Benitez not happy with Fergie

mayordenis · 10-01-2009 12:46AM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Hold on a second now, am I the first today to say it?

nah mate - but like you can do better than that - you make a lot of good points but then I can't give your views any merit cause you pepper it with nonsense here and there - anyway it's cool I'll stop critisizing you not my place.
Expect rafa to have a full report on you ahead of our next game though.

UnitedIrishman · 10-01-2009 12:49AM

mayordenis wrote: »

nah mate - but like you can do better than that - you make a lot of good points but then I can't give your views any merit cause you pepper it with nonsense here and there - anyway it's cool I'll stop critisizing you not my place.
Expect rafa to have a full report on you ahead of our next game though.

Ok fair enough, it wasn't intended to take the piss out of his accent as such but the fact he said the word over and over again. I'll try and stick to the point instead of baiting!

mayordenis · 10-01-2009 12:50AM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Ok fair enough, it wasn't intended to take the piss out of his accent as such but the fact he said the word over and over again. I'll try and stick to the point instead of baiting!

/lick

fish fingers · 10-01-2009 12:52AM

mayordenis wrote: »

nah mate - but like you can do better than that - you make a lot of good points but then I can't give your views any merit cause you pepper it with nonsense here and there - anyway it's cool I'll stop critisizing you not my place.
Expect rafa to have a full report on you ahead of our next game though.

LOL

redout · 10-01-2009 12:56AM

mayordenis wrote: »

Another stupid comment mate - you're mocking him for his prounounciation of words in his non-native tongue.

If you are going to come here and debate don't sit around using play school insults - talk like an adult or take a hike.

I will just add that I live in Madrid and obviously here Spaniards speaking English on a regular bases and there was nothing unusual about Rafa.

UnitedIrishman · 10-01-2009 12:57AM

mayordenis wrote: »

/lick

Hey I've already been banned from this forum previously!

Highsider · 10-01-2009 12:58AM

UnitedIrishman wrote: »

Ok fair enough, it wasn't intended to take the piss out of his accent as such but the fact he said the word over and over again. I'll try and stick to the point instead of baiting!

Fair play mate.

redout · 10-01-2009 01:03AM

mayordenis wrote: »

again The Pool side and the nuetrals seem to all think he was bang on, It's only really the United Fans who think otherwise.

This is a quote from the times.

"Benítez was accused by some journalists of rising to Ferguson’s bait and falling for the “mind games” that famously drew an overemotional response from Kevin Keegan, the Newcastle United manager at the time, in the heat of the title race in the 1995-96 campaign."

Here is a Pool fans comments on the rant from the Independent.

"I am very worried by our Manager. Has he gone mad? No one has said anything about liverpool except for those who accuarately sight our somewhat dismal record under Rafa. Why doesn't he let sleeping dogs lie while we continue to mount our challenge to the EPL title? What this madman has done is to unleash the fury of a man who has no equals when it comes to getting the best out of his team at crunch time and at the same engineering the choking by his opponents. Rafa is so dumb that he is trying tobe a player in a game at which he has no experience.
We might as well go ahead and crown ManU.
We all we see the master hit back at a time of his choosing and Rafa will suffer immensely."

Complain about this comment
Posted by Liverpool forever | 09.01.09, 23:44 GMT

mayordenis · 10-01-2009 01:07AM

redout wrote: »

This is a quote from the times.

"Benítez was accused by some journalists of rising to Ferguson’s bait and falling for the “mind games” that famously drew an overemotional response from Kevin Keegan, the Newcastle United manager at the time, in the heat of the title race in the 1995-96 campaign."

awfully vague - I'm mostly going by the reaction on soccer forums, sites, and like phone in's by actual football fans as opposed the media reaction which is obliged to take this in the most sensationalist direction.

bUILDERtHEbOB · 10-01-2009 01:13AM

Just watched it there finally, Rafa man, I love you, fahct.

Seperate · 10-01-2009 01:17AM

"But I have seen some facts. On 1st November, they played Hull and Mr Ferguson had a two-match touchline ban and a £10,000 fine after confronting Mike Dean, the referee, for improper conduct."

