the heat but does teh above seem right to you lot.

Connacht · 24-01-2009 12:43PM

Hi,
The size of your room doesn't matter. 20 to 21 degrees should be warm enough. But it's a personal choice.
fmcc, as you can see from my username, I'm in the West. Would you please pm me your shop details also. I've been on the lookout for an insert stove to put into my 12-year old house's open fireplace (40 cm wide) for two years now. I did try Murphy's at one stage and found them totally unhelpful, but that was 2 years ago.
My room is 8 m x 4 m, with a 'dividing' archway half way down the 8 m. Each 4 m x 4 m area has a double width radiator in it. My wife says it's never warm enough.
Thanks.

fmcc · 24-01-2009 02:43PM

Thanks for your interest Connacht pm sent.

TheHairyFairy · 08-02-2009 06:17PM

Also interested in an inset stove, however would need it to run around 14-15 radiators, some of those are small and around half or so are doubles? Is there anything in the market that will do the above and not cost me an arm and a leg?

fmcc · 09-02-2009 12:11PM

Hi hairy haven't seen an inset to run that many rads get a heat load calculated by ana instaler so then you know you need either 60,000 btus or 18kw whichever but at least you will know. I think for that many though a freestanding may the only option.

Pique · 10-02-2009 03:37PM

I was looking into this myself and have narrowed it down to these 2 stoves.

Aarow Stratford Ti40B

Charnwood SLX45i (Complete overkill for us)
Charnwood SLX20 (much more like it!)

Can anyone tell me the average output of a Grant 16" back boiler in an open fireplace as to compare it to the outputs for these stoves ?

aledoux · 10-02-2009 10:09PM

Would you consider installing an Stovax Riva 40 Inset Stove to be a DIY job ?
I am planning to purchase one from Northern Ireland and install it myself following the installation instructions available on the Stovax website.

Is it a bad idea ?

Thanks.

Dilbert75 · 11-02-2009 10:07PM

That's a nice looking stove - if you don't mind me asking, where are you buying from and how much?

firepl · 23-02-2009 09:10PM

foxirl wrote: »

Hi,
Moved into a new house about 2 months ago. It has an open fire which has been lit about 10 times but doesn't give out much heat. Decided to put in an inset stove. Was looking at the Riva 40 or Esse 300. Anyone have any feedback on it?

As for installing it, is it a big job. Is there a need to remove the existing fire surround to install it.

Fox

hi fireplace man here both are very good but riva lot more exp

Vidcon · 25-02-2009 11:39PM

fmcc thanks for the advice back in December.
I went with the tripp tr4 and after a small fitting issue (now resolved) its working better than expected. I'd recommend the tr4 to anyone thinking of getting an inset stove. Its in a room 5x4m, load it twice an evening and the room is a constant 24 degrees after about an hour. We end up opening the door to let the heat out into the hallway.

hashey · 05-04-2009 09:36PM

hi all
found this thread as I was looking for info on an insert stove-we have just changed from a gas riva to a solid fuel riva 66 and decided to install it ourselves. as we wanted the insert to be at the top of the opening we fitted a stainless steel adaptor 6inch - 8inch to the stove and directly to the 8inch flue. seems to work fine except the wall above the stove gets extremely hot and has cracked the plaster- the gap around the stove is approx 1 inch and we filled with rockwool- what can we do to stop the wall heating up as im sure that it will eventually crack the blocks and flue as well

Inset Stove

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