The wind that shakes the barley

stovelid · 15-12-2008 06:14PM

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

The song ('the Wind that Shakes the Barley') is beautiful aswell, although it's about the 1798 Rebellion.
.

Like the Clancy Bros version best.

I didn't watch the whole thing last night, and can't remember (from the first time I watched it) if it's in the film. Think it's only the old dear singing it at the young lads wake?

stovelid · 15-12-2008 06:22PM

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

A bit like 'Schindler's List', right?

See your point, but I think that historical sweep of TWTSTB is far broader, insofar that it tries to cover an lot of history, as opposed to focusing on a human drama against a backdrop of war.

That said, I never like historical films where anybody - historical baddies or goodies - are rendered in a way as to amplify their badness or goodness, although I'm sure there is often ample basis for doing so.

Borneo Fnctn · 15-12-2008 06:28PM

Good Movie I say. The inaccuracies are forgivable.

15-12-2008 06:35PM

mike65 wrote: »

If you wish to vent your Brit-bashing maybe the History/Heritage forum is for you (it contains little else!)

Its worth saying it took a BRITISH company to film the story.

Its worth pointing out that more died in the civil war than fighting the Brits during the war of independence...so typical for us Irish to screw things up so badly. Why didnt we:

A) not have a civil war
or

if we were so intent on bloodshed join forces and take the North?

lamps, all of us! :eek:

Shacklebolt · 15-12-2008 06:35PM

If you were born in the UK I'd point you towards the local BNP office, is there an Irish equivalent yet?

Its called Sinn Fein.

Easiest joke ever, I dont even have anything against Sinn Fein but I couldnt resist.

Nodin · 15-12-2008 06:56PM

Shacklebolt wrote: »

Its called Sinn Fein.

I was expecting "Libertas"....

damonjewel · 15-12-2008 06:56PM

Shacklebolt wrote: »

'A quick history of Anglo-Irish conflict'... Now thats a film I would like to see! I insist on playing Wolfe Tone for the 30 seconds he would be in it.

No robert emmett for me, he's the one with the best lines

15-12-2008 07:01PM

This post has been deleted.

Photi · 15-12-2008 07:04PM

The Scientist wrote: »

I thinks its a fantastic film. Cillian Murphy was superb in it and might i remind those who didn't care for it that its the only Irish Film to win the Palme D'or.
We'll probably have to wait 800 years to win another...

Isn't it a British film?

irish_bob · 15-12-2008 07:06PM

BoardsRanger wrote: »

I thought it was more socailist film and it focused in more on the civil war aspects.

+1

it had the usual socilist preachings you see in nearly all ken loach films , the only thing that will change is the accents of the ruling class

15-12-2008 07:23PM

This post has been deleted.

Dob74 · 15-12-2008 07:23PM

The Scientist wrote: »

I thinks its a fantastic film. Cillian Murphy was superb in it and might i remind those who didn't care for it that its the only Irish Film to win the Palme D'or.
We'll probably have to wait 800 years to win another...

+1
Class film, dont know why there was such a backlash in the media against this film. Don't see why it would provoke any nationalist feeling all the story lines are extermly close to history.
Its just the usual west brit brigade who hate this film. Since it was wriiten by a Scot and directed by an English man can't see why people call this pro IRA

Dudess · 15-12-2008 07:32PM

God how I hate the term "West Brit".

Sarah** wrote: »

i had the whole hate for the British again and I could really understand how the IRA was formed and why there is such hate towards the British in older generations.

The British establishment I presume?

Iang87 wrote: »

i will never like them

All the British? Seriously, very backwards thinking.

I'm a moderate republican by the way.

PurpleFistMixer · 15-12-2008 07:32PM

Sarah** wrote: »

I dont know if anyone feels the same but just thought id open up the topic for discussion!! - Im dont usually have any feeling on the situation but lastnight and this morning i did!

A lot of people do, you just won't find too many around here.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 15-12-2008 07:35PM

Great film, really liked it. Murphy was fab in it too. The film drove a lot of realities home. How friends fought friends and all that. It made my blood boil though

Being patriotic, it made me really want to be a part of it (history, not the film)

dlofnep · 15-12-2008 07:38PM

It was a great movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Given the pro-treaty outlook from Michael Collins, it was nice to see the opposite spectrum.

