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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

  • 05-11-2008 6:52pm
    #1
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Ok there isnt a thread yet for this much needed scheme, so heres one.

    Apparently a decision on the CPO is due on the 7th November. Yes, a Galway paper has reported this, so take it with a pinch of salt.
    A decision on the Galway City Outer Bypass is expected this Friday, 7 November.

    The eagerly awaited decision from An Bord Pleanála has been held up repeatedly for a number of reasons, most recently the mandatory translation into Irish of the planning authority's order.

    According to a spokesman for An Bord Pleanála, the Galway City Outer Bypass is "one of the most complex projects" the board has on its books at the moment.

    "This is a complex case and there's a lot involved. It's a very technical order and that's time consuming to translate. This isn't the first time this has happened; it often does in Gaeltacht areas. Because the Irish version is also a legal document, we have to be satisfied with it legally," he explained.

    Galway Chamber, IBEC West and a number of local representatives, including Frank Fahey, have been supportive of the bypass in the past, but it's now uncertain whether Government funding will be available to complete it due to Budget cutbacks.

    http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/bypass-decision-by-friday/

    Yes, with the cutbacks who knows whats going to happen to this. However, it wasnt specifically on the chop list. Will it be a tolled PPP? Who knows. Being as close as it is (~50km) from the Cappaghtaggle toll on the M6 to Dublin and being that it'll be the 3rd Dublin - Galway toll I doubt it.

    Who knows. All will be revealed I'm sure. What we do know is that this is fairly high on the 'NRA list of priorities'.
    Post edited by marno21 on
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Comments

  • #2
    ohnoigotsick
    Registered Users Posts: 317 ✭✭ohnoigotsick


    think if they tolled it no one would use it


  • #3
    BluntGuy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    This isn't the same paper that reported that the 'next phase of the Gort to Crusheen scheme is set to begin' I hope...

    I'd would've expected them to have a headline like 'Galway Bypass about to get underway in three years time'...

    Anyway, the GB isn't part of the main Dublin-Galway route. It certainly isn't going to be motorway standard, as I've seen a few at-grade roundabouts on it (shorted-sighted perhaps?)...


  • #4
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Plan is to have it grade separated from the Dublin Road to the Western Distributer Link road (new roundabout), then single carriageway (I think) from that roundabout to a new roundabout to the west of Barna.

    That'll do it I think. The biggest thing about this scheme is that you'll be able to get round Galway without ploughing through it.

    Dunno why is really isnt classed as Dublin - Galway... I've always wondered why this isnt part of T21 and yet the Limerick Tunnel is?


  • #5
    nordydan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    Chris_533976 wrote: »
    Plan is to have it grade separated from the Dublin Road to the Western Distributer Link road (new roundabout), then single carriageway (I think) from that roundabout to a new roundabout to the west of Barna.

    That'll do it I think. The biggest thing about this scheme is that you'll be able to get round Galway without ploughing through it.

    Dunno why is really isnt classed as Dublin - Galway... I've always wondered why this isnt part of T21 and yet the Limerick Tunnel is?

    I think its HQDC to the Western Distributer Link road, and DC afterwards (like at Greystones/Waterford orbital etc.) It has junction numbers, so it will probably be motorway.


  • #6
    Poster King
    Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭Poster King


    Tolling this road would be crazy, especially as it has so many junctions. to catch everyone using it you'd have to have several toll booths. If they toll it it will probably be just for those using the new Corrib Bridge I'd imagine, but again I say, tolling by-passes of towns is crazy i.e. M50.
    I have little problem with tolling inter urban motorways as there are viable alternatives - i.e. the old National Primary Routes.


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  • #7
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Poster King wrote: »
    Tolling this road would be crazy, especially as it has so many junctions. to catch everyone using it you'd have to have several toll booths.
    Don't think so. In fact ...
    Poster King wrote: »
    If they toll it it will probably be just for those using the new Corrib Bridge I'd imagine
    I think you're right here. The bridge is the catch all, though for those who want to avoid what will be big traffic jams at the Galway Clinic, they may go as far as the Headford Road (oh what fun we'll have then).

