What exactly is it about Enda Kenny that makes us see him as a poor potential leader?

Biggins · 14-01-2009 10:41PM

* He comes across the media as a tame poodle without any bite.

* He rambles on about issues where he disagrees with FF (which is fair enough) but does not give equivalent oppositional strategic proposals in confrontation of a given situation.
(His reasons for this might be that he does not want to give too much away before he might get into power however this is NOT the time to be playing party politics)

* He is quick to give soundbites but disappears rapid if you ask him for something in detail or exactness.

* He got the job at the time I suspect because no one wanted to step up then to stand in the firing line.

* His ability to evoke the public into some form of united opposition is floundering uselessly like a piece of paper bouncing from place to place in the wind - going where ever the direction of the wind is blowing from minute to minute - he going with it!

* His credentials are generally unknown. What are his exact qualifications? (this should apply to all leaders - What qualifies skills-wise them to be placed in government office?)

* He never effectively faces down Cowan & Co in the Dail but backs off every time.

* He nit picks over semantics when in fact he should be sticking to the principles, causes and solutions of any one single problem.

* He should pick a direction, a policy, an idea and stick with it

* He offers no clear clarification as to what, where and when he is different from what has gone before and what is possibly coming next - which still looks the same...

and that's just for starters!

smellslikeshoes · 14-01-2009 10:43PM

Think its generally just how stiff he is as a person, say what you like about Bertie and even Cowen but they just have more animated characters compared to Enda Kenny.
After saying that though I'll still be voting Fine Gael.

OPENROAD · 14-01-2009 10:44PM

brianthebard wrote: »

None, he's a decent guy, works hard for his constituency and would do a good job in power. Certainly couldn't be worse than Brian "jowls" Cowan.

Or, theory no.2; He's a culchie and the people that hate him are townies. This is backed up by every townie who's ever spoken about him saying they don't like him.

Sadly, like it or not, image/chamisma plays an important role and he is sadly lacking, I believe FG are trying to play up a team approach strategy thus taking the attention away from Kenny and onto FG as a whole which will do them some good. Richard Bruton has come across extremely well in recent months and will do FG no harm come an election, many would like to see him as leader though the drawback is that he would not be in Finance.

flanzer · 14-01-2009 10:44PM

3 words ........

Sign the contract

Muppet. Tried to go all hip with a new messy hairdo to attract the younger voters in the last election. Doesn't articulate himself as well as Richard Bruton

banshee_bones · 14-01-2009 10:45PM

brianthebard wrote: »

None, he's a decent guy, works hard for his constituency and would do a good job in power. Certainly couldn't be worse than Brian "jowls" Cowan.

Or, theory no.2; He's a culchie and the people that hate him are townies. This is backed up by every townie who's ever spoken about him saying they don't like him.

+1

brianthebard · 14-01-2009 11:09PM

Biggins wrote: »

* He comes across the media as a tame poodle without any bite.

* He rambles on about issues where he disagrees with FF (which is fair enough) but does not give equivalent oppositional strategic proposals in confrontation of a given situation.
(His reasons for this might be that he does not want to give too much away before he might get into power however this is NOT the time to be playing party politics)

You must be watching different news stations, and not the one's where he makes good sound points in debates, and is capable of having a verbal tussle with anyone on the other side of the dail. He also provides plenty of alternatives, look at the stuff he's said about qangos. There's a plan in place ready to be started on day one. FF still don't have a plan, for anything.

* He is quick to give soundbites but disappears rapid if you ask him for something in detail or exactness.

* He got the job at the time I suspect because no one wanted to step up then to stand in the firing line.

And he managed to bring the party back from failure to win 20 extra seats and did very very well in the european and locals. Just because there was no other clear contender doesn't mean he hasn't done a good job.

* His credentials are generally unknown. What are his exact qualifications? (this should apply to all leaders - What qualifies skills-wise them to be placed in government office?)

WTF? here now this is fox news anti obama nonsense now. What exactly do you need to know? He's been leader for long enough, if you don't know what his previous job before politics was or what role he had in the last FG coalition government then its your own fault and you shouldn't be spouting off on something you don't know about.

* He never effectively faces down Cowan & Co in the Dail but backs off every time.

* He nit picks over semantics when in fact he should be sticking to the principles, causes and solutions of any one single problem.

* He should pick a direction, a policy, an idea and stick with it

* He offers no clear clarification as to what, where and when he is different from what has gone before and what is possibly coming next - which still looks the same...

and that's just for starters!

