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Why can people not understand the Price disparity north/south re: debenhams

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24

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    #32
    trellheim
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭trellheim


    Your argument in this respect holds water if the product only has a label for 25 euro. In this case it is labelled twice, once in sterling, once in euro.

    They are offering the product for sale for that amount of sterling, not me.

    Now if there was a big sign at the entrance saying "Ignore all the Sterling Signs, we do not propose to honour these sales offers" fair enough.


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    #33
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    trellheim wrote: »
    Your argument in this respect holds water if the product only has a label for 25 euro. In this case it is labelled twice, once in sterling, once in euro.
    once again... why should people who do understand the differences have to suffer and for these retards.

    i.e. dual pricing results in lower prices for people on both sides, due to economies of scale. They just get one label printed up, they can sell it in € or £ zones, so can freely move merchandise around without the added cost of relabelling. Dual pricing should result in a lower priced product.
    trellheim wrote: »
    They are offering the product for sale for that amount of sterling
    They are not, go to the counter and they will tell you so, they can refuse the euro price too BTW.
    trellheim wrote: »
    Now if there was a big sign at the entrance saying "Ignore all the Sterling Signs, we do not propose to honour these sales offers"
    I would be disgusted to see a shop having to waste money on signage for morons who cannot get their head around the fact stuff varies in price in different countries. That sign will be paid for by everybody, I do not want the cost of producing a sign for idiots included in my products. It is also an insult to (most) peoples intelligence.

    It would be like going to a specialist newsagent in Japan and trying to pay for todays Irish Times in euro at the quoted euro price, you would be laughed out of the shop, and rightly so.


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    #34
    shifers
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭shifers


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    What woud you expect to happen? they are not gonna drop the price as they are unable to do so. Why wait in line with a dual priced item knowing you are going to complain and then feel all self righteous and walk out? We know its crap but then some people just like complaining and stamping their feet it appears.

    Guess I just like stamping my feet then. :-) I'm thinking bigger picture, if enough people say to staff - I would buy this, but your pricing is ridiculous and frankly, insulting, I would hope it would sink in... Though this may all lead to the British multiples leaving Ireland (80s all over again), leading to jobs losses. Bit of a vicious circle, so I don't really know...


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    #35
    boopolo
    Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭boopolo


    Why cant people educate themselves on this whole thing?
    The ones who complain are the educated ones. They do so in the hope that the staff will relay their feedback to management.

    The excuses the compay tells their staff to give to customers is a pack of lies. I feel sorry for the staff.

    Taking account of the higher costs in Dublin compared to Belfast, the average price of goods should be no more than 5% more in Dublin. Fact. London has on average the same overheads as Dublin, so the prices should be the same. Read here

    When the Euro was only worth 75p the labels corresponded closely to the exchange rate. At that time the UK companies were making more profit here than in most uk stores. Now that their sales in the UK are in freefall, they see Ireland suckers as way to re-coup those loses.


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    #36
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    shifers wrote: »
    Guess I just like stamping my feet then. :-) I'm thinking bigger picture, if enough people say to staff - I would buy this, but your pricing is ridiculous and frankly, insulting, I would hope it would sink in... Though this may all lead to the British multiples leaving Ireland (80s all over again), leading to jobs losses. Bit of a vicious circle, so I don't really know...

    Wow, the price of goods is insulting to you? do you walk into mcdonalds and think 'the price of a big mac is a real slap in the face to me'!!

    Listen roaring at somebody who is just trying to get through the work day without anybody hassling them is not gonna get anywhere and the only conversation between staff about it will be like so

    employee 1. "did you see your one i had some banging on about the sterling again today, really stroppy cnut they were as if its my fault"

    Manager. "Friggin getting it all day from muppets screamin about .96 exchange, anyway see you tommorow"

    Nothing will come of complaining to shop staff and its a really ineffective way to get your point across as they will forget about it five minutes later as they will still be busy dealing with rational people.


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    #37
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    boopolo wrote: »
    The ones who complain are the educated ones. They do so in the hope that the staff will relay their feedback to management.

    The excuses the compay tells their staff to give to customers is a pack of lies. I feel sorry for the staff.

    Taking account of the higher costs in Dublin compared to Belfast, the average price of goods should be no more than 5% more in Dublin. Fact. London has on average the same overheads as Dublin, so the prices should be the same. Read here

    When the Euro was only worth 75p the labels corresponded closely to the exchange rate. At that time the UK companies were making more profit here than in most uk stores. Now that their sales in the UK are in freefall, they see Ireland suckers as way to re-coup those loses.