    Of course, there is no access onto the old Tuam road, nor the Monivea Road. This means that people coming from East of Galway City, and working in Ballybrit/Parkmore, where the biggest single concentration of employment is, will have no option but to come off at the Galway Clinic anyway. In fact, thinking more about it, those coming from West of Galway City to Ballybrit will see no advantage to the GCOB either, since they'll have to come off at, at best, the Headford Road and will still get stuck in traffic then anyway.
    Poster King wrote: »
    but again I say, tolling by-passes of towns is crazy i.e. M50.
    You may think it's crazy, and I may agree with you, but no one with the power to do anything is asking for opinions, or are likely to take any heed of them should they be expressed. In fact, the M50 and the Shannon Tunnel show the precedent which suggests that the bridge may indeed be tolled (whether barrier-free or otherwise).
    Poster King wrote: »
    I have little problem with tolling inter urban motorways as there are viable alternatives - i.e. the old National Primary Routes.
    There will be an alternative to the bypass which is to stay on the same roads as they are. This then brings up the question as to how much you value a frustration-reduced journey. If you value it enough to pay the toll, then pay the toll you will. However, as I said above, I don't think it will make a difference for the majority of Galway commuters anyway, having no access to Ballybrit/Parkmore.

    Nor, veering way off-topic, and for the same reason, will the Western Rail Corridor either. Proper bus transport is the only solution.


  • #8
    rekrow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭rekrow


    Looks like it is back to the drawing board for the GCOB. According to this article in the Galway Independent part of the road has been refused planning permission by An Bord Pleanála.

    http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/bypass-blocked/

    Personally I think this is going to make Galway a no go zone for the next 10 years. We can look forward to hearing that the traffic is backing up at the Doughiska roundabout for the coming years. I know even if it was approved there is little chance of it taking off in the current climate but at least if it was approved the plans would be on the shelf ready to go when thing do pick up.

    The only positive is that the road did get planning permission for approximately half the route. This is from the end of the current N6 scheme as far as the N59.


  • #9
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Don't worry about it - Frank Fahey is going to sort it all out :D


  • #10
    rekrow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭rekrow


    serfboard wrote: »
    Don't worry about it - Frank Fahey is going to sort it all out :D

    to be honest I'd say he's a bit relieved. At least there is someone else to blame rather than the government when the road isn't built. If it is the rare protected habitat that they say it is why did they even try and route the road through here. It is amazing that there were so many houses built in this area over the last 10 years if it is so special. Ah well.


  • #11
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Frank has already 'urged' the NRA to announce they will build the approved portion forthwith. How they laughed at Frankeen , but they might announce it all the same :D

    Frank always knew that the NRA always wanted to terminate the N6 Galway Bypass precisely where the ABP permission terminates.

    That is at the N59 .

    The remainder of the Galway Bypass + the proposed new R336 Barna - Rossaveal road is then to be rolled in together into a new super R336 project ...which has two chances of ever happening in my opinion .

    There is another even larger wedge of the self same bog cotton around Spiddle :cool: somewhere together with some rare lichens and whatnots .


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  • #12
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Irish Times piece on the rejection here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1204/1228337391015.html


  • #13
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    My My My . O Cuiv 'urged' the same thing Frank did :D

    From that IT piece
    Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs Éamon Ó Cuív said the decision was "regrettable" but he urged that work begin as soon as possible on the stretch east of the river and that the National Roads Authority and Galway city and county councils meet to find an alternative route west of the Corrib.

    That is the end of the stretch between the N59 and Furbo so . Gormley will never collude in sending a road through a priority habitat !


  • #14
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    rekrow wrote: »
    We can look forward to hearing that the traffic is backing up at the Doughiska roundabout for the coming years.
    What are the chances of the NRA looking into putting a better junction in place at Doughiska where the M6 will join the existing N6 DC?

    That RAB was only supposed to be a temporary terminating point from the M6 from Dublin until such time as the Bypass was built. Seeing as the Bypass won't be built I think they should reconsider this junction. It's not too late, they have started work on it yet..


  • #15
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    rekrow wrote: »
    The only positive is that the road did get planning permission for approximately half the route. This is from the end of the current N6 scheme as far as the N59.

    ...useless!!! IMO

    Without the Western section, I don't think there's any point in doing the Eastern section as it will lead to nowhere basically, unless the N84 Headford Road is more important than I thought.

    There's only one thing for it IMO, block all future building West of the Corrib and gradually retract the urban area there, especially from around the current ring road - the present S4 Corrib bridge such suffice in light of a decline in the West of Galway City. Given that Oranmore is already an isolated suburb, why not expand Galway City Eastwards to same instead, bringing it closer to the AWC etc. Also, there should be ample opportunity to provide for rapid transit such as the GLUAS etc, and without the disruption.

    Now, about the planners/councillors in charge of the recent development around the city - heads should roll!!! :mad:

    Regards!