This is True.

"We started the Respect campaign, and that was when (Javier) Mascherano was sent off (last season) at Old Trafford."

If you're such an avid follower of the campagn (and even if you're not) he deserved to be sent off.

"The referee (Steve Bennett) was the referee when they played against Wigan - he could not see the handball against Wigan by Rio Ferdinand, he did not give a penalty. They won the game and they won the title in this game."

Because thats never happened before? Liverpool vs Athletico Madrid comes to mind... Agger and Carragher handball it - not given... and liverpool get a penalty that clearly shouldn't have been given.

United won the title because they had more points then Chelsea, not because of that decision.

"I think it will be the same referee who will be in charge of their game in hand this season (against Wigan)."

If SAF had a choice of who would ref the game, Bennett wouldn't be anywhere near the top of it. He has sent off Ronnie twice and is known to let him take a beating. He is a mediocre referee in my opinion, that likes to be in the spot light.

"During the Respect campaign - and this is a fact - Mr Ferguson was charged by the FA for improper conduct after comments made about Martin Atkinson and Keith Hackett.

"He was not punished. He is the only manager in the league that cannot be punished for these things."

In Rafa's train of thought, should he not get some punishment for this rant about referees and how the board let people off? It's swings and roundabouts... but if he doesn't get punished, then this whole argument is flawed - as SAF isn't the only person to get away with it.

But hold on, the first quote says Ferguson got punished? Make up your mind Rafa.

"I was surprised but I have to talk about facts," added Benitez. "I think that is important. I think they (United) are nervous because we are at the top of the table.

"I want to be clear. I don't want to play mind games too early and I think that they want to start."

You're not playing the mind games Rafa, you're being played.

"Then he was talking about the fixtures," continued the former Valencia chief. "Two years ago we were playing a lot of early kick-offs away on Saturdays when United were playing on Sundays. And we didn't say anything."

This suggests otherwise.

"Now he is complaining about everything, that everybody is against United. But the second half of the season will see them playing at home against all the teams at the top of the table, it is a fantastic advantage."

Bit of a hypocrite here - as in the link above he said;

"I would like to ask the Premier League why is it that Liverpool always play the most fixtures away from home in an early kick-off, following an international break?"

Close enough to what SAF has been saying. How come in 2007 Rafa feels compelled to think the world is against LFC, but for SAF to suggest something similar in an even worse situation, is so outrageous?

"But at Christmas, United played on the 29th and the rest of the teams played on the 28th. We were away against Newcastle two days after playing Bolton. They were playing about 40 hours later, they were not complaining then."

Well you just enjoy your mid-week breaks while we play midweek for 4 weeks in a row.

"If he wants to talk about fixtures, and have a level playing field as you say in England. There are two options if we don't want more problems with fixtures.

"One is the same as in Spain, the draw for the first part of the league is known, everyone knows which weekend. In the second half everyone plays the opposite, so you all know."

"Sky have the right to choose their games and it will be the same for everyone. So Mr Ferguson will not be complaining about fixtures and a campaign against United.

I actually like this idea if i'm honest.

"Or there is another option. That Mr Ferguson organises the fixtures in his office and sends it to us and everyone will know and cannot complain. That is simple."

To me, that's a schoolboy response and it shows how much he has let it get to him - that he would take time out of his mind to think that.

For all the pool fans who think this is some kind of battle cry - maybe that is what you need at the moment - but this isn't anything of the sort. It's a flawed argument, that contradicts itself - and where are the facts that he started off talking about?

The whole thing about ferguson organising the fixture list? To me, that means he's thinking about it too much and fergie is definitely getting to him.

Iang87 · 10-01-2009 01:48AM

Benitez is gettin grief for making a few fair well organised points i'm a liverpool fan and what i got was that simply he's got a bigger pair of balls than any other manager in the league who are afraid of poxy fines, he was right in everything he said.