    Moaning on a shop floor is not effective complaining, escalating your complaint to the highest level possible in an articulate and clear manner is.

    To be fair any report produced by a state body is to be taken with a pinch of salt at the moment. But if this sort of thing brings the prices down then happy days for everybody.


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    #38
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,820 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    People who complain to floor staff are more over making a show of themselves and love to hear their own voice.

    Floor staff are there just to do their working day and go home. They DONT set pricing and CANT effect company policy.

    So in essence DONT make a show of yourself, DONT shop there, DO contact the relevant higher department that can affect company policy.

    Chances are most normal people in the long queue behind your are saying "what an ar**ho**" or "that woman is a right b***h"

    So your pointless stance at standing in the queue knowing full well your heading to the teller to complain makes you look more of a fool. Cop on.


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    #39
    egan007
    Registered Users Posts: 2,934 ✭✭✭egan007


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    The gf's mum works in debenhams blanch and was telling me today that nearly every customer is whinging on about the sterling prices on the goods, people trying to pay in sterling then getting stroppy when they cant etc.

    Why cant people educate themselves on this whole thing? she actually had someone walk away from the till without paying in a strop today over this, the customer obviously thought they were right etc but jesus christ is it so hard to understand the higher vat rate, higher wages, higher costs and the fact that the stock was bought months ago at a worse sterling rate??

    Im not defending debenhams as they oviously stick a bit on for themselves but walking out of a shop in a huff because they wouldnt give you an exchange rate you liked is ridculous.

    Just thought i would vent.

    Explain it to me again....I'm as thick as a plank.

    I'm off to Newry - take that regression. i'll show this eegonomic climate.

    I'm sick of this climate change issue.


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    #40
    bobzee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭bobzee


    I agree with the original poster in that people here do not stop to think about the differences in the costs of doing business here and in the North.

    However my reponse to anybody complaining about UK stores ripping us off is simple, 'Shop in an Irish store'. I know people are going to bang on here about how Irish stores have been ripping us off too. However I know people in the retail sector here and in order for them to compete with the UK high street stores, their margins have to be extremely tight. They simply do not have the same economies of scale or purchasing power that the UK chains do.

    I for one have always shopped in an Irish owned store when I can, and I think more people may start to when they see how UK stores have been ripping us off.

    Of course most people's answer is to travel north to shop, fair enough its a freedom of choice thing. However I dont want to hear to same people whinging when lots of their friends/relations are losing their jobs here because the retail sector, and all dependant businesses are closing.


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    #41
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    egan007 wrote: »
    Explain it to me again....I'm as thick as a plank.

    I'm off to Newry - take that regression. i'll show this eegonomic climate.

    I'm sick of this climate change issue.


    Sjit guvnor you cant be think as a plank if your heading to newry, just spend spend spend.


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    #42
    boopolo
    Registered Users Posts: 578 ✭✭✭boopolo


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    To be fair any report produced by a state body is to be taken with a pinch of salt at the moment. But if this sort of thing brings the prices down then happy days for everybody.
    And what? You beleive these companies when they they say the opposite to this report.
    They have been saying that its so expensive to do business here and yet the stores here are (were) making big profits from their Irish branches. They compare Dublin vs. say Manchester or Belfast. They never actually mention that it is more expensive to have a shop in London than in Dublin.


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    #43
    ch750536
    Registered Users Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭ch750536


    timothy%20goes%20to%20school.jpg

    That was fun.


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    #44
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    boopolo wrote: »
    And what? You beleive these companies when they they say the opposite to this report.
    They have been saying that its so expensive to do business here and yet the stores here are (were) making big profits from their Irish branches. They compare Dublin vs. say Manchester or Belfast. They never actually mention that it is more expensive to have a shop in London than in Dublin.

    Hang on a second buddy i never defended the prices i gave valid reasons why they would be different so get off your high horse and stop preaching at me. If people dont like the prices then dont pay them...fu*k sake.

    I believe neither the goverments hyperbole nor the marketing men so give over.

    Heres a thought....were was this report for the past five years? the goverment of this country done nothing to help the consumer for the past 5-10 years and now we are expected to believe a report that has been generated that calls for price reductions etc its all very convienient in my eyes. The droves of people leaving the country to shop has finally made the goverment realise that we wont stand for it anymore.

