Fox jointer

ennisa · 26-11-2008 4:20pm #1

Hello all,
I am in the market for a low end jointer and I see in my local shop they have a fox F22564 like the one here - http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/F22564

Has anybody used one of these? Or can anyone give any insight into ones that are like it? Specifically how does the thicknessing work, I don't see how the boards would go through the thicknessing opening without me having to push it all the way through by hand!! Which I'm sure I won't be able to do the second time as I won't be able to push much with a bloody stump!!!

It's 250 euro which is the max i can afford to spend and believe me I do know that I would need to be adding another 400 onto that before I would get something that would even start to be good but I have to start somewhere and my arm is getting sore from hand flattening 9 inch wide 8 foot oak boards with my #8 plane!!

Thanks in advance for any help.

Alan
Ireland/Dublin.

SpitfireIV · 26-11-2008 4:55pm

Had my eye on that very planer/thicknesser myself Ennisa, so I'll be watching this thread closely. When you say €250, does that include postage to Ireland also? She's a big enough machine it seems! Have you read the reviews on the Rutlands site for that planer? They all seem pretty good, apart from a few issues with the fence.

ennisa · 26-11-2008 5:12pm

Croppyboy,
I saw the planer in a local shop so It doesn't need to be shipped i just need to go pick it up, i just put up the link to show people which planar I was talking about.

Thanks for the replyl, I'll check out the reviews though, didn't see them before.

Alan
Ireland/Dublin

Carlow52 · 29-11-2008 7:13pm

This is from the weblink above, with my bolding of the word drawn:
<<This compact and yet powerful planer thicknesser has been designed for woodworkers with limited space and for joiners & carpenters who move from site to site. Powered by a 1250 Watt high torque motor it has a surface planing width of 204mm and a maximum thicknessing capacity of 210mm in height by 204mm in width. The twin blade cutter block rotates at 8000rpm and is precision machined and balanced to allow for virtual vibration free planing. It is equally at home planing both hard and soft woods. The thicknessing table is raised and lowered using the conveniently positioned hand wheel and timber is drawn through the cutters via powerful feed rollers. >>

From a safety perspective, most work on the push principle, so as the anti kick teeth and the rollers are both engaged before the material meets the blades.

Might be worthe checking, and never stand behind it;)

ennisa · 30-11-2008 2:03pm

Carlow52,
Thanks for that I didn't see that in any of the other info that I found on line and I haven't had a chance to get back to the shop to check it out. Looks like that might be the answer I was looking for, guess it pays off to do better research

Take care and thanks for the help.

Alan
Ireland/Dublin

SpitfireIV · 04-12-2008 9:32pm

ennisa wrote: »

It's 250 euro which is the max i can afford to spend.........

Hi Alan,

I was in contact with Rutlands about shipping costs for the planer/thicknesser which you gave the link to. I was quoted £27+15% vat, that comes to €36 or there abouts, which means that the planer shipped to me would cost €232

. Hey, you might save yourself €18, treat yourself to something small with that

Now, have to root under the matress for me money......

ennisa · 05-12-2008 2:45pm

!!!! I can't believe that is actually cheaper to get something like this shipped! I can only imagine how much it would cost to turn around and post it back!! not €36 that's for sure. It's the same when i order tools from http://www.dick.biz in germany. It's €15 to ship almost anything I can afford to order in one go but would prolly cost €60 to ship it back.

Anyway rant over.
Croppyboy, I still think that I will buy it here. If it was €40 or €50 in the difference maybe but I do like the option of putting it back in the box and driving back to the shop if something goes wrong with it.

If you are going to order it I would recommend ordering a second set of knives with it so that when one set is off getting sharpened you can use the other. I am presuming that it does not come with more than one set in the box.

I'll be getting mine on the 16th of December ( payday baby yeah!!) so of course they will be out of stock then

I'll let you know how I get on with it, if you end up getting one first then let me know what you think

Take care and thanks for the info CroppyBoy.