As far as fergie and his mind games bull**** goes is it not a fair point to also state that the european champions if they are apparently this good, shouldn't need mind games to make other sides slip up shouldn't they just play every side off the park and win everything as i've been kindly reminded by united fans everytime they score a last minute goal, get a dodgy penalty, escape red cards, Sorry i seem to be goin on a bit of a rant about the glory that is Man Utds glorious world conquering side

zing · 10-01-2009 02:07AM

On the whole he's cracked under the pressure thing - what pressure is he under now ? Seriously though - think about it - right now on the eve of a game against a club in the relegation zone followed by your two closest rivals playing each other how much pressure is he really under ? Next week things start to heat up a bit for us with two derbys inside a week but this weekend - what pressure ?

Or maybe Fergie's mindgames have gotten to him - iirc Fergie has only made one comment recently which in itself wasn't particularly negative about us or anything like that. If that's all it takes for Fergie to crack him then I'm amazed he's managed to hold it together for 4.5 years :rolleyes:

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-01-2009 02:09AM

I had to laugh upon hearing Rafa's comments. The guy is clearly rattled and cracking under the pressure. I bet it brought a smile to the legend's face when he heard the remarks.

zing wrote: »

On the whole he's cracked under the pressure thing - what pressure is he under now ? Seriously though - think about it - right now on the eve of a game against a club in the relegation zone followed by your two closest rivals playing each other how much pressure is he really under ? Next week things start to heat up a bit for us with two derbys inside a week but this weekend - what pressure ?

The pressure of being in a situation that he has never been in before? There's nothing Pool fans want more than the title.

Iang87 · 10-01-2009 02:19AM

why is it benitez cracking under pressure and any time ferguson opens his mouth its mind games. i guess double standards reached media and people just lik the FA

dfx- · 10-01-2009 02:20AM

About right I'd say about his intentions...

Sam Wallace in the Independent

In April 1988, a 46-year-old Alex Ferguson, not yet knighted and virtually the same age as Jose Mourinho is now, gave his take on how Liverpool benefited from refereeing decisions. "I can understand why clubs come away from Anfield choking on their own vomit and biting their tongues knowing they have been done by the referee," he said. "It would be a miracle to win here. I am not getting at this referee. It is the whole intimidating atmosphere and the monopoly they [Liverpool] have enjoyed here for years that gets to the referees eventually."

More than 20 years on, despite all that Ferguson has said since, that quotation is one of his most memorable. In fact you can still buy T-shirts in Manchester bearing those words. Coming after a 3-3 draw it became the defining take on the perceived bias of referees towards Liverpool at Anfield. It was argued over for months. The point is not whether Ferguson was right or wrong. The point is that people remembered. The point is that referees remembered.

If Rafael Benitez's invective yesterday against United was designed to do anything then it was designed to stick in people's minds, especially the part about United players haranguing referees and getting decisions at Old Trafford. Liverpool fans, spare me the pious emails telling me he is right. This is not about right or wrong – and who on earth could ever judge which team gets the most decisions at home? It is about having a calculated effect on referees in a title run-in that is heating up nicely.

Ferguson is a bully. In fact he's brilliant at it. After the FA Cup third round tie against Southampton, the manager Jan Poortvliet said, as respectfully as possible, that Ferguson stood up once in the whole game and after that every decision went for him. He may well be right, but does anyone seriously expect Ferguson not to use his 23 years of unprecedented success, his fame, his forceful personality to give himself an advantage? There is no manager who would not do the same.

Benitez has taken Ferguson on at his own game and for that he deserves admiration. It is testament to his own understated way of going about things that he had every argument typed out in bullet points on a sheet of paper. Ferguson prefers the molten-eruption, phlegm-flecked, finger-jabbing approach. Benitez delivered in the manner of a geologist giving a lecture on soil erosion.

The desired effect for the Liverpool manager is that every referee in charge of a United game from tomorrow to the end of the season is eager not to be the man fingered for caving into Ferguson. It will be the issue that grips us from now on: is Benitez right? And that is just the way the Liverpool manager wants it. If one referee has a moment of doubt because of what Benitez has said and denies United accordingly then, for Liverpool, it will have been worth it.