    This is my last post in this thread as it has run its course.


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    #45
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    boopolo wrote: »
    Taking account of the higher costs in Dublin compared to Belfast, the average price of goods should be no more than 5% more in Dublin. Fact. London has on average the same overheads as Dublin, so the prices should be the same.
    "fact" according to one survey, which is probably very simplistic as usual, like most peoples ideas of why stuff should be the same price here
    The study looked at retail business costs to determine how their cost base compared with retailers in other jurisdictions.
    I wonder what costs and other factors were taken into account.
    In comparing Dublin and Belfast, the study found that while operating costs in Dublin were on average 25% higher than Belfast. But the study said operating costs accounted for only 20% to 25% of the total cost of a retail good, so such costs could only justify a 5% to 6% price difference between Dublin and Belfast.
    Sounds like these are preVAT/duty prices, and also presuming the goods cost the retailer the EXACT same to buy and have delivered etc, bit of a stupid and pointless exercise TBH.

    Seems strange that we do not have UK shopkeepers all selling up and opening shops here if they really are onto such a winner here.


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    #46
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    I don't know. It sure isn't very intelligent and not very effective either screaming at the young one behind the till but she's the one I'm interacting with so why not tell her. If she hears that 5 times a day - and I'm sure she will - she will tell her supervisor and the supervisor will tell her manager etc.

    I don't give a **** about accountants and how they operate. I bet if it was to their disadvantage they'd be changing the rates like a shot.

    And I don't care about this VAT rate rubbish talk either. The rate is 21.5% here and 15% there. For a 100 Pound (105 Euro) item the difference is just over a fiver, why the hell does the 100 pound item cost 159 Euro in the Irish outlet?

    Since I came to this country I always found that retail prices are pretty steep here compared to mainland Europe and at first I put it down to lack of competition since everybody told me how this is such a small country blablabla. But after a while it seemed to me that there was no real intention to compete as it was all very cushy and worked out just fine for the retailers. This held up as long as the next door neighbours (UK) exchange rate and price levels didn't put any pressure on the retailers but those days are gone and with internet purchases on the rise we actually have some competition now. Also I think the Irish consumers are becoming more clever as they have increasingly more options and the retailers will simply have to live with that.

    As competition is the motor of capitalism and capitalism is our undisputed world religion these days this surely must be a good thing, right?


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    #47
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    trellheim wrote: »
    There at least is some point here.

    If I advertise a product for 20 quid sterling and also 25 quid euro, both labels on the product , I then shouldn't refuse if someone hands me an english 20 and says "there you go squire"

    Of course you shouldn't, if your tills are programmed to accept sterling. If they're not, like the tills in a lot of places, how exactly are you expected to do it?

    The 'young one behind the till' is most likely not going to pass on complaints, that's not her job.


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    #48
    the groutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    the change in exchange rates has been very sudden, so fashion retailers haven't had proper time to adjust their prices accordingly
    I expect alot of clothes retailers to narrow their exchange rates after the january sales to remain competitive (eg. £25 will be €35 instead of the current €39)


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    #49
    jahalpin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭jahalpin


    trellheim wrote: »
    Your argument in this respect holds water if the product only has a label for 25 euro. In this case it is labelled twice, once in sterling, once in euro.

    They are offering the product for sale for that amount of sterling, not me.

    Now if there was a big sign at the entrance saying "Ignore all the Sterling Signs, we do not propose to honour these sales offers" fair enough.

    They are offering the product in sterling in the United Kingdom, where it is the legal tender of the country.

    The Republic of Ireland is not part of the United Kingdom, but is a SMALL independent country to the west of the island of Britain and to the south of the Provence of Northern Ireland.

    The shops have absolutely no obligation to accept the current of a different country (We had the chance to be a part of the United Kingdom, but chose not to, so this is one of the consequences of that decision)

    The costs involved in doing business in the Republic are far higher than in the UK (rent, rates, wages etc). As the ROI is a separate country, transport costs are higher as the hauliers have to cross an international border. The administration costs are also higher due to the smaller number of branches to absorb the costs involved in running a company. The very low populaiton density of the Republic also leads to increased transportation and distribution costs.