Baseless assertions that are in no way provable all of them! Tell the truth, you just plain don't like FG. That's not a bad thing, I don't like or vote for them either. But I'm at least balanced in saying so.

Biggins · 14-01-2009 11:09PM

I'm not second guessing the original OP, but if they are looking for a lovefest for Enda, he won't find it here.

Honest to god - if I was Enda and I wanted to the leader of this country, there is a number of things I would do first.

1. Fire - right now - his PR man. and if he hasn't got one - GET ONE!

2. Take some lessons from the PR people that get the likes of Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, ect, elected.

3. Stay on subject. Hammer, hammer, hammer on one subject days on end into Cowans face daily till the bloated garbage has nothing to do but give proper answers if only to shut him up!

4. He should stop changing the latest attack on the opposition to what ever is blowing in the wind that day or just before - then do number 3.

5. Get a wardrobe that actually makes him look powerful. Not go around in light suits that make him look like its been handed to him from his father in the 1960's

6. Get himself continuously photographed with world leaders discussing world problems. I don't mean a quick across EEC speed trip. Sitting down at lenght with those in REAL power, the bankers (lenders, the money owners, the movers and shakers).

7. Fire who ever is cutting his hair. SERIOUSLY.

8. Take speech lessons. (I'm not saying this to belittle him). He HAS to come across as powerful, strong and charismatic. Also he has to adopt on the Irish and world stage an attitude of "DON'T FCUK WITH ME!!!" and make that attitude come across by backing it up by word and action.

9. Fire his soundbite speech writers. He sounds god damn awful.

10. Get his groundbase of local party workers out on the doorsteps right now and start talking to the people. FG should be chasing us - not us chasing everyone one else (if we are lucky to even see them!) for answers.

He would be the nicest person in the world but bloody hell - nice is not what we want or is need in the Dail - its the equivalent of a pitbull threatening to spring into action every time the frak-ups mess up. It will at the least, keep them all on their toes!

I as a voter want to see a genuine nice guy getting in - I'd vote for Enda if he came across as an effective strong change but in that he clearly fails so far.

...he managed to bring the party back from failure to win 20 extra seats and did very very well in the european and locals. Just because there was no other clear contender doesn't mean he hasn't done a good job.

He didn't do it, people voted for FG last time because they were peed off with FF. As FG was the only other viable choice, they dumped their votes on him.

WTF? here now this is fox news anti obama nonsense now. What exactly do you need to know? He's been leader for long enough, if you don't know what his previous job before politics was or what role he had in the last FG coalition government then its your own fault and you shouldn't be spouting off on something you don't know about.

I might know his credential but who else out there does, are they in the majority enough to give him the votes to power???

...Tell the truth, you just plain don't like FG. That's not a bad thing, I don't like or vote for them either. But I'm at least balanced in saying so.

The OP asked a question - I gave an answer - am I biased? Feck no. I'll give my (probably) useless thoughts on any of the other crappy **** out there. That includes Fianna Fail, SF and The Greens...

OPENROAD · 14-01-2009 11:13PM

brianthebard wrote: »

You must be watching different news stations, and not the one's where he makes good sound points in debates, and is capable of having a verbal tussle with anyone on the other side of the dail. He also provides plenty of alternatives, look at the stuff he's said about qangos. There's a plan in place ready to be started on day one. FF still don't have a plan, for anything.

And he managed to bring the party back from failure to win 20 extra seats and did very very well in the european and locals. Just because there was no other clear contender doesn't mean he hasn't done a good job.

WTF? here now this is fox news anti obama nonsense now. What exactly do you need to know? He's been leader for long enough, if you don't know what his previous job before politics was or what role he had in the last FG coalition government then its your own fault and you shouldn't be spouting off on something you don't know about.

Baseless assertions that are in no way provable all of them! Tell the truth, you just plain don't like FG. That's not a bad thing, I don't like or vote for them either. But I'm at least balanced in saying so.

Do you have a FG connection?

thelordofcheese · 14-01-2009 11:23PM

So, while most of us are in agreement that FF time in power should be up, we're also going to shit on the only alternative because the current leader..... isn't aesthetically pleasing?

AH never ceases to astound me.

brianthebard · 14-01-2009 11:24PM

OPENROAD wrote: »

Do you have a FG connection?

I'm a socialist.

legendal · 14-01-2009 11:25PM

That is all.

Biggins · 14-01-2009 11:27PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

So, while most of us are in agreement that FF time in power should be up, we're also going to **** on the only alternative because the current leader..... isn't aesthetically pleasing?