---
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

aerosol · 06-12-2008 1:27pm

I too am looking for a planer/thicknesser and after seeing this thread went to look at the fox one.

I wasn't impressed at all,I know its a budget model n all but.... the whole feel of it was carp,the fence is terrible,I wouldn't trust it to hold my toast still while buttering:rolleyes:

I'm going to have a look at this one http://www.sipuk.co.uk/acatalog/info_SIP01497.html
I have a bobbin sander by same company which is a fine tool.

SpitfireIV · 06-12-2008 4:02pm

aerosol wrote: »

I too am looking for a planer/thicknesser and after seeing this thread went to look at the fox one.

I wasn't impressed at all,I know its a budget model n all but.... the whole feel of it was carp,the fence is terrible,I wouldn't trust it to hold my toast still while buttering:rolleyes:

I'm going to have a look at this one http://www.sipuk.co.uk/acatalog/info_SIP01497.html
I have a bobbin sander by same company which is a fine tool.

Hi aerosol,

Just wondering, have you personal experience with the Fox planer/thicknesser? The reviews on the Rutlands site were great, compared to some of the higher priced planers which didnt always get great reviews.

Let us know how you get on with it anyway

aerosol · 07-12-2008 12:46pm

Hi croppyboy,no experience of using the machine no. I only went to look at it,poke it,fiddle with the handles,set the fence,all bits I would be doing if using it just with out the sharp bits turning!:D

SpitfireIV · 07-12-2008 1:37pm

aerosol wrote: »

Hi croppyboy,no experience of using the machine no. I only went to look at it,poke it,fiddle with the handles,set the fence,all bits I would be doing if using it just with out the sharp bits turning!:D

Hmm, you have me reconsidering my potential purchase now! :P. That SIP one certainly looks more robust alright! I'll have to do a little more research.

ennisa, what was your impression of the Fox P/T when you seen it in person? All I've seen are the glamour shots :cool:

ennisa · 10-12-2008 11:15am

Hi Guys,
Aerosol thanks for your post. I went back to the shop last week and did have a poke around at the unit. I flipped it from jointer to thicknesser mode and adjusted the fence etc.. and I am still pretty happy to go with it. I will actually be in the shop again in about an hours time

It does have the advantage of the extra 2" capacity. And I would have to say for me that it is an important consideration.
I thought that the fence did lock good and solid and the infeed and out feed tables were much more solid and chunky than I thought.

I will be getting mine next tuesday and as soon as I run some boards through it, which will be that evening I will post my thoughts on it. One of the reviews on the rutlands site did mention that the fence was a bit flimsy ( as aersol says ) so I will pay close attntion to that.

B&Q did have a similar unit I believe if you are looking for more comparison.

At this price point I suppose there is always going to be compromises. For me the flatness of the beds and the width capacity are most important. I could probably replace the fence with something shopmade If I really have to but I can't make the planar bigger or the beds flatter

Thanks for your posts and I will do a review once I get my hands on it.

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

Carlow52 · 10-12-2008 11:44am

ennisa wrote: »

Hi Guys,
Aerosol thanks for your post. I went back to the shop last week and did have a poke around at the unit. I flipped it from jointer to thicknesser mode and adjusted the fence etc.. and I am still pretty happy to go with it. I will actually be in the shop again in about an hours time It does have the advantage of the extra 2" capacity. And I would have to say for me that it is an important consideration.
I thought that the fence did lock good and solid and the infeed and out feed tables were much more solid and chunky than I thought.

I will be getting mine next tuesday and as soon as I run some boards through it, which will be that evening I will post my thoughts on it. One of the reviews on the rutlands site did mention that the fence was a bit flimsy ( as aersol says ) so I will pay close attntion to that.

B&Q did have a similar unit I believe if you are looking for more comparison.