    The sterling price is also based on the VAT charged in the UK

    A lot of shops in the Republic, eg Easons, will accept sterling notes at the shops rate of exchange, which is reviewed every few months rather than daily. Items such as magazines have different VAT rules than in the UK so the price will always be higher here due to the VAT charged on these goods.


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    #50
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    jahalpin wrote: »
    The costs involved in doing business in the Republic are far higher than in the UK (rent, rates, wages etc). As the ROI is a separate country, transport costs are higher as the hauliers have to cross an international border. The administration costs are also higher due to the smaller number of branches to absorb the costs involved in running a company. The very low populaiton density of the Republic also leads to increased transportation and distribution costs.

    Sorry, but I think this is bull**** and I'm sick listening to this. They simply charge much higher prices because they can, because people have been paying these prices without engaging their brains for much too long.

    On rent, rates, wages etc. Are you simply parroting what the retailers organizations are coming up with all the time or can you actually back that up? Minimum wage is higher fair enough but only since the Sterling dropped before that it was pretty much the same. Rates? Ok, we have rates but the UK has much higher corporate tax rates. Rent? I don't know one would need some statistics on that but I find it hard to believe that in a 'small independent low population density' country rents on average are much higher than in a big industrialized high population density country like the UK. The VAT difference actually exists its 6.5% which is a little under a fiver for a product costing 100 Sterling. How come the same product costs 159 Euro here?

    International border my arse. What's the difference between driving from Belfast to Dublin and driving from Dublin to Cork? F*ck all. I wasn't aware that you actually have to pay moneys for crossing this international border. I guess must be the waiting in the long queues at these really strict border checkpoints where they fleece your lorry for hours. Ludicrous.

    With regards to the small country, smaller population, low density stuff. These companies made a conscious decision to set up branches in the ROI. They sure made cost analysis and viability studies on where to set up branches and where not. If it wasn't profitable they wouldn't have set them up. If it was profitable to sell at 1.5 Euro/1 Sterling rates when the Sterling actually was 1.5 Euro then I don't care what you say they are creaming the currency gain off the top now that 1 Euro is 1 Sterling.


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    #51
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    Bear in mind too that most high street fashion outlets are adding 100% profit on the purchase price of the items they sell, compared to less than 10% in the case of the grocery trade. There's plenty of room for price reductions there even when operational costs are absorbed.


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    #52
    Lplated
    Registered Users Posts: 372 ✭✭Lplated


    If you look at the recent study carried out for Mary Coughlan (widely reported in yesterday's [Sunday] papers - they say that while there are 25% differences in some costs down here, the proportion of those costs to the overall costs amounts to only 5 or 6 %.

    So while retailers can point to large cost differences in some areas (esp wages and rent), study says that that should only amount to an overall difference of 5 or 6%, thus it seems that even the retailers cost argument doesn't hold up.


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    #53
    Ste.phen
    Registered Users Posts: 2,808 ✭✭✭Ste.phen


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    Its simply a case of DONT SHOP THERE and if enough people do this then th epenny should drop.

    Not shopping there tells them nothing: Starting to shop there, then leaving stuff behind at the till when they try to rip you off eventually bubbles up to the top.

    That said, they'd probably just remove the STG price, not lower the euro price.


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    #54
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    Lplated wrote: »
    If you look at the recent study carried out for Mary Coughlan (widely reported in yesterday's [Sunday] papers - they say that while there are 25% differences in some costs down here, the proportion of those costs to the overall costs amounts to only 5 or 6 %.

    So while retailers can point to large cost differences in some areas (esp wages and rent), study says that that should only amount to an overall difference of 5 or 6%, thus it seems that even the retailers cost argument doesn't hold up.


    This "study" is a little late in the day now to be fair, why wasnt the goverment championing the little guys cause for the ten years we were being shafted left right and centre before all the money started heading up north and out of the irish economy? I would not believe a word of the "study" purely because of its source.


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    #55
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    GF's mum was round for coffee last night after another day dealing with middle aged men trying to pay in sterling and throwing hissy fits at the till she told me a guy made a shop assistant cry after roaring at them for five minutes about 'being ripped off' by them and demanding to pay in sterling....as if its the shop girls fault that the exchange is all over the place!!!


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    #56
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    Maybe the girl should have sent the customer to the manager or got him/her for the customer? Cry baby's don't belong in customer-service roles.


