Irish Aid and the recession

j1smithy · 14-01-2009 02:59AM #1

I was looking at the budget that Irish Aid had in 2007, apparently the Irish government gave away €813m euro to developing countries. While this has to be commended, does anyone else think that charity should begin at home? The public sector is looking at a pay cut of €2billion, so the inevitable question must be asked, should we stop, or severely cut back on what is noble but we clearly cannot afford?

Pen1987 · 14-01-2009 04:07AM

As far as I'm aware (possibly wrong now) aid works in loops. We donate to "little old Africa" and the EU gives "little old us" some stuff.

kowloon · 14-01-2009 04:13AM

Would hate to be the overpaid minister who proposes that cut.

The Saint · 14-01-2009 04:13AM

While the money could be put to some use here it is not going to potentially save 1000's of lives like it would in Africa. I don't think it's an excessive amount and would like to see us reach the UN target of 0.7% of GDP. From what I can work out in 2007 (the last years I could find a number for) we gave just over 0.4% of GDP in aid. It's always easier to say that we could use the money here but people were saying that in the good times too regarding the health service and such. It will make a marginal difference here. It will save lives in Africa.

kowloon · 14-01-2009 04:33AM

Full agreement with The Saint, our government lack the will or are too inept to put the money to good use anyway.

lostexpectation · 14-01-2009 05:03AM

consider it works on pecetnage in the long run it doens't matter if we in a recession.

silverharp · 14-01-2009 09:24AM

The Saint wrote: »

It will save lives in Africa.

If you have been putting money in your box for the "black babies" going back to god knows when , have you been getting a good bang for your buck? it seems to be one of those situations where things wouldnt be worse if they hadnt received a penny in aid.

The Saint · 14-01-2009 01:38PM

silverharp wrote: »

it seems to be one of those situations where things wouldnt be worse if they hadnt received a penny in aid.

Except there'd be a hell of a lot more people dead of starvation and disease not had they not recived aid.

j1smithy · 18-01-2009 12:13AM

The Saint wrote: »

Except there'd be a hell of a lot more people dead of starvation and disease not had they not recived aid.

An awful lot of that money is misspent anyway. perhaps it would be better put to use if it were cut in half and all given to NGO's rather than corrupt governments.

tallaght01 · 18-01-2009 12:33AM

I don't think we should cut back what we give to developing countries. There's much less important things we can cut back on in Ireland.

And even though, when we're in a recession, you hear things like my dad saying he's gonna hold off buying a new car this year, but he's not too stressed by it. Compare his situation with a family of kids who've just lost their parents to AIDS, and the 12 year old girl is about to start working the streets to survive, while her brothers are getting involved in violent crime to get money.

Our recession really doesn't compare to their "economic downturn".

I do see the OPs point, but I just think there are other ways of saving money.

Capt'n Midnight · 18-01-2009 12:33AM

where is the poll option to increase aid ?

some other countries will cut back aid, and there will be less trade with the recipient countries so it would be needed more

ciano1 · 18-01-2009 12:38AM

Double the Aid

Karma will thank us !!:D;)

therewillbe · 18-01-2009 12:46AM

How much money do these countries need? Save ourselves first.We have a list of needy charities here at our own doorstep.They seem to do nothing with the Billions that have gone over the years from all over the world.Allright in good times, but in bad,look after your own.

fryup · 18-01-2009 12:55AM

you know back in the time of live aid, when this country was on its knees financially ireland donated the highest amont per capita in the world on the day

Tricity Bendix · 18-01-2009 01:08AM

j1smithy wrote: »

An awful lot of that money is misspent anyway. perhaps it would be better put to use if it were cut in half and all given to NGO's rather than corrupt governments.

Irish Aid tends to spend its money very well, from what I can see. The money isn't just handed over to governments. Projects are evaluated and monitored.

Having said that, I once drank a pint of Guinness paid for by Irish Aid. It was after a MDG lecture in Trinity, and we all went out to the pub after.

thoker · 18-01-2009 01:09AM

think their Gov is any better than our shower of ****?.

the make us like amateurs when it comes to corruption?:o

K-9 · 18-01-2009 01:10AM

therewillbe wrote: »

How much money do these countries need? Save ourselves first.We have a list of needy charities here at our own doorstep.

YEP, Ethiopia is far less needy than Ireland.

Tricity Bendix · 18-01-2009 01:29AM

thoker wrote: »

think their Gov is any better than our shower of ****?. the make us like amateurs when it comes to corruption?:o

Again, its not like we just send Vietnam a lump of cash to do with as they see fit. The money is spent in partnership with the governments of a few selected countries, on projects designed and evaluated to help as many people as possible.

18-01-2009 01:39AM

Africa does not need money - Africa needs political reform.

Nigeria has diamonds, oil a tropical climate where you can harvest a crop every 3 months..........
Africa also has alot of guns and corruption that hinders growth.

"Peace and Prosperity" isnt just a fancy phrase.

brianthebard · 18-01-2009 01:45AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Africa does not need money - Africa needs political reform.

Nigeria has diamonds, oil a tropical climate where you can harvest a crop every 3 months..........
Africa also has alot of guns and corruption that hinders growth.

"Peace and Prosperity" isnt just a fancy phrase.