Ferguson will have to come back at Benitez, he will have to do so in order to defend his team. He has been here before, to a lesser degree, when Arsène Wenger accused the Neville brothers of targeting Jose Antonio Reyes in the famous 49-game unbeaten run-ending match in October 2004. Never mind the "Battle of the Buffet" that ensued, Ferguson was most concerned to address a public perception that his team were dirty because he realised how damaging that could be.

If you have any sympathy, save it for the referees who find themselves in a no-win situation. No one can actually remember whether that decision to send off Colin Gibson that sparked Ferguson's rant almost 21 years ago was right or not. They do not recall whether Steve McMahon should have been sent off too, which he also believed. They just recall the impression that Liverpool got decisions at home. Which is exactly the same legacy – albeit with referees at Old Trafford – that Benitez wishes to create.

zing · 10-01-2009 02:23AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The pressure of being in a situation that he has never been in before? There's nothing Pool fans want more than the title.

He has been there with Valencia though - remember ? My point was that he's under relatively little pressure this weekend - hell he's been under far more pressure during some of the CL games over the last few years than he'll be under all this weekend regardless of the outcome of the games. His team are top and the worst that can happen is Chelsea join us at the top - would that really be the season over for him ? Yes he's under pressure to try stay on top but our game this weekend should (fingers, etc.. crossed) be relatively straight forward - 1st v 18th or wherever Stoke are. If he's cracking this weekend he'll probably need to be in restraints for his pres conferences for the derbys.

NaiveMelodies · 10-01-2009 02:28AM

Trying to be as balanced as possible about this, and obviously I'll say Fergie is 1 up in the mind games as I am biased.

However, the thing that really shocked me that the question Benitez was asked had nothing to do with the "rant" that ensued.

The fact that he had it prepared would also worry me, surely he should be 110 percent focused on his sides tactics and selection?

redout · 10-01-2009 02:40AM

only1stevo wrote: »

Trying to be as balanced as possible about this, and obviously I'll say Fergie is 1 up in the mind games as I am biased.

However, the thing that really shocked me that the question Benitez was asked had nothing to do with the "rant" that ensued.

The fact that he had it prepared would also worry me, surely he should be 110 percent focused on his sides tactics and selection?

I would say Benitez is under huge pressure to be honest. He manages the most succesful team in British football who are expected to challenge for the league and who have not won it in 18 years. This year being in such a good position only adds to the pressure on his shoulders in my opinion.

ntlbell · 10-01-2009 02:52AM

lol he was like a spanish bertie ahern

how embarassing..

NaiveMelodies · 10-01-2009 02:52AM

redout wrote: »

I would say Benitez is under huge pressure to be honest. He manages the most succesful team in British football who are expected to challenge for the league and who have not won it in 18 years. This year being in such a good position only adds to the pressure on his shoulders in my opinion.

And hes after adding the pressure of having to overcome the challenge of united, because if he doesnt, I, along with many united fans will most certainly refer back to this rant and laugh, alot, at rafa!
This is the facts, no?:D

mayordenis · 10-01-2009 02:54AM

ntlbell wrote: »

lol he was like a spanish bertie ahern

how embarassing..

only1stevo wrote: »

And hes after adding the pressure of having to overcome the challenge of united, because if he doesnt, I, along with many united fans will most certainly refer back to this rant and laugh, alot, at rafa!
This is the facts, no?:D

awesome guys

Mr.Nice Guy · 10-01-2009 03:02AM

zing wrote: »

He has been there with Valencia though - remember ? My point was that he's under relatively little pressure this weekend - hell he's been under far more pressure during some of the CL games over the last few years than he'll be under all this weekend regardless of the outcome of the games. His team are top and the worst that can happen is Chelsea join us at the top - would that really be the season over for him ? Yes he's under pressure to try stay on top but our game this weekend should (fingers, etc.. crossed) be relatively straight forward - 1st v 18th or wherever Stoke are. If he's cracking this weekend he'll probably need to be in restraints for his pres conferences for the derbys.