Feelgood · 15-12-2008 07:40PM

They could have put a better name on it though. It sounds like a David Attenborough special.

Should've just called it Steve.

dlofnep · 15-12-2008 07:42PM

Shacklebolt wrote: »

Its called Sinn Fein.

Easiest joke ever, I dont even have anything against Sinn Fein but I couldnt resist.

It would be funny, except the BNP are a right-wing, foreigner hating who are patriotic for the wrong reasons.

Sinn Féin are a left wing party, who welcome foreign nationals and fight for workers rights.

I would argue that Fine Gael are more akin to the BNP than Sinn Féin after the likes of comments made by Leo Varadkar. It was however alright for his very own family to come to Ireland and live a good life.

Shacklebolt · 15-12-2008 07:47PM

dlofnep wrote: »

It would be funny, except the BNP are a right-wing, foreigner hating who are patriotic for the wrong reasons.

Sinn Féin are a left wing party, who welcome foreign nationals and fight for workers rights.

I would argue that Fine Gael are more akin to the BNP than Sinn Féin after the likes of comments made by Leo Varadkar. It was however alright for his very own family to come to Ireland and live a good life.

I know their policies are very different, it was just a cheap shot. We dont really have a BNP equivelent here.

midlandsmissus · 15-12-2008 07:49PM

Sarah** wrote: »

Hi All,

Totally random thread and not like me to begin them at all but here goes....

Im just venting... After watching the film last night on TV3, the patriotic feeling came over me and i had the whole hate for the British again and I could really understand how the IRA was formed and why there is such hate towards the British in older generations.

I dont know if anyone feels the same but just thought id open up the topic for discussion!! - Im dont usually have any feeling on the situation but lastnight and this morning i did!

Sarah isn't it so much easier though to be from a country that was the victim in the past than to be from a country that was the opressor. How would you feel if you were from england? And people kept saying to you about all the bad things you did in the past. and you're like eh it WASNT ME, it was A HUNDRED years ago. I have family in england and they get abuse every time they come over here. Whereas I get a brilliant reception anytime I go to england. it really annoys me.

And did you not see the end of the film, where the irish government signed over six counties to england? and the civil war - where the irish killed each other? No country is blameless.

I hate victimisation and bullying of other countries. It's in the past. The present english didn't do it to us.

dlofnep · 15-12-2008 07:50PM

I read a few posts from some guy called "craobh gal greine". I'm not sure if it's a group or not - but they would certainly be the BNP equiv here if it is so.. There's quite a few BNP minded people here.. Usually they post over on the irish equiv of stormfront. I'm not going to post the address as I refuse to give those idiots the free advertising.

Shane-1 · 15-12-2008 08:14PM

Wind that Shakes the Barley is a fantastic film. It portrays the situation in Ireland at the time fantastically well and is very historically accurate. Certainly is'nt a romantic version of our struggle for freedom and certainly is'nt a heap of drivel, propoganda and historical inaccuracys as was Michael Collins by Jordan.

I have to disagree with the comment about leaving all this in the past etc and that this film is bullying of the English and how would we feel if we were English etc. First off we have a right to celebrate and remember our history, second - if the British appear bad in the film this is because they were quite bad to us at the time and third - before blasting the film as anti English and telling us we should leave this all in the past, maybe it should be mentioned that this film is from a British director backed by an assortment of international companies?

midlandsmissus · 15-12-2008 08:28PM

Shane-1 wrote: »

Wind that Shakes the Barley is a fantastic film. It portrays the situation in Ireland at the time fantastically well and is very historically accurate. Certainly is'nt a romantic version of our struggle for freedom and certainly is'nt a heap of drivel, propoganda and historical inaccuracys as was Michael Collins by Jordan.

