Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

I don't know what to do

24

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,584 ✭✭✭PCPhoto


    in my opinion...... talk to the girl, maybe meet with her and maybe a social worker, explain to them both that you have planned Oz and you are not running away from responsibility, goto Oz, enjoy the experience.

    theres a thousand (slight dramatisation) different possibilities here which other posters have already given their opinions on.

    She could be correct - and you are going to be a daddy
    She could be bluffing - in an attempt to get money for an assumed abortion* (Unlikely as she's due in summer and probably past time for abortion)
    She could have made a mistake - another guy is the daddy
    She could be making the whole thing up in an attempt to be with you ???
    She might have told the real daddy and he rejected her and now you are the fall back guy.

    You do have responsibilities as a father (assuming the child is yours), however you do not need to be there if you dont want to, but must finiancially support your child.

    As "twink" said a couple of months ago..... "zip up yer 'oul mickey" .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    Something that has just crossed my mind...why did you give your number out on a one night stand?

    I have had one night stands in the past and given false numbers for a good reason..didnt want to be contacted by them again.

    Before anyone starts...it was when I was a rascal in my early 20s and yes it was very irresponsible and I havent had a one night stand in years.

    Lesson from today:

    1. Use condoms
    2. If you dont, then do not give out your correct number.:p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭littlebug


    I was asked for a dna test, although not in the context of a one night stand. The way I see it, is either I was being called a liar or ****ed around so much I was too stupid to know who the father is. Either way it's an insult. It got up my nose and I procrastinated it because it pissed me off and then was sorely tempted to deny permission and let his father die wondering. I did eventually permit it, no apology received from his mother who swabbed my infant in a hotel bar. It has sat badly with me since.

    Gosh metrovelvet that's horrible:(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Just my gut feeling, but perhaps she wanted to get pregnant?

    A friend of mine was with a girl for a few months who claimed was on the pill... six months later he discovered she was lying and was trying to get pregnant. Luckily that never happened.

    If I were you, I'd go to Oz and then reevaluate the situation when the child is born.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    I was asked for a dna test, although not in the context of a one night stand. The way I see it, is either I was being called a liar or ****ed around so much I was too stupid to know who the father is. Either way it's an insult. It got up my nose and I procrastinated it because it pissed me off and then was sorely tempted to deny permission and let his father die wondering. I did eventually permit it, no apology received from his mother who swabbed my infant in a hotel bar. It has sat badly with me since.

    There are a lot of psychos out there though. Men need to be careful too...


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    AARRRGH wrote: »
    There are a lot of psychos out there though. Men need to be careful too...

    My guess is there are a lot less psychos out there then there are men who dont want to pay maintenance.

    But they should still apologise after they take the bristle swab to the baby's cheek, hold down the squirming baby, and send its dna in the post to a lab, and calling its mother either a liar or a stupid whore by the deed itself, and having the arrogance to think their paternity is worth lying about [especially when you come from a country in which paternity fraud gets you incarcerated].

    Seriously, if you swab an infant and question the mother's [psycho or not psycho] honesty, you should apologise when you are proved wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭dolliemix


    I have this weird sore on my hooha...





    Is there really such a thread?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,398 ✭✭✭MIN2511


    Hey there, first and foremost. Go to Australia, do not put your life on hold.

    There are options, ask her nicely what she wants to do... For all you know she may want an abortion!


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    dolliemix off topic posts are not welcome in this forum. Please read the charter. Thanks.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭dolliemix


    Ok sorry!

    I would not mention the word abortion to your ex.....at the moment she believes she is pregnant unplanned....unsure of who the father is....and perhaps the father is heading of to OZ for a year while she is dealing with this scary road ahead of her on her own.

    Give the girl a break....what she she needs right now is support. Tell her you will need to do a paternity test and if the baby is yours you should stick around.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Pub07


    My guess is there are a lot less psychos out there then there are men who dont want to pay maintenance.

    But they should still apologise after they take the bristle swab to the baby's cheek, hold down the squirming baby, and send its dna in the post to a lab, and calling its mother either a liar or a stupid whore by the deed itself, and having the arrogance to think their paternity is worth lying about [especially when you come from a country in which paternity fraud gets you incarcerated].

    Seriously, if you swab an infant and question the mother's [psycho or not psycho] honesty, you should apologise when you are proved wrong.

