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buy irish..employ irish

13567…18

Comments

  • #62
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    O'Morris wrote: »
    The fact that there are at least 15,000 Eastern Europeans on the dole would seem to show that many immigrants are deciding to stick around and draw the dole.

    but i thought all those on the Dole were Irish workers who couldn;t get a job because all the immigrants took their jobs?

    I'm getting confused.

    Do you have a source for this by the way?


  • #63
    ntlbell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    whitser wrote: »
    plenty of good irish trades men now on the dole. i would say most of the workers actually on site now are migrant workers. now they are not all better workers then the irish, so why is that?
    because employers,especially builders can take advantage of migrant workers.
    thats why i asked shouldnt the government say look we need to look after our own,who are here to stay,not workers who will be off as soon as they get work else where.

    It's a European market, Europeans are our "own"


  • #64
    EamonnKeane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 950 ✭✭✭EamonnKeane


    whitser wrote: »
    thats another thing that pxsses me off. if you dare to question anything to do with immigration your fobbed off as a nazi.

    A Nazi with poor spelling at that.


  • #65
    blah
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 941 ✭✭✭blah


    I live and work in England. Should English people be shown preference over me when I'm looking for a job? Should I be forced to go back home to Ireland?


  • #66
    ebmma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭ebmma


    Hmm. I have to tick "non-EU" box when applying for jobs, however I have pretty much no contact with my country of origin, happily married to an Irish man and Ireland is my home. I was educated here and only worked here and nowhere else.

    so I shouldn't be employed because I'm not strictly speaking Irish?
    Isn't that kind of unfair? :rolleyes:

    I wonder how do "jobs for Irish only" people are going to deal with "grey area" cases like mine?

    I'm sure my situation isn't unique either.


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  • #67
    ntlbell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    ebmma wrote: »
    Hmm. I have to tick "non-EU" box when applying for jobs, however I have pretty much no contact with my country of origin, happily married to an Irish man and Ireland is my home. I was educated here and only worked here and nowhere else.

    so I shouldn't be employed because I'm not strictly speaking Irish?
    Isn't that kind of unfair? :rolleyes:

    I wonder how do "jobs for Irish only" people are going to deal with "grey area" cases like mine?

    I'm sure my situation isn't unique either.

    If you're more qualified and could do the job better, you should be employed regardless of who you're married to or not as the case maybe.

    will all employers think like this? no

    should they? in a perfect world.

    you'll notice, we don't live in one.


  • #68
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    NOGMaxpower wrote:
    I can understand your point though retaining jobs for Irish people first is a nice ideal to have. But in practice it would never work as it would create a sepratist workforce. Who's to say Jimmy from cork should get a job over Akmed when Akmed is clearly more qualified for the job. NOT GOING HAPPEN AND SHOULDN'T HAPPEN IMO.

    If people are in this country legally then they shouldn't be discriminated against when they go looking for a job. What I have a problem with is the decision to allow so many people into our country in the first place. To say that the reason we have so many people here is because we're in the EU is not accurate as we had a choice at the time to restrict access to people from the new accession countries.

    Our economy does not any longer have a need for immigration on the scale that we've seen over the last few years. It's time for us to impose tougher restrictions on legal immigration into the country.

    Fratton Fred wrote:
    but i thought all those on the Dole were Irish workers who couldn;t get a job because all the immigrants took their jobs?

    No, there are plenty of Doles on the pole as well. They're probably having a hard time as well because as well as having to compete with the lazy Irish they'll also have to compete with their fellow countrymen who are still entering the country. I think we should we be looking after our own Poles first instead of the ones just arrived off the boat.

    Fratton Fred wrote:
    Do you have a source for this by the way

    This article:
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article4323312.ece


  • #69
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #70
    ebmma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭ebmma


    ntlbell wrote: »
    If you're more qualified and could do the job better, you should be employed regardless of who you're married to or not as the case maybe.

    will all employers think like this? no

    should they? in a perfect world.

    you'll notice, we don't live in one.

    It was mostly a rhetorical question :)

    What I meant to emphasise was that if "jobs for irish only" did actually happen, it would be hard to regulate as there would always be a fraction of people who would think they are "more irish" than everyone else.

    Should an Irish guy whose family lived in Dublin for 20 generations be employed before Indian guy with a freshly got Irish citizenship?
    They are both strictly speaking Irish.

    But would 'jobs for Irish' crowd necessarily treat them the same? I don't think so.