  • #16
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Ah now, sher they were too busy supplying poisonous drinking water and no heads rolled, poor planning is a wee bit less likely to get heads rolling....

    the junction at Douiskea needs to be upgraded alright, I'd imagine it could be done on the cheap, by having freeflow left turn slips on and off the new M6 outside the roundabout on the eastern side of the junction, and having the left lane northbound on the existing N6 physically separated from the roundabout.

    of course it should be built as a full free flow gsj from the beginning.


  • #17
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    The last thing Galway needs is another ****ing roundabout!

    I think it has always been in the plan to have free flow left turn slips on and off the M6 either side of the roundabout.

    In addition to the free flow left turning slips, I was thinking something along the lines of elevating a very small section (ie - just a simple overbridge that one lane could pass under) of the Southbound N6 carriageway and then you could have a lane from Westbound M6 going under this overbridge and merging onto the Northbound carriageway of the N6 from the right hand side. This would mean all movements for people coming down from Dublin would be free flow.
    Obviously if you're going Northbound on the N6 there would be no way of making a right turn onto the M6 (with there being no roundabout and all) but the next RAB is not far at all so you could easily double back and use the free flow left turn slip from the Southbound N6. I don't think there would be huge volumes wanting to go from Northbound N6 to Eastbound M6 so this wouldn't be a huge problem and would be a much better than having a new RAB at Doughiska.

    Or ideally they could make it fully free flow by having the overbridge on S'Bound N6 that I stated above and having a flyover coming from N'Bound N6 over to Eastbound M6.

    One overbridge for partial free flow.
    One overbridge and a flyover for full free flow.

    Not a huge deal of extra work involved in either of those options, and it would definetly be worth the extra effort in the long run in my opinion.

    Not that I'll be holding my breath at all for that to happen. Unfortunatly, I still fully expect to see a roundabout built there.


  • #18
    serfboard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    There's only one thing for it IMO, block all future building West of the Corrib and gradually retract the urban area there, especially from around the current ring road - the present S4 Corrib bridge such suffice in light of a decline in the West of Galway City. Given that Oranmore is already an isolated suburb, why not expand Galway City Eastwards to same instead, bringing it closer to the AWC etc.

    Agreed. They're "sort of" doing this already in giving planning in areas like Doughiska and around Merlin Park.

    However, that's long-term and won't solve the current traffic problems. So,

    1. Dual the Western Distributor Road (should have been done from the start).
    2. Dual Seamus Quirke/Bishop O'Donnell Road from the roundabout on (there are plans for this already)
    3. Make the left-lane on both sides bus only.
    4. Provide a million (sorry, slight exaggeration :D) buses in the morning going from where people live (Knocknacarra) to where people work (Ballybrit). After all, 87% of Quincentennial bridge traffic is commuter traffic (Bord Pleanala report).
    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    Now, about the planners/councillors in charge of the recent development around the city - heads should roll!!! :mad:

    1. Zone Industrial area on one side of a river.
    2. Zone Residential area on another side of the river.
    3. Provide insufficient public transport for people to get from home to work.

    Result: Only usable bridge gets jammed up with cars.

    Conclusion: How did that happen? We never saw that coming?!?

    I don't blame the planners, though. I've often thought it must be one of the most frustrating jobs in this country. You go to college and learn all about proper planning and sustainable development. Then you get a job in a city/county council and every sustainable project you propose gets shanghai'ed by local councillors keen to enrich their buddies.

    Wonder what stress levels/early death rates/tranquiliser-taking rates are like for Irish planners?


  • #19
    rekrow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 78 ✭✭rekrow


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    ...useless!!! IMO

    Without the Western section, I don't think there's any point in doing the Eastern section as it will lead to nowhere basically, unless the N84 Headford Road is more important than I thought.

    There's only one thing for it IMO, block all future building West of the Corrib and gradually retract the urban area there, especially from around the current ring road - the present S4 Corrib bridge such suffice in light of a decline in the West of Galway City. Given that Oranmore is already an isolated suburb, why not expand Galway City Eastwards to same instead, bringing it closer to the AWC etc. Also, there should be ample opportunity to provide for rapid transit such as the GLUAS etc, and without the disruption.

    Now, about the planners/councillors in charge of the recent development around the city - heads should roll!!! :mad:

    Regards!

    I agree that the end game needs to be a complete bypass around the city. Facing the reality that any redesign work is going to set the project back two years minimum, the point I was making is that 3 grade separated junctions at Doughiska, Headford road, and Moycullen rd would disperse the traffic to the city better that a single at grade roundabout. It is not the importance of the Headford and Moycullen roads but the ability to disperse traffic around the city. Personally I think the biggest flaw in the route design was not that they ran it through field of bog cotton, but rather that they did not put a junction at the Tuam road.