    What planet are you living on? The OP is 100% right to request a paternity test from a girl he hardly knows apart from a one night stand and who is giving him a very dodgy story. Your story is a different situation altogether, someone you were in a relationship with and presumably knew very well requested the test as opposed to someone you just had a one night stand with. What do you expect the OP to do??.. just accept that he is the father when there is a more than insignificant chance he isn't. He has absolutely no reason to apologise for anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    Well the dates seem to be off by 2 weeks so i guess it doesnt help either way.

    How exactly is it off by 2 weeks. A pregnancy is 40 weeks long, but the 1st week is calculated from the date of the start of the last period before conception. So the pregnancy itself is 38 weeks long.

    For example, if she is telling you she is 20 weeks pregnant and you slept together 18 weeks ago then you would have slept together at the right time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Pub07 wrote: »
    What planet are you living on? The OP is 100% right to request a paternity test from a girl he hardly knows apart from a one night stand and who is giving him a very dodgy story. Your story is a different situation altogether, someone you were in a relationship with and presumably knew very well requested the test as opposed to someone you just had a one night stand with. What do you expect the OP to do??.. just accept that he is the father when there is a more than insignificant chance he isn't. He has absolutely no reason to apologise for anything.

    When you accuse someone of fraud and you ask them to prove their innocence, and you are assuming guilt until proven otherwise, you should apologise when you are wrong. He doesnt actually have any rights to demand one, so he should ask nicely as he will need her consent, and then say sorry fr not trusting you I was just insecure about the whole thing, etc etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,778 ✭✭✭✭Kold


    When you accuse someone of fraud and you ask them to prove their innocence, and you are assuming guilt until proven otherwise, you should apologise when you are wrong. He doesnt actually have any rights to demand one, so he should ask nicely as he will need her consent, and then say sorry fr not trusting you I was just insecure about the whole thing, etc etc.

    Well if she didn't take a test, he's every right to tell her where to go. I'm pretty sure he wasn't too enamoured with the idea of having a kid with some bird he didn't want a relationship with in the first place. Yes he messed up by not wearing a johnny but she'd led him to believe that there was no chance of having a child.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Pub07


    When you accuse someone of fraud and you ask them to prove their innocence, and you are assuming guilt until proven otherwise, you should apologise when you are wrong. He doesnt actually have any rights to demand one, so he should ask nicely as he will need her consent, and then say sorry fr not trusting you I was just insecure about the whole thing, etc etc.

    Wait a second, you think OP is out of order to ask for a paternity test from a girl he hardly knows apart from a one night stand. As I said already it is not the same as your situation where someone you knew very well asked for the test, this is just some random girl he had sex with. It is standard procedure, do you just expect him to spend the next 18 years raising this child or paying maintenance for it for when he hasn't conclusive proof it is his? She is the one 'accusing' him of being the father, the onus is on her to prove that he is, he doesn't just have to accept by default that he is a father of a child just because some random women he had a one night stand with a few months ago says he is. If she is willing to have a one night stand with him it means in all likelyhood she has been having them with other people. I also remember one or two previous threads on this forum from women who've had one night stands and who were unsure who the father is. The OP has nothing to apologise for as there is nothing wrong with asking for a paternity test, and he has every right to demand one if it came to it, shure the courts would agree.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    He should ask with humility and apologise when his paternity is confirmed. Legally the onus is on him to prove she's a liar. And he will have to pay the costs of it if the court orders blood tests.

    Im not suggesting he doesnt ask for one, by all means he has good reason to, but he still should apologise when the test confirms his paternity. Its a bit like reasonable suspicion. If the cops have a couple of good reasons to suspect you have illegal substances and do a search but find nothing, they should apologise regardless of what grounds they had for suspicion in the first place.

    Kold - maybe she herself believed there was no chance of having a child, and there is always a chance of having a child, bar abstinence. I know the date of expiry doesnt wash and raises some questions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭deisemum


    I read an article a while back, maybe others here can remember reading the same article about paternity tests.

    From memory about a third of the paternity tests proved the man was not the father.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭Valmont


    For the love of God, go to Oz. If you don't and you do have a kid you'll be sorry you didn't. I know people will not recommend flouting your responsibility but I'd say just go for it, have some fun while you can. Sounds like a sneaky lady!

    He didn't wear a condom get over it folks. It'll do no good telling him now.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,012 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I was in a similar situation myself about two years ago, so I can hopefully share some of the lessons I learned the hard way so that perhaps you won't.

    To begin with, she's almost certainly keeping the child. If she was still considering either abortion or adoption it is unlikely she would contact you - possible, but highly unlikely. She's contacting you because she wants financial support and/or your involvement in the child's future. She's made her decision and is now testing your reaction.