  • #71
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    gandalf wrote: »
    I'm sorry but you are the one saying Migrant workers are working 7 days a week 16 hours a day. If this is true then you need to report it. If you don't then it is your fault and the fault of others in your situation that nothing happens because of it.

    Any sites that are still going around me have Irish workers on them so it is a blatant untruth that EVERY site has only migrant workers on it.
    did i say every site has only migrant workers on them? no. i also didnt say workers are working 7 days a week. i said bosses want lads who are available to work any hours the boss wants.


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  • #72
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #73
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    ebmma wrote: »
    It was mostly a rhetorical question :)

    What I meant to emphasise was that if "jobs for irish only" did actually happen, it would be hard to regulate as there would always be a fraction of people who would think they are "more irish" than everyone else.

    Should an Irish guy whose family lived in Dublin for 20 generations be employed before Indian guy with a freshly got Irish citizenship?
    They are both strictly speaking Irish.

    But would 'jobs for Irish' crowd necessarily treat them the same? I don't think so.
    when i say irish i dont mean you have to be a red haired gael. but people living here who are here to stay,whos familys are here should be given preference to economic migrant workers who are only here in the short term. probably be impossilbe to do and will never happen. but its hard to get by on the dole and its harder to see workers from russia etc..still working away no bother.


  • #74
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    ebmma wrote: »
    Hmm. I have to tick "non-EU" box when applying for jobs, however I have pretty much no contact with my country of origin, happily married to an Irish man and Ireland is my home. I was educated here and only worked here and nowhere else.

    so I shouldn't be employed because I'm not strictly speaking Irish?
    Isn't that kind of unfair? :rolleyes:

    I wonder how do "jobs for Irish only" people are going to deal with "grey area" cases like mine?

    I'm sure my situation isn't unique either.
    same as above


  • #75
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Good article here.

    http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12676787


  • #76
    R3al
    Closed Accounts Posts: 303 ✭✭R3al


    micmclo wrote: »

    I've worked in a small hotel of 19 staff.
    Only 3 of us were Irish. And when you have guests commenting on it, you know you have a problem.

    I stayed in a hotel recently where there appeared to be very few Irish staff and the service was excellent, so it would depend on whether or not the comments were negative


  • #77
    ebmma
    Closed Accounts Posts: 631 ✭✭✭ebmma


    whitser wrote: »
    when i say irish i dont mean you have to be a red haired gael. but people living here who are here to stay,whos familys are here should be given preference to economic migrant workers who are only here in the short term. probably be impossilbe to do

    That's what I mean.


  • #78
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #79
    ntlbell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,287 ✭✭✭✭ntlbell


    ebmma wrote: »
    It was mostly a rhetorical question :)

    What I meant to emphasise was that if "jobs for irish only" did actually happen, it would be hard to regulate as there would always be a fraction of people who would think they are "more irish" than everyone else.

    Should an Irish guy whose family lived in Dublin for 20 generations be employed before Indian guy with a freshly got Irish citizenship?
    They are both strictly speaking Irish.

    But would 'jobs for Irish' crowd necessarily treat them the same? I don't think so.

    Of course it's something that can't be regulated and I really don't think we'll ever need to worry about an "irish only" siutation.

    but some employers will employ irish.

    some will employ who will do it the cheapest etc

    it's not something that will ever be regulated as you say it's pretty much impossible to do so and do fairly


  • #80
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    one of my aunties is slovakian. jumped the iron curtain in the 70's. im not a racist. your example would "qualify" as people who were here to stay and i wouldnt call them economic migrants. and i never said send anyone home, what i said was give any available jobs to irish people, bit of a difference.


  • #81
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,308 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    whitser wrote: »
    thats another thing that pxsses me off. if you dare to question anything to do with immigration your fobbed off as a nazi.
    Also the reason why we thepeople don't talk about immigration in open politics, for fear of being labeled a nazi/racist. Bullied by the minority, to save face to the majority?


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  • #82
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    tbh there would be too many grey areas who would be deemed irish or not. but this xmass time there's going to be a massacre of construction jobs. and if men feel that they are loosing out to migrant workers who are less hassle for builders to employ because they'll work every hour and for less then the rate then why shouldnt they feel cheated. if a migrant worker looses his job he's off to london or dubai or back home no bother. but if an irish man who's family and mortgage is here its a different scenario altogether.


  • #83
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    donegalfella wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I think it can naturally self-correct in the absence of a generous social welfare system and in the absence of an open border with a part of the world where the average wage is much lower than our own.