I have to disagree with the comment about leaving all this in the past etc and that this film is bullying of the English and how would we feel if we were English etc. First off we have a right to celebrate and remember our history, second - if the British appear bad in the film this is because they were quite bad to us at the time and third - before blasting the film as anti English and telling us we should leave this all in the past, maybe it should be mentioned that this film is from a British director backed by an assortment of international companies?

eh shane 1 what are you on about? I wasn't blasting the film at all. Could you read my post before you comment next time. I was replying to the op's post saying she had the 'hate for england again'.

I'm just saying it's very easy to play the victim. You'll find if you go up the north, the catholics up there actually blast all the people down south and say 'you left us to the english, and, 'you sat on your arses down there and sold us over to the english, why didn't you help us up here'. In the north they don't blame the english, they blame eamon devalera for signing them over to the english. I worked in northern ireland for a long time and heard this many many times.

It just annoys me when people play the martyr. nobody is blameless, but it was all a hundred years ago and people should be moving on by now!

Shane-1 · 15-12-2008 08:45PM

Eamon Devalera signed over the north? huh, how? I dont get that? Devalera signed nothing, his name is'nt on the treaty, nor is it on any of the agreements regarding the boundary commission. Also he was but 4 years of age when the partition of the country was first debated, cant see how you can blame him for the partition. In fact didnt he reject the treaty based on partition? We best buy those northeys some history books. We had no choice to sign for partition at the time, it may seem that I am defending Dev, I'm defending Collins et al also, their hand was forced, they werent allowed to bring treaty home to Dev and parliament before signing. Also, realistically, the north were never going to accept being part of a united Ireland, they had demonstrated that quite clearly over the previous 40 odd years.

I've been up the north too, never heard the likes of that before, and I've relations in England and they got nothing but abuse for years for being Irish, same I guess as muslims get now.

midlandsmissus · 15-12-2008 08:59PM

Shane-1 wrote: »

Eamon Devalera signed over the north? huh, how? I dont get that? Devalera signed nothing, his name is'nt on the treaty, nor is it on any of the agreements regarding the boundary commission. Also he was but 4 years of age when the partition of the country was first debated, cant see how you can blame him for the partition. In fact didnt he reject the treaty based on partition? We best buy those northeys some history books. We had no choice to sign for partition at the time, it may seem that I am defending Dev, I'm defending Collins et al also, their hand was forced, they werent allowed to bring treaty home to Dev and parliament before signing. Also, realistically, the north were never going to accept being part of a united Ireland, they had demonstrated that quite clearly over the previous 40 odd years.

I've been up the north too, never heard the likes of that before, and I've relations in England and they got nothing but abuse for years for being Irish, same I guess as muslims get now.

Yes I heard the eamon devalera thing many a time. I think they can't really remember the name of the relevant politician when they are talking about the south, so they use the most well known politician.

A few of them even told me that all they were taught about the republic of Ireland in school was that 'we signed them over to the english and we didn't care about them'. I think it depends where you go in northern Ireland. I was working in very disadvantaged areas.

Just about what you said here: We had no choice but to sign for partition at the time

then how come there was so many people fighting not to sign it? so much so that it caused the civil war, and they got overpowered by the irish More irish people killed irish than the english ever did

That's what I'm saying. See what you said about your relations. It's not fair on them. It's not fair on the irish, english or whomever to be sneered at because of their history or whatever. I wouldn't go to germany and be like 'ha you're all murdering b*stards*. I hate it when the english do it to the irish, and the irish do it to the english. But I do find it everywhere.

dlofnep · 15-12-2008 09:00PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I'm just saying it's very easy to play the victim. You'll find if you go up the north, the catholics up there actually blast all the people down south and say 'you left us to the english, and, 'you sat on your arses down there and sold us over to the english, why didn't you help us up here'.

There is a hint of distaste for the Irish Free State. This is true.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

In the north they don't blame the english, they blame eamon devalera for signing them over to the english. I worked in northern ireland for a long time and heard this many many times.

Michael Collins & Arthur Griffith signed the treaty, not Dev. Nobody blames the "English", but rather the British Government.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

It just annoys me when people play the martyr. nobody is blameless, but it was all a hundred years ago and people should be moving on by now!

