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Head shops on Buyer beware now RTE1

135

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭TomCo


    Mordeth wrote: »
    jaywalking isn't a crime now?
    awesome

    Lets make an RTE program about it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    Was reading about the banning of psilocybin in the netherlands and some grower was complaining about his livelyhood disappearing.
    Yes, just like publicans moaned about the smoking ban. Imagine the uproar if they tried to ban alcohol.
    Turns out he grew something like 25 tonnes of mushrooms a year (no exaggeration, got it off a dutch news agency) but my point is that mushrooms are viewed as a psychadelic drug.
    You might view them like that, the fact is this guy is a legitimate business man growing a crop, just like any other farmer.
    Isnt it against the very ethics of the whole psychadelic culture for some wanker to be making collosal money per annum from the product.
    Anybody could have grown and sold them. How do you know how much he was making? If you think it is such a profitable business have you considered getting into legal mushroom farming yourself?

    I would feel more sorry for the shops who sell them, the grower is just growing mushrooms, he can easily change and grow other legal types now. The most popular grown was Psilocybe Cubensis, which is actually one of the easiest of all mushrooms to cultivate. I expect he was making just around the same profits as any other mushroom farm, after all, any other mushroom farm was in free competition with him.

    People will now turn to acid in holland which is a lot more dangerous IMO as doses are harder to estimate and the effects are longer. Also it will be harder to get for medicinal users of mushrooms, some growers do supply mushrooms free to medicinal users, e.g. cluster headache sufferers.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_headache#Non-established_and_research_approaches


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    I dunno about the acid in amsterdam.

    I cant imagine the auld charly boys walking around whispering LSD or acid.

    Can you?

    I doubt the paddo culture will die out. If you were very very familiar with Amsterdam and knew people there, im sure obtaining them would be little problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭ec18


    From Hotpress:


    A fortnight ago, on the very day Hot Press went to press with a report on the imminent demise of Spice and the enormous profitability of Ireland’s herbal high market, Drugs Squad officers were raiding head shops and seizing products. At lunchtime, anti-drugs crusader Grainne Kenny was telling Joe Duffy that she wanted to publicly congratulate the Gardai for carrying out the raids, while early media reports mentioned seizure of BZP pills and possible breaches of licensing laws.

    The raids had nothing to do with either of these things, nor were they related to the legally available smokeables, including Salvia extracts, none of which were seized by the Gardai. Instead, the targetted raids centred on some of the least popular products on the legal high market. These included pyschoactive cacti, such as San Pedro, and psychedelic seeds like Baby Woodrose, which contain LSA, a close chemical cousin of LSD.

    These products inhabit the same sort of legal grey area as did magic mushrooms before they were banned. Just as fresh magic mushrooms were legal to possess and sell prior to January 31st 2006, so San Pedro, Baby Woodrose et al are offered for sale in their raw state. These substances have never been the subject of legislation, and they are not illegal to possess, despite the fact that the active ingredient (mescaline and LSA respectively) is prohibited.

    It is therefore almost certain that these naturally occurring substances are entirely legal. This was the Department of Health’s interpretation of the law regarding psilocin containing mushrooms, so it’s hard to see how the DPP hopes to bring successful prosecutions given the precedent which has already been set by the legislators of the land. After all, if the government of the day didn’t consider magic mushrooms illegal, why did it issue a directive to prohibit them? And if magic mushrooms weren’t illegal then, San Pedro et al aren’t illegal now.

    The Gardai wouldn’t provide any details on the motive for the search or anything else for that matter. The Garda press office refused to comment beyond confirming to Hot Press that 22 premises were subject to searches.

    It wouldn’t even confirm what substances were seized or where the premises were located. They cited “operational reasons” for their reticence, though the same consideration for discretion didn’t prevent them from trumpeting the raids on RTE’s lunchtime news.

    Since the Gardai won’t answer questions, it’s impossible to definitely say what led them to believe that San Pedro and the rest were illegal.