At this price point I suppose there is always going to be compromises. For me the flatness of the beds and the width capacity are most important. I could probably replace the fence with something shopmade If I really have to but I can't make the planar bigger or the beds flatter

Thanks for your posts and I will do a review once I get my hands on it.

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

Good luck with purchase:
a few points:

dont try take off to much when thicknessing: do a second or 3rd run
get a roller for taking weight of long pieces once they are gone through:
dont overload tables with heavy pieces, support them front and back
keep tables free of resin and other sticky stuff
get a set of ear muffs, especially for hardwood boards
make sure fence is well fixed width-wise if planing

ennisa · 10-12-2008 12:55pm

Hello,
I was back at the shop at lunch time and had a look again, I'm still pretty happy with it. I will admit though that there was some movement in the fence. However it felt like it could be eliminated by making sure everything was good and tight, the display model was put together by the shop staff so I would say they didn't torque everything up good and tight. I do remember that one of the reviews on rutlands did mention that the fence had to be set really tight.
Anyway, I will keep you up to date. Thanks for the tips Carlow

I have an adjustable outfeed that I use for the table saw that will be interchangable with this and I have a good set of ear defenders.

Aerosol, do you know if there is somewhere in dublin (if that is where you are based) that has that SIP unit in stock? I wouldn't mind having a look at it.

Take care.

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

Carlow52 · 10-12-2008 2:18pm

ennisa wrote: »

Hello,
I was back at the shop at lunch time and had a look again, I'm still pretty happy with it. I will admit though that there was some movement in the fence. However it felt like it could be eliminated by making sure everything was good and tight, the display model was put together by the shop staff so I would say they didn't torque everything up good and tight. I do remember that one of the reviews on rutlands did mention that the fence had to be set really tight.
Anyway, I will keep you up to date. Thanks for the tips Carlow I have an adjustable outfeed that I use for the table saw that will be interchangable with this and I have a good set of ear defenders.

Aerosol, do you know if there is somewhere in dublin (if that is where you are based) that has that SIP unit in stock? I wouldn't mind having a look at it.

Take care.

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

My issue with the fence is that on my current one, if say planing a 2" board on the 10" wide table, u set the fence so as only say 2.25" of cutters show and the rest is covered by the fence extension bar. this bar sometimes moves back while planing, exposing more of the cutter block than is healthy:)

ennisa · 10-12-2008 2:44pm

Hi Carlow,
I've never used any other type of jointer so I'm not 100% sure what you mean. I presume you mean that the fence extends across the bed(s) so that you are running the edge of the piece across the cutters close to side of the jointer you are standing on. With this unit the fence only pivots on a bracket that is fixed to the far side of the jointer. You cannot move the fence laterally across the beds. The guard slides back and forth over the blade covering any area of the blades that do not need to be exposed to plane the edge and is locked in place with a lock nut thumb screw thingy, I was doing well there but my words have deserted me.

You can see the guard in the pic on rutlands, it's at the end of the arm with the yellow knob on the bottom. Also, I have to say that the fence on the model I was looking at seems a bit more beefy than the one in that picture, not by miles, but the one in the pic seems a bit weedy in comparison to the one that I have seen in person.

When changing to thicknessing mode the fence pivots out of the way ( after loosening the lock nuts, that was the word I was looking for before) and the extraction port goes on top.

Is that any help Carlow?

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

SpitfireIV · 10-12-2008 3:32pm

ennisa wrote: »

Also, I have to say that the fence on the model I was looking at seems a bit more beefy than the one in that picture, not by miles, but the one in the pic seems a bit weedy in comparison to the one that I have seen in person

I read one review on Rutlands where a user of this P/T said he fixed a piece of polished ply to the fence to strenghten it. There is holes or slots in the attached guard to fix a piece of wood or metal to to strenghten the guard, right? I know you'd lose half an inch or so maybe but it'd be worth it to get a stronger, smoother fence.

ennisa · 10-12-2008 4:48pm

Croppyboy,
There was no holes etc.. in the fence but I have a feeling that the fence can come off, or has a cover that can come off and you could probably screw/counter sink some 3/4 inch MDF (or aluminium if you had it ) to make a more robust fence. Double sided sticky tape may also come into play. I realise that may not be something that is appealing with a brand new tool but if I had 800 euro to buy a scepach then I wouldn't be having this discussion

Take care.