    There are really only two issues you should be considering; are you ready / willing to be a father in these circumstances and is it yours?

    I'll cover the first as it is ultimately the most important and the second becomes almost moot if the answer is no. To begin with you need to snap out of the 'doing the right thing' fantasy. I call it a fantasy because it only applies to men - women don't have to do this, they have a right to choose - even in Ireland where they have a constitutional right to travel to have an abortion elsewhere (a classic Irish solution to a problem no one wants to face up to). As such you need to look at your situation in a similar light rather than get pushed into something you'll regret because of social peer pressure.

    Being a single father under the best of circumstances is not easy. Other than the obvious sacrifices (time and financial), there are other social and financial implications - many women will not enter relationships with men who already have children and loans or mortgages will suddenly become a lot harder to get the moment you have maintenance as one of your outgoings. But that is the best of circumstances - at worst you have that and a belligerent mother also to contend with, who may seek your involvement only on her terms, or only on a financial basis - seeking only to maximize what she can make out of you. This will mean additional stress and cost, as you find yourself permanently in and out of court for the next twenty odd years.

    This is not to say that you should not choose to be a father, only that you should think about it realistically. My mistake is that while not in a one-night-stand situation, it was not much better (I knew her online for some time but was involved with her off-line only a few weeks by the time she was pregnant), and I decided to try and 'do the right thing' - something which I bitterly regret, as I knew in my heart that she would be a nightmare to deal with in the future. It took 18 months of trying, unsuccessfully, to find a compromise that did not mean my adhering to her demands and threats, whenever she saw fit to make them, for me to finally give up the ghost. It was, without doubt, the worst period of my life and would not wish it on anyone.

    Others can give a rosier picture of their experience and I would not discount theirs as different people have had different experiences. I can only speak of my own, which were not good.

    If you do choose to make a go of it, then I would certainly seek a DNA test after the birth, and I would be very open and clear about it from the onset. Given your circumstances, I think it would be insane not to do so. The bottom line is that while you have no legal right to demand one, she cannot legally demand a penny from you without it either.

    I sought one too, at first because two hospitals both put the conception date prior to her being in the same country as me, but ultimately because my family needed this confirmation for their own piece of mind. At first she refused, but finally allowed it when I threatened to stop paying maintenance. The test proved positive and while part of me regrets that I never apologized to her for this, relations were already poisoned long before and so I doubt it would have made much difference if I had. It is also the closest thing to a right that fathers have in Ireland, and after being told by someone else that they have unilaterally decided the course of the rest of your life and that they maintain right of veto over any right or connection you have to your child, it's difficult to even want to apologize for it, TBH.

    I would both recommend and not recommend mediation or councilling if you choose to make a go of things. One one side you often need a neutral third party to cut through the hormones, fears and emotions of such a difficult period. On the other side it appears to be completely focused on the mother, especially during pregnancy. I attended a few sessions with Cura, with the mother of my child, and I would never recommend them as a consequence. I can accept that they have a policy of being against abortion, but it was obvious from the onset that they were also trying to push the 'right thing' agenda from the onset and were not terribly interested in what I felt, unless it facilitated this agenda.

    If you choose that you are not ready or simply do not want to be a father with her (or ever), then I strongly recommend you leave Ireland before she gives birth. Until then she cannot legally touch you, thereafter you will be looking in the letterbox for a summons every day.

    On which point, if she was a one-night-stand, how much does she know about you? Other than your mobile number, does she even have your full name? Address?

    Either way if you leave Ireland prior to birth, then she would need to find you abroad and sue you in that jurisdiction. If she sues you prior to leaving Ireland, then it's still not easy for her to peruse you, but because she'll have a judgment against you, it will cut out much of the red tape should she locate you. You will, however, effectively become an exile.

    If you stand your ground in Ireland but choose not to be involved, then you'll still have to pay maintenance. In Ireland, this appears to be an average of about €80 p.w. (although figures vary wildly, even for men in the same circumstances) up to a maximum in the circuit court of €150 p.w. Technically there's no limit on child maintenance, but unless you're on serious money or were married to her, any case she will attempt to bring against you in a higher court will most likely be thrown out.

    Seeking a DNA test could clear your name if you are pretty sure it's not yours, but it can also potentially give her evidence of your paternity if you're wrong. So it's a gamble.