    I don't know how councillors came up with the development plan for Galway. Most major industrial parks, shopping centres, facilities on the east side of the city and most residential development in the last 10 years on the west. and leave the whole thing to fall on it's face. You don't need 20/20 to see the flaw in that design! At least with the bit that is approved there would be a third river crossing.


  • #20
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    This is one project that needs to be done (almost) regardless to the environmental issues. Given where Galway is, its almost impossible to build a road around it without problems like this. Its an absolute disaster that this isnt going to be built in full. And I hope NOTHING gets built rather than a half arsed version. The bottlenecks that are there at the moment (Tuam Rd roundabout, Headford Rd roundabout, Bishop O Donnell Road) will all get much worse than they are already.

    I realise there were a lot of issues with this, but think of it this way. The Western Distributor Extension was dumped on the grounds that it would pass through Tournabrocky Bog. If Mr Developer had wanted to build more Knocknacarra sprawl in the same place, would they have been allowed to? Bet they would.


  • #21
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    From today's Irish Times: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1218/1229523050552.html


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  • #22
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    I would like to see them build the section that has been approved....ASAP.

    It would disperse traffic entering the City better. By that I mean it would offer the option of avoiding the aweful planned at-grade roundabout in Doughiska if you're coming into Galway on the M6. And it would give an alternative/additional route over the Corrib.

    I think if they start building the section that has been approved then they will be more likely to put the effort into finding an alternative Western section. If they aren't arsed building the section that has been approved then they have no notion of looking into the other section.

    Am I right in saying the M50 was done similarly - in sections because of planning problems? Better to get it started than leaving it IMO.


  • #23
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    The only problem with that approach is it means huge traffic queues at the junction with the unfinished parts, like you saw in Dundalk at the end of the M1.


  • #24
    KevR
    Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    dowlingm wrote: »
    The only problem with that approach is it means huge traffic queues at the junction with the unfinished parts, like you saw in Dundalk at the end of the M1.

    True, there would be queues at the last finished junction on the bypass but I don't think these would be anywhere near as bad as the queues that we'll have at the end of the M6 from Dublin if the bypass doesn't get built. Also, it can't be as bad as the horrific delays on the current N6 across the City. I think that the approved section bypass alone would reduce these delays a lot (a complete bypass would eliminate delays).


  • #25
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    We are only going back to 2005 so !

    From the EIS statement on the Bypass.

    "Galway County Council confirmed in February 2005 that N6 GCOB East and the R336
    Western Approach Link (usually referred to at this time as N6 GCOB West) were to
    become one scheme    "

    The stretch south and west of the N59 was a separate scheme until 2005 and was , strictly speaking, a Regional Road not a National Road at all .

    Both Moycullen and Barna have about 15,000 car movements a day on their east sides but the Knocknacarra traffic then joins the Barna traffic ( mainly) which adds to that Barna traffic.


  • #26
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    I dread to imagine the chaos at the UCHG roundabout and Bishop O Donnell road if this half assed scheme goes ahead. Bishop O Donnel road is about 40k per day or something stupid like that for an urban, at grade, S2.


  • #27
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It's going to D2 next year Chris in fairness !


  • #28
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Has that been confirmed? I havent heard anything at all about it.


  • #29
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Well the bulk of the funding is due in 2009 and the bulk of that funding is in the form of a grant to put in bus lanes so the D2 will be actually C2+B2 if you see what I mean .

    The Newcastle Road in Lucan was done the same way this year.


  • #30
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    The original "Bypass" was built in sections, I don't see why the outer bypass can't be done likewise. I know it isn't idea. However given the growth of traffic on the current road it's going to be a disaster in 2years when the M6 ends in another fscking roundabout at Doughuisce.

    I use to work up beside HP 2years ago and use to take me 40minutes to get from there to Salthill in the evening my auld lad who works in Lisbaun reckons it takes an hour these days to get home in the evening.


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  • #31
    Chris_533976
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Well the bulk of the funding is due in 2009 and the bulk of that funding is in the form of a grant to put in bus lanes so the D2 will be actually C2+B2 if you see what I mean .

    The Newcastle Road in Lucan was done the same way this year.

    Yeah originally it was supposed to be D2AP with roundabouts. Its gotten scaled back to S2 with Buslanes in a sense, with some of the roundabouts scrapped in favour of traffic lights.

    Translation: No realistic increase in capacity. Stunning lack of planning given how much of an arterial route that road is.


This discussion has been closed.
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