Africa has a lot of other countries sticking their nose in African business, giving money under the name of aid, but in return forcing markets to be opened up, flooding the African market with goods the other countries need to get rid of, which swamps local industry and causes more misery and suffering. Those guns and corruption are maintained by various governments around the world who want to keep exploiting the resources of Africa, like in the Congo. Its great to look at things simplistically and be in a position to same "silly governments" or "stupid corruption, they need to sort themselves out", its another when we are preventing them from doing so. Even as Ireland gives all that money to Africa for instance, it takes far more with the other hand, under the banner of the neo colonialist EU. African fishing rights have been sold for a pittance to the EU, and while they would've been better used by the African nations themselves in order to develop and earn money, there's not much can be done if the EU tells you they'll call in your debts or cut off the aid tap if they aren't given what they want.

Dob74 · 18-01-2009 01:57AM

I have heard nothing but bad stories about NGO's doing work in africa. If they are getting taxpayer money we should know how exactly the money is being spent. I am sure there is plenty of room for salary reductions amongst the staff in these NGO. I dont want to be paying for new alloys on the directors merc

tallaght01 · 18-01-2009 01:59AM

Dob74 wrote: »

I have heard nothing but bad stories about NGO's doing work in africa. If they are getting taxpayer money we should know how exactly the money is being spent. I am sure there is plenty of room for salary reductions amongst the staff in these NGO. I dont want to be paying for new alloys on the directors merc

Problem is....to get the best guys running the charity, you gotta pay the wages.

I was involved with a few charities, who all paid peanuts. And they got monkeys working for them.

A top CEO will have a knowledge of fundraising and advertising/marketing. He'll also have lots of contacts, and negotiating experience. You don't get these guys for 40k a year.

professore · 18-01-2009 02:03AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

I don't think we should cut back what we give to developing countries. There's much less important things we can cut back on in Ireland.

And even though, when we're in a recession, you hear things like my dad saying he's gonna hold off buying a new car this year, but he's not too stressed by it. Compare his situation with a family of kids who've just lost their parents to AIDS, and the 12 year old girl is about to start working the streets to survive, while her brothers are getting involved in violent crime to get money.

Our recession really doesn't compare to their "economic downturn".

I do see the OPs point, but I just think there are other ways of saving money.

Hello ? 80 women a year here are going to die because of the decision not to go ahead with the cervical cancer vaccination. And cuts in the health service will cost lives here too.

K-9 · 18-01-2009 02:08AM

professore wrote: »

Hello ? 80 women a year here are going to die because of the decision not to go ahead with the cervical cancer vaccination. And cuts in the health service will cost lives here too.

Ah, we'll save €8 million if we put our minds to it.

And HSE Administrators cost our lives. 7/8 Health Boards amalgamated into the HSE for efficiency, not one loses a job.

No point blaming others for our feck ups.

tallaght01 · 18-01-2009 02:08AM

professore wrote: »

Hello ? 80 women a year here are going to die because of the decision not to go ahead with the cervical cancer vaccination. And cuts in the health service will cost lives here too.

and 45 million people in developing countries have HIV.

African girls have more chance of being raped than of learning to read.

I agree our situation is bad, but in context it's not the worst.

Dob74 · 18-01-2009 02:14AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

Problem is....to get the best guys running the charity, you gotta pay the wages.

I was involved with a few charities, who all paid peanuts. And they got monkeys working for them.

A top CEO will have a knowledge of fundraising and advertising/marketing. He'll also have lots of contacts, and negotiating experience. You don't get these guys for 40k a year.

When the gov is coughing up the money they dont need these hotshots. I worked for a charity when i was a student and they where no charity. I doubt any money got to the people who needed it. It was swallowed up by the people running it.

tallaght01 · 18-01-2009 02:23AM

Dob74 wrote: »

When the gov is coughing up the money they dont need these hotshots. I worked for a charity when i was a student and they where no charity. I doubt any money got to the people who needed it. It was swallowed up by the people running it.

Because in your opinion, you thought your charity paid too much to it's head honchos, doesn't mean all charities are a waste of time :P

You can't really be saying we don't need effective aid agencies, are you?

Mont · 18-01-2009 02:35AM

Yes we should give more money to the people in Atari and hope they come out with another funky T-shirt

professore · 18-01-2009 02:48AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

and 45 million people in developing countries have HIV.

African girls have more chance of being raped than of learning to read.

I agree our situation is bad, but in context it's not the worst.

Yes I agree with your last sentence - but surely we should solve issues of life and death in our own country first ? If every government sorted out the problems in its own country first there would be far less problems.

On the first two please quote sources - not that I don't think there is a huge crisis in Africa but you need sources to back these stats up, otherwise they are in the "everybody knows" category.

Mont · 18-01-2009 02:51AM

tallaght01 wrote: »

and 45 million people in developing countries have HIV.

African girls have more chance of being raped than of learning to read.

I agree our situation is bad, but in context it's not the worst.

Ya but they dont know that stat. cause they cant read - so stop making things worse, if they knew about that they would be all paranoid

syklops · 18-01-2009 02:57AM

the year i was born, the population of ethiopia was 33million. Despite millions dying from starvation, the population is now about 75 million, and Ethiopia is still getting aid.

I think the aid needs to change to something other than just money.

Irish Aid and the recession

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