    Unfortunately, these are the only choices open to you by dint of your Y-chromosome. The principle advice I'd give is to choose before the child is born and don't get sucked into this whole 'doing the right thing' peer pressure. And good luck, it's not an easy time and no one really cares what you feel, only what you 'should' be feeling, was my experience.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭dolliemix


    Sorry to hear you feel so hard done by...bitter exp...but I am appalled at the previous post. There is is only one innocent victim in this whole scenario and that is the baby....mother and father no matter what the circumstances of conception should take responsiblity.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    bitter_exp wrote: »
    many women will not enter relationships with men who already have children

    I'll make no bones about the fact that after a bad experience with a single father I would always have been extremely reluctant to date another one. However there is absolutely no way on earth I would date a father who had nothing to do with his child. And I think you'll find that most women would feel that way.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    I have known women who have been seriously screwed over by the fathers(pricks basically) of their children, but I have to say and with equal sadness, that the four men I know well that have been in this situation, their experiences echoed pretty much exactly what bitter_exp posted. Especially the leverage used by the mother above and beyond what was right. They went through hell in the courts and in the childs life. What makes their experience worse is that they all had a seemingly stable relationship and wanted to have the child after the initial shock, but the almost constant emotional and financial blackmail really affected them. To the degree that two ended up on medication for depression/anxiety. Now don't get me wrong, there are always two sides, but I have to say(and may just be my admittedly male perspective) the women and their families really piled on the crap. The men were treated like pariahs in their childrens lives and were only consulted when money came up.

    Only this xmas I saw the results of some of this.

    I do agree too 100%, that the children in each of these cases suffered from the loss of the father and indeed the stress of the mother. I would also say the amount of emotional blackmail two of these women placed on the kids shoulders was nothing short of criminal. It made me incandescent with anger and frustration for the men TBH. The joke is one of these women was actually my mate and after a year of seeing this I ended that friendship and I would have sided with the guy.

    Too many women and men are having children when they've barely stopped being children themselves.

    So much so, that I'll be honest, I'm thinking strongly of getting the snip.:(
    iguana wrote: »
    I'll make no bones about the fact that after a bad experience with a single father I would always have been extremely reluctant to date another one. However there is absolutely no way on earth I would date a father who had nothing to do with his child. And I think you'll find that most women would feel that way.
    Maybe I'm taking this up wrong and apologies if I am, but how would a post like that be greeted if a man wrote; "after a bad experience with a single mother I would be extremely reluctant to go out with another and there is no way on earth I would go out with a woman who put her child up for adoption or had an abortion and I think most men would feel that way". He would be rightfully slated. I'm sorry but that smacks of a serious double standard.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    But they should still apologise after they take the bristle swab to the baby's cheek, hold down the squirming baby, and send its dna in the post to a lab, and calling its mother either a liar or a stupid whore by the deed itself, and having the arrogance to think their paternity is worth lying about [especially when you come from a country in which paternity fraud gets you incarcerated].

    Seriously, if you swab an infant and question the mother's [psycho or not psycho] honesty, you should apologise when you are proved wrong.
    Now thats a tad ott.
    The when applies to you in your one circumstance.Clearly you were put out by it in your one circumstance because you were certain of the parentage.

    That does NOT apply to everybody or maybe even half of everybody.
    I'm sensing a lot of bitterness in your last few posts on this topic which is in itself is unhelpfull I think in a pi reply because it's projecting your ISSUES onto someone else.

    You should get over it.

    OP - my advice is to Go to Oz as you had planned.The girl is a ONS who you hardly know so get that test done and deal with the consequences afterwards.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 829 ✭✭✭McGinty


    Just a question.. I know ethically blah blah, but is he legally obliged to do anything about it? I mean could he not just ditch his phone and run off and live his life? It's a different story if he wants to be able to see the kid but otherwise?

    Yes the Op could ditch his phone and run off, but taxpayers then have to fit the bill and the child will have no father.

    Op unless you take full responsibility for your fertility, things like this will happen and you will have to accept the problems that come with it. I do think you should go to Oz regardless and like somone else suggested once you know the results of the paternity test you can take it from there but you need to take responsibility for your actions. For as long as each gender blames the other about unwanted pregnancies, problems like this will keep occuring.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,203 ✭✭✭partyguinness


    The paternity test is there for a reason so requesting one is not unreasonable and nothing to apologise for.

    If you sleep with a girl on a one night stand I think it is fair to assume she prob does it on a regular basis so one is justified in being absolutely concerned.

    Granted taking a swab in a hotel is a tad insensitive but sometimes its best to hard nosed in certain circumstances/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Wibbs wrote: »
    .

