What is a man?

Jazzy · 14-01-2009 06:21AM #1

This is a man

An 84-year-old war veteran who foiled sledge-hammer wielding robbers raiding a jewellers has told Sky News he does not think he is a hero.

William Grove

William Grove is to receive a commendation for his bravery in tackling the balaclava-clad teenagers as they smashed their way into a Ernest Jones store in Richmond, south west London.

Mr Grove was the only person to intervene as the daytime raid unfolded in front of more than 50 shoppers and office workers.

Using lessons he learned with the RAF, Mr Grove grabbed one of the teenagers as he stretched through the broken window to reach some of the jewellery.

The robber was so stunned as Mr Grove tore off his balaclava that he and his accomplice dropped their sledge-hammers and fled.

While grappling with one of the robbers, Mr Grove pulled his balaclava off - taking with it DNA evidence that proved crucial in catching and convicting the criminals.

One of the 17-year-olds, who came from Sydenham, was found guilty after denying burglary at Richmond Youth Court. He will be sentenced at Camberwell Youth Court later this month.

The second 17-year-old has already been jailed for six months, having pleaded guilty on December 5.

The grateful jewellers offered to give Mr Grove a Rolex watch.

But the widower, who had recently lost his wife following a long battle with Alzheimer's, refused the gift, and instead asked them to pass on a donation to charity.

Mr Grove told Sky News crime correspondent Martin Brunt that he did not think of himself as a hero, but preferred the term "responsible citizen".

Asked why it had been left to him to intervene, he said it was perhaps because he knew a technique to control and restrain the robbers, whereas others may not have.

"I just had that technique in the back of my mind there - it's like when you learn to ride a bicycle, you never forget," he said.

He added that he had not had time to worry about his own personal safety.

"I was surrounded by people surely people would have come to my aid if I had been attacked," he said.

Det Con Patrick Flanagan, who led the investigation, described Mr Grove, who lives in Twickenham, as "extraordinary".

SoupyNorman · 14-01-2009 06:29AM

Ewwwwwww, Sky News........

spinandscribble · 14-01-2009 06:33AM

impressive. looks like an auld dote too.

Call Me Jimmy · 14-01-2009 06:54AM

yea but wudja ride him?

BraziliaNZ · 14-01-2009 06:55AM

is that Jon Voight?

javaboy · 14-01-2009 08:28AM

I knew they were hamming it up during that medical card crisis. They can't be that bad off if they can tackle teenagers and win.

KTRIC · 14-01-2009 08:35AM

God, that man has some balls, granted they're probably around his knee's but some balls all the same.

Fair play to him, nice to see there's some real men left

Sharpshooter · 14-01-2009 08:45AM

He deserves his comendation for bravery , and as for the rest of them, they should hang their heads in shame.

Jesus Wept · 14-01-2009 08:46AM

The Big Lebowski: What makes a man, Mr. Lebowski?
The Dude: Dude.
The Big Lebowski: Huh?
The Dude: Uhh... I don't know sir.
The Big Lebowski: Is it being prepared to do the right thing, whatever the cost? Isn't that what makes a man?
The Dude: Hmmm... Sure, that and a pair of testicles.

the_syco · 14-01-2009 09:04AM

As the saying goes: "once a marine, always a marine".

Fair balls to him.

Plug · 14-01-2009 09:11AM

Jesus I would have bet the awl lad for my ballaclava back:D

minidazzler · 14-01-2009 10:20AM

the_syco wrote: »

As the saying goes: "once a marine, always a marine".

Fair balls to him.

He was RAF, BIG Difference.

Personally, while I think he did the right thing, he did take a massive risk with his life!!! There are alot of Scum in the world and it would have taken only a slight whack with a sledge hammer to kill that guy.

S.I.R · 14-01-2009 10:26AM

dont fluck with oap's guys...

:eek:

Dragan · 14-01-2009 10:34AM

minidazzler wrote: »

Personally, while I think he did the right thing, he did take a massive risk with his life!!! There are alot of Scum in the world and it would have taken only a slight whack with a sledge hammer to kill that guy.

It's okay, the 50 people who stood there and watched him sort it all out thought the same thing.

To be honest, i do maintain it's this type of mentality that allows scumbags to get away with 70% of the **** they pull.

minidazzler · 14-01-2009 10:45AM

Dragan wrote: »

It's okay, the 50 people who stood there and watched him sort it all out thought the same thing.

To be honest, i do maintain it's this type of mentality that allows scumbags to get away with 70% of the **** they pull.