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

aerosol · 11-12-2008 4:52pm

Hi ennisa,
Mc quillans were due to get the 6" planer in stock this week,guy I talked to didn't know( is it just me or is that a normal occurance in this shop;)) if the planer/thicknesser were coming too.

My motorhome needs a good run in the coming weeks so I was hoping to go north for one, anyone know of a good tool stockist ideally this side of Belfast?

ennisa · 12-12-2008 5:46pm

Aerosol, I do like McQuillans but I have run into the problem you talk about, the guy that runs the place is the best to talk to as he usually knows everything about everything but it doesn't always seem to filter down to the staff. He tends to be out on the tills though a lot of the time and not on the phone.

My plans for getting the jointer have changed a little bit, I will now be waiting until the after xmas for the sales, makes no sense to pay more when it may be cheaper a week later, also I will be getting some vouchers for the shop as christmas presents, so again it makes no sense to pay for it all out of my own pocket

I just have to keep my nerve and wait, I hate waiting.

Let us know if you find any good stockists just over the border, an hours drive to save a decent chunk of money is well worth the effort it in my opinion.

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

SpitfireIV · 26-12-2008 10:57pm

I got me a Fox J/T

Nice piece of kit, pretty easy to use (once i figured out that the dust extractor thingy has to be fitted before the machine will work....d'oh

). I had read a few reviews on Rutlands that the fence was not that great, but Fox must have addressed this issue and fitted a more substantial one, a rigid aluminium extrusion. Unfortunately in order to convert the machine to thicknessing mode the fence has to be removed completely (requiring two hex bolts to be removed :rolleyes:) so that the dust/chipping extractor can be fitted.

She's a pretty hefty piece of kit too, weighs a lot more than I thought it would! Which isnt a bad thing of course as it stays put once you're plaining and doesnt move. Also, there doesnt seem to be any way of fixing it to a table/bench unless you remove the four solid rubber feet perhaps.

When in thicknessing mode the windage hande for the thicknessing table seems to creep a bit when plaining (creeps anti-clockwise, lowering the table). Its not so bad I guess when doing short pieces as you can just keep your hand on it, but for longer lenghts it might be a problem.

The intake roller for the thicknesser is a long metal rod with ridges cut into it and takes the timber nicely.

All in all a nice little machine, I ran a bit of oak, walnut, pine and maple through it and they came out nicely. I'm gonna get myself a few castors soon and make up a moveable bench for it so that I can push it out of the way when not in use, I was just gonna store it under another bench and throw it up on the workbench when needed, but she's a tad too heavy for all that lugging!

ennisa · 27-12-2008 3:51pm

croppyboy,
I got mine this morning, it's still sitting in the car in the box, i will be unpacking it today and I'm looking forward to it. We can compare shop notes

Hope you had a good Christmas and have a good new year.

SpitfireIV · 27-12-2008 7:55pm

I bet you're in the shed playing with it as I type this!

Just been playing around with mine for the past hour or so, passing a few different hardwoods through it (I knew I kept them for a reason!

). Does quite a job on them, that handle moving is bothering me though :rolleyes:

ennisa · 06-01-2009 4:50pm

croppyboy,
Finally got it unpacked, i was finishing off a desk for a friend and it was taking up a chunk of space so I wanted to finish that first and unbox the planar in a tidy shop, picky I know but I like to start things like that when it is clean so I'm not tripping over things

I have to say if I had been using a planar all along and never had to plane things by hand then I would probably not be quite so happy about this unit in comparison to some of the higher end (and even medium end ) machines that are available. But I'm sure that anyone who has milled and surface ( not just smoothed or finish planed ) a decent amount of hardwood, and I havent't even done that much, will agree that a planer/thicknesser is like some kind of magic or alien technology! Simply passing the board over the cutters a couple of times and then flipping it up to do the edge and then through the thicknesser and your done, it's some kind of sorcery! They must have been wetting themselves with excitment when these were invented.