    Maybe I'm taking this up wrong and apologies if I am, but how would a post like that be greeted if a man wrote; "after a bad experience with a single mother I would be extremely reluctant to go out with another and there is no way on earth I would go out with a woman who put her child up for adoption or had an abortion and I think most men would feel that way". He would be rightfully slated. I'm sorry but that smacks of a serious double standard.

    I can see your point here, but the difference is that when a child is aborted or given up for adoption the child is no longer accessible. When the child is still in the hands of a biological parent and the other one rejects them or has whatever version of an abortion they can come up with [fleeing]most likely] the child is still accessible and the absent parent is denying the child its access to its parentage. If a mother abandoned her child or never saw the child while the child was in custody of the father, I doubt it would sit comfortably with many men.

    ANd I know the stress you are talking about all too well. The thing about it is if you are the custodial parent you cant just walk away with the child because the other parent is sending you on prozac precription, whereas the non custodial parent can do that. And the stress of raising the child ontop of everything else it far from easy. As for the consulted onnothing but money matters, in some instances that is really all they have any authority to consult on because its the only thing that is backed up legally. For example, when I informed my sons father he would need surgery I was told there was no point in me telling him these things since he had no say over them. Shrug. What can you do?

    That is an awful shame that they wanted to be parents and all the stress put them off. This certainly wasnt the case in my situation, well the stress put both of us off any notion of co-parenting, but his ambivalence and flip flopping was far more destructive than fleeing the scene of the crime. But after no input into the child's life for the first six months of his life and a refusal of guardianship as well as refusing to name himself on the birthcert after he got his dna results, I received a contract demanding full rights and more for 2 hours of access every 5 weeks. Well, I just had it. To this day I often think it would have been better if I had just snuck out quietly after he put an onscreen budget for an abortion, and never looked back, never told him what I did with the child or anything about him. It would have saved us all a lot of grief but perhaps replaced it with a different kind of grief. Who knows.

    As for the OP, well, he will have to think about this, does he do the closest thing he can do an abortion and flee, or does he stick around? I dont think he has to worry about this yet until he talks to the girl. I do think you should go to OZ, but also be comfortable that you will not be at the birth, nor have a choice in naming the child.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    As for the OP, well, he will have to think about this, does he do the closest thing he can do an abortion and flee, or does he stick around? I dont think he has to worry about this yet until he talks to the girl. I do think you should go to OZ, but also be comfortable that you will not be at the birth, nor have a choice in naming the child.
    The rather emotive part [in bold -my emphasis of your post] is unnecessary I think.
    It's more projection of your feelings due to your perception of your situation.
    In my opinion - once or twice is enough for that to creep into advice on this topic but not in several posts-it looks like a crusade with all due respect.

    As for the OP,the nice thing to do I think,would be to carry on with his life [he may like a lot of people be only down in Oz for 1 or 2 years] whilst at the same time dealing with the situation via a paternity test.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,361 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    But they should still apologise after they take the bristle swab to the baby's cheek, hold down the squirming baby, and send its dna in the post to a lab, and calling its mother either a liar or a stupid whore by the deed itself, and having the arrogance to think their paternity is worth lying about [especially when you come from a country in which paternity fraud gets you incarcerated].

    Seriously, if you swab an infant and question the mother's [psycho or not psycho] honesty, you should apologise when you are proved wrong.

    Metro that comment is well OTT.
    The guy had a one night stand with this woman, he doesn't know her from Adam. Therefore he is well within his rights to ask for a dna test, it's certainly nothing to apologise for and he'd be more than stupid not to ask for one.
    The woman could just be mistaken, that doesn't mean she is either a liar or a stupid whore.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Black briar- No not really. When the father to be or putative father or potential father, feels they have no choice as to whether or not to be a father, that is there option, whereas women can abort when they want dont want to be mothers. Fleeing is the closest thing a man can do to having an abortion. That is their option, at least in countries where you cant vacate paternity.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,375 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Beruthiel wrote: »
    Metro that comment is well OTT.
    The guy had a one night stand with this woman, he doesn't know her from Adam. Therefore he is well within his rights to ask for a dna test, it's certainly nothing to apologise for and he'd be more than stupid not to ask for one.
    The woman could just be mistaken, that doesn't mean she is either a liar or a stupid whore.

    Beruthial, I am not saying he is outside of his philosophical rights or that he shouldnt ask for one, Im just saying he should ask nicely and then apologise. The alternative is pissing her off, she doesnt consent, he refuses maintenance, it goes to court, he demands the dna test, the court orders it through official labs which cost a lot of money, and the court makes him pay for it. It is in HIS interest to be nice about this.

    Surely if she were confused she would tell him she isnt sure?


Advertisement