    Nonetheless, it doesn’t take a detective to deduce that the source must have an obsessive interest in very obscure psychoactives, and that his/her motivation can only be a desire to see head shop owners prosecuted. Since hardly anybody uses these substances, and since the media and political establishment didn’t even know they existed prior to the raid, where did the impetus for this extensive operation come from?

    Step forward Grainne Kenny, whose EURAD (Europe Against Drugs) organisation has been waging a war on head shops for the past number of years. Though she is widely perceived as a crank, Kenny is as forensic as she is fierce, and her EURAD organisation has gone about its work with a relentless focus which has included political and media lobbying.

    Her chief media ally is Joe Duffy, who periodically turns his Liveline show over to Kenny; if she could be considered an impulsive attention addict, Uncle Joe plays the role of the well-meaning enabler who can’t bring himself to restrain her outlandish behaviour. The fact that Kenny was off the media mark within an hour of the raids suggests some degree of foreknowledge.

    Joe Duffy isn’t EURAD’s only influential friend; Liveline played host to two local councillors who expressed their opposition to the drug-peddling child-snatchers of the headshop industry (or ‘gougers’ as Kenny called them); morally upstanding Arklow town councillor Peter Dempsey added that he “wouldn’t have pornography of any type in this town either”. In an astonishingly vindictive exchange, Grainne Kenny taunted Nirvana’s co-owner Paddy Grant about having successfully used Cllr. Dempsey’s influence to force local businesses to refuse to rent premises to be used as Nirvana head shop outlets. EURAD aims to secure the support of more local councillors as part of their strategy to harness ‘anti-drug’ sentiment at a local level and direct it against the head shops by any means possible - including threatening boycotts, pickets and, inevitably, the sort of direct action which has characterised ‘anti-drug’ efforts in the past.

    Faced with the prospect of angry mobs, protests and petitions, some local business owners in Ireland’s more provincial parts are feeling uneasy about letting their properties to head shop chains. They may be entirely legal businesses, but that won’t stop EURAD from engaging in base NIMBYism. There’s a high probability of future court cases over the right to trade in certain parts of Ireland, and the burgeoning head shop industry is hardly short of the funds to fight local authorities who attempt to stand in the way of their legitimate dealings.

    Ultimately, when cases end up at the High Court, or are taken to the European level, there will be considerable expense involved. One such case is underway and is likely to cost the state upwards of €1 million. If the DPP insists on prosecuting for Woodrose seeds, the potential for legal damages and costs – across 22 cases – is enormous. But maybe it’s a cost that will be worth paying if it teaches the authorities the dire consequences of paying attention to EURAD.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    the tag says it all really


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    I threw that EURAD organisation an e-mail regarding their view on heapshops, and picked their brains a little. I wasnt exactly the most well written e-mail but I felt I had a few good points in there.

    Needless to say I heard nothing back from Eurad, which reinforced my view that its a shower of ignorant self righteous ***** who run the organisation.

    They fail to take into account one major reality - People are going into these headshops on their own accord.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,658 ✭✭✭Patricide


    Sheer stupidity altogether, headshops are nothing but good. Especially for young teenagers who are going to end up trying drugs anyway, might aswell get good clean industrally made pills etc. from a place that will tell you what not to do then off some dodgey scummy dealer.

    Does anyone know if this is on the internet anywhere yet, i assume not as its been just a few hours but if it does show up a link would be appreciated..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Try RTE.ie
    The thread is a few days old.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    I dunno about the acid in amsterdam.

    I cant imagine the auld charly boys walking around whispering LSD or acid.

    Can you?

    The cynic in me tells me they will just follow the money:p


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,486 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    Head shops sell dodgy 'medicinal' products in many cases to vulnerable individuals. They should be closed down.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Red Alert wrote: »
    Head shops sell dodgy products in many cases to vulnerable individuals. They should be closed down.

    The same could be said for off-licences or Tony Quinn shops. But let's not get into all that again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Thomas_S_Hunterson


    Red Alert wrote: »
    Head shops sell dodgy 'medicinal' products in many cases to vulnerable individuals. They should be closed down.