All that being said there are some some compromises with this low end machine.

My fence has a slight cup in it ( is your like that too croppyboy? ) If I put a square on the one of the tables and check the fence for 90 degrees I can see a cup in the fence, I can compensate easily and it is still quicker than doing it by hand. I might end trying to fix it or maybe get it replace, maybe even make my own to replace the aluminum one. I see what you mean about having to remove the fence to use the thicnesser, it is annoying, I don't remember having to do that in the shop when i was looking at the machine they had set up, I have a feeling that they had the fence either screwed into the wrong screw hole or else they had slid the fence down the bracket that is, (it can be moved on T Tracks) so that it was further over the infeed table and thus out of the way of the sides off the chip chute.
It's noisy, not so dusty but noisy.
The chip chute tends to fill up rather than blowing out all the chips, it does say in the manual though that you need a vacum to keep it clear.
As the thicknesser is under the tables it can be hard to see what you are doing without stooping to see under the table.
The handle for the thicknesser setting does wobbly around but I think that is just a sloppy fit on the adjuster and that the table itself is not moving, I will check this later to be sure, it would take an enormous amount of force to move the table on the screws without turning the handle. It's a simply worm gear and they are very difficult to move in the reverse direction, in fact I would imagine that the screws or mechanism would be damaged extensively if it did manage to move in the reverse direction.

I tested it on a piece of 2x1 pine and on some red oak and the finsh from the blades was fantastic, i realise some of this is due to blades being brand new but on the pine the surface was actually shiny when it came out off the blades 8000 rpm is your friend

In the end I only paid 50 euro for mine as i got 200 euro in vouchers for family members for Christmas so I am very pleased. I did have a piece left over after i unpacked it all. It is two metal bars attached together with a small round steel bar, not sure what it is for and I don't see anything in the exploded diagram so I am not sure what that is. The manual is very basic but I do like that it gives a full exploded diagram with all the part numbers in case anything needs to be replaced.

Overall I am very happy with this. Guess I need to make a stand for it to go on, it's clamped to my workmate at the moment. I'll be using it quite a lot and I would imagine that most projects I will be building will have stock that will pass through this machine at some point or other. We will see if I am still as pleased with it in a couple of months after I have put a decent amount of hours on it.

aerosol did you ever get to have a look at that SIP model you were talking about?

Take care and thanks to everybody for their help and input.

--
Alan
Ireland/Dublin

aerosol · 07-01-2009 5:01pm

Thanks for the write ups croppy n ennisa.Please post how you get on with them,and how you get on with the fence.

I've not had a chance to find n go look at the Sip one yet Ennisa.

SpitfireIV · 07-01-2009 5:40pm

Seems Fox has released another low-ish price planer, like the model discussed here, but a 10"x5" instead of 8x8, tis on special offer in Rutlands:

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/cgi-bin/psProdDet.cgi/F22564250

Certainly looks a little funkier!

Glad to hear you are getting on ok with yours Ennisa. I think you may be right about the thicknessing table adjusting handle, it seems to be just the handle itself that is moving, not the table. Also given the fact that the handle isnt secured, but simply acts as a key it can be taken out if the movement bothers you, maybe hook it up to the machine with a piece of cord so it wont get lost.

The fence on mine is 'ok', its not cupped or anything, but I find it hard to get it dead on 90 degrees, takes a lot of fiddling with to adjust it and even then its a fraction out. But in saying that I havent really sat down and given it a good going over, I've just being enjoying passing bits of timber through it!

Fox jointer

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