AH never ceases to astound me.

So what, by that reasoning, we just vote in the (supposed!) second best just because its there in the queue!
Somethings never change!

brianthebard · 14-01-2009 11:27PM

Biggins wrote: »

6. Get himself continuously photographed with world leaders discussing world problems. I don't mean a quick across EEC speed trip. Sitting down at lenght with those in REAL power, the bankers (lenders, the money owners, the movers and shakers).

He's already been doing that, again you aren't watching.

He didn't do it, people voted for FG last time because they were peed off with FF. As FG was the only other viable choice, they dumped their votes on him.

So he is in no way to be praised for remaking the party, earning seats in the GE, LE and EE? Get outta it! The votes FG won didn't come from FF seats for the most part, you're spouting again.

I might know his credential but who else out there does, are they in the majority enough to give him the votes to power???

The OP asked a question - I gave an answer - am I biased? Feck no. I'll give my (probably) useless thoughts on any of the other crappy **** out there.

Um, yes? What sort of question is that? The information is there to be had, if you don't think the meeja have told the poor people of Ireland (and clearly you don't think they can inform themselves :rolleyes: ) then its not his fault. Why don't you do your bit for the spread of information by telling the good people of boards what he did previously, and thus prove your original point that he is unknown to be nonsense?

Davidius · 14-01-2009 11:31PM

brianthebard wrote: »

I'm a socialist.

Seeing as socialism is exactly the same as terrorism and communism I'm going to assume you're here to bring down democracy, steal our freedoms from us and possibly eat our children?

Biggins · 14-01-2009 11:31PM

legendal wrote: »

[IMG][/img]http://www.icecreamireland.com/images/Caughtwic/Enda-sm.jpg

This alone from a PR perspective is dire. Sorry but it is.
PR photo mentality of maybe kissing babies, holding ice creams and grinning constantly for the camera does not do well for the man.

I might WANT him to take over, we need someone to take over but that someone needs to get their act together in todays more media awareness population.

brianthebard: I'm sorry if you don't like my answers - a question was posed - I like the rest, answered.
I don't hate the man, I don't like the man, on him alone I am truly neutral.
I list where his possible PR faults lie.

He should be able to get himself elected at the next election.
Anyone should IF they get their act together effectively.

OPENROAD · 14-01-2009 11:35PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

So, while most of us are in agreement that FF time in power should be up, we're also going to **** on the only alternative because the current leader..... isn't aesthetically pleasing?

AH never ceases to astound me.

Don't you mean the country as opposed to just AH. As a whole not just in Ireland image,charisma, call it what you want plays an important part in elections,how leaders come across and put across policies is crucial in winning votes, sad but true. Richard Bruton has been excellent in the last few months, speaks well,comes across very well. Have seen very little of Kenny on the media in the last few months, is their a reason for this?

thelordofcheese · 14-01-2009 11:37PM

Biggins wrote: »

So what, by that reasoning, we just vote in the (supposed!) second best just because its there in the queue!
Somethings never change!

You're constantly complaining about the current government. If FF are as bad as you say then surely any change would be an improvement.
*sigh*
Sometimes i'm convinced that Ireland deserves Fianna Fáil.

brianthebard · 14-01-2009 11:39PM

Davidius wrote: »

Seeing as socialism is exactly the same as terrorism and communism I'm going to assume you're here to bring down democracy, steal our freedoms from us and possibly eat our children?

Hmm, well seeing as this is AH....
Yes socialism is abolutely the same as terrorism. Actually socialists are 200% more terrorist than terrorists. FACT.

Biggins; if you don't want to like him fair enough. Just make your points real. I've shown you the flaws and you have no rebuttal.

Muggy Dev · 14-01-2009 11:40PM

Events a number of weeks ago involving Enda were very telling.

Despite having the luxury of not being under any significant pressure at this time,Enda denounced a FF TD´s suggestion,on national radio, that all members of the Oireachtas should take a pay cut as "populist nonsence".Two days later he stood up at a FG press conference and declared that he himself was going to take a voluntary cut in salary.All this in front of his senior colleagues, none of whom were aware of his intentions in advance.

To be honest,I don´t think there is anything of substance there.

Blush_01 · 14-01-2009 11:41PM

I'm still sickened over the political tit-for-tat that went on in the lead up to the last GE.