No, it wasn't 100's of years ago. It started 100's of years ago, and persisted up until recented times. Ballymurphy massacre, Bloody Sunday, along with other countless injustices to the Irish people by British forces. It's quite hard to move on when a sizeable portion in the North do not want association with the British system. The North is under a complex set of circumstances, and for you mutter out something like "moving on" demonstrates a severe lack of understanding of that said situation.

midlandsmissus · 15-12-2008 09:07PM

dlofnep wrote: »

There is a hint of distaste for the Irish Free State. This is true.

Michael Collins & Arthur Griffith signed the treaty, not Dev. Nobody blames the "English", but rather the British Government.

No, it wasn't 100's of years ago. It started 100's of years ago, and persisted up until recented times. Ballymurphy massacre, Bloody Sunday, along with other countless injustices to the Irish people by British forces. It's quite hard to move on when a sizeable portion in the North do not want association with the British system. The North is under a complex set of circumstances, and for you mutter out something like "moving on" demonstrates a severe lack of understanding of that said situation.

Right dlfnop,

Thank you for pointing out the "severe lack of understanding I have about the north"

Considering I
A) Live in the North, and
Work in resolving conflict and peace building programmes in the troubled areas of the North, and
c) liaise with officials on both sides of the divide

I really am not qualified to talk about the issues in the North right now.
I am sure you are indeed much more involved in these matters than me.

Thank you for pointing out my severe ignorance on the subject again.

dlofnep · 15-12-2008 09:13PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Right dlfnop,

Thank you for pointing out the "severe lack of understanding I have about the north"

Considering I
A) Live in the North, and
Work in resolving conflict and peace building programmes in the troubled areas of the North, and
c) liaise with officials on both sides of the divide

I really am not qualified to talk about the issues in the North right now.
I am sure you are indeed much more involved in these matters than me.

Thank you for pointing out my severe ignorance on the subject again.

That very well be. But what you have said does not demonstrate a grasp of reality on the situation. You calmly suggest for people to "move on". A person working on such said programmes should surely understand the great problem with that.

Nationalists do not wish to be apart or under British control. Asking them to move on does not suggest any clear understanding of their beliefs or wishes. Asking people to move on while the British Government fails to accept liability for the categoric murder of Irish civilians in Derry, Belfast and other parts of the 6 counties by British forces, and collusion between loyalist terrorist organisations and British forces.

So tell me exactly what it is that they should move on from? You being the oracle of the North and seer of all things.

Nodin · 15-12-2008 09:16PM

Shane-1 wrote: »

I've been up the north too, never heard the likes of that before, and I've relations in England and they got nothing but abuse for years for being Irish, same I guess as muslims get now.

Indeed. And as we didn't like being ruled by others in our own country, neither do they, whether the boot be Brit, Yank, or Israeli.

Shane-1 · 15-12-2008 09:16PM

well its a tough debate whether they had a choice or not, depends I guess on how serious the English were about sending over their 'immediate and terrible war'. Collins, Griffith et al were put in an impossibly difficult position. Aparantly Devalera saw this coming and this is why he stayed home, he felt that nobody could be forced to sign anything without first informing the President. Thus in theory this would buy time for the Irish to debate over any treaty and nobody could be forced to sign on the spot. This seems to make sense to me, however I know there would be many a person who would hold different opinions to this.

I often wonder if the anti treaty side won the civil war, or had we rejected the theory in the first place, what would have happened? The British werent moving from their terms, and even if they did the North would never accept it. We would have been fighting a civil war against the loyalist North instead. I dont know had the anti treaty side thought ahead very far, much of their arguments were based around ideaology and maybe not reality. Collins' view of the treaty as 'a stepping stone' is pragmatic, if not instantly acceptable to all.

I dont know whether or not to agree with your statement about moving on from the troubles etc, I do believe in maybe 'moving past' them, if we dont do this there will never be progress up north. As the last poster said there has been too much for us to simply move on from, though I guess we must remember that we catholics are responsible for quite a bit of malice also, remember our day of glory at Omagh? I dont think anyone can move on from that type of behaviour, catholic or protestant, loyalist or republican. We are moving past the troubles however, in fact I think we are sneaking our way subtly to a United Ireland, go us!

The wind that shakes the barley

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