I would like to think I would step in and help, but this guy is 84, that's why I said it, Never been put in such a situation, but I have been in a few fights and can take and give a nice punch, so I would think I could step in and help, but in fairness, this guy would not be in the best condition after that many years of life!!!

Dragan · 14-01-2009 10:49AM

minidazzler wrote: »

I would like to think I would step in and help, but this guy is 84, that's why I said it, Never been put in such a situation, but I have been in a few fights and can take and give a nice punch, so I would think I could step in and help, but in fairness, this guy would not be in the best condition after that many years of life!!!

Indeed, and he still stepped in and did something while 50 people stood and watched. You can assume that out of that 50 maybe half we male, and maybe half of those should have been reasonably physically able....and yet they all stood there and watch an old man deal with two pussy scumbags.

Because the simple fact is that the vast majority of scumbags are pussies. The control people through fear and bulked up news stories about how bad it is in Tallaght, or ****ing Moyross, or wherever, and the whole reason these people are kicking about town is because they are too ****ing scared, by and large, to be in their own estate.

The simple fact is, on a daily basis, people sit back and allow things to happen that they could easily stop and it's as simple a thing as fear that allows people to get away with it.

Naos · 14-01-2009 10:58AM

minidazzler wrote: »

I would like to think I would step in and help, but this guy is 84, that's why I said it, Never been put in such a situation, but I have been in a few fights and can take and give a nice punch, so I would think I could step in and help, but in fairness, this guy would not be in the best condition after that many years of life!!!

I could understand why some people would not want to get involved at the start, but surely once they seen an OAP's life was potentially under threat, they should have overcome all fear and rushed the thieves.

As previously stated, the idle men there should hang their heads in shame, fair play Gramps (and to top it all, refusing the Rolex and asking to give to charity, legend).

Jesus Wept · 14-01-2009 11:05AM

Dragan wrote: »

Indeed, and he still stepped in and did something while 50 people stood and watched. You can assume that out of that 50 maybe half we male, and maybe half of those should have been reasonably physically able....and yet they all stood there and watch an old man deal with two pussy scumbags.

Because the simple fact is that the vast majority of scumbags are pussies. The control people through fear and bulked up news stories about how bad it is in Tallaght, or ****ing Moyross, or wherever, and the whole reason these people are kicking about town is because they are too ****ing scared, by and large, to be in their own estate.

The simple fact is, on a daily basis, people sit back and allow things to happen that they could easily stop and it's as simple a thing as fear that allows people to get away with it.

Down with scumbags and all that, of course.

However, why on earth should I/Joe pubic/Jon Voight OAP get involved when some scummers rob a jewellery shop?

Srsly?! It's poor advice.

You could easily get lumps kicked out of you/knifed/stuck with a needle/killed.

A far more likely headline would have been:

'Jewellery shop robbed, old 'Jon Voight' lookalike man was fatally stabbed when he pointlessly put himself in harms way'.

useful_contacts · 14-01-2009 11:07AM

Jazzy wrote: »

This is a man

aw fair play 2 him

kittensoft1984 · 14-01-2009 11:09AM

wow thats amazing.

fair play to him

Jesus Wept · 14-01-2009 11:12AM

It's because he is 84 years old that you think it's 'amazing' and 'aw'.

If it were a 20 year old man with a young family, you'd think he was a fool for putting himself in harms way.

kittensoft1984 · 14-01-2009 11:13AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

It's because he is 84 years old that you think it's 'amazing' and 'aw'.

If it were a 20 year old man with young family, you'd think he was a fool for putting himself in harms way.

nope I don't actually. Anyone who puts their life in danger is amazing in my eyes

Jesus Wept · 14-01-2009 11:21AM

kittensoft1984 wrote: »

nope I don't actually. Anyone who puts their life in danger is amazing in my eyes

......

.....

....

...

..

/clears throat
/squints
/facepalms
/furrows brow

...

..

I think yore amazing.

Dragan · 14-01-2009 11:22AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

Down with scumbags and all that, of course.

However, why on earth should I/Joe pubic/Jon Voight OAP get involved when some scummers rob a jewellery shop?

Srsly?! It's poor advice.

You could easily get lumps kicked out of you/knifed/stuck with a needle/killed.

A far more likely headline would have been:

'Jewellery shop robbed, old 'Jon Voight' lookalike man was fatally stabbed when he pointlessly put himself in harms way'.

Actually, you couldn't. The chances of being killed in a violent assault are, statistically, so ****ing small it's not even funny....and that is EVEN if you have a job like a cop or a security guard where you are dealing with this type of thing daily ( crime, not hammer wielding watch collectors ).

It's just that the news stories and the human ailment of wanting to survive has us all convinced that the second we stand up for ourselves to these people they will kill us.