    Have you seen the self-help section of a bookshop? the tv ads for premium rate chat lines? the internet ads for questionable dating sites? the number of homeopaths around?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭Smudgeyboy


    Will all you people that think you need locking up and safe guarding from natural cactii and mushrooms please do so yourself?

    Seriously, find a cellar and a friend with a padlock.

    Expell all nature from the cellar and lock yourself in with a mobile phone. Happy now? Those nasty fungii and cactii cant get you now!

    Not only will you be safe from these dangers you've been told are there, but we can have our fun too!

    It's bad enough the people in society listened to the bull**** to make cannabis illegal, now they are going to let the few clean options we have for a similar experience be made illegal too.

    Wouldnt there be uproar if most pints had gel/glue/sand/glass in them? Well that's what's going on for the cannabis smokers in Ireland, so we have been left with spice/smoke.

    How many people are hospitalised every weekend from drink?
    That's right, the Government takes a very healthy slice of the pie when it comes to the dangerous drugs.

    When it comes to 'drugs' in nature (cannabis is harmless, as is psilocybin and LSA to an educated person) the government cannot have it!

    Ever wonder why it's only depressants and the main killers that are legal in society and the government practically sells?

    Legalise everything, educate everyone and see what happens to society.

    One things for certain, humans will not stop altering their conciousness.
    It's about finding out what's fun, beneficial and healthy. Stop being so scared everyone please!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭raindog.promo


    Smudgeyboy wrote: »
    One things for certain, humans will not stop altering their conciousness.

    If used with a bit of cop on and responsibility I think you'd see a re-emergance of a more spirit way of life inside of running around with $'s & €'s in your eyes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,073 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE MELLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭CCCP^


    Jaysus salivia! Maaaaad buzz....for 15 seconds.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 153 ✭✭Smudgeyboy


    If used with a bit of cop on and responsibility I think you'd see a re-emergance of a more spirit way of life inside of running around with $'s & €'s in your eyes

    To be honest, I think that's exactly what's happening, back to the civilised Druidic life that runs in our veins.
    Where we can all eat of the tree and the salmon of knowledge, back to enlightenment and anyone that doesnt like that has no choice, you are brain washed monkeys that wont be able to handle the drastic psychological changes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,387 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    I dunno about the acid in amsterdam.

    I cant imagine the auld charly boys walking around whispering LSD or acid.

    Can you?
    I was offered it several times. My point is now it is taken from the shops it will appear on the street. I was also offered weed on the street by them, if there was futher clampdowns on coffeeshops I expect this would increase too. More money selling coke though.
    Red Alert wrote: »
    Head shops sell dodgy 'medicinal' products in many cases to vulnerable individuals. They should be closed down.
    You cannot really define them, so cannot close them. Some stuff they sell can be got in woodies or supermarkets. Shut down all shops that sell rizla? legal plant seeds? never happen. All they can do is ban the substance, and there are way too many out there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭raindog.promo


    Smudgeyboy wrote: »
    To be honest, I think that's exactly what's happening, back to the civilised Druidic life that runs in our veins.
    Where we can all eat of the tree and the salmon of knowledge, back to enlightenment and anyone that doesnt like that has no choice, you are brain washed monkeys that wont be able to handle the drastic psychological changes.

    Arse. I'm not talking about running naked through the forests.

    What a groad beneral sweeping statement.


    high_horse.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    Have any of you ever unearthed the HSE's (or whoever) reports on psilocybin and its effects on the brain? Barring personal negligence, do they actually have any official reason to have banned the substance, or just getting an arm up Englands hole?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,514 ✭✭✭raindog.promo


    getting an arm up Englands hole?

    There's an unpleasant image.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    There's an unpleasant image.
    Seems about right though.

    amazing the focus only came on mushrooms after England outlawed their sale.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,658 ✭✭✭Patricide


    I agree, it works in holland. Proof to your argument.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    amazing the focus only came on mushrooms after England outlawed their sale.