  • #84
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    whitser wrote: »
    tbh there would be too many grey areas who would be deemed irish or not. but this xmass time there's going to be a massacre of construction jobs. and if men feel that they are loosing out to migrant workers who are less hassle for builders to employ because they'll work every hour and for less then the rate then why shouldnt they feel cheated. if a migrant worker looses his job he's off to london or dubai or back home no bother. but if an irish man who's family and mortgage is here its a different scenario altogether.

    which is where parties like the BNP get their support. You will also find someone who is on a waiting list for an operation claiming that if it wasn't for foreigners having babies here, they would have had their operation by now.

    I appreciate there is a huge difference between being racist and discussion immigration, but there are a lot that will bridge the gap, it only takes a bit of right wing stirring and those that are easily lead will start demanding action against the immigrants.


  • #85
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    which is where parties like the BNP get their support.

    Exactly. And is that not one of the best arguments for restricting immigration?


  • #86
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    which is where parties like the BNP get their support. You will also find someone who is on a waiting list for an operation claiming that if it wasn't for foreigners having babies here, they would have had their operation by now.

    I appreciate there is a huge difference between being racist and discussion immigration, but there are a lot that will bridge the gap, it only takes a bit of right wing stirring and those that are easily lead will start demanding action against the immigrants.
    believe me im no supporter of the likes of the bnp. and i never came on here saying send immigrants home etc...
    but if asking should employers give irish people a job before an economic migrant,especially in these hard times, makes me a rightwing racist bigot then it doesnt take much to fall into that catagorie.


  • #87
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    which is where parties like the BNP get their support. You will also find someone who is on a waiting list for an operation claiming that if it wasn't for foreigners having babies here, they would have had their operation by now.

    I appreciate there is a huge difference between being racist and discussion immigration, but there are a lot that will bridge the gap, it only takes a bit of right wing stirring and those that are easily lead will start demanding action against the immigrants.
    nothing will swell the ranks of anti immigration right wing parties then irish men and women on the dole while migrant workers are still getting work.


  • #88
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    O'Morris wrote: »
    Exactly. And is that not one of the best arguments for restricting immigration?

    err, no. the BNP or the like are never a good arguement for anything. That's like saying if the Jews didn't go to europe, there wouldn't have been a holocaust. (OTT I know, but I thought I would envoke godwins law to get the point across.)
    whitser wrote: »
    believe me im no supporter of the likes of the bnp. and i never came on here saying send immigrants home etc...
    but if asking should employers give irish people a job before an economic migrant,especially in these hard times, makes me a rightwing racist bigot then it doesnt take much to fall into that catagorie.

    I wasn't suggesting you are, I was merely pointing out how easy it is for the right wing parties to play on sentiments and gain support.


  • #89
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,859 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    whitser wrote: »
    nothing will swell the ranks of anti immigration right wing parties then irish men and women on the dole while migrant workers are still getting work.
    I don't find the argument that we should discriminate against foreigners to protect them from resentment to be a particularly compelling one, myself.


  • #90
    gandalf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    whitser wrote: »
    basically bosses want men who can work every hour that they want. a migrant worker whos family is back home can work 16 hr days 7 days a week if he wants but a family man living here cant. also i think employers will take advantage of migrant workers easier then irish because they dont always know their rights etc...
    whitser wrote: »
    did i say every site has only migrant workers on them? no. i also didnt say workers are working 7 days a week. i said bosses want lads who are available to work any hours the boss wants.

    See the quote above you have clearly stated that they are working 7 days a week and 16 hour days.
    whitser wrote: »
    tbh there would be too many grey areas who would be deemed irish or not. but this xmass time there's going to be a massacre of construction jobs. and if men feel that they are loosing out to migrant workers who are less hassle for builders to employ because they'll work every hour and for less then the rate then why shouldnt they feel cheated. if a migrant worker looses his job he's off to london or dubai or back home no bother. but if an irish man who's family and mortgage is here its a different scenario altogether.

    Again you are clearly saying that they are working long hours and they are working for less than minimum wage. If that's the case you and others in your position have a duty to report these employers. If you don't bother then it is entirely your fault that this situation continues.

    Because you have a family or mortgage does not automatically guarantee you a job and it shouldn't.


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  • #91
    whitser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭whitser


    fred brought up support for the bnp not me. i simply said that where they'll find support on dole q's.
    im sure as an employer you'll hire whoever suits you best but its the likes if me who'll end up signing on. how can i compete with a polish worker here to work as many hours as possible for a rate that below the trade rate? that suits you alright.


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