Enda could do with taking a leaf out of Bertie's book and manufacturing some roguish charm for himself. He doesn't have to sacrifice his integrity (if he has any) and become Bertie, but he's like my old secondary school principal at the moment - and the most interesting thing about him was the mole on his cheek. Enda could be carved out of bog oak, he's so rigid. He doesn't instil any confidence in his abilities as a politician because he appears disconnected from himself, never mind everyone else. Regardless of anything else, he comes across like Pat Kenny on a bad day - wooden and inanimate.

Yes, it's pathetic that politics can be reduced down to a popularity contest, but that's effectively what happens.

Biggins · 14-01-2009 11:41PM

thelordofcheese wrote: »

You're constantly complaining about the current government. If FF are as bad as you say then surely any change would be an improvement.
*sigh*
Sometimes i'm convinced that Ireland deserves Fianna Fáil.

I never said "any change would be an improvement" so I would appreciate it if you don't evoke, insinuate or attach that train of thought onto my words.

...and your right, sometimes I think the country does deserve Fianna Fail - for they are stupid enough to be still giving them the votes!

OPENROAD · 14-01-2009 11:45PM

Can someone distingusih for me the key differnces policy wise between FF/FG and Labour?

Aidric · 14-01-2009 11:48PM

Perish the thought of this bumbling clown as Taoiseach. I saw him up close and observed him amongst a crowd whilst he was canvassing in the last general election. He has no warmth or charisma in terms of working a crowd, a trait very important as a leader. And before anyone jumps down my throat yes he obviously does it well enough in Mayo to be continually elected for such a long time. It doesn't transfer elsewhere though. His public speaking and engagement with a crowd are also poor. Those leader debates at the time of the general election marked him out as a weaklink. For the future good of Fine Gael they should elect Richard Bruton as leader in time for a good run at the next general election.

Biggins · 14-01-2009 11:48PM

brianthebard wrote: »

Biggins; if you don't want to like him fair enough. Just make your points real. I've shown you the flaws and you have no rebuttal.

I'm not going to get into a endless round of tit for tat rebuttals so that one has the childish pleasure of putting down the other as in a school yard stupid fight.

I didn't say I didn't like him!!!

HAVE YOU GOT THAT YET - HAS IT SUNK IN?

There is question posed at the start of this thread - guess what - we answered.
Tough if you don't like the answers.

...but you go ahead and still pick, pick away...

Húrin · 15-01-2009 12:50AM

Biggins wrote: »

So what, by that reasoning, we just vote in the (supposed!) second best just because its there in the queue!
Somethings never change!

Wow, you consider FF to be the best?

rossie1977 · 15-01-2009 12:56AM

brianthebard wrote: »

Or, theory no.2; He's a culchie and the people that hate him are townies. This is backed up by every townie who's ever spoken about him saying they don't like him.

have to say thats a very weak argument for anyone considering cowen, reynolds, bruton, Haughey (4 of our last five taoiseachs) are as culchie as kenny, jesus reynolds was born in the bogs of roscommon, castlebar in comparison is a metropolis :eek:

Biggins · 15-01-2009 01:20AM

Húrin wrote: »

Wow, you consider FF to be the best?

No, god, no.
Just in terms of voting preference numbers I was ascertaining to (and as per the votes in the last election).

brianthebard · 15-01-2009 01:24AM

rossie1977 wrote: »

have to say thats a very weak argument for anyone considering cowen, reynolds, bruton, Haughey (4 of our last five taoiseachs) are as culchie as kenny, jesus reynolds was born in the bogs of roscommon, castlebar in comparison is a metropolis :eek:

Lolz. I'm just trying to balance all the other poor arguments about Kenny.

Mont · 15-01-2009 01:35AM

The sooner FG get rid of Kenny the better and im not talking about that other ape namely Richard Bruton as leader either. One of the main reasons FF stroll into Govt is the lack of any decent opposition. FF recruits any charismatic person to their party quicker than anyone else. People forget that politics is mainly about talking the talk and if people dont want to listen to you then you are doomed. No better example than Barrack Obama in America. The guy has very little experience yet he won the election hands down because he was the most charismatic. As Shakespeare wrote "the mob are fickle".

12 months time people will be calling for his head.

Thomas_S_Hunterson · 15-01-2009 01:41AM

This.

To be honest, it's the whole package. No doubt he's a nice genuine guy, but he comes across as a bit of a country bumpkin...up for the day in the big schmoke. We need someone a bit shrewd IMO. A bit more Haughey and a bit less Fr. Dougal Maguire.

What exactly is it about Enda Kenny that makes us see him as a poor potential leader?

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