I mean, what the ****, are we really ruled by our fear of these scum to that degree?

Darragh29 · 14-01-2009 11:27AM

Fair play to the auld boy, it could of course have gone the other way, and he'd be lying now on his back on a morgue table with a Pathologist picking .22 rounds out of him with a tweezers.

Jesus Wept · 14-01-2009 11:34AM

Dragan wrote: »

Actually, you couldn't. The chances of being killed in a violent assault are, statistically, so ****ing small it's not even funny....and that is EVEN if you have a job like a cop or a security guard where you are dealing with this type of thing daily ( crime, not hammer wielding watch collectors ).

It's just that the news stories and the human ailment of wanting to survive has us all convinced that the second we stand up for ourselves to these people they will kill us.

I mean, what the ****, are we really ruled by our fear of these scum to that degree?

Killed was just one of the possiblities, unlikely as that was - he could easily have gotten himself hurt.

Also, I fail to see how he was standing up for himself, it was a smash and grab on a jewerelly store, one that will be making an insurance claim regardless of whether Jon Rambo Voight saves the day.
He wasn't attacked while walking down the road, he put himself in danger, pointlessly.

If William has a wife and/or kids and/or grandkids, they should be pissed off that he put himself in such a position so needlessly, and they should replace his Die Hard dvds with the Last of the Summer wine boxset.

Being a man isn't all about bravado, being a man is about using your head and thinking of the consequences/potential consequences of your actions and how it affects people, e.g: those that you love and that love you.

Dragan · 14-01-2009 11:44AM

The-Rigger wrote: »

Killed was just one of the possiblities, unlikely as that was - he could easily have gotten himself hurt.

Also, I fail to see how he was standing up for himself, it was a smash and grab on a jewerelly store, one that will be making an insurance claim regardless of whether Jon Rambo Voight saves the day.
He wasn't attacked while walking down the road, he put himself in danger, pointlessly.

If William has a wife and/or kids and/or grandkids, they should be pissed off that he put himself in such a position so needlessly, and they should replace his Die Hard dvds with the Last of the Summer wine boxset.

Being a man isn't all about bravado, being a man is about using your head and thinking of the consequences/potential consequences of your actions and how it affects people, e.g: those that you love and that love you.

He was being, in his own words "a responsibility citizen". I firmly believe that the role of someone in society is to help out and uphold it's laws and to be, in a very small way, a bit of a watchman at times.

This guy just saw a situation unfold that he felt he could help out with, so he did. And look what happened. He is fine, humble about his actions and the bad guys are in jail. A very nice happy ending. And not exactly a rarity...members of boards have done the same thing in the past.

I honestly believe the world would be a better place if people were more willing to stand up for each other, look out for each other and dare i say it...accept that there might be a place and a role of "responsible citizen" and that sometimes that role comes with exactly that....responsibilities.

Thats just me though.

minidazzler · 14-01-2009 11:46AM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Fair play to the auld boy, it could of course have gone the other way, and he'd be lying now on his back on a morgue table with a Pathologist picking .22 rounds out of him with a tweezers.

No self-respecting scummer uses a 22, it's all about the 9 millies!!!

but really, The guy did a good thing, if the lads had started beating on him, I doubt there would be many in the crowd of 50 who would have stepped in.

That is the reason people get away with this crap, because it is all about self-survival, Then these same people who admit they wouldn't step up to the plate complain that the cops aren't there on time, or that the cops used excessive force on a criminal who tried to bite him!!!!!

Earthhorse · 14-01-2009 12:13PM

Not stepping in in situation like this might allow crime to continue to take place throughout the city, and frankly, that's a risk I'm willing to take.

BroomBurner · 14-01-2009 12:25PM

Ah for God's sake, give it a rest with the "could have beens". The man, regardless of age, knew what he was doing as he had the training and knew his body's own capability.

Fair play to the guy for letting them live.

Kernel · 14-01-2009 01:30PM

Dragan wrote: »

Because the simple fact is that the vast majority of scumbags are pussies. The control people through fear and bulked up news stories about how bad it is in Tallaght, or ****ing Moyross, or wherever, and the whole reason these people are kicking about town is because they are too ****ing scared, by and large, to be in their own estate.

The simple fact is, on a daily basis, people sit back and allow things to happen that they could easily stop and it's as simple a thing as fear that allows people to get away with it.

100% agree with you. I've experienced a lot of scumbags, and most scumbags are pussies. But all pussies are pussies. We need more fighting cocks. Cocks with balls. We need more cocks with balls to fúck the pussies.

What is a man?

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