    No the focus came on mushrooms after that death in Dun Laoghaire. I doubt it had anything to do with their legal status in England.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 381 ✭✭beautiation


    Smudgeyboy wrote: »
    Will all you people that think you need locking up and safe guarding from natural cactii and mushrooms please do so yourself?

    Seriously, find a cellar and a friend with a padlock.

    Expell all nature from the cellar and lock yourself in with a mobile phone. Happy now? Those nasty fungii and cactii cant get you now!

    Not only will you be safe from these dangers you've been told are there, but we can have our fun too!

    It's bad enough the people in society listened to the bull**** to make cannabis illegal, now they are going to let the few clean options we have for a similar experience be made illegal too.

    Wouldnt there be uproar if most pints had gel/glue/sand/glass in them? Well that's what's going on for the cannabis smokers in Ireland, so we have been left with spice/smoke.

    How many people are hospitalised every weekend from drink?
    That's right, the Government takes a very healthy slice of the pie when it comes to the dangerous drugs.

    When it comes to 'drugs' in nature (cannabis is harmless, as is psilocybin and LSA to an educated person) the government cannot have it!

    Ever wonder why it's only depressants and the main killers that are legal in society and the government practically sells?

    Legalise everything, educate everyone and see what happens to society.

    One things for certain, humans will not stop altering their conciousness.
    It's about finding out what's fun, beneficial and healthy. Stop being so scared everyone please!

    And to prove it, you post an epic to send everyone to sleep? :pac:

    Just messing, it's a good post, I completely agree. It's always the same with drugs, the main detractors are the uptight arses who never try them and base all their opinions on false anecdotes or twisted facts. They're so down on the concept of drugs for recreation that they completely underestimate the difference between the types. 99% of the stuff in head shops is completely harmless, in any circumstances. Unfortunately this is the kind of person who's most likely to become a politician and actually have some power. Wish they'd all feck off and have a mellow afternoon with some Purple Ohms, it'd change their tune quickly. Ah well, at least there'll still be the net even if they get to the head shops, and there's enough of a variety of good stuff out there now that they'll never be able to ban them all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    It's always the same with drugs, the main detractors are the uptight arses who never try them and base all their opinions on false anecdotes or twisted facts.

    If i took some drugs for everytime i heard a story about a 'friend' who went crazy from drugs from peeps who are anti's, i'd be in rehab.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,787 ✭✭✭g5fd6ow0hseima


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    No the focus came on mushrooms after that death in Dun Laoghaire. I doubt it had anything to do with their legal status in England.
    Ah that was a straw that broke the camels back to be honest.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭Quint


    Ah that was a straw that broke the camels back to be honest.
    As far as I can remember from that story, the guy had consumed a large amount of alcohol before he took the mushrooms. I think the head shop guys should give more advice.

    Anyway, I remember about a year ago some guy in cork was locked, killed a guard and then killed himself. High on alcohol! But of course not a mention of that getting banned!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,407 ✭✭✭Quint


    Quint wrote: »
    As far as I can remember from that story, the guy had consumed a large amount of alcohol before he took the mushrooms. I think the head shop guys should give more advice.

    Anyway, I remember about a year ago some guy in cork was locked, killed a guard and then killed himself. High on alcohol! But of course not a mention of that getting banned!

    Jasus, I posted that 5 minutes ago and can't even remember doing it. My head must be mush be from all those mushies and salvia I took over the years:pac:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Valmont


    It really frightens me the extent to which Ireland is becoming a nanny state. I took some baby woodrose seeds, had a very strange night at home in the safety of my sitting room and was fine two days later. I've had far more dangerous encounters trying to traverse the club scene in Dublin.

    To all you myopic fuddy duddies who reassure yourselves that all these products make people 'wasters' and put them into mental homes, you are literally morons. If the headshops close it's a grave breach of individual freedom and rights indeed.


This discussion has been closed.
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