He's been there with Valencia but that hasn't counted for a lot in previous title races. To be honest I don't see the logic in it. As you say he's not under pressure this weekend but from now until the end of the season this is going to be on people's minds and will certainly be mentioned frequently. Why do it? I mean deciding to engage in mind games with Fergie is a bit like challenging Phil Taylor to a game of darts. I can only imagine he saw it as a pre-emptive strike and a way to rally Liverpool fans but I believe this could add extra pressure to a Liverpool team that still has a good bit of the season to get through. A mistake on his part in my view.

Chardee MacDennis · 10-01-2009 03:10AM

if anyone thinks rafa needs to concentrate on his team selection for tomorrow then it shows how little people know of Rafa! he would have had his tactics and formation set for this game weeks ago...

Chucky the tree · 10-01-2009 03:27AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He's been there with Valencia but that hasn't counted for a lot in previous title races. To be honest I don't see the logic in it. As you say he's not under pressure this weekend but from now until the end of the season this is going to be on people's minds and will certainly be mentioned frequently. Why do it? I mean deciding to engage in mind games with Fergie is a bit like challenging Phil Taylor to a game of darts. I can only imagine he saw it as a pre-emptive strike and a way to rally Liverpool fans but I believe this could add extra pressure to a Liverpool team that still has a good bit of the season to get through. A mistake on his part in my view.

You honestly dont know why he picked to say this two days before the United chelsea match at Old Trafford to make remakrs about how Fergie treats referee's to influnece their decisions in games?

mormank · 10-01-2009 07:07AM

Villain wrote: »

Well Sir Alex imo as someone who doesn't like Utd has deserved the title of Sir and it doesn't do Rafa any favours to disrespect him by calling him Mr

oh give me a break!!! the title of sir is just something given out by the queen every now and then so she doesnt seem so obselete!! british empire indeed...

what a joke that sports personalities can become knights anyway!! lol

~Rebel~ · 10-01-2009 08:56AM

lost it? Just watched it on cnn - most composed, planned thing ever! Its not like he's said anything particularly 'out there'. I don't see any adverse affects from this tbh. Added pressure? I think challenging for the league is pretty much the peak of pressure anyway..what it mite do is take alex's eye off the ball in some small way before the massive game on sunday.

That he decided to pick now, makes me think rafa isn't as worried about chelsea as he is about manu (which id agree with).

As for this going to haunt him for the season? Managers make these rants every few weeks! Id be surprised if this gets more the the very occasional mention after a week, because its simply No Big Deal. Its a bit of a non story. Now, if pool went on to not win any of their next 3 or 4 games, people would point at the timing, but i just don't see that happening.

zing · 10-01-2009 09:20AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

He's been there with Valencia but that hasn't counted for a lot in previous title races. To be honest I don't see the logic in it. As you say he's not under pressure this weekend but from now until the end of the season this is going to be on people's minds and will certainly be mentioned frequently. Why do it?

Why do it ? For the very reason you mention - to get this on peoples minds from now until the end of the season. But not Joe Punter - Joe Punter doesn't matter here - it's about having this stick in the referees minds between now and the end of the season and if it has an influence on just one or two of them then it'll have been successful (but of course Joe Punter may not see that). That Sam Wallace article is largely on the money for me

walshki · 10-01-2009 09:52AM

zing wrote: »

Why do it ? For the very reason you mention - to get this on peoples minds from now until the end of the season. But not Joe Punter - Joe Punter doesn't matter here - it's about having this stick in the referees minds between now and the end of the season and if it has an influence on just one or two of them then it'll have been successful (but of course Joe Punter may not see that). That Sam Wallace article is largely on the money for me

Exactly - Rafa does nothing that he doesn't think might give some tactical advantage - rants aren't in his nature. He sees this might influence referees in games involving United and one this Sunday involving Chelsea and United. He wasn't overly emotional. Any nervousness there was I would attribute to him being concerned about not being clear in his second language. He wasn't near tears or cracking under pressure - just hopping a ball. All the better if its gets a response from Mr. Sir Alex.

mormank · 10-01-2009 10:16AM

i personally cant wait for gift grub´s take on this!! should be good. be gutted if they dont pick up on this.

im delighted to see rafa making this statement. nobody is talking aboue stevie´s troubles anymore are they....

Benitez not happy with Fergie

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