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    #57
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    Red Alert wrote: »
    Maybe the girl should have sent the customer to the manager or got him/her for the customer? Cry baby's don't belong in customer-service roles.

    Agressive people should stay out of shops if they cant make a simple purchase without throwing a childish wobbler.


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    #58
    lisbon_lions
    Registered Users Posts: 517 ✭✭✭lisbon_lions


    People are entitled to express their grievances with these outlets. I was in debenhams last February and noticed a ridiculous markup on the euro value to the sterling value, whilst i didnt have a 'hissy fit' with the till lady, i did walk away to send a concerned email to both the head of debenhams in london and cc'd the consumers' association of Ireland in on the mail (http://www.consumerassociation.ie/index.html if anyone wants the address) stating my experiences. They got back to me (both parties), the CAI stating that they were at the time (im sure they still are) inundated with such complaints and that one should vote with their feet. Debenhams stated it was due to extra costs in Ireland and the difference in exchange rates at the time of stock order. By that logic, I would expect springs fashions to be at or near parity then so? I guess I will not find out as I will not be back...

    The OP is welcomed to pay over the top prices on goods that he knows are cheaper elsewhere, i'm glad money grows on his tree.


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    #59
    Jaysoose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,212 ✭✭✭Jaysoose


    lisbon_lions wrote: »
    People are entitled to express their grievances with these outlets. I was in debenhams last February and noticed a ridiculous markup on the euro value to the sterling value, whilst i didnt have a 'hissy fit' with the till lady, i did walk away to send a concerned email to both the head of debenhams in london and cc'd the consumers' association of Ireland in on the mail (http://www.consumerassociation.ie/index.html if anyone wants the address) stating my experiences. They got back to me (both parties), the CAI stating that they were at the time (im sure they still are) inundated with such complaints and that one should vote with their feet. Debenhams stated it was due to extra costs in Ireland and the difference in exchange rates at the time of stock order. By that logic, I would expect springs fashions to be at or near parity then so? I guess I will not find out as I will not be back...

    The OP is welcomed to pay over the top prices on goods that he knows are cheaper elsewhere, i'm glad money grows on his tree.

    Yay....another poster that cant be bothered to read the thread past the title then slag off the OP (me)!!! Im gonna shout the next bit then leave the trhead altogether as its pissing me off.

    I NEVER DEFENDED THE PRICES >>>>>> I SAID THAT PEOPLE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THERE COULD BE A DIFFERENCE AND IF THEY DONT LIKE THE PRICE THEN EITHER COMPLAIN EFFECTIVELY OR WALK AWAY.


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    #60
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users Posts: 7,955 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    Jaysoose wrote: »
    GF's mum was round for coffee last night after another day dealing with middle aged men trying to pay in sterling and throwing hissy fits at the till she told me a guy made a shop assistant cry after roaring at them for five minutes about 'being ripped off' by them and demanding to pay in sterling....as if its the shop girls fault that the exchange is all over the place!!!

    That's an argument for not letting ignorant people roam the streets.It has nothing to do with sterling conversion rates.People who chose to conduct themselves like that could just as easily be roaring at shop assistants over the weather or because they can't squeeze into a size 8.


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    #61
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,379 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Lplated wrote: »
    So while retailers can point to large cost differences in some areas (esp wages and rent), study says that that should only amount to an overall difference of 5 or 6%, thus it seems that even the retailers cost argument doesn't hold up.
    No, simplifying it the way that study does not hold up. Has anybody a link to the actual study, it sounded seriously flawed from what I heard, seemed to presume stuff cost the exact same to get on a shelf, and I also presume they were talking of pretax prices.

    WHat does not add up is why all these retailers in the UK and the north are not all selling up shop and moving down here. Also why are all the whingers not packing in their jobs and opening retail stores, after all the retailers here are made out to have a licence to print money and rob people :rolleyes:
    Jaysoose wrote: »
    GF's mum was round for coffee last night after another day dealing with middle aged men trying to pay in sterling and throwing hissy fits at the till she told me a guy made a shop assistant cry after roaring at them for five minutes about 'being ripped off' by them and demanding to pay in sterling
    Assholes, and I bet the same middleaged men have gladly paid for other dual priced products for decades without once screaming at the shopkeeper, i.e. for newspapers, magazines & books, almost all of which are multicurrency priced. Ignorant fools like that sicken me, I hope they are teaching schoolchildren about this, a toddler could grasp the concept...


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